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So my friend's 8 year old daughter is apparently TERRIFIED of THE ILLUMINATI and their mind control. And it's not just her, apparently the whole elementary school system of her age range is just full of gossip and fear mongering and making up stories about illuminati conspiracies. What weird loving times we live in. When I was 8 I was scared of people figuring out my pog hustling scam and the bottom falling out of the pog market.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:26
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Disinterested posted:Are we really writing off the fact that almost every society was still primarily non-urbanised in 1900 as 'superficial'. Mars landers are cool but they don't represent a meaningful change in daily lives. NASA didn't exist until 1958. The entirety of the space program has take place over a little less than 58 years. In that very short time, we have progressed from early satellites to landing people on the moon to firing spacecraft all around our solar system and getting detailed pictures of every planet. Those spacecraft (including Voyager 1, which has hit interstellar space!) are still transmitting today. This says nothing about the dense network of satellites in orbit around Earth today, gathering data used in all sorts of fields, from temperature data to topography, to soil moisture so that we can better understand our planet. On top of that, we have satellites in space that can triangulate your position to within feet and tell you where to go, and provide a global communication network while they're at it. So yes, the Mars landers do have a massive impact on your day to day life.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:27
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Someone brought from the past might keel over (I've imagined a medieval peasant gorging themselves in a supermarket until they accidentally drink something like dish detergent) - but pretty much everyone alive today even in the remotest places is aware of modern technology - they see airplanes and 'man walking on the moon' has become modern myth.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:27
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Baronjutter posted:So my friend's 8 year old daughter is apparently TERRIFIED of THE ILLUMINATI and their mind control. And it's not just her, apparently the whole elementary school system of her age range is just full of gossip and fear mongering and making up stories about illuminati conspiracies. kids are scared of dumb things. when i was 8 it was the height of 80's-90's interest in the paranormal and my biggest, most terrifying fear was being abducted by aliens the more interesting part is why specifically the illuminati has become a topic of schoolyard conversation at this particular school
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Jan 25, 2016 23:29
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Baronjutter posted:So my friend's 8 year old daughter is apparently TERRIFIED of THE ILLUMINATI and their mind control. And it's not just her, apparently the whole elementary school system of her age range is just full of gossip and fear mongering and making up stories about illuminati conspiracies. Is this Texas? Some kinda agenda 21 aftermath poo poo?
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Jan 25, 2016 23:31
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Dirk the Average posted:NASA didn't exist until 1958. The entirety of the space program has take place over a little less than 58 years. In that very short time, we have progressed from early satellites to landing people on the moon to firing spacecraft all around our solar system and getting detailed pictures of every planet. Those spacecraft (including Voyager 1, which has hit interstellar space!) are still transmitting today. It's still miniscule compared to the difference between being a peasant farmer in a village to an auto-worker in a factory in an industrial city. The real, experiential and structural things about peoples lives are much more about that than anything the space program has to offer.
