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happyhippy posted:If only Hitler said that, that he was just camping OUTSIDE of France and not actually occupying it. Hilter was not occupying France anymore than it should be. Like, what does that last line mean? We aren't occupying it anymore than it should be. It should be occupied, but they aren't occupying it more than necessary?
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Jan 31, 2016 19:16
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Fionnoula posted:New York TImes reporter spoke to David Fry. They are indeed camping outside in order to PROVE that they aren't actually occupying the refuge (because apparently only the buildings matter?) and therefore hey aren't actually hostile. Just camping. Okay, even if that was true, when the nice man from the FBI tells you to get out, you're supposed to actually listen.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:17
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Shawna Cox was apparently released on bail. Aaaand immediately started doing phone-in interviews with her version of the attempted mass murder by law enforcement (spoiler alert: they were saved from the *hundreds of bullets* shot into the occupied truck by prayer) She did one last night on Periscope, this dude recorded it and put it on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVfZyjVl4U Apparently she's got plans to do more interviews tonight. In other news, her son in law was apparently killed in a house fire last night (or the night before? not sure) and now there's some wingnut plan to get a private plane to take her home because she's got not way to get on a commercial plane. The claim is that her i.d. was left behind at the refuge or something. Want to bet it's really that she's got court appearances and isn't actually allowed to leave the state? I bet her lawyer is thrilled with these shenanigans.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:18
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The Clicen Bundy letter is really revealing in its use of the word "inspired", a word that has clear implications in fundamentalist circles. He's basically stating that the US constitution is divinely inspired by God. It's a common idea that America is here to be THE godly nation in some interpretations, but claiming "inspiration" is apart the same thing as calling the constitution scripture. Which says a lot, really.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:20
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Fionnoula posted:Shawna Cox was apparently released on bail. Aaaand immediately started doing phone-in interviews with her version of the attempted mass murder by law enforcement (spoiler alert: they were saved from the *hundreds of bullets* shot into the occupied truck by prayer) She did one last night on Periscope, this dude recorded it and put it on youtube: Her kid died last night? drat, she may be an insurrectionist moron, but that's hosed up.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:23
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Guess what, they believe it is.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:25
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Mr Interweb posted:Her kid died last night? drat, she may be an insurrectionist moron, but that's hosed up. Son in law. And whether it happened or not it's just an excuse to flee.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:26
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Yeah, pretty sure when you're released on bail you're not really supposed to go very far. I mean, it's basically just a promise to return for the hearing/trial, but getting a "don't go anywhere" condition is probably a given for this bunch. Plus the whole "they may actually be on the no-fly list" thing now.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:33
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Man I've been binging through some of the recent news articles and I am savoring some of the sweetest schadenfruit: Bail denied to militia leaders claiming that the occupation was totes peaceful and was never meant to be armed. quote:Over the past two days, Bundy has also issued statements through his lawyers asking the remaining militants to leave the refuge. Ammon Bundy's wife does 180, now pleading for militants to surrender. quote:Earlier this week, Lisa Bundy released an audio recording to the Oregonian, also urging an end to the occupation, now in it’s 28th day. Low on supplies, militants are losing the war of attrition. quote:He said the four had eaten scrambled eggs for breakfast, and had spoken with their families Wednesday night. ISIS supporter and antisemite David Fry nervous about "weird" stuff happening to him in prison. Butt stuff. quote:“If they come in to arrest then they’re going to throw us behind bars where weird poo poo would happen,” Fry said. David Fry is a crazy, crazy rear end in a top hat. quote:Online, Fry is quick to engage with anyone willing to listen, and even some of those who are not. A believer in vast conspiracies, especially those centered in his ancestral home of Japan, Fry comes off as bombastic, paranoid and angry. In defending his anti-Semitic posts, he wrote on his Google+ account, “ZIONIST JEWS ARE NOT TRUE JEWS!”
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Jan 31, 2016 19:37
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Turtle Sandbox posted:They really believe rancher is something more than a profession don't they? You can't be any geek off the street. Gotta be handy with the constitution if you know what I mean, earn your tarp. 
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Jan 31, 2016 19:41
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Is David Fry the fat guy in that "last dance" video?
