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xthetenth posted:That's kind of entirely backwards. Saying that the past and now are really terrible is also saying they aren't necessarily the default state of affairs and therefore there's a bunch of room for better is pointedly not saying oh hey poo poo's hosed forever guess I'll give up and be smug. I mean yeah, it's not nearly as dystopic now, it's that we've gotten some of the nifty characteristics of prior periods' literature and they're just treated as everyday things. We've got megacorps and massive invasive surveillance and other things that used to be the foundation of dystopia literature. That's what I was trying to get at, not necessarily that woo everything's gotten worse or anything. We had larger mega corps in the past, and you people need to stop wetting the bed over surveillance. People watching what you do around other people has been a thing since civilization started. There were precious few true secrets and very little privacy in say, the typical small town or village through most of human history. Hell even today in many of them it's that way still! Even today, advertisers know and learn way more about you than the NSA and that's been true online since like 96 when Web advertising really took off.
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Jan 23, 2016 05:43
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I reject your reality and substitute my own, in which the Honourable East India Company and Standard Oil never existed.
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Jan 23, 2016 13:15
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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The Anthropocene is a pretty well established fact. Our technology brought us into a new era around 1950.
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Jan 23, 2016 13:43
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All of this talk about how the past was faster/slower/better/worse/etc. reminds me of the "back in my day" phenomenon. https://xkcd.com/1227/
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Jan 24, 2016 19:37
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Carsius posted:All of this talk about how the past was faster/slower/better/worse/etc. reminds me of the "back in my day" phenomenon. Change has pretty much been a constant for everyone since around the time Columbus set food in the western hemisphere. These constant technological and geopolitical upheavals have defined capitalism, imperialism, the American and French Revolutions, Marxism, the 2 World Wars, etc. All of these are been part and parcel with the world shrinking and more knowledge and capital being stored and available.
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Jan 24, 2016 19:44
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Bold of you to peg it to Columbus.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:07
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In fairness there have been long stretches of many centuries for many cultures of a relatively slow pace of change, before globalization. Which I guess Columbus is a good enough shorthand for.
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Jan 25, 2016 04:12
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Going back to PTD's original point: I'd say that it's more of an issue of the areas of progress that were made, not the rate of progress. I can get behind the idea that the type of progress that was happening in the early-to-mid 20th century would result in the kind of weird experiments that the DoD and CIA performed in that era. You're a high-ranking general in the 60s and you are seeing a manifestation of the kinds of things that only existed in pulp novels when you were a kid (Space Travel! Doomsday Bombs!), why not see if the other things from those pulp novels (ESP! Mind Control!) had anything to them? Now that the most noticeable types of progress that are happening are in the information technology sphere, I'm sure there are some really weird experiments going down (that we won't find out about for many decades) that center around that kind of stuff. Like, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if some crank is cashing a check from the DoD in exchange for researching singularity-type things (Uploading Human Consciousness! Roko's Basilisk!) to see if they are possible and if they can be used to advance American interests.
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Jan 25, 2016 06:44
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e_angst posted:Going back to PTD's original point: I'd say that it's more of an issue of the areas of progress that were made, not the rate of progress. Well DARPA just announced they're going to be doing some cyborg stuff. http://www.darpa.mil/news-events/2015-01-19 quote:A new DARPA program aims to develop an implantable neural interface able to provide unprecedented signal resolution and data-transfer bandwidth between the human brain and the digital world. The interface would serve as a translator, converting between the electrochemical language used by neurons in the brain and the ones and zeros that constitute the language of information technology. The goal is to achieve this communications link in a biocompatible device no larger than one cubic centimeter in size, roughly the volume of two nickels stacked back to back.
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Jan 25, 2016 08:01
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C.M. Kruger posted:Well DARPA just announced they're going to be doing some cyborg stuff. Just wait until the program accidentally releases poison gas, killing hundreds of thousands of people in Singapore. Seriously though, given how wacky the stuff we know about is, the top secret stuff has got to be bonkers. Waterboarding:butthummus::neural interfaces:???
