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From what I've read the Epstein drive has been in use and driven colonization of the solar system for 150 years. So presumably Mars has been colonized for at least 200 years. It has a population of 4 billion. I've ordered four of the books because I'm finding the setting really interesting (and I read a few spoilers on the wiki and now I'm really interested). Demiurge4 fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 16:13
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'Billions on Mars' shouldn't be the thing that makes the timescale sound ridiculous. I don't think a human population of ~30 billion by that time is even a high estimate by our current population growth projections.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:24
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The America's were discovered 500 years ago and colonization began almost immediately. Currently the population of the America's is a total of ~950 million. Mars is much more remote, requires expensive upkeep and is completely inhospitable to human life so 4 billion requires astronomical migration and birth rates, even accounting for modern (and future) medicine, if we assume a 2-300 year timeline.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:30
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Boing posted:'Billions on Mars' shouldn't be the thing that makes the timescale sound ridiculous. I don't think a human population of ~30 billion by that time is even a high estimate by our current population growth projections. You have to move those people, though. Even in the Expanse setting moving, say, ten million people from Earth to Mars each year would be an enormous undertaking, and even that huge amount of migration is only a billion people in a century. These questions are why they haven't specified a year in the books.  I don't know why they said anything in the show.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:33
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Boing posted:'Billions on Mars' shouldn't be the thing that makes the timescale sound ridiculous. I don't think a human population of ~30 billion by that time is even a high estimate by our current population growth projections. Well, there's one of two ways people get there; either they move there, or they're born there. Moving billions of people, even with the future-tech space drive they have (does it work for surface-to-orbit launches as well?), is a colossal undertaking. Birthing a billion people also takes time. I'm not going to say it's 'ridiculous', but it's certainly an impressive achievement. e:f,b As for 30 billion, it depends on when you think the total population is eventually going to plateau, due to resource scarcity and/or people deciding to limit how many children they have. We already have some regions on Earth where the birth rate has declined below the replacement rate. Some places make up for it with immigration, others don't.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:36
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They haven't stated a population for Mars in the show though so they could shrink that figure for realism if they wanted to.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:36
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:the future-tech space drive they have (does it work for surface-to-orbit launches as well?) At least some of the launches out of deep gravity wells involve big railguns, if I recall correctly, but I'm not sure it's necessary. A ship that can accelerate over 1g should be able to lift off on its own, no?
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Jan 25, 2016 16:49
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The Rocinante can take off and land on planets. The big ships can't, as far as we know.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:51
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Toast Museum posted:At least some of the launches out of deep gravity wells involve big railguns, if I recall correctly, but I'm not sure it's necessary. A ship that can accelerate over 1g should be able to lift off on its own, no? Probably, although what made me hesitant was not knowing how the Epstein drive behaves in an atmosphere, i.e. does the specific impulse go to complete poo poo at sea-level atmospheric pressure? does it wreck nearby infrastructure through heat and shock? But it sounds like it's usable in atmosphere. Grand Fromage posted:The Rocinante can take off and land on planets. The big ships can't, as far as we know. Okay, cool.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:12
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I don't know if it's ever been made clear what they use for fuel. There's a lot of talk about water and air shortages, but energy has always seemed plentiful, especially considering the insane energy just going into ship acceleration. The books mention 'fuel pellets' a few times, but they're not supposed to be dirt cheap or anything. I guess they're mining deuterium from the same ice rocks they get their water and air from?
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Jan 25, 2016 17:19
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Well, the thing with the Epstein drive is they avoid specifics on how it works. The official answer to how does the Epstein drive work is "very well". All that I remember being stated in the books is: It's hugely efficient compared with the old engines, which allows for ships to stay under constant acceleration and have long range. They mention a ship like the Rocinante can cross the entire solar system a few times without needing to refuel. It uses a fusion reactor for its power. The fusion reactor uses lasers. There are two resources: the "fuel pellets" for the fusion, and reaction mass which gets shot out the engine for the actual thrust. It can be used as a short range weapon--you don't want to be anywhere near the engine plume. It is bright enough to be detected anywhere in the system if you're under thrust. There's some sort of magnetic thrust coil involved.
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Jan 25, 2016 17:35
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Probably, although what made me hesitant was not knowing how the Epstein drive behaves in an atmosphere, i.e. does the specific impulse go to complete poo poo at sea-level atmospheric pressure? does it wreck nearby infrastructure through heat and shock? But it sounds like it's usable in atmosphere. Well I don't think you'd need to kick off at full thrust in an atmosphere. You could get by with enough delta V to escape orbit and get to a safe distance before you begin the acceleration burn that requires the whole shock seat thing. The drive works for interplanetary travel because the efficiency allows it to burn for the entire duration of the trip at huge emission but there's no need to emit the power of a small star when you're taking off Earth.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:02
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This is my favorite show now, and I'm super happy there is a legit kickass scifi show on TV again. I've been telling everyone I know to watch this. The last time I liked a scifi show this much my baby got stomped on and crushed. SGU why. Why baby why.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:19
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Doesn't it also involve burning to a half way point, then flipping and decelerating an equal amount?
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Jan 25, 2016 19:22
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This site is really good at explaining the mechanics in the series. Epstien Drive: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/enginelist.php#id--Fusion--%7B_Epstein_Drive_%7D About Flip and Burn: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/torchships.php#id--Brachistochrone_Equations
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Jan 25, 2016 19:36
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In layman's terms, "it's a rocket in space and it's really good!!"
