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Just put fred on ignore and move along. Last couple of days have been a bit quiet, why is marching so slow in this game? What is it based on?
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Jan 29, 2016 09:21
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Drone posted:How many times do you need to shill your product? Didn't you already get probated for that once? Which product..?
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Jan 29, 2016 09:24
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Splode posted:Just put fred on ignore and move along. Please don't use my name. Real names are not popular here. Too much reality, I suppose.... 
fredleander fucked around with this message at 09:29 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 09:27
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fredleander posted:Please don't use my name. Real names are not popular here. Too much reality, I suppose.... You are quite literally the dumbest person I've ever come across, and I was in the army with a bunch of dudes from Mississippi.
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Jan 29, 2016 09:33
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Splode posted:Last couple of days have been a bit quiet, why is marching so slow in this game? What is it based on? I'm only 85% sure of my understanding of this particular part of the mechanics, so take this with a grain of salt, but: The number of miles covered by a land unit, per day, is largely determined by whether it is tagged as an foot unit or an armored/mechanized unit in the game's database. There's a base movement rate, adjusted for the terrain, for the presence of one of a number of types of road, and for the unit's movement mode. Being in "Movement Mode" means you travel faster than being in "Combat Mode", but getting caught in Movement Mode is bad for the whole not-getting-shot part. There's also Strategic Movement Mode, which represents the unit being packed up into trains and railed across hexes, and that's even faster, but it requires a couple of days just get packed into trains, and then you can't enter that mode anywhere since you need to be at a base with rail access, and then getting caught in combat while being in this mode is even worse than being in Movement Mode. (as an aside, units need to be in Strategic Movement Mode before they can be transported into ships) Where I think there is some breakdown in this kind of modelling is that the base movement rate is not really based on the status or specific composition of the unit, only its foot/mechanized definition in the DB, and the terrain, and the movement mode. This is sort of okay in the context of it being the Pacific War and all - you've got to march everywhere, and you're going to amphibiously land most places anyway, and it's always going to feel slow as far as the game is only advancing one day at a time because that means it takes multiple turns to cross a single hex even under the best of conditions, but you do get some edge cases where the US and Soviet forces will feel like they move way too slow for being such a super-mechanized army compared to the Japanese. (as yet another aside, in the non-Admiral's Edition version of WITP, it was the other way around: the land movement model was less detailed and more liberal than the one here such that it was possible for the Japanese to create an armored doomstack and blitz across China) gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 10:07
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fredleander posted:Please don't use my name. Real names are not popular here. Too much reality, I suppose.... Your username is your real name you loving idiot, I can't help that. Please check yourself into a retirement home without internet access. gradenko_2000 posted:movement stuff Thanks, that makes sense. I guess it is better than the alternative, and it probably is pretty slow to move around if you're carefully advancing on foot
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Jan 29, 2016 11:32
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Splode posted:Your username is your real name you loving idiot, I can't help that. Please check yourself into a retirement home without internet access. They do exist...  ...?(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 29, 2016 11:50
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Also, marching through jungle is murder even if you're not being deliberately mistreated. I hate to think how hard it would be to get even a mountain gun through serious rainforest undergrowth.
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Jan 29, 2016 15:02
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goatface posted:Also, marching through jungle is murder even if you're not being deliberately mistreated. I hate to think how hard it would be to get even a mountain gun through serious rainforest undergrowth. Even just marching regular infantry through jungle is murder. Take for example this famous picture of Chindits marching down a jungle path. You might notice that some of the men are walking around pantsless. That's because they had dysentery that was so bad that it was impossible for them to drop trou in time without making GBS threads themselves, so they just went without. 
