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I'm in a situation right now where I want to be doing veteran bosses, but my healers are all either level 0 or level 4. So I am still stuck running relatively safe apprentice dungeons trying to get teams together that will colevelled with fresh off the boat healers. Then I make one attempt and some people die. Which is fine, but now I'm back to doing level 1 dungeons again to level new people.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:21
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victrix posted:All of these are bandaids on the problem of the repeated content that's level gated. I'm not sure there is a simple elegant solution anymore, since they baked this into the game's design. Beat first boss in a region, unlocking the second. Beat second boss in a region, giving you a key to the Darkest Dungeon. Once you have all keys, do the Darkest Dungeon or keep on going on random missions at your leisure. Having no Resolve XP would also make adventurers more disposable, which considering how the game styles itself would be a plus imo. Then again I guess people like leveling their guys, so  .
Wizard Styles fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 21:35
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I find it really funny that half the time people don't even realize the plague doctor is a woman but people still draw the worst poo poo of her apparently.
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Feb 2, 2016 21:36
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wait till you see my mpreg leper in other news - gently caress that goddamn map layout that has you entering in the middle of a massive snaking tunnel. there is precisely one good thing about this map. 
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Feb 2, 2016 21:42
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I tried the second darkest dungeon quest and have no desire to go back. Yuck.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:02
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dyzzy posted:I tried the second darkest dungeon quest and have no desire to go back. Yuck. your dudes feel the same way
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Feb 2, 2016 22:04
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I don't care for the thoughts of the dead
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Feb 2, 2016 22:05
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:wait till you see my mpreg leper I consider a two lunged dungeon with the farthest points being equally distant while going for a boss to be the best. Also i didn't scout the 12 pounder fight and that cannon is apparently super sneaky and snuck up on my guys and surprised them. I am going to imagine it hiding behind a tiny bush and my guys just blindly walking past it.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:19
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Internet Kraken posted:I find it really funny that half the time people don't even realize the plague doctor is a woman but people still draw the worst poo poo of her apparently. uh hey baby you got questionable professionalism and kinda look like a bird, and that is completely my poo poo
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Feb 2, 2016 22:20
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Sloober posted:I consider a two lunged dungeon with the farthest points being equally distant while going for a boss to be the best. Conveniently shaped lamps and pieces of furniture are the bane of all champions of light.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:21
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Sloober posted:Also i didn't scout the 12 pounder fight and that cannon is apparently super sneaky and snuck up on my guys and surprised them. I am going to imagine it hiding behind a tiny bush and my guys just blindly walking past it. Scouting the boss room is never necessary. It is 100% of the time located in whatever room is farthest from your starting point. There is absolutely zero doubt about a boss location unless two or more rooms are equidistant from your starting room, which is something I have never seen since I started paying attention. I suspect the code prevents it.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:24
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Chomp8645 posted:Scouting the boss room is never necessary. It is 100% of the time located in whatever room is farthest from your starting point. There is absolutely zero doubt about a boss location unless two or more rooms are equidistant from your starting room, which is something I have never seen since I started paying attention. I suspect the code prevents it. That 12 pounder fight was in a two lunged dungeon with the farthest point on each of them being 4 rooms away from the entrance, scouting would have helped in that situation. Yes you can go by assumption on the boss being farthest, but you can hit some setups where they are the same distance. My 2nd flesh boss, 2nd siren, the 12 lber and the 2nd prophet for me all were like that, farthest rooms being 4 away. Sloober fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Feb 2, 2016 22:27
