Uncle Chesty's School for Wayward Boys

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Uncle Chesty's School for Wayward Boys

MaxPowers: Dec 29, 2004

The aviator dudes I worked with said most of their flying was 90% paperwork and 10% actually flying. They liked to be on the ground side being a FAC. This of course was durring war time so, god only knows what peace time air corps is. God have mercy on your soul.

You wanna fly? Join the airforce at least it'll be a legit job.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 04:20

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 19:37

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

Fergus posted:

I want to join the Marines because I want to be a Naval Aviator.
Now, I could do that in the Navy, too.
But from what I've heard about the Marines, you are an infantryman before anything else. This would imply learning certain skills that other branches don't, for the most part.
On top of being a Naval Aviator, I would like to learn the skills necessary to be an infantryman, I can't really explain why but it's something that is appealing to me.
The Marines is the only place (that I currently know of) where I could learn both.

I entirely get where you guys are coming from, I can't even begin to imagine the bureaucratic hell that the Marines is.
But the negatives, however many there are, seem worth what I would get out of it on a personal level.

None of this is going to happen. You'll go through a generic course of training, learn some incredibly perishable skills that don't even conform to actual doctrine anymore, but they have to teach you that way because it takes fooooreeeeveeeeer to update training curriculum, and then never do anything involving infantry skills again.

Like, an example from my (enlisted) career field. Sigint Marines have the option of trying out for radio recon. You go through the entire force recon pipeline, but before that, you have to go through what used to be called the Radio Recon Indoc Program (I don't remember it's current name but it's the same thing). In addition to being a screening/train up thing, you also get retaught all of the basic infantry skills like how to do a patrol and how to ruck. All things you learn at MCT when you first join, but even if you go straight into radio recon as soon as you hit the fleet, your pipeline can still be up to 2.5 years if you're a Cat 4 linguist. 2 years without even touching an M-16 or even being stationed on a Marine Corps base.

Sure, you'll get the training, but good luck maintaining those incredibly perishable skills when it's literally the least important part of your job description imaginable.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 04:21

Fergus: Apr 24, 2013

I'm kind of dumbfounded now, you guys all have great points that I can't really argue with.
Now I'm curious though, is this stuff you guys knew before enlisting/commissioning, and thought nothing of it, or is it stuff you didn't discover until it was too late?
I'd be interested in hearing.

Edit: at the risk of sounding pathetic, what would you guys say is the caliber of friends that you've made in the military? Better/worse than in civilian life?

Fergus fucked around with this message at 05:22 on Jan 26, 2016

# ? Jan 26, 2016 04:54

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

Some of it I knew, some of it I didn't. This applies equally to both the good and the bad parts.

I enlisted when I was a few semesters from finishing my BA. I got to the point where I could continue, try to finish as quickly as possible to beat the commission age limit, and pile up a mountain of student loan debt; or enlist, finish my degree, and not have any debt. Admittedly, I enlisted in the linguist program, so I've now got 40-something credits in a difficult language on top of my preexisting college credits.

I've been telling you the negatives here because a lot of people aren't going to tell you them. Either they're some official person like a recruiter or a kool-aid drinker that thinks serving Corps and Country is the best thing anybody could ever do and, or they're victim to an institutional cowardice where everybody is afraid of being the guy that complains about the actual things that suck and are wrong. Sure, everybody will complain about sleeping in cold mud and eating MREs all the time, or how much rucks suck, but most Marines are terrified of being the guy that complains about an NCO being an unprofessional rear end or how base policies at a schoolhouse command don't make sense. "It couldn't possibly be changed before you leave, why bother complaining?" is something I've been told a lot.

Admittedly, a lot of this applies more to the enlisted side than the officer side. You won't have to deal with quite as much head-patting as enlisted do. You probably won't deal with as much "it's just a schoolhouse command, it'll be different in the fleet" when it comes to stuff like stupid liberty policies.

I've also got sleep issues now and some radical anxiety problems sometimes, and I've never even deployed or any of the other things that can really mess people up. That's all just from the awful stressfest that is a 60 week long intensive language course.

On the other hand, the Corps has been an opportunity for all sorts of stuff they won't tell you about. I've made some of the closest bonds with people in my entire life. Again, I don't know how applicable this is to the officer side, but a lot of people that enlist in the Corps at an "older" age (past the just out of high school stage) are damaged goods. I was one, some of my nearest and dearest friends are. I've essentially replaced an awful family with my fellow Marines. As much as I hate the Corps as an organization, I love my fellow Marines and would do almost anything for many of them.

Can you find this sort of thing elsewhere? Of course. This just happens to be where I've found it.

