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What do you mean by stop believing in genders? Because genders aren't things. They're a set of performed behaviors that are lumped together into a category. edit: read some dang Judith Butler blue squares fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 20:43
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I think a better and more reasonable way to say that is if you're writing a multi-dimensional character not of your own gender, you better take extra good care and also enlist the support of readers/editors who can tell you when you sound like a moron.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:47
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paradoxGentleman posted:The idea that you are only supposed to write about your own gender is upsetting to me. It feels so limiting. There are probably milions of walks of life that an author will never experience in their lifetime nor be able to research, should all of those be ignored because the author cannot properly get in the mindset? The protagonist of every novel should be a struggling would-be author who doesn't know what to do with their life and then suddenly hits on a great book idea and surprise it's the book you're reading right now.
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Feb 1, 2016 20:47
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Earwicker posted:The protagonist of every novel should be a struggling would-be author who doesn't know what to do with their life and then suddenly hits on a great book idea and surprise it's the book you're reading right now. poo poo, now what's the point in finishing Knausgaard?
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Feb 1, 2016 20:48
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mdemone posted:I think a better and more reasonable way to say that is if you're writing a multi-dimensional character not of your own gender, you better take extra good care and also enlist the support of readers/editors who can tell you when you sound like a moron. Plus if we had people stopping writers whenever they sound like morons half the books out there would never be published and I've just talked myself into this idea.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:01
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Nakar posted:I think you should probably focus on making your characters believable and capable of being appreciated and enjoyed by your readers in some way I think you are saying the same thing really, since "enlist the support of readers/editors who can tell you when you sound like a moron" is how you do that. I mean you can't tell if your characters are capable of being enjoyed by readers without.. readers. And good editors specialize in knowing what readers other than themselves will appreciate.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:03
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True, I guess I'm just distinguishing "people who can point out when you sound like an idiot" from "people who can tell when you're actually doing it well," but I suppose editors are supposed to be both.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:10
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I'm never going to read a Jonathan Franzen book but I did read that really stupid essay he wrote complaining that Gaddis books were too hard to read, it's cool in a way because he outs himself as a total idiot when he says that he's never been able to finish JR, Moby Dick, Don Quixote, and probably some other books.
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Feb 1, 2016 23:16
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A human heart posted:I'm never going to read a Jonathan Franzen book but I did read that really stupid essay he wrote complaining that Gaddis books were too hard to read, it's cool in a way because he outs himself as a total idiot when he says that he's never been able to finish JR, Moby Dick, Don Quixote, and probably some other books. I think you missed the point of the essay; he wrote about why he wasn't able to finish the books and used that to examine the responsibility that an author has to the reader. Being able to intelligently explain why he couldn't finish the books exculpates him from idiocy, it seems to be a matter of time and dedication rather than intelligence.
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Feb 2, 2016 00:09
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Cloks posted:I think you missed the point of the essay; he wrote about why he wasn't able to finish the books and used that to examine the responsibility that an author has to the reader. I totally agree. In fact he talked about this at the signing I went to. He believes that the author and the reader both have certain expectations of one another, and both should live up to them. The author should be entertaining but not outright frustrating and the reader should be willing to work hard enough to understand. I disagree when this is applied universally, and that the contract between author and reader is fluid. Stephanie Meyer and William Gaddis both have their own version. If Meyer came out with a book that was as difficult to read as a Gaddis book, she would not be living up to the expectation of her readers. This is me just rambling, though, and I'm seeing problems in what I'm saying. An author, like any artist, should also be free to experiment. Sometimes even wildly so. I don't know blue squares fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 00:17
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All up for having a lively author & reader debate with Melville let alone Cervantes
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Feb 2, 2016 00:19
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Ras Het posted:All up for having a lively author & reader debate with Melville let alone Cervantes Reading a book is just like having a debate with the author
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Feb 2, 2016 00:25
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I read The Count of Monte Cristo Starts really good and exciting and cool then he breaks out of the prison and it turns into interminable boring trash That is my opinion on old books you're supposed to like
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Feb 2, 2016 00:28
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Berious posted:I read The Count of Monte Cristo its a metaphor for becoming an adult
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Feb 2, 2016 00:29
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blue squares posted:its a metaphor for becoming an adult Now you put it that way I get the book and really like it!
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Feb 2, 2016 00:31
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The Recognitions is really loving good and I'm using this after chapters: http://www.williamgaddis.org/recognitions/I1summar.shtml
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Feb 2, 2016 00:51
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I had to go to a college library to find a copy of The Recognitions since you people won't shut up about Gaddis and the thing is like 1000 pages and I can't check out from there.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:19
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Nakar posted:I had to go to a college library to find a copy of The Recognitions since you people won't shut up about Gaddis and the thing is like 1000 pages and I can't check out from there. what kind of poo poo town do you live in that doesn't even have a Gaddis-themed bookstore Here you go: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/0151759715/ref=tmm_hrd_new_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=new&qid=1454372470&sr=8-1
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Feb 2, 2016 01:20
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I am probably not going to read Gaddis for at least two years so pfffffttttttt
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Feb 2, 2016 01:21
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Mel Mudkiper posted:I am probably not going to read Gaddis for at least two years so pfffffttttttt the gently caress happend to your face brah
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Feb 2, 2016 01:22
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blue squares posted:the gently caress happend to your face brah Febreeze said jordan face memes were dumb and got jordan faced. I said that was dumb so I got jordan faced.
