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Kurzon posted:I read that in the tabletop game, Clan mechs are superior to IS in every way. How was this supposed to be balanced? Are IS mechs just cheap and they zerg rush the Clan side or something? The clans were basically an expansion added to the TT. Initially it was all IS and things were pretty balanced over-all. Clans were added as an existential crisis for the IS, a big bad that everyone would have to destroy. They were OP as gently caress precisely because the idea was to give players something that they had to fight against at a disadvantage. A few people decided they liked to play clans and those people were universally terrible power-fantasy sperglords and the worst kind of TT and RPG min-maxers. In the rare instance that a clan player wasn't just a min-maxing twerp who wanted to be the biggest badass in the game shop Clan players were supposed to be hamstrung a little by the rules of engagement. Honor was a huge thing in the clans, so instead of focusing down one enemy all of the clan mechs were supposed to pick a target and go one on one. A clever IS player facing a Clan player who actually followed the ROE could use this to spread damage around his mechs while focusing down the clan player. The Clans were also supposed to engage in a competitive bidding process to figure out who commanded the attack which lead to Clans dropping with way lower tonnage. In a TT scenario it was generally assumed than an IS player would have anywhere from a third more tonnage to double the Clan weight. Of course all of these are things that don't really translate to a game like MWO. Imagine if unquirked IS mechs and Clans using weapons with identical burn times and everyone having solid projectiles went at it, only the Clans were restricted to a 8 man team and the IS got 12, plus clan players only got credit for kills if they were the first one to damage the mech. That's more along the lines of what the TT balance was built around.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:11
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Kurzon posted:Thanks for the opinions. http://mwo.gamepedia.com/Jump_Jets Shadow cat maybe?
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Jan 28, 2016 16:25
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Astroniomix posted:Clan medium lasers are the worst heat-to-damage ratio in the game, and clan lasers burn forever. uh...bruh
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Jan 28, 2016 16:25
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Kurzon posted:Thanks for the opinions. You can throw jumpjets on a Timber Wolf, but it doesn't have the high hardpoints or ecm of a hellbringer. Timber wolves also tend to be focused down quickly because they have a very distinctive shape and most players recognize them as the most dangerous mech on the team. Avoid shadow cats, the only good build is a shadowcat with two large pulse lasers.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:26
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If youre really desperate, Cheetahs can mount 2 large lasers on their shoulders and have jump jets +ECM. Other than that, i dont know if theres a mech with higher mounts than the jaguars torso-hardpoints.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:40
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uh, the timberwolves do have a high 3 energy hardpoint omnipod, but i believe it gives a heat penalty
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Jan 28, 2016 16:42
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Willfrey posted:uh, the timberwolves do have a high 3 energy hardpoint omnipod, but i believe it gives a heat penalty it's also a gigantic target for anyone with half a brain and tends to get blown off extremely quick, which leaves you with little to no weapons left. my survivability increased dramatically when i went back to the regular torsos versus that one.
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Jan 28, 2016 16:44
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If you get double heat sinks does it also change your engine heatsinks?
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Jan 28, 2016 17:34
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It means you can mount DHS in your engines.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:34
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it also doubles the baseline cooling that you get from the engine iirc. You can notice a difference between a mech running 3 or 4 single heatsinks and one with doubles but no extras installed.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:36
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ZenVulgarity posted:If you get double heat sinks does it also change your engine heatsinks? It changes the built in ones (the one heat sink you get per 25 engine rating up until 250) to true doubles. Any that you mount in the extra engine slots you get for every 25 engine rating above 250 (275 allows 1, 300 allows 2, etc) count as "external" mounted heat sinks, just as if you'd put them in anywhere else on the mech.
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Jan 28, 2016 17:46
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I love my nova so muchNumber19 posted:It changes the built in ones (the one heat sink you get per 25 engine rating up until 250) to true doubles. Any that you mount in the extra engine slots you get for every 25 engine rating above 250 (275 allows 1, 300 allows 2, etc) count as "external" mounted heat sinks, just as if you'd put them in anywhere else on the mech. Ohhh okay
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Jan 28, 2016 17:55
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How useful is the NARC? Why should I take a NARC over three extra heat sinks?
