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fishmech posted:Ok, crazy guy, you keep believing Bernie Sanders is so different if you want, it's just not going to be true. You seem to be confused. I'm not arguing that Sanders is vastly different, I'm arguing that you're intentionally downplaying the differences that DO exist between the two candidates in an attempt to support your assertion that Sanders is a neoliberal, a claim which is stupid as gently caress.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:19
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stinkles1112 posted:You seem to be confused. I'm not arguing that Sanders is vastly different, I'm arguing that you're intentionally downplaying the differences that DO exist between the two candidates in an attempt to support your assertion that Sanders is a neoliberal, a claim which is stupid as gently caress. Don't engage with Fishmech, he's mentally ill.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:20
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this_is_hard posted:Don't engage with Fishmech, he's mentally ill. I'm very familiar with fishmech, I've been here a while. If my retributive trolling prevents even one shitpost in the future, it'll all have been worth it.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:23
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stinkles1112 posted:You seem to be confused. I'm not arguing that Sanders is vastly different, I'm arguing that you're intentionally downplaying the differences that DO exist between the two candidates in an attempt to support your assertion that Sanders is a neoliberal, a claim which is stupid as gently caress. The differences that do exist are extremely minor, which is why he qualifies as a neoliberal. this_is_hard posted:Don't engage with Fishmech, he's mentally ill. Keep telling yourself that, bernout.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:25
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fishmech posted:The differences that do exist are extremely minor, which is why he qualifies as a neoliberal State-sponsored college and healthcare: the neoliberal answers ok I'll stop now guys I got it out of my system
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Jan 31, 2016 23:28
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Trabisnikof posted:Because they are both examples of leftist/liberal polices where regulating human tools and human actions with those tools can have positive societal impact. Guns don't cause environmental disasters and environmental pollution isn't something protected by the Constitution. This is another cheap liberal excuse to overlook the drug war, our prisons, and our police departments- the real causes crime in this country. Trabisnikof posted:The fact that you keep bringing up Bloomberg as proof of anything is a clear attempt to move the goal posts. It doesn't matter how lovely Bloomberg is, that's not the topic. Liberal and leftist policies have had lovely supporters always and it is conservative who try to use these ad hominem attacks to stop progressive/liberal/leftist policy. You can easily hold positions on gun control for different reasons.It's not a unique argument. That's my entire point. The same could be said for Reagan and Nixon. And gun control legislation in this country deserves every bit of criticism it gets. The Brady Bill is a perfect example of when you get a bunch of bleeding heart liberal know nothings to come in and write laws that affect millions of people. We can't even get proper background checks because of that piece of poo poo. Look, if you want to go pack the court and make guns a partisan issue, be my guest. But don't tell everyone else though that leftists are on board with your dumb loving ideas. Dead Cosmonaut fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 23:30
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SedanChair posted:Correct, it's a liberal position, not a "leftist" one. So you contend that FDR and LBJ were liberal but not leftist? Protecting the common welfare at the expense of individual liberty is at the heart of the left-right conflict. See: welfare state, environmentalism. Dead Cosmonaut posted:
Maybe you two could hash this out?
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Jan 31, 2016 23:44
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So uh... is this thread gonna become readable again? Jesus christ I thought this is what YCS was for 
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Jan 31, 2016 23:48
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For the love of god, make it stop.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:48
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JeffersonClay posted:So you contend that FDR and LBJ were liberal but not leftist? Protecting the common welfare at the expense of individual liberty is at the heart of the left-right conflict. See: welfare state, environmentalism. Environmentalism isn't inherently leftist. In fact, it's often anti-worker and anti-people in general.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:51
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"Environmentalism isn't Leftist," says the True Leftist.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:53
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Trabisnikof posted:"Environmentalism isn't Leftist," says the True Leftist. Now you're just being obtuse.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:55
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JeffersonClay posted:So you contend that FDR and LBJ were liberal but not leftist? A person may hold both leftist/rightist and liberal views, even when the general philosophies would create contradictions because people are great at compartmentalizing.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:55
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Trabisnikof posted:"Environmentalism isn't Leftist," says the True Leftist. Actually a good part of the Green Movement started out as fascists. So actually that does mean it doesn't belong on the left. Likewise there is a strong Malthusian component to the Green Movement.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:55
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socialism is often anti-worker and anti-people in general.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:55
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Thump! posted:So uh... is this thread gonna become readable again? Jesus christ I thought this is what YCS was for I'm confident that when Bernie drops out and endorses Hillary things will calm down and rationality will be restored.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:57
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JeffersonClay posted:socialism is often anti-worker Bold claim, that.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:57
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computer parts posted:Environmentalism isn't inherently leftist. In fact, it's often anti-worker and anti-people in general. I just vomited a little bit.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:59
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computer parts posted:Bold claim, that. Venezuela. China. North Korea. Workers paradises, all. Oh but those aren't real socialism. Fine. The environmentalists who want to kill all humans to save the earth don't count either.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:02
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smg77 posted:I'm confident that when Bernie drops out and endorses Hillary things will calm down and rationality will be restored. Up until PUMA2: kill ur parents harder starts
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Feb 1, 2016 00:05
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JeffersonClay posted:Venezuela. China. North Korea. Workers paradises, all. Okay, still who I wasn't talking about though.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:06
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JeffersonClay posted:FDR signed the National Firearms Act in 1934 in response to the wave of prohibition era gang violence. LBJ signed the gun control act of 1968 in response to the wave of assassinations in the 60s. Gun control has always been a liberal issue because liberals in the US have always held a core belief in reducing negative externalities. They want to control guns and pollution for the same reason; spraying lead in the air hurts society as a whole, and that should trump concerns about individual freedom.  but for stop and frisk. Imagine how many guns would still be on New York's streets if it wasn't for Father Bloomberg's courageous disregard for individual rights?Obviously this would infringe on minorites' rights not to be harassed just because they *might* be carrying a gun, but more guns before stop and frisk hurts society worse than less guns after the policy is enacted so that should trump concerns about individual freedoms. Cops might use it as cover to harass people they don't like but, hey, no law is perfect. If you don't like it why don't you go to Somalia?!
