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Norwegian Rudo posted:I believe the writer's strike was after their much criticized third season. Don't know if they were told to, but the strike gave the top producers the time to set down a real plan and agree on an end point. Lindelof and Cuse went to the network after 'Stranger In A Strange Land' aired and specifically told them this is what's going to keep happening if they don't agree on an end date. There was a theory that they made a deliberately bad episode just for that purpose, but it sounds more like they knew what they had and used it as an opportunity.
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Jan 28, 2016 11:10
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Josh Lyman posted:LOL if you think a non-showrunner EP does anything but collect paychecks. Just lol if you think fox is going to let a TV show break the mold. Still not going to hold my breath on lucifer being anything but cop drama with the devil.
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Jan 28, 2016 11:19
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Pedro De Heredia posted:The plot in those shows got pretty bad too. A lot of the later-day 'drug cartel in-fighting' stuff in Breaking Bad is repetitive and idiotic, and the whole blackmail box and the stuff going on in the last two seasons of The Shield was super forgettable. actually the ending was dogshit retarded hth
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Jan 28, 2016 11:19
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zoux posted:It was pretty aimless over three seasons so I think probably they just had a loose idea of what it was. I know some decision was made to focus the show and nail down an ending, I can't remember if it was the studio that forced it or not. It seems to me that if you from day one had a strong narrative arc hitting predetermined beats towards a specific conclusion, that kind of decision would have never come up. Tell us more about the orange cocks of white liberals zoux 
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Jan 28, 2016 11:26
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STAC Goat posted:Lost and X-Files were about bigger plots and conspiracies with tons of questions and mysteries. So not knowing what the hell the answers are to the questions you're posing is kind of a huge problem in storytelling. That's different from "I don't know how Mulder's personal growth or story will end. I'll let it happen as organically as possible and hopefully it works out." I've heard that on Fringe, the original plan was to tease out the mystery and the mythology / conspiracy elements for a couple of years then reveal the parallel universe in season three. Then it became clear that it wasn't going to be a Lost-level hit so they picked up the pace and had Olivia going to the parallel universe at the end of season one.
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Jan 28, 2016 13:14
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corn in the bible posted:the best episode of the x-files is the brad dourif one  Goddamn just thinking about scenes from that episode gives me chills and I probably havem't seen it in 10 years
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Jan 28, 2016 15:12
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Brad is bad and overacts
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Jan 28, 2016 15:16
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Didn't he win an award for that?
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Jan 28, 2016 15:18
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Holyshoot posted:Just lol if you think fox is going to let a TV show break the mold. Still not going to hold my breath on lucifer being anything but cop drama with the devil. It's not Fox's mold though. If it was on CBS, maybe.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:31
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corn in the bible posted:actually the ending was dogshit retarded hth The whole "heart of the island" thing? Yeah, I was disappointed that the explanation of... everything was mystical (light and water and electromagnetism combining in the set of an Enya music video, ugh, gross) until I realized that under the cork was a ball of the red matter from Star Trek and Alias and that there was a logical scientific explanation after all. asecondduck fucked around with this message at 15:42 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 15:34
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Aphrodite posted:It's not Fox's mold though. If it was on CBS, maybe. The prosecution submits into evidence: "Minority Report."
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Jan 28, 2016 15:55
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Rarity posted:Tell us more about the orange cocks of white liberals zoux Well I love squeezin' em. I read an article a few months ago interviewing Harmon and Roiland about R&M and TV in general and they said something that I thought was interesting, that with the advent of the internet you can't do the big twist anymore. The internet is basically a brute-force speculation machine and someone is going to suss out your carefully laid hints and foreshadowings. Good setup twists aren't really possible anymore, and I think Lost is an example of it. I really do think it was originally supposed to be everyone died/purgatory or whatever, but that was instantly guessed by the fans. I think that if this was 1985, it would've ended with a "dead the whole time" ending.