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Jan 25, 2016 23:31
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Disinterested posted:It's still miniscule compared to the difference between being a peasant farmer in a village to an auto-worker in a factory in an industrial city. The real, experiential and structural things about peoples lives are much more about that than anything the space program has to offer. I strongly disagree. The world is more global now than ever before, with goods, people, ideas, and information flowing freely. We could be having this conversation from virtually anywhere in the world, and if one of us flew to another country right now, we could continue the conversation mid-flight (yet another way transportation has changed) and after landing. I can look up virtually the sum total of human knowledge, navigate to a place I have never been before (and see a street view of what it looks like!), talk to anyone in the world in real time, and I can do this virtually at will with a device that fits in my pocket. They, likewise, can respond with a device that fits in their pocket. I can get access to fresh food all year round. I can get access to food from almost any country/ethnicity within a half hour drive of where I live. I have a car and so do most other people, so a 20 mile distance isn't a big deal. Cars and computers are at the point where self-driving cars are a real goal that people are working towards. As an engineer, I can go from concept to having a model in my hands in a matter of hours. What used to take weeks or a very large staff of drafters and machinists, can be done by one person with some CAD software and a CNC mill or 3d printer. Medicine has made huge strides to the point where we are cutting down patient recovery times on heart surgery to a matter of hours instead of months. Plans are in the works for time-released precisely dosed medications that can last weeks or months. Implantable medical devices are possible at all. Surgeries are being performed remotely with cameras and catheters. All of these things have a huge impact on daily life. Technology is old and outdated after a few years. We are constantly innovating at a pace never before seen in human history. These things that I mentioned were the sort of thing you'd see in Star Trek, not actual projects people are working on. What I have written isn't an exhaustive list of even the fields I'm close to - there's just too much to cover. Everything from how we talk to how we get news to how we travel to how we eat to how we get treated if we're sick to how we get entertainment to how accessible the rest of the world is to how we work is changing. Constantly.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:04
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Dirk the Average posted:Of course, your medical recovery times would be measured in months and your odds of survival would be much lower. You'd also have much poorer diagnostic equipment and be less likely to get proper treatment. I'll take months of recovery and like 50% odds of survival over 0 recovery because you had shot and 0.01% chance of survival because a literal miracle happened any time. Like seriously I got this kidney disease going on which means I'll need a transplant shortly, and my aunt got her first kidney transplant back around 1975 and she's still alive today. That's pretty good odds as far as I see it. You know people have been saying your second paragraph since the 80s and the "within 10 years" part never changes."We'll have fusion figured out in the next 30 years" since 1950, anyone? I don't feel very optimistic about that poo poo actually happening in 10 years, even though it totally could. ToxicSlurpee posted:30 years ago if you got cancer you were hosed. I think you're confusing 30 for like 60 years there. Yeah if it's 1955 then there's very little chance to survive, but you bring things forward to the 70s and chances had gotten a lot higher, and in the 80s they were not the far off from today's survival rates. We got most of the early detection stuff figured out in the 60s and 70s. Dirk the Average posted:I strongly disagree. The world is more global now than ever before, with goods, people, ideas, and information flowing freely. I suggest you read about the world situation just before World War I. poo poo was interconnected as gently caress before Europe melted down like dipshits.
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Jan 26, 2016 00:35
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fishmech posted:You know people have been saying your second paragraph since the 80s and the "within 10 years" part never changes."We'll have fusion figured out in the next 30 years" since 1950, anyone? I don't feel very optimistic about that poo poo actually happening in 10 years, even though it totally could. I'm actually literally talking about developments within my industry that are happening right now. 10 years is about how long it takes to get some of that stuff to market and widespread use due to how tight regulatory controls on medical treatments are. fishmech posted:I suggest you read about the world situation just before World War I. poo poo was interconnected as gently caress before Europe melted down like dipshits. True, but not to the degree that we are now. I can collaborate with someone halfway across the world with only a bit more difficulty than someone who is within the same city.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:12
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You're still not talking about the stuff that peoples lives are really made of: what they believe, what they do with their time, how they make their living, where they live, how they provide for their basic needs. In 1900 running water in your house and electricity were luxuries, most people even in most rich industrial countries still lived predominantly in the countryside, almost everyone was profoundly and unflinchingly religious, illiteracy and ill-education were still rife outside of Western and Northern Europe, women were still largely removed from the workforce, empires still controlled everything. Even so, already a world historical event totally unprecedented had already happened as forces liberated people from subsistence living and pushed them in to economic specialization on a more than local scale. Everything was qualitatively different for the people of the world in a way it had never been before or after the advent of industrial capitalism. The revolutions of the late 20th century/early 21st have been primarily informational. That's a lot, but that isn't the same force for change in terms of how people are organised in relation to other people, and how their daily lives are structured that any good cross section of the years 1830-1950 saw. Disinterested fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 01:16
