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Zenostein posted:Isn't the story for the Hero 616 less "obvious copy" and more "literally Parker's tooling from after nationalization?" That is the story. Too bad it's patently false and not supported by any historical data either inside or outside of China http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/237803-are-hero-pens-faked/#entry2568741 Even if it was true the tooling would have worn out in only a few years and become totally useless for production needs.
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Jan 31, 2016 09:29
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grack posted:The industry is full of copies. Often of copies, of copies, of copies, of copies etc. why do you care so much about this, dude? nobody's even been condemning anything, just stating facts. clam down, take a deep breath, and relax. they're just pens.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:02
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Yeah, honestly I like the cheap Chinese knockoffs. They're fun to tinker with without worrying about breaking poo poo and I find comparing them to the "source" pen really interesting. Like the Hero 359 is a complete copy of the Lamy Safari to the point most of the parts are interchangeable between them. Even the converter is imitating the Lamy z26 instead of using a generic one. I'd like to get a Jinhao 599 to compare to the other two at some point. I know it has a fixed nib instead of the Lamy style swappable nibs, but not much more about it. Plus they're only like $5 and they come in translucent blue. Hell the most expensive pen I own is Chinese, although it seems to be an original design afaik. A Duke M12.
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Jan 31, 2016 16:58
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Soricidus posted:why do you care so much about this, dude? nobody's even been condemning anything, just stating facts. clam down, take a deep breath, and relax. they're just pens. I'm not upset, I'm curious. And calling something a "rip off" is, indeed, a condemnation.
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Jan 31, 2016 18:45
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What would you call a blatant copy of another company's product, usually made more cheaply?
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Jan 31, 2016 21:13
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the hero 359, which clones the safari so closely that it's surprising they bothered to change the brand name on the barrel, is an homage to lamy's iconic pen
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Jan 31, 2016 21:36
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pienipple posted:What would you call a blatant copy of another company's product, usually made more cheaply? Normal, because it happens in literally every other industry on earth? Do you get upset when you see store brand Aspirin or facial tissue not made by Kleenex as well? grack fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 21:48
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grack posted:Normal, because it happens in literally every other industry on earth? Do you get upset when you see store brand Aspirin or facial tissue not made by Kleenex as well? I didn't because I don't have any relevant knowledge on the subject. They may well have ripped off the Mont Blanc design but I'm not familiar with any of those pens. My pen collection is pretty cheap. Also Kleenex did not invent facial tissue, nor did Bayer invent aspirin. They improved upon and marketed well an existing product. And dude I like Chinese knockoff pens, I don't get why you're angry. When a company is obviously copying another company's design they are ripping them off because the designer(s) don't get compensated for their work being used and sometimes it can eat into the source company's sales. (I don't think this is a huge thing in pens except for maybe sales in China itself+ neighboring countries, western pen nerds buying knockoffs is a drop in the bucket.) They are capitalizing on the design and reputation of other people's work by copying it. Like knockoff phones designed to look like an iPhone or Galaxy, they may be well built and even function close to the phone they're aping but they are imitating the look of a successful product in hopes consumers will assume their product is the same.
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Jan 31, 2016 22:19
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I'm not at all angry. I'm honestly trying to figure out why people get up in arms about a $1 or $2 fountain pen. So what if it's a copy? Is Parker really losing sleep over a pen that they stopped making in 1972? Or Lamy over pens that are rarely if ever sold in the same markets? "Rip off" is a term that is never, ever used in a positive or even neutral situation. It's universally negative. Yet, it comes up time and time again in conversations like this, and almost without fail it's about Chinese manufacturers even though everyone else happily copies competitor's products in this industry and many, many others. So no, I don't understand the viewpoint, at all. They're fountain pens. You put ink in one end and it (hopefully) comes out the other end in a controlled fashion.
