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Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax
The idea of Palestinians being citizens of Israel in any significant numbers is ludicrous and is only being propounded as an attempt to throw sand in the gears.

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Ultramega
Jul 9, 2004

Maoist Pussy posted:

If you have lost but failed to surrender, then it should be no surprise when the conflict continues.

Might does not equal right. Hth.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

Maoist Pussy posted:

The idea of Palestinians being citizens of Israel in any significant numbers is ludicrous and is only being propounded as an attempt to throw sand in the gears.

The idea that Israel can control the territory and every aspect of their lives while not granting them equal rights is known as 'apartheid'. And besides, Israel already has 2 million palestinian citizens, that's a rather significant number.

What are you proposing?

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Maoist Pussy posted:

The idea of Palestinians being citizens of Israel in any significant numbers is ludicrous and is only being propounded as an attempt to throw sand in the gears.

Either they're foreigners and you're occupying their territory illegaly, or they're citizens of your country. Anything else is just an excuse to do some ethnic cleansing.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

emanresu tnuocca posted:

The idea that Israel can control the territory and every aspect of their lives while not granting them equal rights is known as 'apartheid'. And besides, Israel already has 2 million palestinian citizens, that's a rather significant number.

What are you proposing?

quote:

in 1967 they were citizens of either Jordan or Egypt;

This.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

So Jordan and Egypt should have the territory back, then?

Baloogan
Dec 5, 2004
Fun Shoe
lol no

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747
Fun activity for kids: read the universal declaration of human rights and count how many Israel violates.


For example, article 1:

Maoist Pussy posted:

The idea of Palestinians being citizens of Israel in any significant numbers is ludicrous and is only being propounded as an attempt to throw sand in the gears.

"All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights."

They were born on the land where they live. If you claim this land belongs to Israel, that means that they are citizens of Israel. The only way in which you can deny this is by claiming that they are not entitled to the universal human rights, which you can only do if you claim that they are not, in fact, human.


lol ethnic cleansing lololol rofl genocide lulz

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Maoist Pussy posted:

Ahahahahaha. No.


It's almost like we got a word for what happens when you take somebody's land and then push them off of it. We kinda frown on that sorta thing.

Panzeh fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Jan 28, 2016

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

Panzeh posted:

So Jordan and Egypt should have the territory back, then?

Ahahahahaha. No.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
So, you are advocating ethnic cleansing as not only a legitimate solution but in fact the only acceptable one? No reason to pussyfoot around the issue, let's all just be clear about our views concerning crimes against humanity. I for one would like to state that I am against ethnic cleansing, i think it's bad but then again I am a bit of a hippie when it comes to this sort of thing.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax
No, just resettlement.

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

Maoist Pussy posted:

No, just resettlement.

Madagascar makes sense, don't you think?

Just to be more serious, that is literally the definition of ethnic cleansing.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Ah ha.

Well, to be fair it would be an improvement over what Israel did in 1948 but it's still ethnic cleansing.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!
the trail of tears was legitimate and wise

Panzeh
Nov 27, 2006

"..The high ground"

corn in the bible posted:

the trail of tears was legitimate and wise

Jackson did nothing wrong

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

Panzeh posted:

Madagascar makes sense, don't you think?

Just to be more serious, that is literally the definition of ethnic cleansing.

Cleansing is good. I think I am going to go take a cleansing right now!

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos

GenderSelectScreen
Mar 7, 2010

I DON'T KNOW EITHER DON'T ASK ME
College Slice

Maoist Pussy posted:

Cleansing is good. I think I am going to go take a cleansing right now!

Make sure to cleanse your immediate family as well.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax
I am aware that it is a terrifying subject for goons.

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

Maoist Pussy posted:

If you have lost but failed to surrender, then it should be no surprise when the conflict continues.

The civil war for rule of Mandatory Palestine ended long ago with the establishment of the country and government of Israel. This does not mean that private landowners lost their rights to live there, it just means they are under the control of a different government. The fact that territory may change hands after a war does not mean that all the existing inhabitants are obligated to leave - it just means they pay taxes to a different government. Expulsion of the previous inhabitants of conquered land is typically regarded as a crime against humanity. Modern international law and precedents are quite clear on this, generally: you don't want to be responsible for the people, don't seize control over the land in the first place, because the people who live there come with it.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax
Modern international law means jack-poo poo when it presumes to prohibit something that every country knows is a practical necessity.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747

Maoist Pussy posted:

Modern international law means jack-poo poo when it presumes to prohibit something that every country knows is a practical necessity.

Purging your population from those of unwanted ethnicity is a practical necessity, you say. Wonderful.


At this point I have to call Poe's Law.

Lustful Man Hugs
Jul 18, 2010

Maoist Pussy posted:

I am aware that it is a terrifying subject for goons.