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Caconym posted:Young adults ITT blowing off the change that has happened in their lifetimes. Trying to quantify "change" or "progress" in this fashion is incredibly stupid and we're veering dangerously close to someone posting that "hole left by the Christian dark ages" chart unironically.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:22
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QuarkJets posted:You're kind of a weird dude. "Life changed more in this 80-year period than in this overlapping 80-year period that also includes the future"??? Do better. To the contrary, you cited something which has as much impact on my life as the Matt Damon movie. I agree that in abstract terms technological development has kept moving. A modern Intel processor is a more impressive technical feat than the moon landing and orders of magnitude more impressive than the Model T. But when we consider impact on day to day lives nothing compares with the advancements industrialization brought. And the last 5 decades or so just havn't changed as much in ways that matter as the 5 before that. Caveat: this is all in reference to the first world. A more sophisticated argument might note the impact modern technology has had on globalization and by extension, the impact that's had on spreading industrialization to the developed world.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:27
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you're right, my day to day existence is drastically different now what with the robotic exploration program. why just the other day i launched my own space crane to mars and Disinterested posted:Are we really writing off the fact that almost every society was still primarily non-urbanised in 1900 as 'superficial'. Mars landers are cool but they don't represent a meaningful change in daily lives. Again, I don't believe that looking at immediate impact to your personal life is a good way to gauge human technological advancement. You need to look at the technologies and capabilities that make that life possible.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:you're right, my day to day existence is drastically different now what with the robotic exploration program. why just the other day i launched my own space crane to mars and You work in SOFTWARE.  I work in IT, my entire career path wouldn't exist 40 years ago. poo poo, I now work mainly supporting iPads, which didn't exist until 5 years ago. This idea that the world hasn't changed as drastically in the last 50 years is absurd, there are entire fields of work that didn't exist and likewise there are entire fields of work that no longer exist.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:39
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QuarkJets posted:Again, I don't believe that looking at your personal life is a good way to gauge human technological advancement. You need to look at the technologies and capabilities that make that life possible. This seems like something of a non-sequitur to my post.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:39
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'The balance permanently demographically shifting in industrial countries from primarily agrarian/countryside to city/industrial seems like kind of a big deal compared to Mars landers, and not at all superficial' 'Hrm stop dragging your personal feelings in to this'.
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Jan 26, 2016 01:47
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Disinterested posted:'The balance permanently demographically shifting in industrial countries from primarily agrarian/countryside to city/industrial seems like kind of a big deal compared to Mars landers, and not at all superficial' Your posts (and PTD's posts) are all saying that things like the sky crane don't really have a huge direct impact on most people's lives, correct? That is what I'm addressing. I didn't say anything about feelings, I don't know how you misread that
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Jan 26, 2016 01:51
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QuarkJets posted:Your posts (and PTD's posts) are all saying that things like the sky crane don't really have a huge direct impact on most people's lives, correct? That is what I'm addressing. I didn't say anything about feelings, I don't know how you misread that My point is that compared to some very fundamental technologies and ideas and the accompanying structural change to society that came hand in hand with them that really comparing anything to industrialisation is a fools errand. Nothing the space program (say) has done has, for example, taken people away from subsistence agrarian life. Diversity of food is not as interesting as the abolition of famine. Improvement of surgical techniques is nothing compared to the elimination of widespread infant mortality and vast plagues. As it turns out our technological increases in a lot of areas actually have diminishing returns in improving our material lot. You could quantify this statistically in all sorts of ways that are relevant to the lives of all people: OK, you have x amount of processing power, but what is that compared to a sudden, rapid increase in life expectancy, height, etc. etc.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:00