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Wizard Styles posted:Having no Resolve XP would also make adventurers more disposable, which considering how the game styles itself would be a plus imo. Then again I guess people like leveling their guys, so Nakar posted:I mean, I get the idea: Your heroes are getting too strong for the content that you may be comfortable with and the gold curve doesn't let you go into the next tier 100% prepared. I just think there's too much content at each tier (8 bosses!) to progress through it "naturally," which encourages gamey things like "fire everybody over and over until you have the town fully upgraded and tons of gold for an A-Team and all Apprentice/Veteran bosses killed, then start filling out your roster with top-tier champions." Because that's the conservative, sensible approach, when what they seem to want is for you to progress toward the top tier and stay there. Something about it is just off, at least a little bit, and if you play the way they want you to play it's ridiculously punishing... but at the same time you expect that, because you're unprepared... but then the best and most sensible way to prepare feels like cheating the game systems. My current view is that the player has a large degree of control over how much strategic risk they're willing to bear, and on paper this is a problem in that someone can game the system to make things largely (still not 100%!) safe, outside of things like trying the DD entirely unspoilered. However, looked at another way, this is a natural mechanism for players to modulate their playstyle based on how they personally react to loss. In practice, I'm still having a lot of fun even though I'm in a fairly staid "grind through the remaining level 5 bosses" phase of the game, in part because I'm not worrying about being 100% optimal vis-a-vis negative quirks, locked-in positive quirks, etc. It might be weird to say that the player is responsible for playing the game in a way that they find fun, but there you have it. Fundamentally, some of the issue is that the game is designed around having a lot of different valid approaches to play and thus has a large degree of strategic headroom. I would argue that this applies not just to party composition but also to larger strategic considerations. The issues about optimal play being boring is basically impossible to fix without narrowing the range of valid options. Such narrowing would be more necessary if this was a competitive multiplayer game, or even a game with a lose state. Chomp8645 posted:Scouting the boss room is never necessary. It is 100% of the time located in whatever room is farthest from your starting point. There is absolutely zero doubt about a boss location unless two or more rooms are equidistant from your starting room, which is something I have never seen since I started paying attention. I suspect the code prevents it.
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Feb 2, 2016 22:44
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For shits and giggles I've got a "only one hero from each class" save file going, and so far it's pretty neat. I expect to go loving ballistic and delete it in frustration when my healers bite it and I have to grind them back up though. 
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Feb 2, 2016 22:49
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Wait... Leper, Man-at-arms, Highwayman, Vestal, Jester, Arbalest, Crusader, Grave Robber, Occultist, Abomination, Hellion. 11 characters-12 once the Merchant shows up(Whenever that is). In the very end, you'll 'have' to double up. Hope you enjoy it while it goes, though.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:14
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Oh sure, hence the "for shits and giggles" bit. It's not a serious project or anything but I'm curious how far I'd be able to progress with it.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:16
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Bloodly posted:Wait... Your point is still valid, but there are currently 14 classes. You missed Houndmaster, Plague Doctor, and Bounty Hunter.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:18
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I just got done checking the backer trinkets and a fair few of them are indeed broken to some degree or another, mostly due to 'clever' applications of rank or situation-based downsides that seldom or never apply. Mine, on the other hand... really isn't.  You're probably going to need that DB Resist and +Virtue chance in order to survive getting that pitiful amount of extra Resolve. Darkest Dungeon, folks!  As for my favorites so far, either thematically or statwise, here they are: Truth +7 ACC +10% stress damage vs Eldritch It helps you see better! ...Oh god, it helps you see better.  