Deliberate and cold-blooded crimes against humanity is indeed a terrifying subject. And who considers the gradual annexation of land for the purpose of racial and religious hegemony to be a 'practical purpose'? Even of the ardent supporters of Israeli foreign policy that I've talked to in real life, none of them considered the settlements to be legal, necessary or in any way valid.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax
You don't have to consider them valid when other people are doing the heavy-lifting for you. You just have to wait it out, and you get a nation of your own with contiguous borders.

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011

Muldoon
So your position is that Egypt and Jordan have an obligation to let Palestinians be "resettled," but Israel has no obligation to stop ethnically cleansing them? Why do Egypt and Jordan have to observe human rights if Israel gets to ignore them?

Bear Retrieval Unit
Nov 5, 2009

Mudslide Experiment
US restates labeling rules on Israeli products from West Bank
Thanks Obama (unironically).

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

Kajeesus posted:

So your position is that Egypt and Jordan have an obligation to let Palestinians be "resettled," but Israel has no obligation to stop ethnically cleansing them? Why do Egypt and Jordan have to observe human rights if Israel gets to ignore them?

You are the one operating under a human rights narrative, not me. Resettled people are, in practical terms, going to do best when resettled to neighboring states with identical language, religion and culture.

corn in the bible
Jun 5, 2004

Oh no oh god it's all true!

Maoist Pussy posted:

You are the one operating under a human rights narrative, not me. Resettled people are, in practical terms, going to do best when resettled to neighboring states with identical language, religion and culture.

I agree, Israel should be forcibly moved away from the predominantly Islamic region of the Middle East

Main Paineframe
Oct 27, 2010

quote:

Canada's PM forgets Jews in statement on Holocaust

No mention of Jewish victims of the Holocaust or anti-Semitism in Justin Trudeau's statement for Int'l Holocaust Remembrance Day.

The statement Canadian Prime Minister Justice Trudeau issued Wednesday in honor of International Holocaust Remembrance Day suffered from one very glaring omission.

The Holocaust is defined as the genocide of six million Jews at the hands of the Nazi regime and its collaborators, but in his statement, Trudeau did not mention the words "Jew" or "anti-Semitism" once.

Instead, the Liberal leader offered "tribute to the memory of the millions of victims murdered during the Holocaust," adding that Canada honors "those who survived atrocities at the hands of the Nazi regime, and welcome their courageous stories of hope and perseverance."

Continuing, Trudeau asserted, “The Holocaust is a stark reminder of the dangers and risks of allowing hate, prejudice, and discrimination to spread unchallenged. It also reminds us that silence must never be an option when humanity is threatened."

“As we pause to educate ourselves and our families on the bitter lessons of the Holocaust, we also strengthen our resolve to work with domestic and international partners to continue defending human rights and condemning intolerance.”

In stark contrast to Trudeau, the leaders of Canada's Conservative and NDP parties made sure to mention the central victims of the Holocaust, which is commemorated internationally on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Rona Ambrose, Canada's opposition leader, said in her statement that, “Today we remember the countless innocent men, women, and children, including six million Jews who were murdered in Nazi death camps during the Second World War.

"Sadly, today is also a day to remind ourselves that the undisguised anti-Semitism of the Nazi-era still festers in too many parts of the world – and that it can reach even into our own society, clothed in more subtle garb."

NDP leader Tom Mulcair likewise joined in "honoring the memory of the millions of Jewish men, women and children who suffered and were murdered alongside countless others."

quote:

MK ramps up battle against far-left NGOs

New proposed law would allow courts to dismantle any NGO for physically or verbally attacking the IDF or any of its active soldiers.

Jewish Home Faction Leader Shuli Mualem-Refaeli is taking the fight against extremist left-wing organizations to the next level.

On Wednesday, Mualem submitted a proposed bill to the Knesset that would increase the authority of the courts to dismantle NGOs that attack Israel and basic Israeli institutions such as the IDF.

According to the proposed bill, organizations that work to slander the IDF or its soldiers while they are fulfilling their duties and assault them either physically or verbally, will be dismantled.

The new law will allow the courts to dismantle organizations such as Machsom Watch, or any future organization that may arise on either the Left or Right that would do the same thing.

In the section for the reasoning behind the proposed law, Mualem illustrated how extremist left-wing organizations confront soldiers at checkpoints or along the security barrier and antagonize them. These actions often end with physical assaults against soldiers.

Often, “these attacks on soldiers occur while the event is being filmed by the left-wing organizations to capture any response by the soldier so that they can portray it as the soldier abusing the civilian and how justified their work is since the soldiers are violent.

"These same organizations portray themselves as working to help the community at large and even enlist donations from within Israel as well as internationally in order to pay for this work.”

The current law allows the courts to dismantle an NGO that negate the existence of the state of Israel, or if it attacks the Israeli government or its ministers. The new law will aim to include to that list any NGO that attacks the IDF and its soldiers.

