khwarezm posted:

I was being a bit facetious, but as a dinosaur nerd I find it a bit silly to treat Spinosaurus as emperor badass of all the dinosaurs just cause it was really big. It would be like if in 60 million years the dominant race of mutant squid people start making movies about the prehistoric animals of now, and they have the most dangerous, kickass animal of them all be a panda bear.

Alteisen posted:

My favorite RNG moments are probably the hunger ones, the game keeps track of your characters hunger and whether or not they are full, you can have them eat and have them be full, take 2 steps and suddenly "YOUR PARTY IS HUNGRY AND NEEDS TO EAT", for some weird reason they didn't program a check for that, its just RNG.

Digirat posted:

I was reading reviews for the game a few months ago since I wanted to know if the presentation could salvage the terrible RNG-ridden gameplay and one of them said hunger is not even a distance thing. The implementation is seriously that a tile on the floor will be invisibly labeled "hunger" and if you step on that tile then suddenly we gotta eat. If you take a detour 3 hallways long to go around that tile, you might not see hunger pop up at all.

I later saw streamers confirm this. I feel like everyone who worked on the presentation in that game would be better off elsewhere, where their talents would be put to use on a better product, because goddamn the art design is too good to be wasted on a slot machine of a game.

Sleeveless posted:

The great thing is that the early-adopter grognards who ruined the game for everyone else are still swearing that the game isn't hard enough and everybody else needs to

Danger Mahoney posted:

In case anyone is wondering, DD turned into a case study on why developers should rarely listen to their community. They've let the early adopter fans steer development to be COOL GUYS, but it turns out that their community was a bunch of toxic ubernerds who have been playing the game forever and demanded that every update be aimed squarely at giving them a fresh challenge. Now they're trying to backpedal which is making said grognards scream bloody murder.

Danger Mahoney posted:

In case anyone is wondering, DD turned into a case study on why developers should rarely listen to their community. They've let the early adopter fans steer development to be COOL GUYS, but it turns out that their community was a bunch of toxic ubernerds who have been playing the game forever and demanded that every update be aimed squarely at giving them a fresh challenge. Now they're trying to backpedal which is making said grognards scream bloody murder.

RareAcumen posted:

Is all this buffoonery documented in the DD thread in games?

Reading about this really makes me wish it had game settings like Don't Starve does.

Danger Mahoney posted:

In case anyone is wondering, DD turned into a case study on why developers should rarely listen to their community. They've let the early adopter fans steer development to be COOL GUYS, but it turns out that their community was a bunch of toxic ubernerds who have been playing the game forever and demanded that every update be aimed squarely at giving them a fresh challenge. Now they're trying to backpedal which is making said grognards scream bloody murder.

Somfin posted:

I remember when it was fun! I remember it being hard- fuckin' hard- but fun! drat, dude, my team's made up of three gibbering madmen and one who's gone full idiot hero but I think we can pull through and get that last room, let's do this poo poo! The three can't get worse and the one gets a crit every other attack, and if we pull through we'll be able to asylum up all three of 'em, let's fuckin go!

And then everything that's come out since has just been racking up the difficulty until, gently caress, why bother? I could barely hack it when it was "easy."

E: Yeah, anything that is deliberately stopping you from using good synergies is just hosed. If two classes are too good in concert and you can't design around that poo poo, saying "well you just can't use them together" is poo poo-tier game design, especially when it's literally a special case involving one specific class. The proper response is to put in a bunch of other cool synergies for players to discover, because that is where the fun is.

As it stands, I feel like the game has devolved into "if you play perfectly and the RNG smiles upon you, you might make it through some basic dungeons" as opposed to the old system which was more "holy gently caress dude how did you pull through there at the end (which honestly isn't too difficult but it sure feels like it in the heat of the moment)?"

Krinkle posted:

Which characters were too good together? A lot of people won't play with the accursed beastman in chains. Like two or three maybe more of them?

packetmantis posted:

keep blurting out a bunch of poo poo to cover up the fact that you don't know how to play the game.

packetmantis posted:

So, again, people just refusing to shuffle up their strategy and crying about DEVZ MAKE GAEM 2 HARD.

Sleeveless posted:

The great thing is that the early-adopter grognards who ruined the game for everyone else are still swearing that the game isn't hard enough and everybody else needs to

Krinkle posted:

Which characters were too good together? A lot of people won't play with the accursed beastman in chains. Like two or three maybe more of them?

Sleeveless posted:

packetmantis posted:

I see you've figured out the quote function! Congratulations!

Stuntman posted:

Please keep posting, your defense of DD is hilarious.

khwarezm posted:

Abominations and 'holy' characters like vestals and crusaders. To be fair I suppose it kind of works from a world-building point of view.

khwarezm posted:

Abominations and 'holy' characters like vestals and crusaders. To be fair I suppose it kind of works from a world-building point of view.