The Rolled Bones +3% crit at Death's Door +3% crit if HP below 25% +3% crit if torch below 26 -5 ACC How willing are you to dance on the edge of oblivion with a downgrade in ACC just for that sweet extra +9% Crit? Roll them bones, and see how long you last. The Phalanx +6% Prot in Pos 1 +10% Move resist in Pos 1 +10% Stun resist in Pos 1 -4 SPD -6 DODGE Staying power at the front, in exchange for surer punishment. The Cthonian Texts -10% stress dmg if torch below 26 +10% blight resist if torch below 26 +10% Heal Skills +10% stress dmg if torch above 75 -10% blight resist if torch above 75 You don't really want to be able to read these tattered manuscripts... The Bloodied Shroud +13% DMG if HP below 25% +8 DODGE if HP below 25% -13% Heals Received Interesting synergy; you get less healing, so it's easier to fall below the health threshold that activates the rather significant bonuses. Reaper's Hourglass +5 SPD if HP above 75 % +8 DODGE if HP above 75 % +5% Crit if HP above 75 % -4 SPD if HP below 26 % -6 DODGE if HP below 26 % -5 ACC if HP below 26 % This trinket seems to encourage overconfidence... Necronomicon +13% Heal Skills +13% Heal Skills +4 SPD -16% Resolve XP -16% Resolve XP -16% Resolve XP ... I can see some interesting applications for this one, such as by stalling a prime healer's ascent, and allowing them to accompany more groups of green adventurers on missions. Moirai bones +6% Crit on First Round +15% DMG after First Round -5 ACC on First Round -4% Crit after First Round Nice and well-balanced trinket; gives you a high crit chance at ACC cost for the first round (when critting someone to death would have high value) and high damage at crit cost for the subsequent rounds. Lewd Vial +6 ACC while Camping +5 SPD while Camping -13% stress resist while Camping -6% Prot while Camping -10% Disease Resist while Camping -10% Trap Disarm while Camping Well, it had to happen at least once.  Headhunter's Herbs +6 ACC vs Marked +13% DMG vs Marked +6% Crit vs Marked -10% Max HP -13% Heals Received -10% Stun Resist A really nice marking upgrade at a cheap, but potentially significant, price. Forlorn Memento +6% Prot if torch below 26 +10% DMG if torch below 26 -10% Stress Dmg if torch below 26 -10% Move Resist -6 % Death Blow Resist A touch of strength and comfort in the dark; at the cost of easing one's passing (around). Final Memento +9% Death Blow Resist -8% Virtue Chance The desperate cannot afford death. De Vermis Mysteriis -20% stress resist vs Eldritch -6 DODGE vs Eldritch Armed with knowledge, overconfidence abounds. Coward's Crutch +8 DODGE if in Pos 4 +5 SPD if in Pos 4 -6 DODGE if in Pos 1 A trinket with no real disadvantage, but the name sure fits. Concealed Dagger +3 SPD on First Round +3% Crit on First Round +5 % DMG -6% Prot A little somethin' extra up the sleeve.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:21
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Scribbleykins posted:Necronomicon this is an amazing trinket
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Feb 3, 2016 00:01
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Does Darkest Dungeon support negative stat values? Like, is it possible to have negative PROT and if so do you take extra damage and so on?
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Feb 3, 2016 00:08
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AnonSpore posted:Does Darkest Dungeon support negative stat values? Like, is it possible to have negative PROT and if so do you take extra damage and so on? I think I remember a tutorial tooltip somewhere saying that any values that go negative are treated as zero but I could be mistaken. Or maybe it was just someone posting it here.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:14
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I'm glad there are at least a few folks like Scribbleykins who are willing to make actually interesting trinkets instead of trying to find ways to game the system.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:30
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I think if a value is negative it is treated as zero. However, if you receive a buff, then it is lowered by that amount.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:34
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captain innocuous posted:I think if a value is negative it is treated as zero. However, if you receive a buff, then it is lowered by that amount. I'm not completely certain but I think you're right for most stats, notably dodge and prot. I have seen speed go into a negative value and there's probably others as well.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:07
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So Champion level dungeons are bullshit. Got crit'd 10 times in a row, missed 6 in a row, Wyrd apparently only heals 1-4, and my whole squad has 2+ diseases each after the first room.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:38
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BobMcFartsens posted:So Champion level dungeons are bullshit. Got crit'd 10 times in a row, missed 6 in a row, Wyrd apparently only heals 1-4, and my whole squad has 2+ diseases each after the first room. I really, really hate that about level 5/6 dungeons. Your weapon upgrades don't seem to lend any accuracy but enemy dodge keeps going through the roof. It feels like you either crit or whiff entirely. I gave this game another shot for a few days but the RPG elements feel really constrained and it boils down to luck. I can't do enough with my characters to make them really excel. And I don't really feel like playing for 125 weeks before I can even attempt the dungeons that'll get me rewards I can actually use.