I hope this helps you make a decision. I'm not trying to talk you out of joining. I'm trying to help you make the decision knowing as much as you can. For some people, joining is the right thing to do. For most, it's definitely not.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 05:24

Fergus: Apr 24, 2013

Believe me, I am extremely grateful. I've spoke to jingoistic Marines who say the Corps can't do wrong. I've also spoke to people who at their center hated their time in the Marines and actually based their life around being anti-military.
I know it seems like I've been neglecting your guys' information etc, that's not the case at all. I respect all of you for what you've done and do, and I take what you say with great merit. I've still got 3 1/2 years to decide if this is something I want to do or not.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 05:35

Kung Fu Fist Fuck: Aug 9, 2009

go read jarhead. then realize its pretty much exactly the truth in spite of all the motards making GBS threads on it, barring some of the poo poo where hes talking about how cool and tough he is or how big his dick is

not for some airwing noble oval office i guess, but as far as my experience it was surprisingly accurate

# ? Jan 26, 2016 05:46

Comfortably Numb: Dec 31, 2004

Internet Wizard posted:

The military in general, and the Corps in particular, is the sort of organization where the people that shouldn't have been allowed to join in the first place stay in for as long as they can, and make the entire culture as hostile to those under them as they can to force out the sort of people that should stay in. You'll find some exceptions, but not enough. So many of the people that will be in charge of you will treat you like a moron because they were treated like a moron, so of course that's the proper way to treat people.

This is so spot on.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 07:23

Hekk: Oct 12, 2012; 'smeper fi

It's a trendy thing in GiP to have dick measuring contests about how terrible your enlistment was compared to everyone elses terrible enlistments because we all had mean corporals who didn't care about us. As soon as one person mentions how bad an idea the military is, it's dogpile time so we can beat a dead horse. It's hit or miss wherever you go but there are some good folks around.

I've been doing this for 16 years and if I could turn back time and start over again, I'd still probably enlist. Why? Because my friends were all losers and getting killed or locked up and I was on the fast track to nowhere. That's just it though. I was a poor who had lovely grades in high school and didn't have many options looking me in the eye. I stuck around long enough to not have to deal with most of the bullshit and spend my time trying to make life a little less terrible for those who work for me.

You think that the military is full of patriotic souls who care about defending freedoms and stuff because that's what the Marines spend tons of money on making you believe. Really though it's much more like The Night's Watch (you watch Game of Thrones don't you? Of course you do, you are like 19 or something). Which means it's full of folks who probably wouldn't be productive members of society if they didn't have the safety net the military provides. Can that dude still turn a wrench on a HMMWV? Sure. But don't expect him to be able to figure how not to spend his paycheck on strippers and booze on payday weekend while his wife calls you on Monday saying she and the baby have nothing to eat.

You want to be an officer which is a better idea than enlisting. However, what everyone is trying to tell you is that if you have a plan for college already, you don't need the military. The only thing the Marines will give you is bragging rights and the chance to kill browns. The war is over so you won't have a chance at killing anyone. In fact, if you somehow managed to become a pilot, you stand a chance at getting killed in training accidents since we seem like we like to fly helicopters into each other more than anyone else does.

The Navy and Air Force both have better options for flying things. The Army has better helicopter pilots and most of those are warrant officers. The Marine Corps is poor because the only money we get is from the Navy's slice of the pie and they care a lot more about their ships.

All we have is our name and some old rear end gear no one else uses anymore. You might be able to score an extra drink or two somewhere away from a military base by telling folks you are a Marine. Outside of that, there is nothing the Marine Corps can offer that you can't get elsewhere for less hassle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5kxiJYJNVA&t=157s

Hekk fucked around with this message at 08:01 on Jan 26, 2016

# ? Jan 26, 2016 07:47

Booblord Zagats: Oct 30, 2011; Pork Pro

Fergus posted:

Completing college and getting my aerospace engineering degree.
Then probably finding a job in the aerospace industry.

I could actually get a scholarship with Navy ROTC too, which would be really nice.
I don't know, I'm going to go so see an OSO for each branch before I decide anything, but I've been heavily leaning Marines.

Ok, I got my brother sitting across from me at the office and showed him your situation and he's written out a response for you.

quote:

The Marine Corps is fun for the first few weeks, then you go to OCS and realize that, as a pilot, everyone thinks you're a piece of poo poo, which you are, but it would be nice if they were polite enough to at least try and keep the facade alive for a few days. OCS is just gonna be a lot of running, a little shooting and a moderate amount of pull ups and sit ups. There's some scholastic poo poo but I suspect that's just there to make sure you actually learned to write in college because I've seen guys going in for infantry crank out reports that read like a Down Syndrome child's love letter to his grandpa's shotgun and no one bats an eye because they filled out the top part of the form correctly.

