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Nosre posted:Nice, thanks! So each family, ideally, should have a bit more than 6? 8-10, maybe, so 40-50 total coastal provinces available per republic vassal? roughly, but merchant republics ai families will really just build wherever the hell they want. you can have a vassal republic in sweden with a family that's got 2 or 3 random trade posts in southern spain. you get paid no matter what. you could probably get away with a second republic there, and if you plan on controlling all of india, i'd definitely have at least two there. there's always space to the east they can build away at.
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Jan 27, 2016 11:41
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Yeah, they're amateurs. Evrerybody knows that you're supposed to just add it non-chalantly into your massive total conversion mod, like with Game of Thrones and Birthright. Birthright? Someone's porting The Gorgon's Alliance?
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Jan 27, 2016 12:02
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Bloodly posted:Birthright? Someone's porting The Gorgon's Alliance? Holy crap!  It's the worst best game you never played!
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Jan 27, 2016 12:07
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I got this game at the weekend along with Old Gods and Way of Life. I have spent virtually every spare waking moment playing this thing and I cant get enough. Whats the next expansion I should get?
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Jan 27, 2016 15:30
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Zero Gravitas posted:I got this game at the weekend along with Old Gods and Way of Life. I have spent virtually every spare waking moment playing this thing and I cant get enough. Whats the next expansion I should get? Depends. You already have the two best DLCs in my opinion. Legacy of Rome is the usual advice, since retinues are such a core military feature. It also makes it more interesting to play in the Byzantine Empire. If you want to play something different, there's always The Republic, Sword of Islam or Horse Lords. Merchant republics and nomads, and to a lesser extend Muslims, differ quite a bit in their gameplay from the usual feudal realms. If you want more features when you play Catholics, Sons of Abraham is your bet. It also improves Muslim gameplay, and unlocks Jews.
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Jan 27, 2016 15:37
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I haven't actually ever converted outside of patiently waiting for a cathar heretic to be my bud, so...do you have to get holy warred or something for that option, even if it your lord is a different religion? I was having the caliph or his wives educate my kids for conversion from zoroastrian but he was still a dick* and tried to take away my title in the middle of 3 other wars and his whole empire promptly fell apart when I decided to resist. Any pro tips on quick conversion in this situation? I just wanted to try playing as one of the zoroastrians whos part of the muslim empire, maybe convert to islam and do the whole "mwahah I was zorro all along!" thing after I got secure in my position. I gobbled up a bunch of tiny little guys south to where I like to put a republic to dump excess kids into, and I guess I'll have to crack the nut of weird hindu nations to the east to get some holy sites while the sunni and shia do their thing to each other. *To think I was his marshal and personally bankrolled the initial resistance in northeast with mercs, smh. I think I have some of his granddaughters handed off to my counts now.
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Jan 27, 2016 20:57
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Synnr posted:I haven't actually ever converted outside of patiently waiting for a cathar heretic to be my bud, so...do you have to get holy warred or something for that option, even if it your lord is a different religion? I was having the caliph or his wives educate my kids for conversion from zoroastrian but he was still a dick* and tried to take away my title in the middle of 3 other wars and his whole empire promptly fell apart when I decided to resist. Any pro tips on quick conversion in this situation? You can convert to the religion of your capital if you have Rajas of India. Make a Sunni province your capital and convert this way. You also need 1000 prestige.
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Jan 27, 2016 21:17
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Ok in preparation of the new DLC I started an Old Gods game, as the Duke of Spoleto because I did want to be powerful but not a king just yet. Little did I know, two years into the game a faction succeeds in pressing Elective on the Kingdom of Italy, so I'm asked to vote on a successor. Why not me? Not two weeks later, King Louis dies in battle against Lotharingia and since 3 other blokes supported me, I am now King of Italy  I literally did nothing but get married, bang my sweet wife to get a heir, assign my councilors and choose the Intrigue focus.It's a very nice departure from the usual "liege hates you and imprisons you immediately" that most vassal starts have been for me, but it's actually sapped my will to keep playing for the night... 
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Jan 27, 2016 21:19
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If you think that's -worthy, thanks to medium crown authority and a lust for Catholic lands my Viking vassals conquered the entirety of the British Isles in the span of maybe 60 years, giving me enough to form the empire without ever personally going to war. They've also pushed into Poland, Frisia, Lotharingia, and Lithuania. My empire is sprawling into an uncontrollable mess thanks to their conquests. I'm considering destroying the Empire of Britannia title and granting all my viceroys there the title for reals and granting them independence. Only complicating factor is a lot of them still hold land in Norway and Denmark.