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Jan 25, 2016 13:19
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QuarkJets posted:Because the exact opposite of that is true. In nearly every sector we've advanced way further during 1950-2000 than we did during 1900-1950. Your perception of the rate of technological advancement over the last 115 years is highly inaccurate. Technology has continued to advance but it's the early 20th century that invented and spread the entire idea of advancement. Even early/mid industrialization would have been fundamentally recognizable to an educated person plucked from ancient rome. The telegraph might have been a headscratcher along with a couple other things but metal and steam which dominated the times were known quantities. The 20th century saw the invention of new things seemingly out of thin air - electricity, radio, TV the atomic bomb and actual medicines like penicillin. As importantly it widely distributed them in the form of home appliances, cars, planes and other things which by about 1950 were accessible to most people and incorporated in the fabric of everyday life. So in terms of actual day-to-day life impact it's safe to say that there is something different about the changes someone experience over say 1890-1970 than 1950-2030. Anecdotal one way this plays out is to observe the generational changes. My grandparents, born 1920's and earlier are far more different culturally from their children than my wife and I are from our parents who grew up in the 60's and 70's with modern expectations of middle class life (hell music from then is still popular).
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Jan 25, 2016 15:12
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Yeah I mean, we could all go back to the 1970s, and poo poo would be a bit unpleasant, but generally things would work out. Even if you currently have major medical problems or need an organ transplant, you can almost always get that covered in the 70s. Go back another 40 years? Most of us with severe medical problems would be dead within months, and the rest don't even have a drat radio for entertainment.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:51
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asdf32 posted:Technology has continued to advance but it's the early 20th century that invented and spread the entire idea of advancement. Even early/mid industrialization would have been fundamentally recognizable to an educated person plucked from ancient rome. The telegraph might have been a headscratcher along with a couple other things but metal and steam which dominated the times were known quantities. Yeah the change from 1890-1970 was way more dramatic.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:58
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Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes.  As if your great grandparents wouldn't be loving lost today to a whole other degree than your great great grandparents would be in the 70s... 
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Jan 25, 2016 16:11
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Caconym posted:Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes. I wonder how many units of human progress we've gone up this year so far.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:23
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Caconym posted:Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes. This is based on at least two entirely faulty premises. In truth, the industrial revolution is and remains by far and away the most substantial change to have ever happened in human history, and it's very difficult to imagine a change that large happening again in the foreseeable future. Futhermore, the whole concept of 'progress' is notoriously difficult to pin down, and shouldn't be treated so casually.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:23
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Just wait until the program accidentally releases poison gas, killing hundreds of thousands of people in Singapore. Call of Duty is promoted and funded by the military to get young kids used to all of the invasive and strange experiments that are going to come to light soon. Highlighting MK Ultra and other conspiracies in their recent game along with collecting donations specifically for the military causes the subconcious of children to associate the fond and pleasant memories of charity donation with the insane research programs the military is doing. When it's revealed people will be less shocked as it's shown up in media for a long time and is shown to be cool and fun.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:26
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The creation of Google Glass moved us up one Unit of Human Progress, the realization that only douchebags wear Google Glass was worth two Units of Human Progress. But Under the Dome getting cancelled moved us down at least half a Unit of Human Progress. I don't know if a crossdressing man winning Eurovision balances that out. Still got a lot of math to do on that one.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:28
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Fried Watermelon posted:Call of Duty is promoted and funded by the military to get young kids used to all of the invasive and strange experiments that are going to come to light soon. lol
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Jan 25, 2016 16:32
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boom boom boom posted:The creation of Google Glass moved us up one Unit of Human Progress, the realization that only douchebags wear Google Glass was worth two Units of Human Progress. But Under the Dome getting cancelled moved us down at least half a Unit of Human Progress. I don't know if a crossdressing man winning Eurovision balances that out. Still got a lot of math to do on that one. Surely it was Under the Dome airing in the first place that caused the 0.5 units of regression?