TBS is just a competition to see who can be the least hosed up land-nav commando and gently caress up your body enough to maybe cost you your flight slot. You will remember nothing else about it after the 2nd week of flight school. If it's anything like it was in the late 90s, the people running Pensacola will throw all the Marines to the shittiest instructors they have. I had been flying since I was 15 and had an aviation degree, my first flight instructor had nearly 200 less flight hours than I did and seemed genuinely afraid of stalls. You will notice at this time all the Navy and Coastie pilots training there seem much happier and more relaxed, not to mention better dressed. You will realize how a crew cut is just the Marine's version of birth control, but it only works against women who've graduated the 8th grade, it will be a mating call for the rest. If you're smart, you'll hang out more with Coast Guard trainees than anyone else, they have the best study habits and can actually shut the gently caress up about flight school when they're outside the base.

Also, as a fun fact, 90% of Marine officers are massive loving tools who wanna be GI Joe in all aspects of their lives, so making friends who won't yell poo poo like "Devil Dog" when they see you and your SO at a restaurant is tricky.

When you get to do FAC poo poo, just worry about radio poo poo and try not to get involved with the day to day poo poo of the infantry/armor/etc unit you're with. I got stuck being a defacto platoon leader during my FAC time pre-911 due to how hard up they were for Jr. officers thanks to some political poo poo and my first day I grabbed the platoon sgt and explained to him I couldn't really comprehend anything outside of the 2 and a half year cram session that had been Pensacola, Kings and Cherry Point, so if he could just let me know when PT was and where to stand, I'd just shut up until a real paltoon leader showed up and make coffee before he got in. Dude literally gave me a hug and told me that he hoped I made 4 stars.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 14:27

Time Crisis Actor: Apr 28, 2002; by Hand Knit

If your life is already good, don't join the Marine Corps. Even if it's merely tolerable, don't join. I joined because I was a terrible piece of poo poo when I was a kid. Really fat and terribly lazy. I joined, got un-fat, was still lazy, did The Wars a few times which was cool I guess. Somewhere along the line I finally grew and realized what a shithead I had been, and starting taking some real responsibility. I re-enlisted in Iraq when the bonuses were huge and got to go to a unit out of Miramar, where I did a few more funtime deployments. Because I wasn't a total idiot, the command left me alone and I was able to do pretty much whatever I wanted. That was a pretty rad way to spend the last few years of an enlistment. Now because of those experiences I go to a good school which I NEVER would have had a shot at if I hadn't joined. All in all it was a pretty good experience. Given the chance I would totally go back and enlist again.

Well, that's my story hope you enjoyed :tipshat:

# ? Jan 26, 2016 15:42

Anita Dickinme: Jan 24, 2013; Grimey Drawer

Nostalgia4Ass posted:

The Navy and Air Force both have better options for flying things. The Army has better helicopter pilots and most of those are warrant officers. The Marine Corps is poor because the only money we get is from the Navy's slice of the pie and they care a lot more about their ships.

This. I work on the catapults on an aircraft carrier and I'm always terrified shooting Marine aircraft off because they look like they're just going to collapse on itself.

Nostalgia4Ass posted:

All we have is our name and some old rear end gear no one else uses anymore. You might be able to score an extra drink or two somewhere away from a military base by telling folks you are a Marine. Outside of that, there is nothing the Marine Corps can offer that you can't get elsewhere for less hassle.

You also get this for being in the Army/Navy, not sure about the Air Force so it's however much you'll care about drinking in the future.

Anita Dickinme fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jan 26, 2016

# ? Jan 26, 2016 17:00

red19fire: May 26, 2010

EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

you're retarded please enlist open contract for six years

How could you wish this on another human being? you monster.

# ? Jan 26, 2016 20:36

Bolow: Feb 27, 2007

Anita Dickinme posted:

This. I work on the catapults on an aircraft carrier and I'm always terrified shooting Marine aircraft off because they look like they're just going to collapse on itself.

lol Marine F-18's are like twice as old as the poor gently caress flying them

# ? Jan 26, 2016 21:00

Victor Vermis: Dec 21, 2004; WOKE UP IN THE DESERT AGAIN

EVA BRAUN BLOWJOBS posted:

Get a 4.0 at community college then transfer to a decent state school to finish your BS. Spend your summers doing meaningful internships in your field instead of wasting it doing dumb split op training. Go to private school for post-grad and get a company to pay for it. Do not join the military. You will be much wealthier and happier ten years from now.

