A Doomed Purloiner posted:

When I first watched Evangelion I hadn't really seen much other anime, so the idea of that alternative universe being some parody of cliches went right over my head.

Sakurazuka posted:

I'm always amused by people who think EoE is the 'better' ending when all it does is sort explain the mechanics of Instrumentality and everything else is pretty much the same as the TV series.
I mean I prefer it because it has some absolutely gorgeous sequences, but the only fundamental difference is Shinji rejecting rather than embracing Instrumentality.

Srice posted:

The romantic comedy alternate universe is cracking me up this time around. I was amused by it the last time I saw the show but now I actually laughed.

Sakurazuka posted:

You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time.

Anyone who expects the 'mystery' to be solved is going to have a bad time because that's not the point.

Droyer posted:

I feel like he rejected it both times

Droyer posted:

I feel like he rejected it both times

Sakurazuka posted:

You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time.

Anyone who expects the 'mystery' to be solved is going to have a bad time because that's not the point.

Raxivace posted:

They directly tell you what it is in Episode 25.

Sakurazuka posted:

I've always figured Anno must be a big fan of The Prisoner, a British TV series from the 60's that's a character study disguised as a mystery and similarly ends on a surreal acid trip that explains virtually nothing.

Agronox posted:

They don't have to solve the mystery necessarily, but if you give it a name you should at least say what it is, and tell the viewer the rules...


But not quite how it works, no? It takes EoE to actually connect to what actually happened, right?

It's entirely possible I just missed it though.


Good catch. I can't find it online but there's a scene in that last episode, Fall Out, where Number 6 is inexplicably elected to lead a group of his faceless captors, who immediately start applauding him. And there are recurring questions about the loss of self, ego, and who a person actually is. It's another bonkers ending but it has such style and panache it works better than Eva 26 here.

(BTW, McGoohan admitted later that the finale came out of a lack of time plus writers block. Another parallel!)

Agronox posted:

But not quite how it works, no? It takes EoE to actually connect to what actually happened, right?

It's entirely possible I just missed it though.

quote:

Shinji: What feeling is this?
That is what I feel like I experienced before.
My body seems like dispearing.
Agreeable.
I feel like spreading, and becoming large,
to here, there and everywhere.
-
That was the very beginning
of the complimentation of the people
by the instrumentality of man.

-
Things people lost.
-
The lost minds.
-
Complimenting the vacuum in the mind.
-
The complimentation
by the instrumentality of minds and soul begins.
-
All things return to nothingness.
-
The complimentation
by the instrumentality of man
has just begun.
-
Gendou: No,
It's not that everything returns to nothingness.
It's nothing but returning everything to the begining.
Nothing but returning things to the mother which
has long since been lost.
All the minds become one mind, obtaining peace forever.
Nothing but that.
--
Misato: Is that the instrumentality of man project?

Ritsuko: Right.
We always have vacuum, something lost in our minds.

-
Those yeald the starvation within minds.
-
Those yeald anxiety and fear within minds.
-
Ritsuko: Everybody fears darkness within one's mind,
which one tries to escape from, tries to erase.
That's how people live.
But, nobody can ever escape from that.

Misato: So you unify the people's mind and
make them compliment each other?
On your accord?
You are poking your nose to other's business.
That's nothing but a cheap friendship.

Ritsuko: Yet, you are the one who's wished that.

Misato: Really?

lets hang out posted:

I don't think watching EoE really helps you understand how it all works any better than the last two episodes do

Command Ant posted:

a kitten posted:

a kitten posted:

a kitten posted:

Raxivace posted:

I always found it interesting that Kaworu was never here.

a kitten posted:

Hey do Gendo and Asuka ever directly interact the entire show? I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind.

A Doomed Purloiner posted:

I've always figured it was just emotional love, rather than anything sexual.

quote:

I watched Eva Episode 18. I really hate the Episode. Many fans felt
pain to watch the bl..dy battle scene between Black Eva in which Touji
is pilotting and Eva Unit 1 in which Shinji is.
VERY VERY Atrocious. VERY Cruel.

Someone posted an article protesting against the tooooooo bl..dy
scenes. He proposes that EVA should stop broadcasting. That's too
harmful for small children.

I don't want to translate the episode, and one of our translation team
also says "I dont want to watch the bl..dy scenes again and again to
write down the speech."