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Jan 31, 2016 19:42
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Anosmoman posted:In many ways they seem to be lost in time. The premise that all wealth is created from land and freeing it for exploitation will usher in a golden age in rural nowhere is about 50 years out of date. The New Yorker had a great article about this, called "Bundynomics". quote:Ammon Bundy, the leader of the armed militia that stormed the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, in Oregon, has a simple solution for fixing the economy of the West: get the federal government out of the way. His group’s chief demand is that the federal government hand over all of Malheur to local control. The ultimate goal, he says, is “to get the logger back to logging, to get the rancher back to ranching, to get the miner back to mining.” Bundy’s tactics make him easy to dismiss as a kook, but his ideology is squarely in the mainstream of Western conservatism, with its hostility to government ownership, skepticism about environmental rules, and conviction that individual enterprise is being strangled by government regulations. Would calling these guys anarcho-Georgists work? William Bear fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 19:44
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Mr Interweb posted:Is David Fry the fat guy in that "last dance" video? Skinny guy in his late 20s with the mustauche. Has been compared to Kylo Ren. Moderately handsome but lanky enough that it'd probably be like making love to a bag of antlers if he became a prison wife (which is a terrible institutional problem in the American prison system and should be fixed).
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Jan 31, 2016 19:46
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Mr Interweb posted:Is David Fry the fat guy in that "last dance" video? No, Fry is Kylo Meth.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:47
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Mr Interweb posted:Is David Fry the fat guy in that "last dance" video? David Fry is the greasy Kylo Ren. The fat guy and his wife are Sean and Sandy Anderson (Andersen?). He's the guy who uses the same facebook account to declare war on the feds and follow sexy lady feet pages.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:50
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ShadowCatboy posted:Skinny guy in his late 20s with the mustauche. Has been compared to Kylo Ren. Moderately handsome but lanky enough that it'd probably be like making love to a bag of antlers if he became a prison wife (which is a terrible institutional problem in the American prison system and should be fixed). I must admit I had not ruminated on what it would be like to have sex with David Fry.
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Jan 31, 2016 19:53
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How much is known about the fourth guy, Jeff something I think?
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Jan 31, 2016 19:55
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"Why should we have to face consequences for our actions!" ~ Party of personal responsibility. How long until the three of them decide to eat the fat one for nourishment?
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Jan 31, 2016 20:00
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E-Tank posted:"Why should we have to face consequences for our actions!" ~ Party of personal responsibility. If they did that they wouldn't need to hang out in the woods anymore.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:00
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Hermetic posted:You can't be any geek off the street. Gotta be handy with the constitution if you know what I mean, earn your tarp. RANCHERS, mount up!
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Jan 31, 2016 20:02
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Is anyone else starting to wish the Feds would take a harder line? My sympathy....nowhere to be found anymore.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:04
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wontondestruction posted:Is anyone else starting to wish the Feds would take a harder line? My sympathy....nowhere to be found anymore. Again, the longer these four chucklefucks stay there, the longer everyone sees that the 'liberty' and 'militia' movements are too chickenshit to do anything. Here we have four men calling for backup, demanding to know where everyone else is, and asking them to pretty please with sugar on top to come and save their dumbasses. Every single jackass who has to fondle a gun and think about shooting a federal agent before he can get it up will now have to ask themselves if their so called allies will actually support them. If it was not good PR for the FBI to let them still keep on being there, they wouldn't be there. They're not only going to be arrested, they are going to be paraded around as proof that all these anti-government militias talk a big talk, but when put to the test they'll end up abandoning their 'comrades in arms' every time. It's kind of ironic really, it's their idea of taxes and welfare but in terms of fighting. "People who need help should get help. . .Just not from my taxes." "Someone should go and support those brave patriots. . .Just not me."