Nobody in corporate or industry gives a poo poo if you've seen combat or even served. Infantry skills are worthless in the civ world.

fag

# ? Jan 27, 2016 04:10

Booblord Zagats: Oct 30, 2011; Pork Pro

Bolow posted:

lol Marine F-18's are like twice as old as the poor gently caress flying them

Still, they're lightyears safer than Harriers and 46s

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:00

overdesigned: Apr 10, 2003; We are compassion...; Lipstick Apathy

We have like, two squadrons total of Hornets that won't turn into a rapidly expanding puff of rust, turbine blades, and vaporized fuel if they take a catapult shot. All the rest are held together with tape.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:21

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

there's always the f-35

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:40

Nostalgia4Dogges: Jun 18, 2004; Only emojis can express my pure, simple stupidity.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:51

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

We were going through some old CD-Rs we found the other day and found a powerpoint about the rising cyber-threat posed by video games. Most of the powerpoint was spent explaining how MMO currencies could be used to launder money and pass communications, but there was a slide towards the end about how games could be used to train fighters and gain intel on American capabilities, and specifically listed Battlefield 3 as a potential security concern because people could use it to learn American weapon systems somehow.

The F-35 was the worst jet in that game.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:54

Mike-o: Dec 25, 2004; Now I'm in your room
And I'm in your bed; Grimey Drawer

lasers and load bearing drywall, lasers and load bearing drywall, lasers and load bearing drywall

# ? Jan 27, 2016 15:56

Bolow: Feb 27, 2007

Booblord Zagats posted:

Still, they're lightyears safer than Harriers and 46s

man every harrier mechanic i ever met was the jaded, bitter motherfucker, even more so than your average mechanic. also being around them on the flight line when they're spooling up is like getting hosed in the ear by a dental drill

# ? Jan 27, 2016 18:26

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Mike-o posted:

lasers and load bearing drywall, lasers and load bearing drywall, lasers and load bearing drywall

Sorry, it takes a $20 minimum donation to his kickstarter for that to work.

# ? Jan 27, 2016 19:02

Booblord Zagats: Oct 30, 2011; Pork Pro

Bolow posted:

man every harrier mechanic i ever met was the jaded, bitter motherfucker, even more so than your average mechanic. also being around them on the flight line when they're spooling up is like getting hosed in the ear by a dental drill

Harrier pilots are much the same from my experience, with a vocal minority that love their little death trap due to what I assume is cognitive dissonance

# ? Jan 27, 2016 21:39

Comfortably Numb: Dec 31, 2004

happy 4th year as lance to me and lol still in

# ? Feb 2, 2016 04:23

vains: May 26, 2004; A Big Ten institution offering distance education catering to adult learners

whats your excuse?

# ? Feb 3, 2016 02:44

Comfortably Numb: Dec 31, 2004

MassivelyBuckNegro posted:

whats your excuse?

Bunch of reasons, Mainly no range since '12

Comfortably Numb fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Feb 3, 2016

# ? Feb 3, 2016 02:56

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

And I thought it was bad I hadn't had one since '13

# ? Feb 3, 2016 04:56

Victor Vermis: Dec 21, 2004; WOKE UP IN THE DESERT AGAIN

Comfortably Numb posted:

Bunch of reasons, Mainly no range since '12

# ? Feb 3, 2016 17:59

PookBear: Nov 1, 2008

Yeah I'm gonna call bullshit on 4 year lance totally not being your fault.

# ? Feb 3, 2016 18:50

Booblord Zagats: Oct 30, 2011; Pork Pro

Reverand maynard posted:

Yeah I'm gonna call bullshit on 4 year lance totally not being your fault.

Depends on the MOS, maybe?

# ? Feb 3, 2016 18:52

MrMojok: Jan 28, 2011

I was a LCPL for 38 months. I had good pro/con, 1st class PFT, expert rifle range but the cutting score was very high because there were a lot of E4s ahead of me in my MOS. It was hosed.

This was in the late 80s-early 90s though.

# ? Feb 3, 2016 19:19

Bolow: Feb 27, 2007

Reverand maynard posted:

Yeah I'm gonna call bullshit on 4 year lance totally not being your fault.

I EAS'd with like a 1750 cutting score as a Lance, we had some dude pick up Sergeant with like a 2100. My MOS finally did start promoting again after like 60% of the people either lat moved or just got the gently caress out which was around the time I got the gently caress out.

# ? Feb 3, 2016 20:14

Internet Wizard: Aug 9, 2009; BANDAIDS DON'T FIX BULLET HOLES

What the hell is your cutting score if you're a 4-year lance?

My MOS is up there but even then I'm looking at getting it after being a lance for about 2.5 maybe 3 years

# ? Feb 3, 2016 21:32

Comfortably Numb: Dec 31, 2004

Reverand maynard posted:

Yeah I'm gonna call bullshit on 4 year lance totally not being your fault.

I have Avg. pro/cons. 1st class pft/cft. All reqs done, had the points, with a 1 time extra 100 points from sec. mos and that month it was closed out, was about 2 years and some change ago. Also 03 mos. Now pending med sep. So now one really wants to bother dealing with me.

# ? Feb 3, 2016 22:27