I know that the director Anno tried to describe the atrocity of the
war, and the coolness of the military people against bl..dy things in
the war. But there must be another way without just describing the
bl..dy scenes. It's easy to describe the atrocity of war and battle
with bl..dy scenes. But Artists must produce good scenes which truly
describe the atrocities.

If Eva is going more and more bl..dy and more and more cruel, chances
are that I will stop translation.

Kentaro ONIZUKA (Eva Translation Team)

quote:

Very true. My biggest criticism of NGEVA is the music at portions such as

when the evangelion is being launched

to the surface (the music is weak ... sorta like a space cadet force

and such). But what drew me to the story was Shinji's awakard-shyness

and being thrust into such a situation at a moments notice (at least

from eps 1 and 2). As veiwer of the story, we are thrown into a conflict

in seeming midcourse. Then when I bought the manga, Rei stare form the

inside cover page spoke to me in subtle ways, as if warning of regret.

On the next page Rei is agian staring but this time its a stare of

utter fear: a warning of something unspeakable to come.

Also on the back cover of the manga is NERV'S motto (mentioned elsewhere)

"God's in his heaven. All's right with the world." This is a striking

statement and metaphor evoking Nietzsche's view of humanity. This is what

draws me to the anime and manga story.

quote:

Ok, my two bits.

I had the very distinct pleasure of watching all of Neon Genesis
Evangelion from start to finish,
all 26+ episodes, in Japanese, with the original, and very funny
commericals, without
understanding a bloody word of it.

And I can say something very important, from my semi-enlightened
viewpoint(I say semi-
enlightened because I know, vaguely, the plot, but no details).

GAINAX was trying to tell their own version of THE PRISONER.

No fooling, folks. Both are stories of how mutable reality is, and just
how capricious the
"forces above" can be. Of course, this is a very loose analogy(and
possibly more
innacurate than accurate), but it's the nearest thing that I can come up
to that's of even remote
comparison.

Neon Genesis Evangelion started out as basically the stereotypical "Giant
Robot" tale. It
then evolved into a morality fable of the interactions of angels and men.
Eventually, and
excuse my language, it became a mind-gently caress. Not just for Shinji(sp), but
for us. Our minds
were so entrenched in the classical ending of a "Giant Robot" series that
when the final
episodes rolled around, we were literally slapped in the face. Don't
blush, we were all
fooled.

Or maybe not. Maybe that ending, of the entire story being a stage play
is merely an
analogy. Maybe Tokyo-3 is the stage for the Angels of GAINAX to play
their little tale.
And GAINAX is the stage for other angels to play their stories upon. Or
perhaps it was
all a test of the nature of humanity to reconginze that, eventually, we
are merely players
upon the stage of Destiny. We sing, we dance, we read our lines, and we
live upon our
own stage while others watch and exist on their own stage. Just some of
us have larger
roles to play.

(Tho this might bring up an very interesting point-all of "God"'s
inspriations on Earth might
be some heckler yelling on stage about our poor acting! No relgious
insult intended....)

And thus Evangelion ends. I honestly hope that if they redo the end
episodes, it's to
increase the power of the "slap in the face" ending. It would be a shame
if it was done
any other way.

Jon Souza
Jon.Souza@Creature.Com
NoDUI@AOL.Com
.SIG deleted because I'm trying to argue with the director

quote:

It should be pointed out that whatever anime was on Japan's airwaves
offered no competition whatsoever to Evangelion. The show won by default
in a sense.

It does not in any way mean the show is bad, but it's not as good as most
people in this newsgroup make it out to be. There are many light-years
between the skillful storytelling in Eva and the seminal ideas in Mazinger
Z and Gatchaman. GAINAX appear to be more the craftsman than the
originator.

quote:

Default? It was up against GUNDAM WING, RAYEARTH, MACROSS 7, SLAYERS,
and FUSHIGI YUUGI, none of which suck, all of which have fan
followings in both countries, and all of which made the top ten.
Remember that all anime, including movies and OAVs, are eligible in
the "Best" category, including this year's Studio Ghibli offerring,
MIMI O SUMASEBA--which EVANGELION also beat (it beat the high-profile
GHOST IN THE SHELL as well).

quote:

Most of the patrons on rec.arts.anime did not live in the Golden Age of anime.
Oh, they might have been alive then, but they were so consumed by things
mundane and American that they had no lives whatsoever. The era was
characterized by its vitality and originality. The buoyancy of the times was
such that it left a general impression on the public, and many young adults
today can recall such favourite shows as Mazinger, Gatchaman, and Yamato.
Having a trio of that calibre back-to-back in the early seventies was a treat
audience today is repeatedly denied. I deny not that the techniques employed
in animation and storytelling in those series were sometimes abysmal, and many
neophytes to the hobby wince at the sight of these relative dinosaurs.