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Jan 25, 2016 16:36
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Caconym posted:Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes. You got a weird idea of young adult if you think 1980, let alone anything older, was in their lifetime.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:39
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Jazerus posted:Surely it was Under the Dome airing in the first place that caused the 0.5 units of regression? Oh, sorry it's not another reality show about truck drivers or yelling women. Some people want a serious sci-fi drama about giant amethysts charging eggs that make domes so they can imprison people in cocoons and send egg energy into their brains to turn them into an alien hivemind so it can bring down the dome it made so that, uh...
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Jan 25, 2016 16:41
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boom boom boom posted:Oh, sorry it's not another reality show about truck drivers or yelling women. Some people want a serious sci-fi drama about giant amethysts charging eggs that make domes so they can imprison people in cocoons and send egg energy into their brains to turn them into an alien hivemind so it can bring down the dome it made so that, uh... I would like to thank you for sharing the plot to the show (and by extension the book). I'm serious by the way I had been wondering what the deal with it was but haven't had the time to read the book
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Jan 25, 2016 17:04
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KomradeX posted:I would like to thank you for sharing the plot to the show (and by extension the book). I'm serious by the way I had been wondering what the deal with it was but haven't had the time to read the book The book and tv show really diverge, because as it stands the events that take place in the book could easily be wrapped up in like, a 6 hour miniseries. The book is just, in summary, small Maine town becomes completely cut off by a dome shaped object that's indestructible, and which also keeps air from circulating. The sheriff and some of the government people are evil jerks who take advantage to rule as dictators, eventually a meth lab explodes and a fireball happens which nearly suffocates everyone, and then the dome gets removed by the force that put it there. That's just a rough outline of course, and i left out several of the twists.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:11
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fishmech posted:Yeah I mean, we could all go back to the 1970s, and poo poo would be a bit unpleasant, but generally things would work out. Even if you currently have major medical problems or need an organ transplant, you can almost always get that covered in the 70s. Go back another 40 years? Most of us with severe medical problems would be dead within months, and the rest don't even have a drat radio for entertainment. Of course, your medical recovery times would be measured in months and your odds of survival would be much lower. You'd also have much poorer diagnostic equipment and be less likely to get proper treatment. Fast forward ten years from now, and most surgeries will probably be done entirely via tiny incisions, catheters, and/or robots with recovery times measured in hours. This is already true of some surgeries, and there's a big push to get it to apply to more and more operations. It's difficult to understand just how hilariously fast technology is advancing these days, but if you're in any sort of R&D program, then you can see the pace we're moving at.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:22
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fishmech posted:The book and tv show really diverge, because as it stands the events that take place in the book could easily be wrapped up in like, a 6 hour miniseries. I'm glad I skipped on reading that one that just sounds so freaking awful. Or not awful but phoned in at best
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Jan 25, 2016 17:31
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KomradeX posted:I'm glad I skipped on reading that one that just sounds so freaking awful. Or not awful but phoned in at best Stephen King saw the Simpsons movie and he had a deadline.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:18
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Caconym posted:Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes. Why would anybody be lost, Singularity worshipper? People go from peasant lifestyles to posting on social media all the time.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:09
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e_angst posted:Like, I wouldn't be surprised in the least if some crank is cashing a check from the DoD in exchange for researching singularity-type things (Uploading Human Consciousness! Roko's Basilisk!) to see if they are possible and if they can be used to advance American interests.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:23
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Dirk the Average posted:Of course, your medical recovery times would be measured in months and your odds of survival would be much lower. You'd also have much poorer diagnostic equipment and be less likely to get proper treatment. 30 years ago if you got cancer you were hosed. Now 90% of cancers are balls easy to cure if they're caught early enough.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:39
