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SyHopeful posted:I'm curious as to when Finicum's pickup got the bullhole in the windshield -- possibly as he tried to run the roadblock? Apparently the FBI did say they shot at the truck when he tried to run the roadblock. Is there a picture of it with a bullet hole though? Lotka Volterra posted:But no, you see, there's a muzzle flash and he is clearly just shot in the side!!!! Do guns even make a muzzle flash that could be seen in camera in those conditions (a camera on a goddamn airplane for that matter)
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Jan 29, 2016 18:32
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Just to add a little detail to what happens on a felony stop, here is what likely happened: A felony stop, or a high risk stop, is a standard law enforcement procedure taught in substantially the same way to every local, state and federal agency I am familiar with. It is used when you are arresting someone wanted for a felony, known to be armed and/or hostile, or otherwise dangerous in a way that would make you hesitant to approach the vehicle in the open. In its stripped down basics, you want the target car stopped approximately 10-20 yards in front of three police vehicles abreast of each other. You want three officers, minimum: one to give commands, one to go hands on, and one to provide lethal cover with a long gun. You can expand it to more officers by adding more lethal cover, preferably from positions providing better visibility / shooting lanes on and in the vehicle, and more officers to go hands on. Done correctly, you do not want to have more than one officer giving commands to the suspects. The goal is to control every aspect of the suspects exiting the vehicle, moving back toward you, and being taken into custody. Once you have the vehicle stopped and are in position, you order the vehicle to be turned off, keys tossed out the door or placed on top of the cab, etc. You then start giving very specific commands: driver put both your hands out the window; driver, with your LEFT HAND open the door from the OUTSIDE; driver keep your hands in the air; driver SLOWLY exit the vehicle and FACE AWAY from the sound of my voice; driver interlace your fingers behind your head; driver SLOWLY walk back toward the sound of my voice; driver keep going keep going keep going driver STOP. Etc. For everyone in the vehicle. You give these commands until, one by one, you get the suspects to move back toward your position and either prone them out or put them on their knees so your hands-on guys can cuff and search them. If they fail to comply, you repeat orders and make threats. Driver we have a warrant for your arrest. Turn the vehicle off now. If you do not turn the vehicle off we are sending in the dog. Etc. I say this to give some context to what Finicum's expectations and understanding of the situation were. He sat still at the first traffic stop for somewhere between four and eight minutes. It is very likely that for that entire period of time he was being given very specific instructions. So it is very unlikely that by the time Finicum got to the road block and crashed he had any reason whatsoever to think "oh gosh i have no idea what is expected of me now, I had better immediately jump and start moving fast." I think the video speaks for itself; if pretty much anyone else who is not a white conservative flees a traffic stop at high speed, attempts to evade a roadblock, jumps out, starts running, puts his hands in his pockets, and turns to face the cops, there is no controversy whatsoever. If your grandmother did that sequence of things and got shot, it would probably be a good shoot. But since the rules are somehow different for these guys, and it is for some reason more necessary to dot every i and cross every t after this guy is a violent rear end in a top hat for a month, there it is. It is vanishingly unlikely Finicum didn't know exactly what was expected of him when he chose to jump out of the truck and start running.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:32
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Levitate posted:Apparently the FBI did say they shot at the truck when he tried to run the roadblock. Is there a picture of it with a bullet hole though? I'd really like to know where people are getting this information. The only source I've seen is Lavoyans claiming they see bullet holes in the windshield. And they've also claimed he was shot at at the first stop.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:33
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E-Tank posted:So Prester, what do you think will come of this? I'm kind of guessing that the FBI want the four to stay in there and stew a bit more, hence why they've not said 'fine we'll let whatshisname go' and then totally renege on that offer. Kind of a victory lap of 'Oh hey, look at that. Nobody is coming. Nobody is coming to try and save you. All these people are pissant little keyboard warriors' I'm the short through medium term this is going to throw a massive amount of water on the liberty movement. They'play scream and concoct all sorts of bizarre conspiracy theories about this, but I expect it will never quite some time before a militia tries to issue a call to arms again. For now I think the threat these groups pose has been severely reduced. In the long term this means that the next militia event will be athe a target that is not quite so easily as a bird sanctuary in the literal middle of nowhere. Their collective pride is wounded, and eventually the embarrassment they feel will give way to rage. These people want their big fuckoff firefight and they will seek it again someday. If I had to take a stable at it, I expect the most likely time for another event like this will be from the explosion of rage that is going to happen when the Narrativists supporting Trump/Cruz realize that they are not going to sweep into power in 2016. Basically Trump/Cruz represent a very large block of Narrativists that are currently undergoing the largest Compaction cycle that I have ever observed. They belive they can obtain power through organized voting. When reality slaps them in the face they not handle it well.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:34