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Jan 27, 2016 21:37
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Groogy posted:Yeah I'm banning that poo poo so hard when I get home FYI, the Torture+ mod also allows you to rape prisoners and even comes with a nifty "rapist" trait and a "defiled" trait for the aggrieved women that subtracts from their health and has them die from being raped to death!
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Jan 27, 2016 21:40
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Gods, why do grogs also have to be such loving creeps. To change the subject completely, remind me again, was it better to stack a bunch of trade posts in a single ocean area or try and string a bunch of ocean areas together?
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Jan 27, 2016 21:48
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nutranurse posted:FYI, the Torture+ mod also allows you to rape prisoners and even comes with a nifty "rapist" trait and a "defiled" trait for the aggrieved women that subtracts from their health and has them die from being raped to death! poo poo like this is why I like to play most games vanilla. Even otherwise good mods often have horrible poo poo like this shoehorned in. Deceitful Penguin posted:Gods, why do grogs also have to be such loving creeps. I only stick enough TPs into a given section to have control of it then I move to the next one. I usually pick a target I wanna reach. For instance, with Venice I always stretch out to Egypt to eventually seize control of the silk road port there. Antioch is another good goal for European republic silk road ambitions. Honky Dong Country fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 21:48
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Honky Dong Country posted:poo poo like this is why I like to play most games vanilla. Even otherwise good mods often have horrible poo poo like this shoehorned in. Yup. I hate clicking through a bunch of mods in the launcher, so I usually just merge all my mods manually (and also force compatibility sometimes that way too) into one Master Mod. Poking around the torture+ mod files I found those wonderful tidbits and promptly deleted it in disgust cause wtf man, what? Why?
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Jan 27, 2016 21:50
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Torrannor posted:You can convert to the religion of your capital if you have Rajas of India. Make a Sunni province your capital and convert this way. You also need 1000 prestige. Is it one of those weird things that doesn't show up in intrigue until you meet the requirements?
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Jan 27, 2016 21:52
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Synnr posted:Is it one of those weird things that doesn't show up in intrigue until you meet the requirements? Yes and no. It will show up only if your cap is a different religion but it will do so even if you don't have the required prestige. It'll also still show up if you're Zealous and can't actually do it.
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Jan 27, 2016 21:54
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Clanpot Shake posted:If you think that's That's something. I know my situation isn't that outlandish but being gifted a kingdom at 20 years old, without even having to do anything kinda startled me. Anyways there's always a catch, my wife turned out to be a cheating whore so I threw her in the oubliette and divorced, now I have to lose even more prestige to keep eugenics going 
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Jan 27, 2016 22:02
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Gods, why do grogs also have to be such loving creeps. The number of posts within a trade zone adds a multiplier to all trade posts in that zone, so each new post in a pre-existing zone not only gives you the income from the new post, but boosts the income of all the others as well. I don't think there's any specific advantage to stacking them all in a single ocean tile, just so long as you have more there than the other families so you get the control required for the multiplier bonus to count. Although if you've got some other bonus within an ocean tile (eg. A Silk Road node, or being directly connected to the capital), then naturally it makes sense to build as many trade posts in that tile as possible.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:09
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The Cheshire Cat posted:The number of posts within a trade zone adds a multiplier to all trade posts in that zone, so each new post in a pre-existing zone not only gives you the income from the new post, but boosts the income of all the others as well.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:19
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Deceitful Penguin posted:So I should try and build on all the italian cities around Venice rather than try and snake down the coastline towards Constantinople? it depends if venice has a connected to capital bonus. if you can control venice and have a direct line of adjacent posts south east along the coast, that would give you the most income, as all of your posts would have a trade zone bonus as well as a connected to capital bonus. if other merchant families are blocking you from doing this, or you can't (i'm pretty sure that in order to get the connected to capital bonus, the posts have to have a land connection to the capital), then your next objective would be to build the biggest trade zone possible. so build just enough trade posts to control the trade zone (if there's 5 counties in a sea, build 3 trade posts), then move on to the next adjacent sea. if you get blocked later on or run out of coastline, which shouldn't be an issue for venice but all the same, then go back and fill in some of the empty spaces within your trade zone. when you've got 30+ trade posts all within one connected trade zone, you'll be making stupid money.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:35
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Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for playing as a republic? I have like 300 hours playing everything but republics and I still have no idea how they work or what I am supposed to be doing.