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I was watching that Future Shock documentary(it's narrated by Orson Welles, it's pretty good) and towards the end he says something like, "now scientists claim that it is actually possible to create a human child by artificially implanting a harvested egg with a sperm outside of the woman's body. What would people produced in such a manner be like? Would they have souls?" That was in 1972
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Jan 25, 2016 19:46
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asdf32 posted:So in terms of actual day-to-day life impact it's safe to say that there is something different about the changes someone experience over say 1890-1970 than 1950-2030. You're kind of a weird dude. "Life changed more in this 80-year period than in this overlapping 80-year period that also includes the future"??? Do better. I'd say that day-to-day life impact had changed more dramatically from 1900-1950 than from say 1950-today, but only if you limit your examination to the most superficial aspects of day-to-day life. Like if you just want to look at really basic first-order poo poo then that's one thing, but if you actually look at humanity as a system then holy poo poo change is way faster today. People in 1950 weren't capable of launching a loving space crane to Mars and successfully using it remotely. That poo poo is something that you'd read about maybe in a Ray Bradbury novel, not a newspaper. This kind of thing represents such an enormous leap in capability that it becomes difficult to even compare the state of technology between the two eras. We can put an entire football field of 1950s computational power into our loving pockets, and this is so commonplace that we use this power to watch cat videos and send pictures of our genitalia to each other for gently caress's sake. QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 20:02
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boom boom boom posted:I was watching that Future Shock documentary(it's narrated by Orson Welles, it's pretty good) and towards the end he says something like, "now scientists claim that it is actually possible to create a human child by artificially implanting a harvested egg with a sperm outside of the woman's body. What would people produced in such a manner be like? Would they have souls?" The answer is no. They wouldn't. Neither would anyone else. Or you. I hope this helps.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:13
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Berk Berkly posted:The answer is no. They wouldn't. But what does it truly mean to "have a soul"? 
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Jan 25, 2016 20:20
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QuarkJets posted:I'd say that day-to-day life impact had changed more dramatically from 1900-1950 than from say 1950-today, but only if you limit your examination to the most superficial aspects of day-to-day life. Like if you just want to look at really basic first-order poo poo then that's one thing, but if you actually look at humanity as a system then holy poo poo change is way faster today. you're right, my day to day existence is drastically different now what with the robotic exploration program. why just the other day i launched my own space crane to mars and
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Jan 25, 2016 20:30
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you're right, my day to day existence is drastically different now what with the robotic exploration program. why just the other day i launched my own space crane to mars and The Space Program: well known for driving absolutely no technological development whatsoever and having absolutely no impact on our day to day lives.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:41
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SedanChair posted:Why would anybody be lost, Singularity worshipper? People go from peasant lifestyles to posting on social media all the time. And as everybody knows peasants are a quaint folk, generally unaware of the world beyond their fields. "lostness" measured by how much coaching would be required to perform everyday tasks, humans are smart, we can learn. I just think a lot of the people in this thread underestimate just how much has changed in the last 30 years.
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Jan 25, 2016 22:55
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QuarkJets posted:You're kind of a weird dude. "Life changed more in this 80-year period than in this overlapping 80-year period that also includes the future"??? Do better. Are we really writing off the fact that almost every society was still primarily non-urbanised in 1900 as 'superficial'. Mars landers are cool but they don't represent a meaningful change in daily lives.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:00
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Caconym posted:And as everybody knows peasants are a quaint folk, generally unaware of the world beyond their fields. Indeed, they know little of the larger world that exists beyond their corn fields.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:10
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blowfish posted:Indeed, they know little of the larger world that exists beyond their corn fields. My point is that they start off less familiar with technology than my great-great grandfather, then they immigrate to the US, or they take a factory job in China, or whatever, and in a short time they are caught up with the rest of us. Sometimes people act like if you step out of your frame of reference your head will explode when you see a car or a smartphone, but it happens all the time and our modern world is impressive, but less overwhelming than you might think.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:23
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