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Dirk the Average posted:I'm actually literally talking about developments within my industry that are happening right now. 10 years is about how long it takes to get some of that stuff to market and widespread use due to how tight regulatory controls on medical treatments are. Maybe this time will be the 10 years that actually happens, but this stuff you're talking about has been "in the next 10 years" since before Reagan was in office. And the most important part is it ain't hospitals now. I would prefer they were already here tomorrow, because I'm due for major surgery either this year or the next. Realistically, so long as you were wealthy, you were pretty close to that point in early 1914, before things went to poo poo (especially since working with someone in your city but not in your office wasn't all that good!). In all seriousness the two world wars wrecked a lot of other forms of progress even though as they necessitated and caused many others.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:06
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The eighteenth century transition from muscle power to steam power is probably the most consequential event in human history since the agricultural revolution. It's gotten to the point that we're debating whether we've entered a new geological epoch because we're now altering basic geological conditions and processes with our machines. Nothing in the last fifty years is really comparable. And prior to the application of chemistry and electrical power to agriculture you needed most the planet to spend most of their waking hours farming. The "second industrial revolution" of the late 19th century. To find a comparably important communications technology you'd probably have to go back to the dawn of writing.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:09
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fishmech posted:Maybe this time will be the 10 years that actually happens, but this stuff you're talking about has been "in the next 10 years" since before Reagan was in office. And the most important part is it ain't hospitals now. I would prefer they were already here tomorrow, because I'm due for major surgery either this year or the next. As an example, transcatheter aortic heart valve replacement surgery was deployed in the US in the last few years. You can now get a replacement aortic valve via catheter, without requiring open heart surgery. My grandmother had a pacemaker implanted via catheter. Again, no open heart surgery. Stents are being deployed to clear blocked arteries via catheter. The progress we are making is pretty amazing. Surgeries on the abdomen aren't as high a priority simply because you don't have to break open the ribcage, but even then, laproscopic surgery is already a thing and is reducing incisions to very small 1-2cm openings. I'm not talking hypotheticals here. This is real progress that is happening right now.
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Jan 26, 2016 02:24
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Disinterested posted:Are we really writing off the fact that almost every society was still primarily non-urbanised in 1900 as 'superficial'. Mars landers are cool but they don't represent a meaningful change in daily lives. There was bad posting on SomethingAwful last night, and whitey's on the moon.
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Jan 26, 2016 03:08
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WampaLord posted:This idea that the world hasn't changed as drastically in the last 50 years is absurd, there are entire fields of work that didn't exist and likewise there are entire fields of work that no longer exist. It seems that this is what people are really reacting to strongly, that when I say "I think things changed more in the first half of the twentieth century than the last half" that people thing I am somehow, cryptically, saying "I don't think things changed in the last half of the twentieth century." This would be an incorrect interpretation of my statement, that things changed more rapidly around 1900 than they have since. So I think that might be the big flaw in your rebuttal, mostly that you don't understand my argument (that things changed more around the beginning of the last century than they did around the beginning of this century) (which is not the same as saying that there has been no technological progress for decades) ((seriously it's not even close to the same statement dude)) Dirk the Average posted:I'm not talking hypotheticals here. This is real progress that is happening right now. Maybe one day you'll find someone who actually thinks that no progress is happening today. Unfortunately, you have not found them in this thread. Keep questing and one day you may meet your foe, and Slay him. QuarkJets posted:Again, I don't believe that looking at immediate impact to your personal life is a good way to gauge human technological advancement. You need to look at the technologies and capabilities that make that life possible. I completely agree with this, and most of these technologies were invented in or prior to the first half of the 20th century (mechanized agriculture, telecommunications, modern medicine, electricity, petrochemicals, refrigeration, etc.) boner confessor fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jan 26, 2016 |
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Jan 26, 2016 03:29
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Maybe one day you'll find someone who actually thinks that no progress is happening today. Unfortunately, you have not found them in this thread. Keep questing and one day you may meet your foe, and Slay him. Maybe one day you'll actually learn to read, but I think the heat death of the universe might come first.
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Jan 26, 2016 04:38
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I completely agree with this, and most of these technologies were invented in or prior to the first half of the 20th century (mechanized agriculture, telecommunications, modern medicine, electricity, petrochemicals, refrigeration, etc.) Every single one of those fields is advancing faster today than in 1950. You're hand-waving away things like genetic modification and medical marvels that people in 1950 couldn't even imagine. We can create new breeds of plants nearly at will, like some sort of loving deity. That's just incredible, and nothing in the first-half of the 20th century even comes close to the possibilities unlocked by this kind of technology. By your logic, the sum of human knowledge available in an instant, whenever you want, wherever you are, is less of an advancement than the transistor radio. Is that really your argument?