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Jan 27, 2016 22:45
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Monopthalmus posted:Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for playing as a republic? I have like 300 hours playing everything but republics and I still have no idea how they work or what I am supposed to be doing. There's a good one in the tutorial LP thread that's listed in the OP if you can find it.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:00
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Monopthalmus posted:Can anyone recommend a good tutorial for playing as a republic? I have like 300 hours playing everything but republics and I still have no idea how they work or what I am supposed to be doing. It's not really too hard if you're already familiar with the main game mechanics. The key differences: -Like Muslims, you're locked into male-only succession laws, so marry them off for alliances but otherwise you might as well ignore your female family members. -You get a special "family palace" holding that you can access from the republic screen. It's like a castle you can never lose (and thus you can never become unlanded unless the republic is destroyed), with a bunch of expensive but really powerful building upgrades. -The republic itself is a separate title from your own personal holdings, and inherits via an "election" system rather than whatever you've picked for your inheritance scheme. It's not actually an election in the same way that feudal elective is - it's more like the Papal succession mechanic, where each patrician and the current doge's heir are given a "suitability" score (mostly based on age and their "election fund"), and the one with the highest score wins. -Like Buddhists, you can manually designate your heir. Be aware that children can't become doge, so try not to designate them as a successor unless you're pretty sure they'll come of age before you die. -Your main source of troops is going to be mercenaries and retinues. Fortunately you'll be making GBS threads money and get lots of retinue cap bonuses from trade post and family palace upgrades. Just don't expect to ever field much of a "traditional" levy. -You get a special "seize city" CB in any province where you have a trade post, and a "seize county" in any province where you control a city. This is an alternative way to expand your territory rather than fabricating claims, although as a republic territorial control isn't as big a deal since most of your power comes from money, which you can get without actually needing tons of land since trade posts can be built in any realm. Some tips: -Build trade posts in contiguous zones. As mentioned a few posts up, the more posts you have in a trade zone (a "zone" is made up of connected provinces under your control) the better ALL the posts in that zone will be; one trade zone with six posts in it will generate more income overall than two zones with three posts each. You take control of a particular tile by owning more trade posts in that tile than any other family. You don't need a majority, just more than anyone else. -Your trade post cap is based on the number of adult male dynasty members in your court and your trade tech level. This means that you want to both have a ton of kids, and also never land them. You should also arrange marriages for your unlanded male dynasty members so they can produce even more men for your court. Because of this rule, Republics do NOT have the fertility penalty imposed for a large court, so don't worry about having to cull your courtiers to make room. Other than that you can play them like any other ruler. Hell you can still control castles with no "wrong holding" penalty (a Muslim merchant republic could even control temples for all three), so you can treat it like a feudal lord with a bunch of extra stuff if you want to. The Cheshire Cat fucked around with this message at 23:29 on Jan 27, 2016 |
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Jan 27, 2016 23:23
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The most important thing to keep in mind when playing a republic is this: The AI is many times worse governing a merchant republic than being a feudal ruler. So if you are surrounded by potential enemies, don't ever lose the election for doge. It's all right if you are a vassal of a powerful feudal ream that can protect you (playing as the Byzantine vassal Amalfi for example), but letting the AI take over Venice will likely lead to the Byzantines pressing their de jure claim on you, the AI doge will lose the war and become unlanded, and you get a game over. Murder the males of the other merchant families to make it easier (read:cheaper) for your heirs to win the elections. And just a note, since the rework of the government systems, being allowed to hold temple holdings is now exclusively tied to being either a theocracy or having Iqta as your government. Muslim merchant republics can no longer hold temple holdings without penalty.
