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Yeah, don't forget, this is coming right after Shauna was publicly disowned by her posh dad due to her working-class mom.
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Jan 31, 2016 06:32
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:Well, the other uncomfortable reality is the whole social class thing. Shauna's bright but she's also reaching the point in her life where society's just going to start giving Mildred and Lottie stuff and while keeping it from Shauna. Seriously, which one's going to have an easier time at the Oxbridge interviews: Mildred or Shauna? As far as most Oxbridge interviewers are concerned they would be from the same social class (which is to say they don't attend a fee paying school). Mildred would be far more typical of a state school applicant, though. MrTundra fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Jan 31, 2016 |
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Jan 31, 2016 21:30
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Feb 1, 2016 06:11
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How's society going to give Lotte an easier time than Shanna?
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Feb 1, 2016 07:48
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Why, hello there, Monday comic. Only Mr Knott can save us now, in more ways than one. I do wish Ryan had a bigger backbone instead of forcing a frail gentleman to come back to get kids in line.
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Feb 1, 2016 09:57
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Saoshyant posted:Why, hello there, Monday comic. Only Mr Knott can save us now, in more ways than one. Honestly I thought better of him than this. Dithering in the staff room instead of at least trying to do something.
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Feb 1, 2016 13:50
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Captain Bravo posted:Yeah, don't forget, this is coming right after Shauna was publicly disowned by her posh dad due to her working-class mom. Not sure that's quite how I'd characterize that interaction...
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Feb 1, 2016 18:14
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Bell_ posted:How's society going to give Lotte an easier time than Shanna? Lotte's solidly middle class, for starters.
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Feb 1, 2016 19:20
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PleasingFungus posted:Not sure that's quite how I'd characterize that interaction... You could argue that the way Shauna's father behaved there was just down to him being a fundamentally rather timid and passive person, whose top priority is always the avoidance of any awkwardness or confrontation. I do think there's more to it than that, though. When he's describing to Shauna how her mother and him got together it's clear that he was very aware of the class differences between them and that this made him profoundly uncomfortable. The exact circumstances of how they drifted apart aren't made explicit but it seems reasonable to assume that the fear (not necessarily conscious) of 'marrying beneath him' was an important factor in the breakup. And when Shauna's innocent approach puts him on the spot and he's faced with the choice of either explaining to his wife about how he got a cleaning lady at his former workplace pregnant or brushing Shauna off, he unerringly goes for the latter option, even though he's well aware of how hurt she'll be. (The way Shauna bravely goes along with his bullshit must have been a particularly painful twist of the knife for him, not that he doesn't deserve it.)
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Feb 1, 2016 20:36
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You guys are reading way too much into the actions of an awkward, adult nerd. You can see in his face he knows he completely blew up things there, because he had no idea what to do and picked a bad option.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:52
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If I can't breathlessly over-analyze comic books here, where CAN I breathlessly over-analyze comic books 
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Feb 1, 2016 21:56
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Saoshyant posted:You guys are reading way too much into the actions of an awkward, adult nerd. You can see in his face he knows he completely blew up things there, because he had no idea what to do and picked a bad option. that isn't actually mutually exclusive at all with the other thing, though
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Feb 1, 2016 22:24
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Empress Theonora posted:Lotte's solidly middle class, for starters. Do you mean Mildred? Mildred clearly is with her dad in a highly educated profession, good house with 'modern' upbringing, etc.. I see Lottie and Shanua as working class, with Shauna being from a poorer former-council estate working class family, but this might be how the terms of what is middle class and working class have changed and are a lot more mutable than they were a few decades ago. To my mind working class = most people, middle class = small business owners and people in specialised well-to-do professions like doctors, lawyers, scientists, etc and upper class = large business owners, nobility, etc.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:35
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team overhead smash posted:Do you mean Mildred? Mildred clearly is with her dad in a highly educated profession, good house with 'modern' upbringing, etc.. Class is a lot more ingrained and well defined in British culture. Working class means that you work somewhere that requires your physical exertion, speaking broadly. Middle class encompasses all jobs that where you might have an office or a desk. I don't think we know what Lottie's mom does, but we've seen her house and her neighbourhood and it doesn't seem like she's working class.
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Feb 2, 2016 07:24
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Class is a lot more ingrained and well defined in British culture. Working class means that you work somewhere that requires your physical exertion, speaking broadly. Middle class encompasses all jobs that where you might have an office or a desk. This is a fairly new thing where working class has negative connotations and the meaning is starting to shift as anyone and every starts to say they're middle class. Back before Blair there'd be no argument that people working for normal average pay were working class regardless of whether it's blue or white collar work, with only managerial staff and the like falling into middle class.