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Jan 28, 2016 18:11
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It's not and you shouldn't.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:13
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Kurzon posted:How useful is the NARC? Why should I take a NARC over three extra heat sinks? Real talk: LRMs are hella bad, but on some maps being narced is a death sentence. The CAN be a role for LRMs in some CW scenarios, but that takes team build coordination and for the most part don't take arms or enable LRM users.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:19
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ZenVulgarity posted:I love my nova so much In addition, all mechs are required to mount a minimum of 10 heat sinks. Engines smaller than a 250 cannot contain that minimum number and that i why you have to mount additional heatsinks on some light and medium mechs, even if you don't need 10 heat sink's worth of heat capacity or dissipation (the Urbanmech is a perfect example of this).
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Jan 28, 2016 18:20
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Fun fact about the urbanmech in tabletop: It mounted an extra heat sink, even though the maximum amount of heat it could generate in a turn is 7 points. (3 from ac/10, 1 from small laser, 3 from jumping) So why did it waste 1 ton out of 30 on a heat sink? That could have gone to more ammo, more engine, or a medium laser. The answer lies in the fact that if a 'mech starts and stops its turn in fire its heat goes up by 6 points. The urban 'mech was designed to stroll through burning buildings without encountering any danger to itself.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:26
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Kurzon posted:How useful is the NARC? Why should I take a NARC over three extra heat sinks? Quick battles on open maps with little overhead cover (like polar highlands), are lrm-city, so whoever you narc is going to melt. Maps with lots of cover like crimson straight or Forest Colony its gets more situational. But it's not worth it over heatsinks. I use one on a commando build I run in public groups for fun.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:31
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A.o.D. posted:So why did it waste 1 ton out of 30 on a heat sink? So it could soak an inevitable engine hit due to being a slow walking deathtrap. 3 AC/10 + 1 small laser + 2 running + 5 engine damage = 11
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Jan 28, 2016 18:31
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Oh boy. Played some games with goons last night in a Rhino Stalker. Was fun. Would do again. There was a game we played in the Bog where I was following our popcicled Dad around who gallantly drew fire until he died. Ended up with 800+ damage and 3 or 4 kills thanks to that brave Dad.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:38
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Ice Fist posted:Oh boy. Played some games with goons last night in a Rhino Stalker. Was fun. Would do again. A Good Dad.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:47
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I wallet warriored myself the Marauder pack. Anyone got any good builds for them? I'm not sure which variant is the best one.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:53
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Luigi Thirty posted:I wallet warriored myself the Marauder pack. Anyone got any good builds for them? I'm not sure which variant is the best one. 3R - 2ML right arm, 3 AC5 RT. Dead arm/torso for blocking. 5M ac20/4mpl BH ac20/4mpl (or 7 ml if you feel spicy) They're all good robots.
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Jan 28, 2016 18:57
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There is also a good 2srm6a and 3 lpl build for the one with the missile hard points.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:04
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A Curvy Goonette posted:Avoid shadow cats, the only good build is a shadowcat with two large pulse lasers. Yeah but they're so fun though.
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Jan 28, 2016 19:21
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Stringbean posted:I set up OBS the other night, one button pressed at the beginning of game, one button pressed at end. Great quality too Thronde posted:Anyone have the
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Jan 28, 2016 20:12
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time line link ChronoJam made?
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Bentai posted:What settings did you use? Thanks dude, I think that format will be perfect for the Star Citizen collapse time line.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:17
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I've used a 2LPL AC20 MAD to good effect.
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Jan 28, 2016 20:49
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Thronde posted:Thanks dude, I think that format will be perfect for the Star Citizen collapse time line. How many data points do you need that say "dumpster fire"?
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Jan 28, 2016 21:16
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Well you want to make sure it's a clean even burn.