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Jan 31, 2016 22:37
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grack posted:I'm not at all angry. I'm honestly trying to figure out why people get up in arms about a $1 or $2 fountain pen. So what if it's a copy? Is Parker really losing sleep over a pen that they stopped making in 1972? Or Lamy over pens that are rarely if ever sold in the same markets? "Rip off" is a term that is never, ever used in a positive or even neutral situation. It's universally negative. Yet, it comes up time and time again in conversations like this, and almost without fail it's about Chinese manufacturers even though everyone else happily copies competitor's products in this industry and many, many others. You're being very aggressive about how we talk about our cheap pens. Sailor, Pilot, etc may have ripped off the MB 149, I'm not familiar with any of those pens so I don't know. If so that's kinda crappy.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:07
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Mont Blanc 149 -> Pilot 742 -> Sailor 1911 Large -> Platinum 3776
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Jan 31, 2016 23:17
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grack posted:Mont Blanc 149 -> Pilot 742 -> Sailor 1911 Large -> Platinum 3776 Yeah, I'd say those are ripping off the MB's style. They're very clearly based on it even if not to the 359 level of "we took a pen and literally made a mold from it."
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Jan 31, 2016 23:22
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FPs are nice. Inks are nice.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:25
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Alder posted:FPs are nice. Inks are nice. LIES Also suggestions for an orange ink? Something to go with my Dolcevita. I've tried Apache Sunset and didn't really like it.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:36
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Iroshizoku Yu-yake is a really nice orange. Fuyu-gaki is nice too bit more red-orange.
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Jan 31, 2016 23:44
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grack posted:LIES I like Diamine Autumn Oak. Warmer, some earth tone to it, tons of shading.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:03
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Dragon's Napalm, kinda?
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Feb 1, 2016 00:22
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NeurosisHead posted:I like Diamine Autumn Oak. Warmer, some earth tone to it, tons of shading. Ooh, I like that. Thanks.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:48
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Guys I think I have enough ink. Can that be right?
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Feb 1, 2016 02:38
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tater_salad posted:Guys I think I have enough ink. Can that be right? lol no
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Feb 1, 2016 03:08
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grack posted:I'm not at all angry. I'm honestly trying to figure out why people get up in arms about a $1 or $2 fountain pen. So what if it's a copy? Is Parker really losing sleep over a pen that they stopped making in 1972? Or Lamy over pens that are rarely if ever sold in the same markets? "Rip off" is a term that is never, ever used in a positive or even neutral situation. It's universally negative. Yet, it comes up time and time again in conversations like this, and almost without fail it's about Chinese manufacturers even though everyone else happily copies competitor's products in this industry and many, many others. This is a really ridiculous post and you are a bad person for having made it. Fountain pens are cool and good and who gives a poo poo where they come from as long as they're ending up in my house!
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Feb 1, 2016 04:58
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Sagebrush posted:This is a really ridiculous post and you are a bad person for having made it. Isn't that pretty much what they were saying, though? I'd buy a bunch of cheap/knockoff/ripoff/homage/whateverthefuck pens but I already have several that I feel bad about not using often and so...
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Feb 1, 2016 05:04
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Sagebrush posted:This is a really ridiculous post and you are a bad person for having made it. Uh thanks for agreeing with me I guess?
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Feb 1, 2016 05:34
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NeurosisHead posted:lol no Oh no tell me what to buy I like inks but that means I'd need more pens for those more inks right? Trying to turn this thread around.
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Feb 1, 2016 13:44
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tater_salad posted:Oh no tell me what to buy I like inks but that means I'd need more pens for those more inks right? I got a bunch of ink samples from Goulet, and the one I am most interested in trying is one of the gray inks.
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Feb 1, 2016 15:13
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KKKLIP ART posted:I got a bunch of ink samples from Goulet, and the one I am most interested in trying is one of the gray inks. I was underwhelmed with the greys I tried. I suspect it was because of a lot of things. I put them in my Jinhao whatever that's got a pretty broad nib but I think the greys would look better in a fat italic. I think they looked best on unlined, blank, bright white paper. Cream colored paper, lined white paper and paper with any other ink on it (like making notes on a printout) all kind of made it look like washed out crap. Maybe if your lined paper had faint grey lines it would look nice?
