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Sometimes inaction is the best course of action. If you decline to make a choice, you still make a choice. Really makes you think.
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Jan 29, 2016 15:25
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| # ? May 28, 2024 00:52 |
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weirdly, the only person we can be certain survives the gently caress arcadia bay ending is madison, since he's in the bunker otherwise, we know victoria and nathan are both killed by jefferson, everyone that was in the two whales dinner might have exploded from whatever that was that Max had originally stopped before jumping back the last time, which x's out joyce, warren, drug dealer dude, his dog, and whomever else was there, although maybe that doesn't happen because of the last photo jump? it's unclear and of course there's just the general narrative implication that letting the town get hit just straight up kills everyone there
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Jan 29, 2016 15:32
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Paladinus posted:Sometimes inaction is the best course of action. If you decline to make a choice, you still make a choice. Really makes you think. is it more inactive to chose not to use your time travel powers again or to chose to use your time travel powers to go back and undo ever using your time travel powers
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Jan 29, 2016 15:34
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What if kate marsh, nathan and victoria were supposed to die and because they live in the sacrifice ending the city will eventually be destroyed anyway Max, you're going to have to take them all out this is my DLC pitch
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Jan 29, 2016 18:20
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AriadneThread posted:weirdly, the only person we can be certain survives the gently caress arcadia bay ending is madison, since he's in the bunker I would imagine anyone who actually stayed at the school is perfectly fine, since that's a ways away from the town and also up on a mountain. No idea where Kate's hospital is.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:31
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Why do all the Blackwell kids show up to a stranger's funeral in the bad ending?
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Jan 29, 2016 18:44
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mango sentinel posted:Why do all the Blackwell kids show up to a stranger's funeral in the bad ending? It's not all of them just Warren and Kate who are probably there for Max and Vic who I assume made some off screen amends with Max. GlyphGryph posted:I would imagine anyone who actually stayed at the school is perfectly fine, since that's a ways away from the town and also up on a mountain. No idea where Kate's hospital is. Kate's hospital isn't in Arcadia Bay so she's fine.
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Jan 29, 2016 18:55
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mango sentinel posted:Why do all the Blackwell kids show up to a stranger's funeral in the bad ending? Chloe got expelled from Blackwell didn't she? So they would know her.
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Jan 29, 2016 19:02
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You all talk as if Victoria dying is a given, but you can save her life either by making fun of her in episode 1 or not warning her in episode 4.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:22
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SirKibbles posted:It's not all of them just Warren and Kate who are probably there for Max and Vic who I assume made some off screen amends with Max. That skater guy she was flirting with was there too. Also some other dude who's probably also a skater.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:37
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Flattened Spoon posted:That skater guy she was flirting with was there too. Also some other dude who's probably also a skater. Yeah both the skater guys who know Chloe from before, Trevor and Justin, are there. Dana is also there. Everyone else has already been mentioned a few posts ago.
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Jan 29, 2016 20:43
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AriadneThread posted:and of course there's just the general narrative implication that letting the town get hit just straight up kills everyone there I don't know why everyone keeps assuming this. The "save Chloe" ending doesn't show anyone dead, just that the town got hosed up. To me, "Save Arcadia Bay" meant "save what Arcadia Bay represents", which is: corruption (Nathan, the Principal), preciousness (the school in general), and literal serial killing (Jefferson). I don't think it's a hard choice at all. gently caress that place.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:09
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DyVGnLkOQ most of these are wonderful, but they should have gone for more of a sleazy yakuza voice for Nathan instead of 'pompadoured delinquent' Francis fucked around with this message at 07:26 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 07:16
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Keeping up the bad lip-syncing tradition, I see.  Although some of them actually match up pretty well. Like they put a little more effort into this dub than the English recording, ironically.Also, I don't think I'm ever going to be able to hear "Obstacles" again without getting mixed up emotions about this damned game.
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Feb 1, 2016 08:01
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Plom Bar posted:You all talk as if Victoria dying is a given, but you can save her life either by making fun of her in episode 1 or not warning her in episode 4. I like being not a jerk to her is actually the wrong thing in this situation.
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Feb 1, 2016 09:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DyVGnLkOQ Nathan sounds like a 40-year-old Yakuza boss or some poo poo
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Feb 1, 2016 18:41
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I'm sure this has been said before, but after finishing the game recently, I'm kind of surprised they didn't have your Max suddenly get memories from yet another Max who time traveled prior to the game's events. Though I suppose that would hamper player agency somewhat.
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Feb 2, 2016 13:04
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Oh cool, finally played this game and I'm glad the thread is still around. exquisite tea, Flattened Spoon and Caros have it 100% right and it's kinda depressing to see so many goons hung up on the standard pitfalls. It is a good game. Chloe all the way
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Feb 2, 2016 13:32
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Nichael posted:I'm sure this has been said before, but after finishing the game recently, I'm kind of surprised they didn't have your Max suddenly get memories from yet another Max who time traveled prior to the game's events. Though I suppose that would hamper player agency somewhat. That seems like the kind of thing that would drive Max insane and land her in an institution. New worst ending!
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Feb 2, 2016 20:20
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Delsaber posted:That seems like the kind of thing that would drive Max insane and land her in an institution. New worst ending! Well judging by the old concept art she was going to end up in a hospital...