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Jan 29, 2016 19:57
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 Zeroisanumber. Literally had the exact same thought I did. I would also like to add that it's plainly difficult to move a lot of people any amount of distance in any amount of time. Plus, in this time period, armies weren't completely mechanized(especially in 1942!), so the average soldier got from point A to point B on the power of his two feet. So, combine the fact that everyone is walking the whole way, and the fact that you have to feed/clothe/water and fight with these dudes, most military divisions moved slow as gently caress - probably less than two kilometers per hour in the best of terrain. Now complicate this fact with A. Most of 'roads' in the Pacific are little better than trails. B. The weather is gonna be a bitch and turn those trails into little more than mud, and C. People are sick, tired, or wounded, and you can see why it takes so long for troops to march anywhere in this game.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:07
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gradenko_2000 posted:Moving There's also reserve mode, which moves as fast as move mode but doesn't have the combat penalty.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:14
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uPen posted:There's also reserve mode, which moves as fast as move mode but doesn't have the combat penalty. An unwise man would ask what the benefit of Move Mode is. A wise man would ignore it and just enjoy the narrative. I am an unwise man.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:01
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You have to move 46 miles to leave a hex. Specifically, you move 23 miles at the rate based on the terrain of the hex you are in, and 23 miles at the rate based on the terrain of the hex you are moving towards. For infantry in move mode in a rough jungle with no road or path, your maximum move speed is 4 miles per day. That can be reduced based on fatigue. So its like 12 days minimum to go one hex. Also, if you change your mind and direct your unit in a different direction, your move counter gets reset to 0 and you have to start all over again.  goatface posted:Also, marching through jungle is murder even if you're not being deliberately mistreated. I hate to think how hard it would be to get even a mountain gun through serious rainforest undergrowth. Artillery moves 2 miles a day in rough jungle, so 23 days! pthighs fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 21:03
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There are many things that WITP does really well. Land combat is not one of them.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:05
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Zeroisanumber posted:That's because they had dysentery that was so bad that it was impossible for them to drop trou in time without making GBS threads themselves, so they just went without. How I envy those guys, always warm. I spent 40 years on and off in the Norwegian army. Training and exercises were mostly during the winter, and we always lived in tents. If you can do that summer outdoor life doesn't bother you very much. A normal day's ski march was 50 clicks, 30-40 kg. backpack and three men working each sledge. And 50 clicks back to where we came from the next day. 12 hours each way. Prepped ski tracks..?...forget it. Well, for the Ranger platoon, anyway. Normal temperatures 20-30 below Celsius. Some times below 40. making GBS threads? Once I didn't poo poo between Monday and Friday. No problem, we consumed so much energy, and froze so much, that there wasn't much left to poo poo. But, when we had to it was done in a second or two - guess why. Fluids? Melted snow. Bad weather...? We dug snow caves. Problem is a good squad snow cave takes 4-5 hours to build. Finished around midnight. When you wake up in the morning the roof in the narrow space had sunk down on your nose. Some never took that, always preferred to sleep on the outside. No, nobody fired at us. Would probably have given us some warmth back. Now I'm half doubled from rheumatism. fredleander fucked around with this message at 22:49 on Jan 29, 2016 |
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Jan 29, 2016 22:40
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fredleander posted:I had a harder time in a peacetime military than guys who literally went without pants in the jungle because they had the shits so bad they didn't have time to drop trou, had to fight the Japanese in that condition, and suffered massive casualties. Because being cold and uncomfortable is hell, man. Tell us more.
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Jan 29, 2016 23:08
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   We pick off a small ship in a small convoy.   This almost seems to be a waste of a torpedo.  The brutal fighting at Changsha continues, but the AV is now firmly in our favour.   We continue to hit Bataan from the air.   Not much to comment on, I just need more troops in Bataan to allow me to break the defenders and begin the plans to move on.  Ha ha, We won!
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Jan 29, 2016 23:11
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Grey Hunter posted:
It's an early war Mk XIV, technically firing the thing was a waste of a torpedo!
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Jan 29, 2016 23:19
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Ardeem posted:It's an early war Mk XIV, technically firing the thing was a waste of a torpedo! Either way, nothing of value was lost.
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Jan 30, 2016 00:08
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McNally posted:Tell us more. You don't want me to withdraw to an internet-free rest home...?
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Jan 30, 2016 00:24
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Grey Hunter posted:
Those are some bigass rivers, what's the largest ship you can sail in there to provide fire support? Can you get some use from the Kongo's?
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Jan 30, 2016 01:40
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Ardeem posted:It's an early war Mk XIV, technically firing the thing was a waste of a torpedo! Against a boat that small even if the torpedo didn't explode it probably still would've sunk it
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Jan 30, 2016 02:03
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What even is it? Some sort of converted trawler?
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Jan 30, 2016 02:15
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Splode posted:Against a boat that small even if the torpedo didn't explode it probably still would've sunk it So does WITP model that torpedo roaming the seas, righting wrongs and romancing?
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Jan 30, 2016 02:40
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It'll be crazy if Changsha falls before all the forts are gone. Have we seen that happen before?