But that was not the point--if they had any--of those classics.

When I view something I watch for fresh ideas. Unlike Evangelion, the shows in
the Golden Age of anime often presented ideas for a genre that were seminal.
Furthermore, they not only caught the attention of the infant fandom, but also
the population in general. Can one imagine normal adults (i.e., one who is not
particularly interested in anime) rushing home to watch Eva? It happened with
Gatchaman. The staff of those series were striving for something bold and new,
whether it be animation, plot, story, or sex and violence. The astonishing
thing was, they succeeded on all fronts. Such success inevitably gave rise to
copycat shows, but those shows tried to improve on the originals (hence
"seminal") and were successes in their own right.

The band of originators and the skillful copycats were the Golden Age. Their
influence was such that everyone in the broadcast range was affected.

This did not happen with Evangelion. Granted, one show does not make an era,
and the shows that accompanied Eva did not have the power of the clones of the
Golden Age. (They were no more than cult series, IMO.) What Eva reminded me
most of was a competent copycat in the seventies. It is not my intent to
insult the show by calling it that. It shows much of my respect for the staff
of the series because it is no small feat to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with
Steel Jeeg, Raideen, or Daitan 3. Evangelion was a good series, but I will not
demean it by making it out to be something much more than that.

It will take at least five series of Eva's class being simultaneously on the
air to recreate the atmosphere of the Golden Age. The sophistication of
Evangelion does not matter, for the impact of Getter Robo on the audience in
the seventies is in some ways the same as the impact of Eva on the audience in
the nineties. What the anime industry truly needs is another show that is
ground-breaking and attention-getting as those shows in the seventies. Like it
or not, the average person today will remember Sailor Moon, Slam Dunk and
Dragonball much more vividly than they will Evangelion--if they remember the
name at all.

quote:

Misato's a child, and one too complicated and made-up to be real. It's
been my experience that people are closer in personality (well, as close as
they can get) to Gatchaman than anybody in Eva. (Well, Shinji's father and
Shinji are damned realistic.)

Note: Shinji's a prototypical otaku. He's a lot like me when I was a kid
(except I wasn't a wimp). Many aspects of Shinji's father reminds me bits
of myself today. I think the creators really drew on themselves for these
two.

quote:

**Neon Genesis Evangelion (H) Angelic Impact part 2 number 6
It contains several stories, manga style, involving the evangelion
characters. All the stories are hentai oriented and in Black and White.
$22 + S/H

If you want some copies of videos involving anime characters in Hentai
situations just e-mail me and maybe we can work some deal.

Any replies should be made to this address: fvi...@csus.edu

quote:

Since this has opened up to all comers... Why not?

Katsurugi Misato ("Shin Seiki Evangelion")

LOOKS: Stunning. She is also a rarity in anime. An adult woman in a major
role. Her figure is trim and she is quite athletic so it is likely to stay that
way. The only thing you might have to get over is a large scar across her
chest. However her current lifestyle of high stress and high alcohol
consumption are likely to make her good looks rather short-lived.

SMARTS: In certain situations she is quite intelligent and resourceful.
Holding the rank of major in an organization charged with earth's final defense
against alien invasion indicates the mental ability is there. However, outside
of this context her intelligence seems little better developed than your average
14-sai.

PERSONALITY: Irresponsibility made flesh. In her capacity as a NERV operative
she carries out her duties with extaordinary competence. In her personal life
she's a disaster area. Indications are she is strongly prone to alcoholism if
she's not an alcoholic already. Seems to exist in only one of two emotional
states. Extreme excitement or extreme depression. We seem to have your classic
manic-depressive here. Understandable given what she's been through, but the
patience of Job will be required for any long-term involvement.

HOME ECONOMICS: If you're into beer and nuke-food welcome to heaven. No skills
with any kitchen appliance has been exhibited so far with the possible
exceptions of the refrigerator and the microwave. Garbage will accumulate if
you leave it to her to take it out, as will dirty dishes, dirty laundry, beer
cans and any other deritrus ordinary living can generate.