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Feb 3, 2016 02:51
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The champ dungeons are very harsh, and I'd suggest only doing champ short missions (yes, those are a thing) when you can until you can give people level 5 equipment + skills, and really nice trinkets. Even after getting everyone suited up, you might have to take a perfectly built team and run away once in a while because luck just wasn't on your side.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:01
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Chomp8645 posted:Scouting the boss room is never necessary. It is 100% of the time located in whatever room is farthest from your starting point. There is absolutely zero doubt about a boss location unless two or more rooms are equidistant from your starting room, which is something I have never seen since I started paying attention. I suspect the code prevents it. I've seen it at least a couple of times
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Feb 3, 2016 03:03
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fennesz posted:... it boils down to luck. lol Wafflecopper posted:I've seen it at least a couple of times me too. also just saw it happen on a stream yesterday.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:11
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Wafflecopper posted:I've seen it at least a couple of times I find it's pretty rare that it's obvious. I just attempted the Hag and had 3 different equidistant possibilities 
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Feb 3, 2016 03:17
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I need to do something like write 'don't do Champion cove missions without an answer for uca savages' on my palm. I just did it with Vestal-Hway-Hway-MaA and it was a real slog. I brought like half as many bandages as I ended up needing, and there were just too many fights where I was just whittling down the last uca and praying that Arterial Pinch either got dodged or bleed-resisted. If I had piled +stun trinkets on my vestal or MaA it would have been a little less tense, at least. Oh well, at least things worked out okay.
FreeKillB fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 03:20
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fennesz posted:I really, really hate that about level 5/6 dungeons. Your weapon upgrades don't seem to lend any accuracy but enemy dodge keeps going through the roof. It feels like you either crit or whiff entirely. Skill upgrades give you accuracy, weapons give damage/speed, armor gives hp/dodge. Trinkets are useful from the get-go, even the lovely common ones are often really helpful. While any individual situation has plenty of luck to it, you have enough tools and options to mitigate a lot of it, and if the dice come down like the wrath of god on you there is still the retreat option. Very rarely should you be losing people or missions once you know the game and the enemies you're facing. For a parallel, I can see people who are bad at dungeon crawl stone soup claim that they need to get lucky, or they only died from bad rng. Then I see someone string together multiple 15-rune wins in a "go down the line with race/class combos" or some poo poo, because they understand how to mitigate lovely luck when they get it, and what they need to be able to take something on. I guess it just sounds like you're approaching this game from an rpg standpoint, which it actually has very little in common with. So I can see why it'd be frustrating. That is fine, consider toggling off some of the game difficulty options or mucking around with the .json files in the game if you want. Or liberally access backer heroes/trinkets, those in general seem pretty silly good. In the end I guess you thought you were getting into something different than what the game is about, sorry. @freekillb: consider tapping a plague doc as a permanent cove member, infinite cure bleeds is pretty amazing. Plague doc+occultist is a great backrow for any cove party (occultist bonus damage for eldritch combined with high crit rate is significantly more damage than vestal).