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Jan 27, 2016 23:44
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Torrannor posted:The most important thing to keep in mind when playing a republic is this: The AI is many times worse governing a merchant republic than being a feudal ruler. So if you are surrounded by potential enemies, don't ever lose the election for doge. It's all right if you are a vassal of a powerful feudal ream that can protect you (playing as the Byzantine vassal Amalfi for example), but letting the AI take over Venice will likely lead to the Byzantines pressing their de jure claim on you, the AI doge will lose the war and become unlanded, and you get a game over. Murder the males of the other merchant families to make it easier (read:cheaper) for your heirs to win the elections. Aw, that's disappointing. I mean I see the logic of it but I never actually got the chance to play a Muslim MR before that patch.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:24
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Torrannor posted:The most important thing to keep in mind when playing a republic is this: The AI is many times worse governing a merchant republic than being a feudal ruler. So if you are surrounded by potential enemies, don't ever lose the election for doge. It's all right if you are a vassal of a powerful feudal ream that can protect you (playing as the Byzantine vassal Amalfi for example), but letting the AI take over Venice will likely lead to the Byzantines pressing their de jure claim on you, the AI doge will lose the war and become unlanded, and you get a game over. Murder the males of the other merchant families to make it easier (read:cheaper) for your heirs to win the elections. Alas, alas.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:26
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Gods, why do grogs also have to be such loving creeps. Building trade posts gives you trade value in connected sea zones. This translates into an income bonus for cities and trade posts that are part of that zone. This income bonus asymptotically approaches something like 50% for cities and 100% for trade posts. You get a big boost to trade income for being connected to the capital. You don't get this bonus if you don't control the sea zone (have more trade posts than anyone else in the zone), and if you control two adjacent sea zones they become part of the same trade zone. Therefore a good first approximation of how to build optimally, is to build everything in the sea zone adjacent to your capital, since you will have the best chance of controlling the best zone you can get, and all your trade posts will be in the zone with the best bonus. Built-up cities are worth more than trade posts, even with the greater bonus to income from trade zone dominance, so it's in your best interests to control all the cities connected to trade zones you control, whether directly or indirectly, since the income will come to you eventually. Now, the purpose of building everything in one zone is to control it, but if you've already got more than half the possible trade posts, there's no benefit to building them there, as opposed to the next zone along, so long as you can dominate that zone too. By extending into dominance of the next trade zone along too, you get more from the cities in that zone too. So the best way to play is actually to monopolise all the trade posts, working out from your capital, and taking the sea-side cities. You can fairly easily do this when Doge, by not improving trade practices technology until you have maxed out your existing cap, built all the palace upgrades to extend your cap, and built up enough funds to immediately build all the trade posts you can after you improve technology. If you stop being Doge then you may run into trouble, since the new Doge will see that you are a real threat to him, and try to steal your trade posts, so it's best to not take chances, and rig every election.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:31
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The Cheshire Cat posted:Aw, that's disappointing. I mean I see the logic of it but I never actually got the chance to play a Muslim MR before that patch. It was mostly a gimmick. There was no need to have a temple over a castle. And that was the same patch that made it so there's no decadence for Muslim merchant republics, so it's infinitely more playable afterwards. Spamming male family members as a Muslim before that absolutely murdered your piety.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:31
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Edison was a dick posted:If you stop being Doge then you may run into trouble, since the new Doge will see that you are a real threat to him, and try to steal your trade posts, so it's best to not take chances, and rig every election. I like the endgame where you vassalize the Pope, then systematically excommunicate, imprison and then execute the other patricians You can't inherit if your heir is a child, sorry other families. Guess I win by default! *inbred imbecile 16 year old with 0 stewardship is elected Doge*
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Jan 28, 2016 00:37
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Excelzior posted:I like the endgame where you vassalize the Pope, then systematically excommunicate, imprison and then execute the other patricians Does this work well enough that you could do it over and over until all the trade posts come to you?
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Jan 28, 2016 00:39
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Volkerball posted:Does this work well enough that you could do it over and over until all the trade posts come to you? The redistribution algorithm spreads them out across the remaining patrician families. With enough killing you can make most of the trade posts yours, but you'll still end up with most of the other patrician families having at least one trade post, so do your best to ensure that you already dominate the small sea zones that connect to your capital.
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Jan 28, 2016 00:50
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I should add that relying on hiring mercenaries is completely fine if you're playing a religion that has any options in this department My West African Merchant Empire just has one bunch of light infantry dorks to hire, and they're often being used by one of my lunatic vassals to annoy another lunatic vassal. So I have to rely on levies to get anything done. I have no idea if the dynamic mercenaries thing will change this, though.