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Jan 30, 2016 03:45
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pthighs posted:You have to move 46 miles to leave a hex. Specifically, you move 23 miles at the rate based on the terrain of the hex you are in, and 23 miles at the rate based on the terrain of the hex you are moving towards. What's the minimum time to reenact the Soviet invasion of Manchuria? 
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Jan 30, 2016 04:27
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fredleander posted:They do exist... How have you managed to not figure out how emoticons work yet?
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Jan 30, 2016 04:43
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James Garfield posted:What's the minimum time to reenact the Soviet invasion of Manchuria? According to the manual, base movement rate for armor is rated at 30 miles per 12 hours, or 2.5 miles per hour. It's about 9 hexes from the Soviet border near Mutankiang to the city of Mukden, which we know was reached by Soviet forces in 11 days. 9 hexes comes out to 414 miles by WITP's scale, so 414 miles / 2.5 miles per hour comes out to 6.9 days Of course, that doesn't factor in combat, or rougher terrain, or combat, or reduced movement speed from fatigue, so you've got a 4-turn margin of error!
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Jan 30, 2016 04:49
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im late for the derail but i wanted to say, i had a pretty good public school education but i was taught in 8th grade that the united states won the vietnam war also in florida elementary school every friday they'd wheel a tv in there and have us sing along to this instead of the pledge, and when he says 'stand up *cymbal crash*' we all stood up. fun times in florida in the '90s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFcuR34Gg-o god drat they got me too, just hearing this song gets my loving hormones going. gently caress education i can still sing along. i can't not sing along the video does have some elements of the american wwii mythos i honestly know all the words to this song, i haven't thought about this since 2001 when we played a concert band version of this in high school band on account of  and the idiot with the cymbals couldn't figure out the loving cymbal solo. and there weren't any words to that one
oystertoadfish fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Jan 30, 2016 |
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Jan 30, 2016 10:43
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  drat them, they have armed their policemen! Of wait, they are rules by America, that's normal for them. I forgot I wasn't fighting a civilized country in the Philippines.  It would be nice to know this is doing something.   Our troops hit the beaches on Mandao, as we push forward on the small bases. I have to keep the momentum up somehow!  We have a go at attacking Johore Batau, its bloody, but we reduce their forts and disable a good number of squads. We do have to disband one of our units however.  A shock attack as Changsha hurts the enemy much more than it hurts us, I think this is the way to go now.  Deeper inland we force the enemy to retreat once more.  We then cut the rail line to Changsha. This will make getting supplies incountry harder.  While a bloody day, we made some advances. Fresh troops will be landing in Johore soon from the north, which should trip the scales firmly in our direction.
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Jan 30, 2016 16:54
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What flag is that over Manado? It's not USA or UK. It looks like a sideways French flag.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:05
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LLSix posted:What flag is that over Manado? It's not USA or UK. It looks like a sideways French flag. Uhhh.... the Netherlands.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:08
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LLSix posted:What flag is that over Manado? It's not USA or UK. It looks like a sideways French flag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tO5wUafJgTQ&t=89s
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Jan 30, 2016 17:12
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Drone posted:Uhhh.... the Netherlands. Thank you! I can't think of a not-stupid way of asking this but I'm still curious so I'm going to ask anyways. What nations does this game model? All of them get lumped directly under Allied(PAC-COM)/Japanese control right? Even the Chinese communists are treated as allied units if I remember right?
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Jan 30, 2016 17:16
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LLSix posted:Thank you! As far as I remember, yeah, there are only two camps, allies and Japanese, and as you pointed out even the different Chinese factions work together. From the top of my mind I think the US, the USSR, the Great Is Manchukuo even modelled? I seem to remember it isn't.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:20
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RNZN are definitely present, though they don't have many ships. Are India in as an entity or are they just under Britain?
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Jan 30, 2016 17:25
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goatface posted:Are India in as an entity or are they just under Britain? Indian bases all have a British flag on them. Canada is also in-game, mainly just for anti-submarine patrols on the West Coast.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:28
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Canada is modeled, too  Mostly as the two doomed battalions sent to Hong Kong in 1941 and as part of the British Pacific fleet sent in 1945, though. e: Because of the weird semi-spherical projection the game uses, Canada is physically modeled from Vancouver all the way to Winnipeg, you can almost drive clear to Ontario.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:28
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Can anyone knowledgeable suggest what the advantages of this particular projection are, and why it was probably chosen?
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Jan 30, 2016 17:34
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It might just be what they had.
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Jan 30, 2016 17:41
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