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Jan 31, 2016 20:11
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Twitter is afire with reports from Oregon Public Broadcasting that communications are going down. The Andersons' phones are bricks, David Fry is stating that his phone can receive but cannot make calls, no internet, and the landlines to the refuge buildings are supposedly dead as well.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:17
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E-Tank posted:Again, the longer these four chucklefucks stay there, the longer everyone sees that the 'liberty' and 'militia' movements are too chickenshit to do anything. Here we have four men calling for backup, demanding to know where everyone else is, and asking them to pretty please with sugar on top to come and save their dumbasses. Every single jackass who has to fondle a gun and think about shooting a federal agent before he can get it up will now have to ask themselves if their so called allies will actually support them. If it was not good PR for the FBI to let them still keep on being there, they wouldn't be there. They're not only going to be arrested, they are going to be paraded around as proof that all these anti-government militias talk a big talk, but when put to the test they'll end up abandoning their 'comrades in arms' every time. Yeah I've been wondering recently if the "we have a warrant out for Sean Andersen's arrest, the rest of you guys can leave" is mean to be some reverse-psychology FBI mindfuck to get them to park their asses and squat there even longer. The more this drags out the more sad and pathetic and small militia movements seem. Sure it's bad for the locals who have to live in the county, but if your goal is to prevent further acts of sedition this is a masterstroke.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:17
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wontondestruction posted:Is anyone else starting to wish the Feds would take a harder line? My sympathy....nowhere to be found anymore. May as well wait them out. They're doing nothing but embarrassing themselves, and there's only so long they can hold out given that they insist on living outside in the winter. The chance that they hurt anybody if the FBI goes in seems pretty remote, but all the same it doesn't seem like there's really any point in taking it.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:23
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E-Tank posted:Again, the longer these four chucklefucks stay there, the longer everyone sees that the 'liberty' and 'militia' movements are too chickenshit to do anything. Recall also that there's a judge in Burns that has promised to charge each and every insurrectionist for the costs the town, county and state have endured. That was stated as $70,000.00 per day and I truly hope that each and every one of these assholes carries that financial obligation around with them until they've paid it off. Sure they probably don't pay taxes but a few hundred thousand per person accruing interest will make getting a new Walmark credit card more of a challenge and a court order can cost them a house or car without much difficulty.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:23
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Lead out in cuffs posted:Someone earlier in the thread posted an excerpt from Finicum's novel, in which the obvious self-insert has been apprehended and interrogated by the evil government agents, but manages to pull out a handgun and kill them all. Can someone quote this excerpt again? I was never able to find it.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:23
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Small note in reaction to the Cliven tirade, bureaucrats are the only thing that prevent massive government corruption. The fact that the definition of it on google includes the line particular "one perceived as being concerned with procedural correctness at the expense of people's needs" is something anyone that has even minor collectivism leanings needs to start fighting against yesterday. They're far more vital to society than those who usually argue everyone should have a seat at the table in defining government policy. Sell all government assests and have no government regulation is not a sane deserves a seat at the table of policy discussion position, comparatively. RuanGacho fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 20:26
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SLAMMYsosa posted:Can someone quote this excerpt again? I was never able to find it.   Originally saw it from Utah cartoonist/Local Hero Pat Bagley's Twitter account.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:29
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These people are retarded jerk-offs but they are just trying to do with guns what other business/land owners do to poor people with economics: Seize wealth for personal gain without regard for other people. All the people buying into it are morons though, kind of like the people that buy into the idea that a politician cares about you or that your employer can be your friend. These guys are essentially our society taken to the extreme and its never surprising when things like this happen.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:31
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LaVoy Finnicum Memorial Butt Stuff
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Jan 31, 2016 20:35