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Jan 28, 2016 01:06
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Coward posted:I should add that relying on hiring mercenaries is completely fine if you're playing a religion that has any options in this department My West African Merchant Empire just has one bunch of light infantry dorks to hire, and they're often being used by one of my lunatic vassals to annoy another lunatic vassal. So I have to rely on levies to get anything done. I imagine it would help, but West Africans would still probably get screwed just by being so far away from everyone, and if religion is taken into account (Assuming you don't convert)
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Jan 28, 2016 01:16
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Hee hee hee. I got tired of the drat Italian merchant republics and decided to try forming the Infan one on for size. Now, by fabricating a claim on Desmond, I've become the Bedoin king of Ireland. Oh, and when you muslim conquest, you subjugate the count. What this means is that there's no "recently conquered" malus on it, so when you revoke it from the sucker bishops, then create your own vassal they get all the goodies right away. And when you give them the county, they make it into castle right away. It's beautiful. I even had my Jewish Chancellor spread Bedouin to one of the counties so hopefully the assholes will culture spread soon enough; as a tribal I could probs take out a Catholic revolt from that far away but a liberation one would completely gently caress me over. And I'm too big for any of the little duchies or Scotland to Holy War me, while I am thinking of saving up the piety, prestige and cash to use the Invasion CB on Scotland and do the same thing there. Only because of how it gives me an opinion boost, I might just convert the priests and have the Ibadi Scottish kingdom. (Though I guess having everyone same-culture would be ideal, I could also just release them willy-nilly and laugh manically because they wouldn't suffer any of the ill effects of having been conquered) Hee hee hee. I'm seriously tempted to try and grab most of Mali in two simultaneous holy wars too so when I turn Merchant Republic it will all become cities for mad bux. Question: Should I settle my capital as Infa, so if the stupid AI does beat me in an election, it won't try to set the capital as Marrakesh and murder the republic or should I just stick with that duchy? Edit: lol i got the conquest wrong in my head, this is what late night posting does trick still works though Deceitful Penguin fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 02:36
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What's the best way to acquire land by marriage, or otherwise by political machinations rather than just holy wars or straight claims fabrication? I'm doing a game as a Byzantine count guy and it has me in the mood for some...byzantine machinations.
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Jan 28, 2016 02:57
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Deceitful Penguin posted:Question: Should I settle my capital as Infa, so if the stupid AI does beat me in an election, it won't try to set the capital as Marrakesh and murder the republic or should I just stick with that duchy? That would work, and I've done it before where I inherited Marrakesh as my capital when I lost the doge elections. It just sucks that Infa itself is only a 5 holding county, since Marrakesh will only get capital duchy bonuses rather than capital county bonuses. In your position, a fun thing to do might be to designate Middlesex as your future capital. The benefit of this is that your AI families have no way of knowing that is your intention, so what you can do is capture Middlesex somehow (to lower the cost of building trade posts so far away), and then start building trade posts outwards from there while your republic is based out of Infa. You can then build a continuous row of trade posts from middlesex north around scotland, and west around wales, while your patrician rivals don't attempt to interfere at all. Then when you do move your capital to Middlesex after you've built 20-30, all of those posts will instantly get one solid connected to capital bonus, and your trade zone will be so big that your AI families have no way to contain you. It gets pretty silly.
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Jan 28, 2016 03:06
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...especially when you see, that wayyy down the road the Middlesex capitol has the option to potentially transform you into the Empire-level Britannia merchant republic. The only one, besides Rome for Italia, that can do so, I think.
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Jan 28, 2016 06:05
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tfw when ur upgrading sheep as a nomad
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Jan 28, 2016 07:02
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CrazyLoon posted:...especially when you see, that wayyy down the road the Middlesex capitol has the option to potentially transform you into the Empire-level Britannia merchant republic. The only one, besides Rome for Italia, that can do so, I think.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:13
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darthbob88 posted:Scandinavia and Uppland can, and the Arabian Empire really ought to have its capital in Mecca instead of Damascus. And of course you can form your own empire, but those don't really count, do they? I never checked on that TBH. So you can form your own empire even as merchant republic, and just select a custom capitol for it wherever you please? Cool.
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Jan 28, 2016 07:36
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CrazyLoon posted:I never checked on that TBH. So you can form your own empire even as merchant republic, and just select a custom capitol for it wherever you please? Cool. well that and you can form the empire title as a republic regardless of where your capital is at. if you control 81% of britannia and you're a merchant republic, you can form it even if your capital is in barcelona. the reason middlesex being the de jure capital of the empire is important is that it means you can move your capital much later in the game. as a merchant republic, you are not allowed to move your capital unless you are moving to the de jure capital of your primary title (provided it is coastal). middlesex and as you said rome in italia, are the two i can think of that are perfect candidates for merchant republic capitals that you can move to even as an emperor. uppsala would work, but it doesn't really count. since it starts tribal, you can save yourself a shitload of hassle by just starting there and making a republic.
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Jan 28, 2016 08:30
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