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Jan 26, 2016 07:11
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QuarkJets posted:By your logic, the sum of human knowledge available in an instant, whenever you want, wherever you are, is less of an advancement than the transistor radio. Is that really your argument? You keep switching back and forth. Are we looking at the foundations of modern life or are we looking at individual technologies and systems which, while cool, aren't as fundamental to contemporary life as older systems? Make up your mind. Also, please don't just get mad like I slapped the internet across the face or something. Nobody's impressed if you white knight the modern world, please actually make a point as to why instant entertainment is more important than sanitation.
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Jan 26, 2016 07:31
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But with progress, there is also loss. Few people today can make a proper confit to preserve their meat, shoe a horse, or tie a Jack ketch knot. These were all commonplace skills in your average American sundown town of yesteryear and things like that have more impact on day to day life than some asteroid.
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Jan 26, 2016 07:44
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fishmech posted:Maybe this time will be the 10 years that actually happens, but this stuff you're talking about has been "in the next 10 years" since before Reagan was in office. And the most important part is it ain't hospitals now. I would prefer they were already here tomorrow, because I'm due for major surgery either this year or the next. Yeah and if we're talking about revolutions in medicine nothing really compares to discovering how to prevent sepsis. That's revolutionary.
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Jan 26, 2016 08:02
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You keep switching back and forth. Are we looking at the foundations of modern life or are we looking at individual technologies and systems which, while cool, aren't as fundamental to contemporary life as older systems? Make up your mind. I keep telling you that they're indicative of the same thing: the overall progress that mankind has achieved. I've been consistent in pointing that out, just as you've been consistent in poo-pooing modern advancements without really giving a reason and just as you've been consistent at expressing mock indignation over the whole discussion when people keep replying to you with a tone that is perplexed, not angry. quote:Also, please don't just get mad like I slapped the internet across the face or something. Nobody's impressed if you white knight the modern world, please actually make a point as to why instant entertainment is more important than sanitation. Calm down dude, I never thought that you did or said that you did. No one thinks that you're attacking the Internet, and I really wouldn't care even if you did. I'm not "white knighting" the modern world, I just find your willful ignorance over the current rate of technological advancement to be baffling. You also keep making really nonsensical assertions. Case in point, good sanitation is definitely one of the most important features of a successful civilization, but that's something that we've been able to do well for millenia. Indoor plumbing and effective sewage management are hallmarks of many ancient civilizations, and Crete even has a 4000 year-old flush toilet. Using sanitation as a measure of a post-Industrial civilization's technological progress makes very little sense. Remember, we're talking about whether technology has advanced more post-1950 than in 1900-1950; when you start talking about sanitation like it's a thing that didn't exist until the early 1900s then it just reveals that you don't actually know what you're talking about.
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Jan 26, 2016 08:45
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Shbobdb posted:But with progress, there is also loss. Few people today can make a proper confit to preserve their meat, shoe a horse, or tie a Jack ketch knot. These were all commonplace skills in your average American sundown town of yesteryear and things like that have more impact on day to day life than some asteroid. I love your posts so much, "some asteroid" is my new favorite way to describe Mars
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Jan 26, 2016 08:49
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So, in TYOOL 2016, apparently some people still think the earth is flat and that the 'globe theory' is a Masonic conspiracy.quote:Bobby Ray Simmons Jr, better known as BoB, American rapper and music producer, believes that the Earth is flat, according to recent tweets from his account.
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Jan 26, 2016 11:39
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Are we sure organizations like the Flat Earth Society aren't just a joke? Please tell me it's just some elaborate troll. Please.