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As a Millennial I posted:I'd really like to know where people are getting this information. The only source I've seen is Lavoyans claiming they see bullet holes in the windshield. And they've also claimed he was shot at at the first stop. Someone here said the FBI stated during questions at the press conference that they fired at the truck at the roadblock. Maybe I'll see if I can run down a transcript of that
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Jan 29, 2016 18:36
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As a Millennial I posted:So just to be clear, unless this detail came out in questioning, no, they didn't shoot at the truck as it approached the roadblock. It did. He explained the truck being considered a lethal weapon thing and stated that they did open fire as the truck tried to run the roadblock.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:40
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Levitate posted:Do guns even make a muzzle flash that could be seen in camera in those conditions (a camera on a goddamn airplane for that matter) Guns sane people would carry? No. Presumably, you would be able to see the muzzle flare from a shotgun firing Dragon's Breath rounds, but those are both highly illegal and really stupid.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:40
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Shbobdb posted:Yes, cops breaking windows and tasering people because they didn't show the cop enough respect is pretty solid proof that cops aren't all bad. Respect? They didn't comply, period and resisted because"Imma special snowflake!".
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Jan 29, 2016 18:45
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Prester Jane posted:I'm certain the last four would have emerged as folk heroes that heroically held the line against an overwhelming FBI army while bullets peppered their positions if this was still the 80's and livestreaming didn't exist. Thanks (once again) to the seditionists broadcasting everything they do though we've been treated to the sad scene yesterday morning where porklins and his very pregnant wife were slow dancing while surrounded by piles of trash. So all they look like is especially pathetic losers that decided to keep watching for FBI death squads by building a campfire while smoking weed and gettng drunk. Quick question: was Lavoy the guy who was crying about the other guy who took all the booze and drank it all in a motel? And the guy who threw all the dildos onto the floor?
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Jan 29, 2016 18:47
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Not sure who was mad on video about the booze man, but it was Ritzheimer (of 'daddy took an oath' and 'im going to drive to new york and gently caress up some muslims' fame) who shoved the dildos off the table.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:49
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The closest thing I've found so far is this article that says "As officers trailed in a black SUV and fired shots at the truck, it rounded two bends in the road, then rammed into a snowbank to avoid a police roadblock." Not seeing transcripts of the questioning, trying to find a video of the whole press conference.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:50
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Another update: No, the armed militants will not be released to go start another standoff. Big surprise there.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:52
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Yeahhh I'd be pretty surprised if the chasing vehicles were firing shots like some kind of movie car chase. They knew they had a road block up ahead and there's nothing to suggest they were shooting at the back of the truck
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Jan 29, 2016 18:53
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Levitate posted:Yeahhh I'd be pretty surprised if the chasing vehicles were firing shots like some kind of movie car chase. They knew they had a road block up ahead and there's nothing to suggest they were shooting at the back of the truck The chasing vehicles weren't. Officers at the barricade opened fire when it became clear he was going to try to ram through.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:55
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Ratoslov posted:Guns sane people would carry? No. Presumably, you would be able to see the muzzle flare from a shotgun firing Dragon's Breath rounds, but those are both highly illegal and really stupid. But man would they be sweet for home defense. Farmers home fire insurance will cover me, right?
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Jan 29, 2016 18:58
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kartikeya posted:The chasing vehicles weren't. Officers at the barricade opened fire when it became clear he was going to try to ram through. Yeah I meant to say the way that article is worded it reads as though the chasing vehicles were firing shots
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Jan 29, 2016 19:00
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Levitate posted:Apparently the FBI did say they shot at the truck when he tried to run the roadblock. Is there a picture of it with a bullet hole though? Well, situation depending. A pistol flash would be small and quick. Quick enough that a normal camera at a normal frame rate could miss it, much like how strobes don't show really well on camera unless they're slowed down. And against something like snow....you'd be better off watching the officers react to recoil
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Jan 29, 2016 19:01
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Levitate posted:Yeah I meant to say the way that article is worded it reads as though the chasing vehicles were firing shots It doesn't just "read as though," it explicitly states that. Watched the video again and I see what people are calling a bullet hole on the windshield, but I'd still really like to see an actual source just so I know we're not getting caught up in some mass delusion.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:02
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Tarp man! Ah-AAAAAAA-AAAHHHH! Fighter of the G-man! Ah-AAAAAAA-AAAHHHH! Tried to pull his gun! Ah-AAAAAAA-AAAHHHH! You're a master of bad driving, and dying, for being dumb. Tarp man!