Mualem-Refaeli told Arutz Sheva that “as soon as an NGO in a democratic country functions in ways that are illegal and are illegitimate in order to push forward a certain agenda, it itself becomes an illegitimate body.

"We cannot allow the situation in which left-wing NGOs continue to attack and antagonize soldiers in targeted attacks to try to get a rise out of them so they can portray them as evil. This antagonization includes any physical or verbal abuse. We need to expand the authority of the courts to allow them to order the dismantling of any NGO that harms the foundations of the state, of which the IDF is one of them.”

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

Maoist Pussy posted:

That is what is known as a legal fiction.

You sound like a sovereign citizen. "Sure, everyone in the world may recognise the law as working in a particular and common sense way and although that may be based in the most fundamental of laws, somehow I'll find the magic phrase which changes everything and convinces you all you're wrong. I do not consent!"


Please spoiler and give a trigger warning in future.

Main Paineframe posted:

New proposed law would allow courts to dismantle any NGO for physically or verbally attacking the IDF or any of its active soldiers.

I'm assuming this is one of those far right "Here's a law that won't actually ever be passed through the knessett, just to throw some red meat to the right-wing extremist base" type laws that seems to crop up every now and again. Hopefully someone can confirm because this is very hosed up.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

corn in the bible posted:

I agree, Israel should be forcibly moved away from the predominantly Islamic region of the Middle East

Counterpoint: the predominantly Islamic region of the Middle East should be returned to the Arabian peninsula from whence it came.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

ungulateman
Apr 18, 2012

pretentious fuckwit who isn't half as literate or insightful or clever as he thinks he is

Maoist Pussy posted:

Counterpoint: the predominantly Islamic region of the Middle East should be returned to the Arabian peninsula from whence it came.

Let's all go back to the Horn of Africa, where homo sapiens sapiens evolved. Everything else would be in defiance of international law. :psyduck:

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

Maoist Pussy posted:

Counterpoint: the predominantly Islamic region of the Middle East should be returned to the Arabian peninsula from whence it came.

If those civilians wanted to live they shouldn't have been born there!

MonsieurChoc
Oct 12, 2013

Every species can smell its own extinction.

ungulateman posted:

Let's all go back to the Horn of Africa, where homo sapiens sapiens evolved. Everything else would be in defiance of international law. :psyduck:

Actually, most white people have some percentage of Australopithecus in them.

Africans are the "purest" race. Is that irony or just funny? Anyway, gently caress racists.

Cat Mattress
Jul 14, 2012

by Cyrano4747
Don't you mean Neanderthals? Australopithecus is an ancestor to the entire Homo genus.

The Insect Court
Nov 22, 2012

by FactsAreUseless

Main Paineframe posted:

I said Zionist organizations, so why are you suggesting Jewish organizations that have little to do with Zionism?

Pretty sure both AIPAC and Hillel support the existence of a Jewish state, so yeah, they're Zionist organizations.

Main Paineframe posted:

Zionist organizations often intentionally act to cast and encourage such suspicions, in order to stoke antisemitism

Now that we've got that out of the way, let's go back to how you were going to tell us how antisemitism is caused by those nasty Zionists who stir it up intentionally?

And before you get all weepy about how I'm making insinuations about your perfectly above board arguments, let me help you by being explicit: The claim that Jews are to blame for antisemitism is absolutely a well-known antisemitic canard.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
You know at a certain point when someone says "ethnic cleansing is good" we can just collectively roll our eyes and move on with the discussion, he's either a troll or a massive bigot (or both).

Continuing the Im Tirzu shitstorm the great ginger hope MK Stav Shaffir has publicly called to pass legislation that bans the organization, further cementing the fact that the Israeli labor party is also full of idiots.

Maoist Pussy
Feb 12, 2014

by Lowtax

emanresu tnuocca posted:

You know at a certain point when someone says "ethnic cleansing is good" we can just collectively roll our eyes and move on with the discussion, he's either a troll or a massive bigot (or both).

Continuing the Im Tirzu shitstorm the great ginger hope MK Stav Shaffir has publicly called to pass legislation that bans the organization, further cementing the fact that the Israeli labor party is also full of idiots.

Alternatively, when someone uses a word that implies mass murder to actually describe 'resettling landless people', you can assume he is being disingenuous. Also when he uses an insult implying racial hatred to anyone who disagrees with him.

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emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

by Athanatos
Ethnic cleansing implies ethnic cleansing, what you are proposing is ethnic cleansing. Your usage of the term 'landless people' is very 19th century zionist, very good.

I guess you weren't present in this thread the last time I was called a genocide apologist but I actually distinguish between ethnic cleansing and all forms of mass murder and genocide, so you might be barking up the wrong tree.

And I'm sorry but I have little qualms about calling someone who unreservedly calls for ethnic cleansing a racist cause well.. you are?

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