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Jan 28, 2016 15:59
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Wheat Loaf posted:I've heard that on Fringe, the original plan was to tease out the mystery and the mythology / conspiracy elements for a couple of years then reveal the parallel universe in season three. Then it became clear that it wasn't going to be a Lost-level hit so they picked up the pace and had Olivia going to the parallel universe at the end of season one. I think it was served better for it, because even from the beginning they were hanging some of those pieces. The parallel universe gave them something to hang other bits around, and it's a lot easier (for me) to leave loose ends hanging if I know where they're generally going to lie. I'll contrast that with Pretender which is a show my family enjoyed but went from a few interesting divided loyalties and double agents to pretty much "everyone's a double agent, some of them are triple or quadruple, new levels of intrigue are constantly being introduced but none of the old stuff is being resolved." And then they blew everybody up.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:21
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Ironically Rick and Morty did pull off a pretty good twist in its finale, although not one that would really have been possible to guess ahead of time.lelandjs posted:The whole "heart of the island" thing? Yeah, I was disappointed that the explanation of... everything was mystical (light and water and electromagnetism combining in the set of an Enya music video, ugh, gross) until I realized that under the cork was a ball of the red matter from Star Trek and Alias and that there was a logical scientific explanation after all. So you really wanted there to be a totally scientific, rational explanation for everything that happened in LOST? I've never actually seen one of you in the wild. That's absolutely fascinating.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:36
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zoux posted:I read an article a few months ago interviewing Harmon and Roiland about R&M and TV in general and they said something that I thought was interesting, that with the advent of the internet you can't do the big twist anymore. The internet is basically a brute-force speculation machine and someone is going to suss out your carefully laid hints and foreshadowings. Good setup twists aren't really possible anymore, and I think Lost is an example of it. I really do think it was originally supposed to be everyone died/purgatory or whatever, but that was instantly guessed by the fans. I think that if this was 1985, it would've ended with a "dead the whole time" ending. "Dead the whole time" is an idea that I think everyone has about Lost, but it would have never worked well (and I imagine the writers knew that). It's a twist that's difficult to pull off in movies because, although it's all fiction, 'fictions-within-fictions' can be hard to take seriously. In a long-running series it would be impossible. And it would be difficult to have the whole 'person works through their issues in an afterlife' thing if the afterlife happens to be an island where they're far away from all their loved ones and their life.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:37
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Pedro De Heredia posted:"Dead the whole time" is an idea that I think everyone has about Lost, but it would have never worked well (and I imagine the writers knew that). It's a twist that's difficult to pull off in movies because, although it's all fiction, 'fictions-within-fictions' can be hard to take seriously. In a long-running series it would be impossible. And it would be difficult to have the whole 'person works through their issues in an afterlife' thing if the afterlife happens to be an island where they're far away from all their loved ones and their life. Dead the whole time is just kind of short hand I'm using for whatever the original twist/explanation was, but I don't think it's a coincidence that everyone in the world was like "island is purgatory" and D&C were like "no it's super not that" and then the last season did a purgatory twist. Escobarbarian posted:Ironically Rick and Morty did pull off a pretty good twist in its finale, although not one that would really have been possible to guess ahead of time. Mr Robotdid as well but it covered it with a sort of red herring by presenting an obvious Sixth Sense twist that we the viewers could feel all smug about so that we didn't notice the real twist.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:42
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Yep that's true. I fell for that one completely. I don't think LOST was ever meant to be purgatory the whole time, though. Just doesn't really fit with anything about the show.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:49
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Bruceski posted:I think it was served better for it, because even from the beginning they were hanging some of those pieces. The parallel universe gave them something to hang other bits around, and it's a lot easier (for me) to leave loose ends hanging if I know where they're generally going to lie. Oh, yeah, it was definitely better for it.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:11
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Escobarbarian posted:
IMO a the whole "colony of scientists studying the island with science, and not really figuring everything out" is a lot more interesting than "it was antarctica in the future or whatever!".
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Jan 28, 2016 17:22
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Escobarbarian posted:So you really wanted there to be a totally scientific, rational explanation for everything that happened in LOST? Oh I was being sarcastic. Explaining things with a sciencey device that does whatever the plot requires is not any better or really any different then a mystical explanation. It's like how staunch atheists refuse to admit that belief in science (Big Bang, black holes, dark matter) requires just as much faith as believing in God. asecondduck fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 17:27
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So you're saying it's not true?
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Jan 28, 2016 17:31
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lelandjs posted:Oh I was being sarcastic. Explaining things with a sciencey device that does whatever the plot requires is not any better or really any different then a mystical explanation. Oh is this what we're doing today? Having a fight?
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Jan 28, 2016 17:32
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Aphrodite posted:So you're saying it's not true? zoux posted:Oh is this what we're doing today? Having a fight? No, not tying to start a fight. It's absolutely true that a lot of high-level scientific explanations are really all based on conjecture and theories, and may never actually be provable as true. They're drat good explanations, posited by intelligent people with a foundation in observable and provable science, but still require faith--that what is being extrapolated is correct--in order to believe they happened. Don't get me wrong--I'm an atheist myself--but there is absolutely an aspect of faith inherent in scientific theory.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:37
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lelandjs posted:No, not tying to start a fight. It's absolutely true that a lot of high-level scientific explanations are really all based on conjecture and theories, and may never actually be provable as true. They're drat good explanations, posited by intelligent people with a foundation in observable and provable science, but still require faith--that what is being extrapolated is correct--in order to believe they happened. I think what you're saying is true, it's just that the words FAITH and BELIEF have picked up nasty connotations because of their associations with people who deny facts. And I agree with you about "mystic" story elements, by the way. I think that you can strip layer after layer off of a mystery and there will still be people that won't be satisfied until you definitively say "IT'S BECAUSE GOD" or "IT'S BECAUSE AN EXTREMELY RARE METAL THAT ONLY EXISTS IN THIS UNIVERSE." Pepe Silvia Browne fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 17:51