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Feb 2, 2016 01:24
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Berious posted:I read The Count of Monte Cristo I don't know I would quite say trash but yeah it bogs down super hard as soon as the count starts having 300 page intricate but not thrilling revenge plots
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Feb 2, 2016 02:30
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Nakar posted:I had to go to a college library to find a copy of The Recognitions since you people won't shut up about Gaddis and the thing is like 1000 pages and I can't check out from there. Just buy the drat thing. Dalkey Archive edition, so you get the great Gass intro. It's one of my favorite books and I've never even gotten halfway through it. For some reason, every time, I eventually feel like I'm not able to give it the close attention it deserves, and I lose momentum. Gravity's Rainbow did the same thing to me for years. Someday I'll actually take a vacation and it'll get my fullest, closest read.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:36
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Also has anyone here read William Gass' The Tunnel? It's another one I haven't been able to claw my way into, and yet I always find myself wanting to give it another shot.
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Feb 2, 2016 03:47
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mdemone posted:Also has anyone here read William Gass' The Tunnel? It's another one I haven't been able to claw my way into, and yet I always find myself wanting to give it another shot. It's freaking crazy. I have it on my shelf and plan to read it when I finish Recognitions
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Feb 2, 2016 03:54
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Nakar posted:I had to go to a college library to find a copy of The Recognitions since you people won't shut up about Gaddis and the thing is like 1000 pages and I can't check out from there. I got mine from a church booksale for $2
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Feb 2, 2016 04:31
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Maybe I should read Gaddis at last. Last book I read was Joshua Cohens Book of Numbers which almost made me hate postmodernism
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Feb 2, 2016 07:56
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mdemone posted:Also has anyone here read William Gass' The Tunnel? It's another one I haven't been able to claw my way into, and yet I always find myself wanting to give it another shot. Yeah, amazing book about the realities of living in Indiana.
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Feb 2, 2016 10:21
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There are parts in The Tunnel that are really great (off the top of my head the fuge and the driving lesson) but it didn't really grab me over all. I prefer the shorter Gasses like Omensetter's Luck and In the Heart of the Heart.
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Feb 2, 2016 11:43
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Mr. Squishy posted:There are parts in The Tunnel that are really great (off the top of my head the fuge and the driving lesson) but it didn't really grab me over all. I prefer the shorter Gasses like Omensetter's Luck and In the Heart of the Heart. Omensetter's Luck is my favorite of Gass' work. I can see why The Tunnel just doesn't quite click for some people, but I still liked it quite a bit. You are definitely right that some bits are just way, way better than others, though.
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Feb 2, 2016 18:38
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Ras Het posted:All up for having a lively author & reader debate with Melville let alone Cervantes I'm pretty sure Melville is the  -iest of 19th century American authors, and anyone who reads Melville without thinking he is glorious is clearly dumb and possibly illiterate.That's my position in this debate.  On another note: if anyone has never read anything by William Maxwell, they should remedy that. I read So Long, See You Tomorrow last weekend and now want to read everything he ever wrote. He writes about human weakness with such profound empathy and kindness -- as sad as the story is, it's somehow full of warmth and light. Kinda like Gandalf. Imagine a sad story about a rural murder told by Gandalf, and you'll get it.
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Feb 2, 2016 20:40
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It's really hard to find good literary fiction that works in audiobook form. My attention tends to slip for a few moments and then I get confused.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:05
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blue squares posted:It's really hard to find good literary fiction that works in audiobook form. My attention tends to slip for a few moments and then I get confused. Blood Meridian's audiobook is excellent. The long run-on sentences are much clearer when spoken, and it's all very biblical.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:24
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mdemone posted:Blood Meridian's audiobook is excellent. The long run-on sentences are much clearer when spoken, and it's all very biblical. Just listened to the sample. You're not kidding! the narrator is very good. If My Struggle Book 2 doesn't work w/audio then I'm going back to Ferrante or getting BM blue squares fucked around with this message at 03:32 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 03:27
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blue squares posted:Just listened to the sample. You're not kidding! the narrator is very good. If My Struggle Book 2 doesn't work w/audio then I'm going back to Ferrante or getting BM Yeah, it really lends itself well to the format, and the narrator is pitch-perfect. Along those lines, Lolita also has a good audiobook, with Jeremy Irons who is a perfect voice for poor, poor Humbert.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:38
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mdemone posted:Yeah, it really lends itself well to the format, and the narrator is pitch-perfect. played him in the movie too
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Feb 3, 2016 03:49
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AND he's a method actor...
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Feb 3, 2016 03:52
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William Burrough's is always gold. I won't read Junky without the audio.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:03
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Mel Mudkiper posted:played him in the movie too I squinted carefully at this post before I remembered that they did another Lolita in the 90s. For a moment I thought you meant Kubrick's film and I almost talked myself into remembering Irons in it imstead of Mason.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:59
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BTW best Jeremy irons movie is dead ringers and cronenberg is the best director
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Feb 3, 2016 05:01
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