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theflyingorc posted:The Clicen Bundy letter is really revealing in its use of the word "inspired", a word that has clear implications in fundamentalist circles. It's not uncommon among Mormons to believe the Founding Fathers were divinely inspired (thus, the Constitution, etc etc), although I've seen this kind of belief among plenty of religious people of other faiths. But, you know, if you believe all of that was divinely inspired, you should probably pay attention to that whole 'can amend the Constitution because we're not perfect' thing, which is something I've also seen brought up when Mormons are speaking of divine inspiration RE: the founding of the US and the writing of the Constitution/Declaration of Independence. As far as Cliven Bundy's article there goes, just imagine a long, drawn out, tired, exasperated sigh from me. This loving guy.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:40
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ChlamydiaJones posted:Recall also that there's a judge in Burns that has promised to charge each and every insurrectionist for the costs the town, county and state have endured. That was stated as $70,000.00 per day and I truly hope that each and every one of these assholes carries that financial obligation around with them until they've paid it off. Sure they probably don't pay taxes but a few hundred thousand per person accruing interest will make getting a new Walmark credit card more of a challenge and a court order can cost them a house or car without much difficulty. I hope something comes of this. Remembering at how much money pricks like Zimmerman and the Ferguson cop received in donations, it's heartening to think that any such cash on this occasion will go to undoing some of the damage that these idiots have done.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:53
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kartikeya posted:It's not uncommon among Mormons to believe the Founding Fathers were divinely inspired (thus, the Constitution, etc etc), although I've seen this kind of belief among plenty of religious people of other faiths. But, you know, if you believe all of that was divinely inspired, you should probably pay attention to that whole 'can amend the Constitution because we're not perfect' thing, which is something I've also seen brought up when Mormons are speaking of divine inspiration RE: the founding of the US and the writing of the Constitution/Declaration of Independence. It amuses me that these people so venerate a document that was argued over for months, was specifically written to allow amendments, and was intended to be revised every decade or so as the umpires word of God. That's not even getting into the many, many ways they misinterpreted it to justify their idiotic actions. I think they just keep on bringing it up in the hopes that someday it'll finally make anyone who questions them recoil in agony and flee like the vampires they're certain all liberals must be.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:54
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I finally decided to go see if I could find out if the Bundys are fringey members of the LDS Church, or part of one of the Mormon Fundamentalist breakoff groups. This article is pretty good if you want a decent overlook of things, and also seems to indicate that yeah, he's LDS (his reference to his bishop not having said anything against what he was doing, specifically) http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2016/01/04/3735830/bundy-mormonism/ It's worth a read for the curious. Edit: Geostomp posted:It amuses me that these people so venerate a document that was argued over for months, was specifically written to allow amendments, and was intended to be revised every decade or so as the umpires word of God. That's not even getting into the many, many ways they misinterpreted it to justify their idiotic actions. I think they just keep on bringing it up in the hopes that someday it'll finally make anyone who questions them recoil in agony and flee like the vampires they're certain all liberals must be. Well, yes and no. It's important to remember that Mormonism carries a gospel of continuing revelation, which basically just means 'God still speaks to people and helps those who ask to choose the right thing'. Believing someone was divinely inspired to write/create something doesn't necessarily carry the same weight of 'WORD OF GOD' as it might in other religions. It's difficult to explain when it's just something you've grown up understanding, but take, for instance, Mormon prophets. Mormons believe that God still chooses prophets to lead the faithful, and thus the title of 'Prophet' in the church means exactly that. However, Mormons do not believe that their prophets are infallible, or that everything they do or say is the direct Word of God You'd Better Listen. An LDS Prophet giving a sermon, for instance, is generally taken that way, but his personal politics or something he says to his grandkids on Christmas eve or something is not. Basically, Prophets are considered holy men, but still men, still imperfect, still entirely capable of bungling and making poor decisions. This goes right back to Joseph Smith; I've seen it repeatedly argued that 'hey, Joseph Smith did X thing, clearly this means he was a fraud and you're ignoring it', but Mormons don't believe Joseph Smith was perfect either. Far, far from it. In fact, there's a particular story about Joseph Smith that is very commonly cited as an instance in which he definitely did the wrong thing, and got into big trouble with God over it. Basically, when Joseph Smith was first translating the Book of Mormon (the story is he was directed to find the golden plates, aka where the Book of Mormon comes from, by an angel after his initial vision of God and Jesus), one of the people who was helping him translate really really wanted to show a bunch of his friends what they'd been working on. Up until that point the translated pages had just been between Joseph Smith and this guy, Martin Harris. So Joseph prays and asks God, hey, can Martin go show this stuff to his buddies? And the answer he gets is no. So they go back to translating but Martin Harris just really really wants to show these pages around, and so Joseph asks God again. This goes on for a bit, with God answering no, until finally