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Jan 28, 2016 21:21
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Number19 posted:It changes the built in ones (the one heat sink you get per 25 engine rating up until 250) to true doubles. Any that you mount in the extra engine slots you get for every 25 engine rating above 250 (275 allows 1, 300 allows 2, etc) count as "external" mounted heat sinks, just as if you'd put them in anywhere else on the mech. Idle musings here while I step away form work for a few, take with a grain of salt because I haven't sat down and thought about this too much: I've always sort of wondered why this is even a thing, especially in a game like MWO. I'm pretty sure there is never a practical reason to use single heat sinks because of the in-engine heat sinks also going double. It's just a flat 1.5mil upgrade cost that you have to pay for most mechs that don't already come with it. "Internal" vs "External" heatsinks having different values is plenty non-intuitive, too - I would have imagined that there would be some sort of weight vs critical slot tradeoff that you could design around using single heat sinks, but the difference between a mech using double heatsinks for it's internal 10 and a mech using single heatsinks is profound even before you add any additionals. The mech using singles has to spend 8 tons on heatsinks just to approximately match the output of the mech using double heatsinks with no externals. This isn't a standard engine vs XL kind of tradeoff, where there are legitimate and good reasons to take STD engines over XL for many mechs. This is closer to an Endo vs Ferro type, except that if you're going to throw 14 critical slots to get more tonnage you always pick Endo over Ferro because Endo provides more weight - that would be a different story if instead of providing more armor per ton and having the same cap on total armor points, Ferro allowed you to mount the same total tonnage of armor but gave you more total armor points. But of course, that's not how it works in tabletop. Why aren't the "internal" engine heatsinks normalized to the current DHS rate? Is it because people would take the opportunity to run low-damage, cool builds on high-heat sniper weapons like ER PPCs that they'd be able to spam infinitely? Is it because, on the IS side, external double heat sinks actually only provide ~16% faster cooling over single heatsinks? I suppose if the only thing you changed was the in-engine values, single heatsinks would suddenly become popular on crit-locked IS builds. Obviously there was quite a lot of fiddling and testing done; you pretty much only get these kind of values and results in something that's been holistically tweaked and tweaked again. But I'm wondering if standardizing the "base" engine heat between single and DHS was ever considered as a solution, or if that was a step too far from canon to even consider?
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Jan 28, 2016 22:18
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Short answer: single and double HS were balanced for TT. A big part of that balance involved the fact that mechs with double HS were a gently caress load more expensive. Even so, double were more or less obviously superior. It's a tech era thing. Endo Steel, FF, ultra ACs, ER energy weapons, etc were all part of the tech bump that happened around ~3045 in the timeline, and right before the Clans invaded. It was essentially a way to give IS some more expensive equipment that was only mediocre compared to clan stuff, as opposed to hilariously outclassed. THat's the main problem with this game. PGI keeps trying to stay faithful to the TT stuff because their pre-Steam fan base was only ever hard core battletech nerds, but everything was designed for a TT system that did balance using a bunch of things that just aren't accessible in this game. edit: endo vs FF is another good example. You could upgrade a mech from regular to FF pretty cheaply as armor was basically bolt-on. Upgrading to Endo was essentially impossible - better to just buy a new mech.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:33
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Picked up the Marauder pack last and played mostly with goons. I'm using the fits mentioned above and from Meta Mechs as well, what the hell am I doing wrong? I usually try to poke and engage from medium range but I invariably get surrounded and shot to bits with no chance to withdraw since I'm so slow. My damage is absolutely terrible too compared to what I was using before and my KDR has tanked hard. I haven't even changed tiers this whole time  
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Jan 28, 2016 22:33
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It's such a good solution but it would require Paul to accept that the community is smarter than he is and that will never happen.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:34
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Comedy suggestion: Instead of measuring tonnage, restrict drops by cbill cost. I'd also like to think there's a few holdouts left, legs jammed full of standard heatsinks, standing proud in a shallow body of water.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:44
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Sard posted:Comedy suggestion: Instead of measuring tonnage, restrict drops by cbill cost. That would be BV by another name. The two mapped very closely in TT.
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Jan 28, 2016 22:47
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Kurzon posted:How useful is the NARC? Why should I take a NARC over three extra heat sinks? I only play solo quick matches (yeah I know), and I kind of like Narc as a cat-herding tool. Pubs tend to swarm vaguely towards whatever target blips are currently lit up and having one that doesn't flicker as people move in and out of cover tends to focus their attention. Focus-firing is how you win matches, so ideally this gets people to accidentally coordinate and play smarter. That's what I like to imagine, anyway. I don't think it's actually a strong enough effect to justify the tonnage, but it's sort of a fun "I'm roleplaying a scout!" thing.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:01
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Sard posted:Comedy suggestion: Instead of measuring tonnage, restrict drops by cbill cost. I played TT once in my life like 30 years ago and I still remember reading that rule and thinking it was cool.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:34
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Im running short on SRM6 packs. Ever since i discovered the wonderful world of missilespaminyourface i mount them on everything i can. I had to take SRM4s on my stalker cause all the 6s are on other mechs and i cba to swap them everytime. Thankfully once i hit rank 2 with Davion i can buy another stalker that comes with another 2 srm6 packs.
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Jan 28, 2016 23:44
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Just saw this hot fun kitchen sink piece of I don't even know King Crab:
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Jan 28, 2016 23:46
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