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Feb 1, 2016 15:40
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GoodBee posted:I was underwhelmed with the greys I tried. I suspect it was because of a lot of things. I could see that, I feel like with any paper that isn't super bright white, it would probably just look black
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Feb 1, 2016 15:48
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I'm having a hard time imagining a gray ink since to me, black on a fine nib already comes out kind of gray. I'm trying to get a disgustingly goth black ink to compensate . . . whenever the place I order from decides to actually send the stuff out the door.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:25
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm having a hard time imagining a gray ink since to me, black on a fine nib already comes out kind of gray. I'm trying to get a disgustingly goth black ink to compensate . . . whenever the place I order from decides to actually send the stuff out the door. True this, I have been writing with grey and while yes, it is grey, I get the impression my pen with black ink is running low.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:41
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I have a bottle of Fuyu-syogun and imo the nice thing about gray ink is the shading you don't see with black, but you really do kinda need a flex or italic nib to get the benefit there.
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Feb 1, 2016 16:53
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm having a hard time imagining a gray ink since to me, black on a fine nib already comes out kind of gray. I'm trying to get a disgustingly goth black ink to compensate . . . whenever the place I order from decides to actually send the stuff out the door. When it comes to "disgustingly goth black ink", I strongly recommend Aurora Black or Noodler's Borealis Black, which is his own version of Aurora Black. They're really, really dark. Is Baystate Blue safe in a Pilot Metro? I'm honestly very tempted to get a pen dedicated to using just that ink, since it is such a perfect color. "Nathan posted:It is hoped that when you place the pen to the page – this color jumps out before your eyes with that vibrancy of the rebellious inks mad King George so vehemently disliked! 
Solumin fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 18:24
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Solumin posted:Is Baystate Blue safe in a Pilot Metro? I'm honestly very tempted to get a pen dedicated to using just that ink, since it is such a perfect color. If you don't mind staining the poo poo out of whatever converter you use, sure. Just give it a good cleaning more regularly than you would if you had it loaded with something like Quink. Now on to my question: I finally picked up a Plumix with the intention of swapping the nib into one of my Metros but I decided to try it as it came first. I loaded up the included cartridge of Pilot black and away I went, but it feels decidedly scratchy. I'm not sure if that's just because it's an italic nib and I'm used to the EF on my Safari or the M on my other Metro or if Pilot's black ink is kinda dry or what. Should I do some fine tuning after I work through this cartridge or just try another ink after I swap the nib over?
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Feb 1, 2016 19:24
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Solumin posted:Is Baystate Blue safe in a Pilot Metro? I'm honestly very tempted to get a pen dedicated to using just that ink, since it is such a perfect color. I've got a 78g I use exclusively for it and just refill cartridges. It clogged the hell out of the Preppies I was originally using it in but it's been fine in the 78g as long as I periodically take the feed out and clean it well. A Metro would probably be about the same.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:41
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Solumin posted:When it comes to "disgustingly goth black ink", I strongly recommend Aurora Black or Noodler's Borealis Black, which is his own version of Aurora Black. They're really, really dark. Burma Road Brown Bad Black Moccasin Looking that up again, I don't think I wanted the Bad Black Moccasin...