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Feb 2, 2016 10:03
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http://www.scarygoround.com/index.php?date=20160202 Lots of outpoked eyes in this strip.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:15
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team overhead smash posted:This is a fairly new thing where working class has negative connotations and the meaning is starting to shift as anyone and every starts to say they're middle class. Back before Blair there'd be no argument that people working for normal average pay were working class regardless of whether it's blue or white collar work, with only managerial staff and the like falling into middle class. It's an American thing that bled over, I think. Sorry about that. Leads to stuff like this.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:32
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Class differences were always explained to me in terms of how pressing bills/food costs are to a person - if someone works to stay housed and fed, they're working class; if someone works more for amenities or to maintain or improve an already decent living they're middle class (and if someone doesn't need to work at all they're upper class).
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Feb 2, 2016 23:26
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Calling it now: Knotty is going to train Shauna and Blossom to be Batman.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:32
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Nah, they're gonna get expelled and get jobs at the pea factory.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:00
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Leroy Dennui posted:Nah, they're gonna get expelled and get jobs at the pea factory. Knotty isn't a teacher any more and has no authority to expel them. It's significant that they are going with him, while the other kids are going to the headmaster.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:02
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Shauna grew up in the council estate on a diet of chips and trashy TV; she has moved up in the world by the grace of her mother's new beau, who is a straight-talking white van man (who is no less working-class, but in the sense of the independent tradesman rather than zero-hour wage labourer per se; think of the social class that Marx derided as the culturally-conservative petite-bourgeoisie). Lottie's mum is an estate agent. She is middle-class, by virtue of her social circle rather than strictly income.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:00
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Pistol_Pete posted:You could argue that the way Shauna's father behaved there was just down to him being a fundamentally rather timid and passive person, whose top priority is always the avoidance of any awkwardness or confrontation. I do think there's more to it than that, though. When he's describing to Shauna how her mother and him got together it's clear that he was very aware of the class differences between them and that this made him profoundly uncomfortable. The exact circumstances of how they drifted apart aren't made explicit but it seems reasonable to assume that the fear (not necessarily conscious) of 'marrying beneath him' was an important factor in the breakup. And when Shauna's innocent approach puts him on the spot and he's faced with the choice of either explaining to his wife about how he got a cleaning lady at his former workplace pregnant or brushing Shauna off, he unerringly goes for the latter option, even though he's well aware of how hurt she'll be. (The way Shauna bravely goes along with his bullshit must have been a particularly painful twist of the knife for him, not that he doesn't deserve it.) My argument is: someone might be ashamed of and fearful of acknowledging a child from a previous relationship without class entering into it at all. Do you think Shauna's father wouldn't have dissembled in front of his wife & son if Shauna was his secret love-child with a countess, instead of a cleaner? I'm skeptical.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:29
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Banned from swimming - it's important to recall that Shauna joined the swim team in the first place because it kept her from walking home from school at dangerous times.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:44
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Bongo Bill posted:Banned from swimming - it's important to recall that Shauna joined the swim team in the first place because it kept her from walking home from school at dangerous times. Yeah, but she's old enough now that it's probably less a concern and she likely keep at it because she loved it. You can see the way she's talking with Mrs. Lord that losing it is hitting her hard.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:55
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I'm having trouble figuring out what Shauna was supposed to have done. She couldn't have gone to the teachers to have them break it up because they were all hiding in the staff room. So, now she is closer to Blossom than ever and barred from extracurricular activities. It isn't like she is gonna go back to solving mysteries now. That school failed her badly, and that includes Knotty.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:12
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Saoshyant posted:Yeah, but she's old enough now that it's probably less a concern and she likely keep at it because she loved it. You can see the way she's talking with Mrs. Lord that losing it is hitting her hard. I just mean it has been historically important to her for reasons other than liking it.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:36
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I am inclined to agree, but I get the sense that there's more nuance to it. I don't think Knotty believes any of what he's saying, but I am slightly confused by some of the other characterization we're seeing. I'm from St. Louis and still I can't conceive of such a poorly run school.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:52
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Yeah, I know Tackleford doesn't run on strictly real-world rules but this is still weird. Is Blossom even in any clubs or societies? I thought she only ever hung out with Tuan and what's-his-name, and losing her only friends (approximately) was a part of what was making her lash out and pick fights in the first place, so being banned from school activities isn't really a punishment for her.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:00
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That's why she's so upbeat about it. They both got a light punishment (and Blossom's was especially generous considering her past as a notorious bully). Knotty knows that they beat the poo poo out of those girls for the right reasons, but still, they have to be seen to be punished.