Ramos posted:

Are you guys sure you aren't misremembering things? The game's gotten easier since its initial release and every change the devs have made just got annoyance from the community because much of what they've done is to balance the fact that bruiser classes like the Crusader, Highwayman, and Leper were just straight up better than other classes that didn't have raw damage output.

The game is definitely really grindy and the curios being unintuitive since early access, but I don't know, I don't recall it being any harder than when I first bought the early access game. The main thing to learn about the game is risk management and the value of skills that reposition your characters and your enemy team. I don't know, the biggest issue is just that the gameplay is incredibly repetitive, which takes away from that feel of horror that the game goes for. You can get things down to a routine.

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

It doesn't, because the Occultist has literally made a pact with an old god and summons tentacles to bash on people inbetween doing blood sacrifices to heal absurd amounts, the Leper is a walking rotting corpse of a man and the Plague Doctor loves hacking apart bodies and experimenting with flesh melting blight potions. No other character has an issue partying with literal old god summoners. They couldn't balance that poo poo properly so instead of reworking it they just locked out the ones with the best synergy.

khwarezm posted:

They seem to enjoy it there so probably not.

khwarezm posted:

Yeah now that I think about I can't come up with a particularly good narrative reason why Lepers wouldn't fight alongside Abominations.

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

Games definitely gotten way harder. I had a save back in March, one in September-December and one when the full release came out. It's not even just stress, characters pile on so many status effects, get crit'd, miss their attacks and even don't have their skills proc properly. In comparison to when I first played it by the time you make it out everyone has probably gained 2-3 on a good run that need to be paid off at the sanitarium. If you've invested a few levels of upgrades you can't afford to just dump them in the wilds, so good luck spending a third of a run's loot trying to fix those while trying to save up to upgrade everyone else.

It really sucks because instead of making quirks and the sicknesses something that was uncommon but a huge deciding factor on whether you thought it was worth curing them, they just piled them on. That seems to be how they changed all the mechanics too.

Also, good luck grinding 16 full level heroes (bare minimum) with full upgrades and trinkets to do the Darkest Dungeon. Good loving luck.

Ramos posted:

I think you're confusing grindy with difficulty. That said, yeah, the quirks are kind of insane and the lack of difference between diseases and personality things is disappointing.

But a lot of people don't really approach the game realizing that your party members are meat to grind. Even as you unlock more difficult missions, there will always be easy ranked missions to toss new people at, which in turn gives you a lot of what you'll need to progress.

So yeah, still ridiculously grindy but not that hard. I do hope with the modding stuff that people make the game take way less time to get through. It's an interesting take on things that over stays its welcome really fast, which is part of why I put in four or five hours when it initially came out and didn't touch it until now.

packetmantis posted:

The leper is based on King Baldwin IV who was super Christian.

Horrible Smutbeast posted:

The problem is you need Level 6 characters (at the very least, 16 of them) to do the final dungeon and unlock the "ending." Each level 6 character is about 60k worth of investment for skills, upgrades, quirk removals, trinkets, etc. The game tries to tell you that you need to throw them endlessly in through the meatgrinder, but you can't do that when you're looking at losing 240k of an investment if you wipe.

16 characters for the endgame dungeon is going to be around 900-1000k worth of investment for one dungeon alone. When you only get 20-30k a dungeon on a good run it's hosed up to have a skeleton throw it's drink in your Crusaders face twice in a row and give him an unavoidable heartattack.

For the modding check the steam forums. Some people have found out how to remove the level restrictions so you can steamroll lower level dungeons with your full level characters, or return to the Darkest Dungeon. It's a good quick fix for now.

Nuebot posted:

Yet he'll still be best buds with a grave robber and a literal demon worshipper.

Ramos posted:

So it's really loving grindy instead of hard.

packetmantis posted:

The leper is based on King Baldwin IV who was super Christian.

Somfin posted:

Ah, so it's a realism thing and of course the Vestal and Crusader and Leper are all far too Christian and pure to ever ally themselves with a demon-possessed human it's lore guys it's deep and rich and meaningful and not a half-assed patch at all and if you just cared enough you'd understand

But they'll team up with the Occultist just fine despite him literally summoning the powers of an opposing deity because uh oh poo poo it's just a video game guys god stop whining about it in the whining about games thread why do you all care so much stop caring and just play the game and it'll be fun

Somfin posted:

Ah, so it's a realism thing and of course the Vestal and Crusader and Leper are all far too Christian and pure to ever ally themselves with a demon-possessed human it's lore guys it's deep and rich and meaningful and not a half-assed patch at all and if you just cared enough you'd understand

But they'll team up with the Occultist just fine despite him literally summoning the powers of an opposing deity because uh oh poo poo it's just a video game guys god stop whining about it in the whining about games thread why do you all care so much stop caring and just play the game and it'll be fun

packetmantis posted:

You should probably drink some water.