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lelandjs posted:No, not tying to start a fight. It's absolutely true that a lot of high-level scientific explanations are really all based on conjecture and theories, and may never actually be provable as true. They're drat good explanations, posited by intelligent people with a foundation in observable and provable science, but still require faith--that what is being extrapolated is correct--in order to believe they happened. Yeah but there's also a whole lot of proven science. Pretty big difference between what you said in the first post and second.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:55
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THA TITTY THRILLER posted:I think what you're saying is true, it's just that the words FAITH and BELIEF have picked up nasty connotations because of their associations with people who deny facts. Battlestar Galactica said from day one, episode one, that God did it. It could not be any more explicit or clear about that. For the longest time a lot of people just assumed there would be an answer that involved something other than that, no matter how much mounting weird occult poo poo happened or how much people kept dropping the G word. So even if you definitively say why things are happening, some people might still not accept it.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:59
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You don't even need to believe in science at all to be an atheist, anyways.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:11
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Aphrodite posted:Yeah but there's also a whole lot of proven science. Yeah but he's not saying that PROVEN science is incorrect or needs to be believed in. He's saying that if something can't be conclusively proven because of our current limitations, even if it's our best logical guess based on the facts, it still takes a degree of belief to say "I know that this is true." They don't know. They might think that they do. They might be certain in their heart of hearts. They might be proven right a century later. But at that point in time, if it's not proven, it's still a belief. Unfortunately, just like fundamentalists who refuse to acknowledge that the Earth has been here for more than 6,000 years because they think it will invalidate their entire religion, there are Atheists that think that saying "You're right, I don't know for certain" is the nail in science's coffin. It's fine, there's plenty of poo poo we don't know and probably never will, that doesn't invalidate what we've done so far and it definitely doesn't mean we should stop trying to understand our universe. How bout that TV, though, huh?
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Jan 28, 2016 18:35
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There's an inherent assumption that atheists are also "scientific", and any atheist who doesn't understand the scientific method and why science believes the things it does (this is different from religion's non-evidence-based belief) is an atheist as much as ISIS are Muslims or the Atlanta Olympic bomber is a Christian.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:42
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Boogaleeboo posted:Battlestar Galactica said from day one, episode one, that God did it. It could not be any more explicit or clear about that. For the longest time a lot of people just assumed there would be an answer that involved something other than that, no matter how much mounting weird occult poo poo happened or how much people kept dropping the G word. So even if you definitively say why things are happening, some people might still not accept it. You don't understand. It had space ships. Space ships are a nerd thing, and nerds are atheists who only believe in science. What's the point of science if it's not going to eventually prove that religion is wrong and that people were stupid for ever following it?
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Jan 28, 2016 18:44
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Were there any shows that were strong before the writers strike that maintained that quality after?
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Jan 28, 2016 18:49
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so bryan singer cast the dude who plays Shadow from Known Bad TV Show the 100
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Jan 28, 2016 18:50
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zoux posted:Were there any shows that were strong before the writers strike that maintained that quality after? What's crazy is how many writer's strikes there've been. Sometimes people say "the writers strike" as if there was just the one, ever.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:51
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zoux posted:Were there any shows that were strong before the writers strike that maintained that quality after? breaking bad, since part of the reason to not kill off Jesse was due to the strike and it guaranteed a pickup for a second season. the first season got poor ratings, and if given a full season AMC could have easily cut it
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Jan 28, 2016 18:52
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Since I opened that box and then went away I just want to clear up that I don't actually think that Lost ended with "the island is purgatory." I just thought that was a quick and dirty way to try and say "the themes they kinda ended the show with with like the sideways thing and the whole afterlife idea are themes that people kind of always expected and if had been executed in a different way a lot of the people who didn't like it might have been fine with it." I really was just being lazy and quick. That's my bad. I forgot that a lot of people still really care about Lost and how other people feel about it.
STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 18:56
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I definitely still care that Lost was a garbage bullshit show 90% of the time and I can't believe I watched the whole lovely thing. edit: V really any of that stuff. The only reason people "believe" in those things is because of evidence. The nature of those things is continuously refined as more research is done. It's nothing like faith. If faith in God was like faith in black holes, people would constantly be changing their expectations of God based on observed phenomenon. Snak fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Jan 28, 2016 |
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Jan 28, 2016 19:00
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lelandjs posted:Oh I was being sarcastic. Explaining things with a sciencey device that does whatever the plot requires is not any better or really any different then a mystical explanation. hahaha how do you think that black holes require faith you idiot
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Jan 28, 2016 19:00
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Saw a really weird commercial the other day about how NBC Universo is going to start showing The Walking Dead En Espanol.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:04
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Snak posted:I definitely still care that Lost was a garbage bullshit show 90% of the time and I can't believe I watched the whole lovely thing. Eh, I've watched worse. Lost is no Dexter. I'm mostly grateful I jumped into Lost in like S3 so I skipped the initial fervor and hysteria with all the easter eggs and poo poo and instead encountered in when people were basically paranoid schizophrenics about the show so I avoided most of that stuff.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:10
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STAC Goat posted:Eh, I've watched worse. Lost is no Dexter. Oh that's true. I also watched all of Dexter because of the same friend. Holy jesus god christ.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:12
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