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Jan 25, 2016 19:40
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It's a plot drive.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:43
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bloodychill posted:They haven't stated a population for Mars in the show though so they could shrink that figure for realism if they wanted to. Actually they have, and its more than twice the 4b you all are referencing http://www.syfy.com/theexpanse/enterthefuture/inside/mars/description I imagine "breeding like martians" has replaced "breeding like rabbits" in the expanse 
Iseeyouseemeseeyou fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 19:44
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Nostalgia4Infinity posted:It's a plot drive. 
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Jan 25, 2016 19:51
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HUGE SPACEKABLOOIE posted:Doesn't it also involve burning to a half way point, then flipping and decelerating an equal amount? Well, yes. But the engine is still "accelerating the entire way". It's just for half the trip the acceleration vector is 180 degrees in the other direction.
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Jan 25, 2016 20:17
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DrPlump posted:This site is really good at explaining the mechanics in the series. By the way, linked from this: http://www.syfy.com/theexpanse/drive/ the text of the short story about the drive's invention
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Jan 25, 2016 20:21
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Flesh Forge posted:By the way, linked from this: That was a good read. Reminds me of this short story from Sword of the Stars on the discovery of FTL node drives.
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Jan 25, 2016 21:52
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Iseeyouseemeseeyou posted:Actually they have, and its more than twice the 4b you all are referencing http://www.syfy.com/theexpanse/enterthefuture/inside/mars/description Earth has population restrictions (complete with forced birth control), so that's probably one factor driving in immigration/having lots of children to/in Mars. All the Martians live under domes and underground tunnels, I imagine once you get past the initial colonization effort it wouldn't be THAT hard to build more living space as you go, with all the future tech, resources of the belt and space travel apparently being inexpensive enough. Also Martians are basically communists so I can imagine there is some natalist poo poo involved too. And the average lifespan is past 123.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:09
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DarkCrawler posted:Earth has population restrictions (complete with forced birth control), so that's probably one factor driving in immigration/having lots of children to/in Mars. All the Martians live under domes and underground tunnels, I imagine once you get past the initial colonization effort it wouldn't be THAT hard to build more living space as you go, with all the future tech, resources of the belt and space travel apparently being inexpensive enough. Also Martians are basically communists so I can imagine there is some natalist poo poo involved too. And the average lifespan is past 123. Also for a couple generations of humanity before the Epstein drive was invented Mars was the only place humans could reasonably travel to colonize. It took 3 months to 1.5 years to travel there depending on the plant alignments. Missions to the belt and further were strictly for research and exploration.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:33
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Mars and Luna, which is heavily populated too.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:41
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pugnax posted:Something else that's sort of neat is the presence of the sun - if the orbits between two points are opposite the sun, obviously you need to go around it, avoiding flares and managing heat. That's not really how space works. You almost never want to travel in a straight line in a gravity well, even when there's nothing in the way. Doing so means you're fighting against gravity the whole way.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:56
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You shouldn't be allowed to talk about solar system navigation as portrayed in the show until you have played Kerbal Space Program for a while.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:01
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Fister Roboto posted:That's not really how space works. You almost never want to travel in a straight line in a gravity well, even when there's nothing in the way. Doing so means you're fighting against gravity the whole way. has a heinlein quote in his avatar and literally doesn't understand the first thing about orbital mechanics a shameful poster
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Jan 26, 2016 02:55
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Fister Roboto posted:That's not really how space works. You almost never want to travel in a straight line in a gravity well, even when there's nothing in the way. Doing so means you're fighting against gravity the whole way.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:47
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withak posted:You shouldn't be allowed to talk about solar system navigation as portrayed in the show until you have played Kerbal Space Program for a while. That game is pretty amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E4TDYmyBq8
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Jan 26, 2016 03:58
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Lord Hydronium posted:That's the most energy efficient way, but the Epstein drive makes it so energy efficiency isn't an issue anymore and a spaceship can focus on getting there quickly instead. Delta-v is basically a free resource in the Expanse. For the most part yep. There's nothing that defies the laws of physics about the way the ships work, there are just efficiency assumptions made. The energy available to a ship is effectively unlimited as long as everything is working properly.
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Jan 26, 2016 05:38
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DrPlump posted:This site is really good at explaining the mechanics in the series. Cue the armchair physicists
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Jan 26, 2016 06:40
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Fister Roboto posted:That's not really how space works. You almost never want to travel in a straight line in a gravity well, even when there's nothing in the way. Doing so means you're fighting against gravity the whole way. Of course, all I meant was that slingshotting around the sun is treacherous and kinda sucks.
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Jan 26, 2016 10:32
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Ahaha gently caress me it's Miller time
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Jan 27, 2016 04:57
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That was... pretty damned awesome 
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Jan 27, 2016 04:59
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A Good Episode. Julie looking properly gross and hosed up.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:10
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Oh poo poo, they're doing a two-hour season finale next week, lumping 9 and 10 together. This is the first I've heard of it.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:18
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10 episodes?! I wanted 22! This show is so loving good.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:43
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Philthy posted:10 episodes?! I wanted 22! That episode was great. Who caught the Han Solo, Lando Calrissian nod?
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Jan 27, 2016 05:56
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I love the little details in this show, like the news display on Miller's shuttle showing the time delay for Earth and Mars and the Belt being a live feed. Also that Space Mormon had a really good bit actor, another thing they've done well so far.
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Jan 27, 2016 05:58
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