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Feb 1, 2016 20:05
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Rocko Bonaparte posted:I'm getting two Noodler's inks whenever Pen Boutique gets off their butts: BBM is the one I have, don't have any issues with it. It's a black ink and it's one of the bulletproof ones, and it looks plenty dark to me. The ones I've tried were Noodler's Black, which dried a bit slower than BBM but was otherwise about the same; Dark Matter which had more of a gray cast and feathered really badly on the paper I was testing inks on; and Borealis Black which is definitely nice and dark but IIRC also smelled very stinky.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:13
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Man if you don't like stinky pens, you're doing it wrong
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Feb 1, 2016 22:32
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^^ If you like stinky pens, you need to get a Noodler's Charlie. Mine stinks a lot.KKKLIP ART posted:I got a bunch of ink samples from Goulet, and the one I am most interested in trying is one of the gray inks. I also got a sample pack from Goulet that contained a grey ink, namely Diamine's Graphite. I put it into a Jinhao I just bought because I suspected the pen's converter wasn't making a good seal and I expected to hate the graphite. However, the pen works great and I fell in love with the ink. Graphite's slightly off grey color is surprisingly pleasing. It has some green tints to it and some minor shading. On an unrelated note, does anyone know any good resources for improving handwriting/penmanship?
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Feb 1, 2016 22:37
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Everything Burrito posted:BBM is the one I have, don't have any issues with it. It's a black ink and it's one of the bulletproof ones, and it looks plenty dark to me. The ones I've tried were Noodler's Black, which dried a bit slower than BBM but was otherwise about the same; Dark Matter which had more of a gray cast and feathered really badly on the paper I was testing inks on; and Borealis Black which is definitely nice and dark but IIRC also smelled very stinky. Interesting, my Borealis Black doesn't stink at all. Maybe you had a different formulation or just a bad batch...? Borealis Black can feather a bit on cheap paper, but it also dries drat near instantly. Everything Burrito posted:I've got a 78g I use exclusively for it and just refill cartridges. It clogged the hell out of the Preppies I was originally using it in but it's been fine in the 78g as long as I periodically take the feed out and clean it well. A Metro would probably be about the same. My main concern is having to put extra effort into cleaning it. I've been avoiding bulletproof inks just because I tend to get ink everywhere when I'm refilling or doing something stupid when writing. Baystate Blue isn't bulletproof, but you still need bleach or rubbing alcohol to clean it... Magnus Praeda posted:If you don't mind staining the poo poo out of whatever converter you use, sure. Just give it a good cleaning more regularly than you would if you had it loaded with something like Quink. Right, the point would be to have a dedicated pen that could get gunked up/stained without really caring about it. A cheap pen like a Metro is perfect for that.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:38
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JEBOman posted:On an unrelated note, does anyone know any good resources for improving handwriting/penmanship? IAMPETH is generally the go-to, although they're mostly focused on copperplate/engravers script and that sort of thing. For what it's worth, the general spencerian/copperplate/&c. forms are fairly close to "regular" cursive, only without a flexible pen you won't get all the dramatic lines. But what you probably want is good ol' Business Penmanship or Palmer. And at any rate, the takeaway is still going to be "practice a lot," and probably "slow down and pay attention to what you're writing." Of course, that's assuming you already have a good idea of what the letterforms are meant to look like. FPN used to have some posts stickied with links to instruction books and the like, but they seem to have vanished. But if you have the time, wading through various "help I write like a four-year-old" posts will probably eventually turn up some links that'll help. Solumin posted:Interesting, my Borealis Black doesn't stink at all. Maybe you had a different formulation or just a bad batch...? A lot of Noodler's inks do have some sort of smell, but it's more the sort of thing you notice if you've got your face in the bottle or like two inches from still-wet ink. Either way, it's not really something you're terribly likely to notice unless you're looking for it or sticking your nose to the paper.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:11
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Solumin posted:My main concern is having to put extra effort into cleaning it. I've been avoiding bulletproof inks just because I tend to get ink everywhere when I'm refilling or doing something stupid when writing. Baystate Blue isn't bulletproof, but you still need bleach or rubbing alcohol to clean it... I do most of my pen cleaning and filling at work and have at best a little dish soap but mostly only have warm water for cleaning and the main things getting stained are my hands. I did sling a big splatter of BSB across the wall once at my old office  I wouldn't worry about it too much if you really want to use that color, just accept that something -- possibly many things -- will end up a lovely shade of blue. It definitely will stain whatever you put it in though, the 78G I'm using is permanently blue including the nib.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:32
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