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Feb 1, 2016 00:07
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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smg77 posted:I'm confident that when Bernie drops out and endorses Hillary things will calm down and rationality will be restored. Rationality of what exactly? This is politics. It's discussion. Constantly saying Hillary's going to win without even bothering with her lukewarm platform is odd. If you think this is crazy, check out what's going on with that Trump fella and the republican party! JeffersonClay posted:Venezuela. China. North Korea. Workers paradises, all. Ah yes. North Korea. The country with a literal manchild 'god' in charge is an example of socialism.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:10
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Racist policies like racial profiling also hurt society as a whole. Their benefits don't outweigh the costs.computer parts posted:Okay, still who I wasn't talking about though. Who were you talking about?
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Feb 1, 2016 00:12
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JeffersonClay posted:Racist policies like racial profiling also hurt society as a whole. Their benefits don't outweigh the costs. Oh I see, you're one of those Teahadist saboteurs who makes law enforcement harder and then blames the government for being inefficient. How many dead minority teens is not being inconvenienced for five minutes on the street worth to you? I have nothing to hide.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:15
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Rationality of what exactly? This is politics. It's discussion. Constantly saying Hillary's going to win without even bothering with her lukewarm platform is odd. If you think this is crazy, check out what's going on with that Trump fella and the republican party! 
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Feb 1, 2016 00:17
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JeffersonClay posted:Who were you talking about? Here is the article that coined the term "Tragedy of the Commons": http://www.garretthardinsociety.org/articles/art_tragedy_of_the_commons.html Note how what it is actually about is providing population quotas for countries and how the UN should be criticized for saying that everyone has the right to a family. This is distressing, especially in light of the closeness between Greens and conservatives noted above. Another example would be the Blueprint for Survival: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Blueprint_for_Survival quote:It recommended that people live in small, decentralised and largely de-industrialised communities. Some of the reasons given for this were that: I'm sure it's just a coincidence, but this mirrors conservative rhetoric about the value of small towns.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:25
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JeffersonClay posted:So you contend that FDR and LBJ were liberal but not leftist? Protecting the common welfare at the expense of individual liberty is at the heart of the left-right conflict. See: welfare state, environmentalism. See: segregation, the Vietnam War.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:25
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I created a TV/IV thread for the caucuses: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3762524
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Feb 1, 2016 00:26
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I was wondering what it was that I missed to rack up 250+ posts in a few hours, then I entered the thread and saw Fishmech was probated. Should have known better than to read any of that.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:43
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On Terra Firma posted:I was wondering what it was that I missed to rack up 250+ posts in a few hours, then I entered the thread and saw Fishmech was probated. Should have known better than to read any of that. Watching Fishcmech's logic circuits break over his extreme hatred of guns and everything to do with them can actually be pretty funny.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:45
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Thump! posted:So uh... is this thread gonna become readable again? Jesus christ I thought this is what YCS was for january 2017 prolly
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Feb 1, 2016 01:01
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computer parts posted:Here is the article that coined the term "Tragedy of the Commons": Do you think access to birth control and abortion is "anti-people" too? SedanChair posted:See: segregation, the Vietnam War. Neither was a segregationist and one of them escalated a bad war?
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Feb 1, 2016 01:14
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JeffersonClay posted:Do you think access to birth control and abortion is "anti-people" too? Nope, but there is a clear difference between "allowing access to birth control" and "mandating birth control". The latter is the policies of countries like China, which you've already acknowledged are Bad.
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Feb 1, 2016 01:17
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^ What would be bad about a 2 child policy here in America? Civilization is 70% Good 30% Bad and sometimes the state needs to be proactive. Patriotism with Chinese Characteristics.Subjunctive posted:Some very of-the-time fashion on display, but I don't think it really answered my question. What did Bernie do that demonstrates political skill as a mayor? What did he do to get the endorsement of the police department? How did he get the city council swung to his side (which happened after that video ended, because his legislative prospects were still "welp" in the last scene)? What would you say best exemplified something Bernie did that another random candidate wouldn't have been able to achieve? Here's Murray Bookchin's take speaking as a resident of Burlington in 1986 The Bernard Sanders Paradox - When Socialism Grows Old Thanks to BaurusJA
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Feb 1, 2016 01:18
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Hey I skipped 20 pages, is there still a Clinton/Sanders slap fight going on when you'd think that would be confined to another forum?
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Feb 1, 2016 01:20
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Doctor Butts posted:Hey I skipped 20 pages, is there still a Clinton/Sanders slap fight going on when you'd think that would be confined to another forum? WhiskeyJuvenile posted:january 2017 prolly
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Feb 1, 2016 01:22
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computer parts posted:Nope, but there is a clear difference between "allowing access to birth control" and "mandating birth control". And you think environmentalists often advocate policies like the one child policy?
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Feb 1, 2016 01:29
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WhiskeyJuvenile posted:january 2017 prolly We'll have a few weeks to enjoy it before President Trump shuts down the internet.
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Feb 1, 2016 01:29
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Thump! posted:So uh... is this thread gonna become readable again? Jesus christ I thought this is what YCS was for I support the #HillaryMen deathsquad violently cleansing this thread of all these... *shudder* Redditors
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Feb 1, 2016 01:32
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