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Jan 29, 2016 19:02
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Darkman Fanpage posted:They're gonna kill and eat David Fry. For the good of the cause, of course. Nominative determinism strikes Mr. Fry.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:03
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As a Millennial I posted:It doesn't just "read as though," it explicitly states that. Watched the video again and I see what people are calling a bullet hole on the windshield, but I'd still really like to see an actual source just so I know we're not getting caught up in some mass delusion. I thought it was just some papers on the dashboard, assuming we're talking about the same thing (white spot on the wind shield lower middle-drivers side). Looking at earlier in the video, you can see a white spot in the same location while the truck is initially stopped
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Jan 29, 2016 19:11
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theflyingorc posted:Tarp man! Knight fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 19:14
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Levitate posted:I thought it was just some papers on the dashboard, assuming we're talking about the same thing (white spot on the wind shield lower middle-drivers side). Looking at earlier in the video, you can see a white spot in the same location while the truck is initially stopped Oh dear. I'm becoming one of them, aren't I?
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Jan 29, 2016 19:14
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As a Millennial I posted:Oh dear. I'm becoming one of them, aren't I? Only if your conclusion is then that they must have shot out the windshield before the stop even occured
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Jan 29, 2016 19:20
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Levitate posted:Only if your conclusion is then that they must have shot out the windshield before the stop even occured Frankly, the lack of reported accidental discharges by these idiots has been rather impressive.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:21
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SocketWrench posted:Respect? They didn't comply, period and resisted because"Imma special snowflake!". Non-compliance means death or bodily injury! Remember: cops are your friends. It looks like Sovcits are right, there are certain magic words you can say to short circuit the legal system. Unfortunately, a short circuit results in getting tasered or killed. USA! USA!
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Jan 29, 2016 19:34
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Prester Jane posted:I'm certain the last four would have emerged as folk heroes that heroically held the line against an overwhelming FBI army while bullets peppered their positions if this was still the 80's and livestreaming didn't exist. [...] They are probably alive, though, aren't they? I mean, the FBI would have heard if there were any shots, or seen bodies losing heat otherwise.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:35
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Buncha provocateurs in this thread
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Jan 29, 2016 19:35
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As long as they tape their tazering I am pro sovcit.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:38
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Oh boy, looks like the leftovers have had a nap https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/status/693117552671662080 https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/status/693128295701807104 https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/status/693138642886209537 https://twitter.com/JohnLGC/status/693140863027802112
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Jan 29, 2016 19:39
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quote:Sean Anderson says LaVoy Finicum's death is like "another waco." Says he's "ready for them." Sean's balls grew 3 sizes this morning.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:40
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Fry needs to man up then and livestream his death
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Jan 29, 2016 19:43
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Shbobdb posted:Non-compliance means death or bodily injury! Remember: cops are your friends. I, too, am outraged that if you refuse to follow lawful orders of the police they can eventually force you to comply.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:46
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Lol, "barb oathkeeper" unironically referring to the "lamestream media" on NAT stream.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:46
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I really hope they capture the remaining 4 people alive
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Jan 29, 2016 19:48
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Sean "porkins" single handedly crippled the movement by yelling into the camera and stuff. Welp. e;https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXbuP19AWDM
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Jan 29, 2016 19:52
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Levitate posted:I really hope they capture the remaining 4 people alive
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Jan 29, 2016 19:53
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Knight posted:It's a little cruel, but I hope they leave them out there until they beg to come back. I don't want to see another shooting. Yeah, odds are good Sean is gonna have a bit of testosterone and adrenaline shoot through him when confronted and pull a Finnicum.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:54
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"Yes I have actually used my own money to bail patriots out of jail. No I have not been paid back." -Barb Oathkeeper
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Jan 29, 2016 19:56
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MariusLecter posted:Sean "porkins" single handedly crippled the movement by yelling into the camera and stuff. What's going on?
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Jan 29, 2016 19:56
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