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Feb 4, 2016 09:55
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ronya posted:Shauna grew up in the council estate on a diet of chips and trashy TV; she has moved up in the world by the grace of her mother's new beau, who is a straight-talking white van man (who is no less working-class, but in the sense of the independent tradesman rather than zero-hour wage labourer per se; think of the social class that Marx derided as the culturally-conservative petite-bourgeoisie). Isn't Dan an actual plumber instead of a "man with white van"?
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Feb 4, 2016 18:54
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Scaramouche posted:Isn't Dan an actual plumber instead of a "man with white van"? You are so middle class. It's "White van man" or "Man with a van". No-one in the world has ever before said "Man with a white van". You're going on the list for when the revolution comes.
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Feb 4, 2016 22:13
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punchymcpunch posted:That's why she's so upbeat about it. They both got a light punishment (and Blossom's was especially generous considering her past as a notorious bully). Knotty knows that they beat the poo poo out of those girls for the right reasons, but still, they have to be seen to be punished. Blossom is a antisocial loner who isn't involved in any school activities. She's also a known troublemaker who picks fights, started this feud with Tanya in the first place, and (probably) accidentally caused Knotty to have his heart attack. Her punishment is to be banned from clubs she's not involved in, and to be threatened with expulsion if she's caught fighting again. Shauna is a model student who loves being part of the swim club. She joined in to help a friend who was outnumbered five-one-one in a fight the teachers knew was happening but didn't intervene in because *reasons*. Her punishment is to be banned from swim club forever and threatened with expulsion if she's caught fighting again. The teacher in charge of swim club, who's always been presented as a reasonable person, says 'This is a just punishment and you deserved it'. Apraxin fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 22:48
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This seems to be a theme for the whole chapter - people getting caught up in circumstances beyond their control, with their guardians or authorities only intervening to punish them after the damage is done. Allison always threw dark but this feels like his heaviest material by an order of magnitude.
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Feb 4, 2016 23:04
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I think Shauna will be alright in the end. Also worth noting Blossom must have got those glasses before the fight. Fangz fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 23:34
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Apraxin posted:In Blossom's case I agree, but for Shauna? I mean taking this at face value: If you take the next panel into account, that teacher is actually saying "I will not openly disagree with the deputy head, congratulations on owning those assholes though."
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Feb 5, 2016 00:04
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Scaramouche posted:Isn't Dan an actual plumber instead of a "man with white van"? yes, he's a plumber. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_man although he's not independent per se  might be on a contract basis
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Feb 5, 2016 05:05
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team overhead smash posted:You are so middle class. Could just be American. Fangz posted:I think Shauna will be alright in the end. I think the glasses are pretty symbolically. Especially since we've been talking about class. When we first meet Shauna in SGR she looks like this:  Hair up, shorts, white t-shirt. Compare/contrast Lottie: pigtails, skirt, school jumper over t-shirt. Three years later, in Bad Machinery, Shauna looks like this:  (Big, poofy) hair down, skirt over leggings, school blazer over shirt, plus tie. Compare with the other estate girls: they're basically just young Shauna plus five years. She's gone middle class- visually, at any rate. The hair is the big one here: that style, drawn back and coming off the top of the head, is... well, it reads as extremely lower class to me, and I think it's significant that we've only ever seen it in-comic on Shauna and other council estate girls. The glasses don't show up until the Case of the Simple Soul:  I don't know if I'd call them a class marker as such, but it's another (visual) barrier between her and her younger self. This chapter, this process has been going in reverse. First she loses her glasses to Blossom, then she loses her Blazer to Darren (she's been wearing an old recently, remember?). Then, here:  She puts her hair up, in that specific style. It's striking- she looks like a completely different person. She looks like she did when she was ~8, more or less. Visually, she's a council estate girl again. Now the hair's down again and the glasses are back. Losing the swim team might be a pretty big deal for her. Look at it from a uni applications perspective: the story of Shauna Wickle, in the eyes of society, has gone from "estate girl turned star athlete and academic whiz" to "estate girl who was kicked off the swim team for violent behaviour (and has terrible grades)". Anyway Re: today's bobbins.horse: my mother got rid of my room as soon as I left for university, and it was surprising how much that hurt. 
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Feb 5, 2016 16:18
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To be fair, the only subject we know Shauna is doing badly in is Religious Studies, and Uni will probably care more about her having a part time job.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:19
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Every time I think I understand British culture, there's a whole nother dimension left that I don't understand left to figure out.
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Feb 5, 2016 18:46
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