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Jan 26, 2016 13:11
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Raxivace posted:Are we sure organizations like the Flat Earth Society aren't just a joke? I linked a video of a flat-Earther calling another conspiracy nut's show (but not flat-Earther) a couple of months ago, it was interesting to me because they actually explored why he believed it. At least for that guy it was really a kind of existential thing, if the Earth is flat, then it's created and has a purpose, and therefore he has a purpose. Somehow he accepts the rational argument that if the Earth is just one planet out of billions of billions in this galaxy alone, it isn't special and there's probably life elsewhere, but throws rationality completely out the window when it comes to counterarguments to the flath Earth "theory". He believes in what would probably be the biggest conspiracy ever, involving millions of people, including all pilots, architects and engineers. I don't remember him having an answer to "what would they gain from it?" though. Ed: Found the video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsOz_J6tJVU
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Jan 26, 2016 13:58
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Helen Highwater posted:So, in TYOOL 2016, apparently some people still think the earth is flat and that the 'globe theory' is a Masonic conspiracy. But... distant cities are hidden from view due to the curvature.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:01
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Dirk the Average posted:As an example, transcatheter aortic heart valve replacement surgery was deployed in the US in the last few years. You can now get a replacement aortic valve via catheter, without requiring open heart surgery. My grandmother had a pacemaker implanted via catheter. Again, no open heart surgery. Stents are being deployed to clear blocked arteries via catheter. The progress we are making is pretty amazing. Uh huh. My father in law was literally saved by interventional radiology a few weeks ago after a massive heart attack. But, and this is really simple, it turns out saving 63 year olds from sudden heart attacks has less impact on human health and day-to-day life in general than basic sanitation, vaccines and antibiotics that were all invented in the first half of the 20th century. This topic is interesting because it's a basic piece of intellectual literacy in my opinion to understand that yes technology is still advancing at a rapid pace but to understand that the positive impact of that technology on human life has been waning (and to grasp the place industrialization has in history). And, to take this in a more political direction, a lot of people mistakenly lump some of this slowdown into the economic or political category when it's actually just a basic case of technological diminishing returns.
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Jan 26, 2016 14:28
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The Larch posted:But... distant cities are hidden from view due to the curvature. That's just what they want you to believe. Who do you trust, BoB or your own lying eyes?
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Jan 26, 2016 15:10
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Baronjutter posted:So my friend's 8 year old daughter is apparently TERRIFIED of THE ILLUMINATI and their mind control. And it's not just her, apparently the whole elementary school system of her age range is just full of gossip and fear mongering and making up stories about illuminati conspiracies. The Illuminati is just the pog empire in modern times Instead of pogs you now have disney stars, music stars, celebrities, all under the thumb that used to slam pogs. Don't you think it's fishy that the American Military used pogs as a currency in Iraq?
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Jan 26, 2016 16:32
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Helen Highwater posted:So, in TYOOL 2016, apparently some people still think the earth is flat and that the 'globe theory' is a Masonic conspiracy. Flat earthers might be the worst of all the conspiracies. Like if the earth's flat why can't you use a high powered telescope to look in the distance and see NYC from London and how do they explain the day/night cycle or multiple other things children learn in elementary science classes? You can also see the earth's curvature from tall enough locations such as Pike's Peak.
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Jan 26, 2016 16:35
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So I've done this before in this thread, but not for quite some time. I am a former hardcore conspiracy theorist that spent 5 years in the deep end. I listened to Alex Jones every day, watched basically every conspiracy documentary that was published between 2006 through 2012. I was even into the whole Reptilian Aliens thing and saw David Icke at his infamous Cleveland appearance where he and Jessica Ventura got into a massive pissy slapfight. (My first account here was Truckin A Man and I shot my crazy conspiracy bullshit all over D&D back during the first Ron Paul revolution.) I would be more than happy to answer any questions about my time as a hardcore loony and if you but specify a desired variety I can point you all towards some of the finest lunacy to be found within the movement. (Truly a gourmet's pick of sweet nuttiness.)
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Jan 26, 2016 16:58
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Prester Jane posted:So I've done this before in this thread, but not for quite some time. I am a former hardcore conspiracy theorist that spent 5 years in the deep end. I listened to Alex Jones every day, watched basically every conspiracy documentary that was published between 2006 through 2012. I was even into the whole Reptilian Aliens thing and saw David Icke at his infamous Cleveland appearance where he and Jessica Ventura got into a massive pissy slapfight. (My first account here was Truckin A Man and I shot my crazy conspiracy bullshit all over D&D back during the first Ron Paul revolution.) Well, what got you out?
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Jan 26, 2016 17:00
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