God goes 'fine, if you really want'. So Martin Harris takes the translated pages and shows them to his buddies...and they end up going missing. Joseph's pretty distraught, he goes to talk to God again, and God is pissed, because, you know, Joseph Smith just wasn't taking his initial 'no's for an answer, which is what he should have done, because he kept coming back and asking as if he knew better than God. This resulted in all translation stopping for a while, even the plates being taken away. Mormons believe what was lost was the Book of Lehi, basically the first 'book' of the Book of Mormon, which now starts with the Book of Nephi instead (God was basically so pissed that when translation began again, that part of the plates was 'sealed' and wasn't allowed to be translated again). This is basically just the first link that pops up about this story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_116_pages That's a lot of Mormon specific words to just say 'if you're not humble enough and think you know best, you can eventually get whatever answer you want from God, or at least think you've got that answer, because duh, humanity', but there you go. A Mormon specific story about why you shouldn't do that, and how Joseph Smith was a guy like anyone who made big mistakes even according to the LDS church. Edit 2, sorry: And all of that and it occurs to me that really, I think the clarification isn't that the Constitution and every word therein is divinely inspired, as believed by Mormons, but that the concept of it, the concepts within it, and the idea of a living document, was. Which is basically your generic American exceptionalism with a religious flavor (as if American exceptionalism doesn't have that in general). kartikeya fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 20:56
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ShadowCatboy posted:
yeah. He sounds like a dumb idiot who bought it /pol/ and militia bullshit and is ready kill and maybe die for it. so basicaly kylo renn.
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Jan 31, 2016 20:57
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ChlamydiaJones posted:Recall also that there's a judge in Burns that has promised to charge each and every insurrectionist for the costs the town, county and state have endured. That was stated as $70,000.00 per day and I truly hope that each and every one of these assholes carries that financial obligation around with them until they've paid it off. Sure they probably don't pay taxes but a few hundred thousand per person accruing interest will make getting a new Walmark credit card more of a challenge and a court order can cost them a house or car without much difficulty. I'm gonna laugh so loving hard if it turns out the holdouts are still running up the bill for the Bundys and the rest of them by refusing to leave.
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Jan 31, 2016 21:36
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A while back in this thread Prestor Jane said that militia/sovcits strategizing is like watching someone play chess who is totally unaware of half the pieces on the board. It's fascinating to realize that when poo poo started going down on Tuesday, people on this board had figured out the FBI's whole strategy and why they'd done it in a matter of hours. Meanwhile there are are people online still going "But the FBI doesn't put up roadblocks and then they put up another roadblock around a curve where it was impossible to see" who have no idea that the only unfair thing about the whole situation is that the FBI wouldn't dumb itself down to their level. Which is about as unfair as not handicapping yourself when playing a board game against a child who is threatening to kill people if they win. Fionnoula posted:New York TImes reporter spoke to David Fry. They are indeed camping outside in order to PROVE that they aren't actually occupying the refuge (because apparently only the buildings matter?) and therefore hey aren't actually hostile. Just camping.
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Jan 31, 2016 21:38
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Dapper_Swindler posted:yeah. He sounds like a dumb idiot who bought it /pol/ and militia bullshit and is ready kill and maybe die for it. so basicaly kylo renn. The only person in Oregon who was willing to die for the militia's ideology did so.
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Jan 31, 2016 21:39
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Leofish posted:By the way, on the wounding thing - I've read enough news articles about deadly force to know that one of the first things many people ask is "why didn't they just shoot him in the leg?" to which the reply is usually along the lines of "in a tense situation, you can't guarantee that kind of accuracy" or "police are trained to shoot to kill once a situation escalates to the point where a discharge is considered justified." In other words, the entire idea that they had this plan to expertly hit Finicum in the side, in order to make him reflexively reach toward his side, which could then be interpreted as "he's got a gun", justifying the use of deadly force, is all just more imaginary movie gun bullshit - at least in my opinion. Like, what a ridiculous plan! What if he didn't exit the vehicle, or the shot intending to wound missed its mark and hit him in the arm or foot, or even killed him? What if it missed entirely? Why would they need to invent some kind of bizarre plot that required precise, expert aim and timing? Well, it's not just an accuracy thing, but you also have a main artery in that small space. a bullet tearing through there runs a high chance of nailing that and then be left to bleed out like he was anyways because the people in the truck didn't surrender immediately. Those movie scenes where someone takes multiple rounds and just limps around is kinda bullshit.
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