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Feb 3, 2016 03:37
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fennesz posted:I really, really hate that about level 5/6 dungeons. Your weapon upgrades don't seem to lend any accuracy but enemy dodge keeps going through the roof. It feels like you either crit or whiff entirely. You're bad at this game and should put it down.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:48
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 gently caress you Collector you ruined my "perfect" game!  NG+ wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. At least, I expected the Darkest Dungeon to be a lot more difficult but it wasn't that much harder than in NG. Level 5 dungeons were probably the hardest part. So much potential for poo poo to go wrong so fast there. Beating every boss in NG+ is probably the hardest thing to do but I'm terrible with time limits and only had 20 weeks left when I beat the last dungeon. VVV Honestly, before this run I thought the deed grind was annoying as well but when you have the right priorities it doesn't take very long.  I think it only took like 3 or 4 weald runs for me to get the blacksmith maxed out once I started working on it. I guess the reason it stands out to people is because you really don't need to grind for any of the other heirlooms. I got enough paintings playing normally to max out the guild long before the blacksmith was even close to done. What took a lot longer was getting enough gold to outfit my squads for the Darkest Dungeon. That poo poo is expensive. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 04:05
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Yeah it seems that beating all of the bosses takes quite a bit of grind. I'm at week 85 on a normal file and I still have four more bosses to unlock. At least Champion dungeons are anything but boring, and I'm making plenty of cash in order to have reserves for e: I'm curious how quickly you managed to get enough deeds for the blacksmith. Did you just live in the Weald for a while and then go straight to DD when you had level five upgrades? Or are dark runs just much better at heirloom grinding than I've been assuming? e2: cool, good to know. I switched to loot-based strategies largely after I stopped caring about heirlooms, so I guess it's mostly similar to gold-farming runs. FreeKillB fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 04:09
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Something (else) good I'll say for this game: when I lose against a boss, it really lights a fire in me to want to take them down. Had ten spare minutes at one point today so I pulled out some scratch paper and jotted down several notes to myself regarding party formation and abilities, camping, etc., for the next time I go up against the Brigand 12 Pounder. Been awhile since I played a game like this where I felt compelled to "Play" the game while I wasn't, planning ahead and such. Consequently, how does this sound to anybody: Arbalest, Vestal, Hound Master, Man-At-Arms. Arbalest
Sniper's Mark Bola Battlefield Bandage CAMPING: Restring Crossbow
Divine Grace Divine Comfort Illumination CAMPING: Bless
Whistle Lick Wounds Blackjack CAMPING: Hound's Watch
Bellow Command Bolster CAMPING: Tactics
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Feb 3, 2016 04:28
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You unlock stuff faster doing longer missions, so one reason it takes so long is the insistence on shorts vs long or even medium lengths. The caveat is you also get more resolve, but you could conceivably unlock stuff with a high level group doing champs or vet level groups etc. And using your lower rank guys to clear bosses.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:29
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FreeKillB posted:Yeah it seems that beating all of the bosses takes quite a bit of grind. I'm at week 85 on a normal file and I still have four more bosses to unlock. At least Champion dungeons are anything but boring, and I'm making plenty of cash in order to have reserves for
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Feb 3, 2016 04:38
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Bad Seafood posted:Consequently, how does this sound to anybody: I worry about your damage output with that comp, on the cannon itself especially. No Blindfire on your Arbalest means you're likely to have her go last and if you've been clearing out adds as you go, then the Pounder's in Row 1 and you can't Sniper Shot it. Yeah, you have Bola, but the damage on the cannon you'll get from that will be sad times. The Vestal should probably be running Judgment instead of Illumination. I'm also not a fan of the dog man on any of the Pounders, Hound's Rush has a slightly lower accuracy than I might want if I'm rolling the dice on Dodge rolls on matchmen. No bleeding the cannon, either. Man-at-Arms I do like on the cannon, but I would consider slotting Retribution since you're guaranteed to take Blanket Fire. I'll be honest, I think it can work, but I'm doubtful it will.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:39
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Bad Seafood posted:-snip- I was gonna give advice on this team but then I realized your asking about the canon fight and I still have no clue what a good strategy for that is. Everything I've tried has either failed or only succeeded after a miserable amount of time. Its the only boss I feel like I don't "get" still. All I'd say for sure is don't run illumination over judgement. Judgement is a better attacking option as it does more damage and heals the vestal.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:40
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