COMBAT SKILLS: Carries a handgun constantly and clearly indicates that she is
willing and able to use it. Unfortunately most of the people she's pointed it
at tend to be her friends or collegues. You're taking your chances here.
Unknown capability in the hand-to-hand arena but assume she's had some NERV
training in that area. Indications are she's stronger than her size would
indicate so she could probably break a limb or two unless you've had some
training yourself.

SPECIAL ABILITIES: None in the supernatural, magical or super-scientific area
but she has enough guts for a small army. She is tenacious once she latches
onto a challenge and will either complete the task she's assigned herself or die
in the attempt.

COMPETITION: Ikari Shinji and PenPen. Neither of these are romantic rivals but
she is intensely devoted to both of them, particularly Shinji. The one romantic
interest in her life appears to have booked so he would most likely not be a
concern except for the fact that the memories of a lover can be harder to
overcome than the lover himself. It looks like a clear field if you can
convince her of the sincerity of your interest. She is desperately lonely and
will latch onto any source of attention, romantic or otherwise.

IN-LAWS: Doesn't appear to be any. Her father was killed at Second Impact and
there appears to be no data on her mother.

FINANCES: NERV appears to operate on another of anime's unwritten laws:

The greater an organization's responsibility, the smaller it's budget.

NERV doesn't appear to pay all that well. Understandable given the overhead of
maintaining Tokyo-3 and three Eva Units. You will have the perk of being safely
tucked underground in case of Angel attack, but then we've seen that being
underground didn't provide that much safety in the face of an Angel attack. In
all likelyhood you will be the primary breadwinner in this relationship and it
doesn't appear that Misato's career with NERV is likely to be a long one.
Unfortunately her resume and personality traits aren't likely to qualify her for
any other position.

SEX: The one bright spot in this litany. Evidently very competent and very
vocal. She will also probably demand it constantly as she is a lady in
continuing need of reassurance. Give up on any thoughts of nights out with the
guys.

OVERALL: If you are independently wealthy and can spend the rest of your life
in bed while maids and servants carry out the mundane chores of your household
then by all means go for it. Otherwise this lady is in serious need of therapy
before she could be considered anywhere near ready for a serious commitment. If
you get involved with her at her current state of development you could find
getting out of her life will be a lot harder than getting into it.


--
Kyle

"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered." - No. 6

a kitten posted:

Hey do Gendo and Asuka ever directly interact the entire show? I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind.

Sakurazuka posted:

No, in fact I think the only time he acknowledges her existence is in episode 22 during the Angel attack on her.

Sakurazuka posted:

I might revise my opinion when I watch it again but I always interpreted the Congratulations scene as as him being welcomed into the collective consciousness after working through his demons.

Srice posted:

I wanna point out that the following guy owns because he watched the entire show unsubbed without understanding Japanese:

Sakurazuka posted:

You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time.

Anyone who expects the 'mystery' to be solved is going to have a bad time because that's not the point.

Sakurazuka posted:

I'm always amused by people who think EoE is the 'better' ending when all it does is sort of explain the mechanics of Instrumentality and everything else is pretty much the same as the TV series.
I mean I prefer it because it has some absolutely gorgeous sequences, but the only fundamental difference is Shinji rejecting rather than embracing Instrumentality.

Microcline posted:

The problem with 25-26 is that running out of money forced Gainax to tell us the resolution instead of showing us. EoE reaches the same conclusions for the character arcs, but it does so by wrapping up the giant robot story. Evangelion might be character-focused, but they wouldn't have put in giant robots if they weren't effective vehicles for character development.

Zas posted:

yeah that dude gets it more than all the others lol

Sakurazuka posted:

They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that.

ImpAtom posted:

If you want an 'ending' the manga has an ending. You will be disappointed if you read that ending.

Sakurazuka posted:

They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that.

Srice posted:

As promised, I dove through old Usenet posts for treasure.

I'll note that I filtered it by date. Specifically, before End of Evangelion was out.

Some of them will be funny to read, others less so but hey it's fun to see how people watching the show via fansubbed VHS tapes reacted all those years ago!




I wanna point out that the following guy owns because he watched the entire show unsubbed without understanding Japanese:


A post in response to a topic about Evangelion winning the Animage Grand Prix polls for anime of the year:


And a reply to the above post


Another post from the thread about the poll.





Here's the last one, I wasn't able to read the whole thing but I challenge others to step up to the plate

Sakurazuka posted:

They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that.

Sakurazuka posted:

They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that.

Srice posted:

I think the fact that 25 and 26 don't have director's cut versions are a testament to that. They could easily have afforded to make changes if they wanted to, but they didn't.