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Feb 2, 2016 20:22
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People's complaints about the ending may have some merit, but I chose to save the town and it feels disingenuous to criticize something that made me sob like a little girl.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:47
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Nameless Pete posted:People's complaints about the ending may have some merit, but I chose to save the town and it feels disingenuous to criticize something that made me sob like a little girl. I criticize because I love. Generally speaking, if I'm critiquing something to the point of positioning it within the larger body of queer literature and especially woman-centric queer literature, there's a good chance that it's because I love it enough to take it seriously as a work of art. Honestly, if I didn't like it as much as I do, I wouldn't pay it anywhere near that much thought.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:56
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Plom Bar posted:I criticize because I love. Generally speaking, if I'm critiquing something to the point of positioning it within the larger body of queer literature and especially woman-centric queer literature, there's a good chance that it's because I love it enough to take it seriously as a work of art. Honestly, if I didn't like it as much as I do, I wouldn't pay it anywhere near that much thought. This makes me even more sad we kissed Warren in our play-through. The darkest timeline.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:53
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Yeah, kissing Chloe and friendzoning Warren are the only things I didn't change when I replayed the game (and I even killed Pompidou).
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Feb 3, 2016 07:44
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You can like (or love) something and still criticize it's flaws.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:53
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Nameless Pete posted:(and I even killed Pompidou). Whoa whoa lets not get crazy now...
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Feb 3, 2016 08:19
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Nameless Pete posted:(and I even killed Pompidou). 
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Feb 3, 2016 09:58
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I do; it's in the middle of the street.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:28
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Plom Bar posted:I criticize because I love. Generally speaking, if I'm critiquing something to the point of positioning it within the larger body of queer literature and especially woman-centric queer literature, there's a good chance that it's because I love it enough to take it seriously as a work of art. Honestly, if I didn't like it as much as I do, I wouldn't pay it anywhere near that much thought. I think you make a very fair criticism, based on a genuine weakness in the game that killing Chloe is more developed an ending than saving her. It's not specifically the game's fault that so many queer relationships in fiction end tragically, but at the same time Life is Strange would probably be the first to say that's no excuse. If Max can't hide behind being a wallflower and not having responsibility for events just because she didn't create them directly, then neither can the game. I really wish there was more to Chloe's ending - not more information, just more duration. More time to let it sink in, more time for audience catharsis. And just one callback to the motifs of the game, like the butterfly on the coffin or something. I dunno. MonsieurChoc posted:You can like (or love) something and still criticize it's flaws. I'm surprised you say the game doesn't matter in the end, like Arcadia Bay is a (fake) real place and the game is about what (fake) happens in Arcadia Bay over the course of a week. Like, really?
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Feb 3, 2016 10:30
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Episode 5 owns.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:39
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Nameless Pete posted:I do; it's in the middle of the street. 
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Feb 3, 2016 10:43
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Nameless Pete posted:People's complaints about the ending may have some merit, but I chose to save the town and it feels disingenuous to criticize something that made me sob like a little girl. Francis posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0DyVGnLkOQ
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Feb 3, 2016 11:18
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Evfedu posted:Translating the page got me "Gently shining in time rewind painful youth of light". Hey, it's a better title than "Life is Strange".
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Feb 3, 2016 13:31
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Also, haha, look what my very first post about this game was precision posted:I generally went for the nice options (made friends with the cheerleader) but yeah gently caress Victoria to hell and back.
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Feb 3, 2016 13:32
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Guess who the Japanese fans are most excited about!Plom Bar posted:I criticize because I love. Same. I love this game dearly, which is why I love talking about it, positively or negatively. Lt. Danger posted:I'm surprised you say the game doesn't matter in the end, like Arcadia Bay is a (fake) real place and the game is about what (fake) happens in Arcadia Bay over the course of a week. Like, really? People generally like stories that don't feel like a series of unnecessary events, yes. Also, there are deer jumping around the wreckage in the Chloe ending. It's something about that ending that I really like.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:07
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The basic conceit of the game is that Max makes events unnecessary through rewinding time. Half the game consists of unnecessary events, in fact, and you can see a list of them at the end of each chapter. Yet this doesn't stop them from having meaning, and many specifically gain meaning from being made unnecessary (from not being chosen). This is why Max says "gee wowsers, should I have done that? maybe I should do the other thing" after every major decision point. It's also specifically the idea behind the alternate reality in Episodes 3/4 and Max's nightmare alter-ego in Episode 5 - events don't stop mattering because they're "non-canon" now, just as fiction doesn't stop mattering because it's "not-real". For example, does Chloe's request to die in Episode 4 not have any meaning to the audience because it's definitively undone moments afterwards? I think if all you got from Life is Strange was "a series of (un)necessary events", then it seems like you misunderstood the game on a fundamental level. Lt. Danger fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 17:47
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Nameless Pete posted:I do; it's in the middle of the street. savage
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Feb 3, 2016 18:16
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Of course you should criticize things you love. Really, that's the only time you should. I don't look critically at, say, pro wrestling or slot car racing, because I don't really care about those things at all. It's only when you're actually interested and invested in something that you even feel the urge to think on it deeply enough that valid criticism becomes possible. And no matter how good the rest of a work is, if it has bad spots in it, pointing those out is totally reasonable. If episodes 1 through 4 were exactly the same but episode 5 was just 2 hours of Max staring unblinking into the camera and making mouth fart noises, would that still be immune to criticism because the rest of the game was good?
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Feb 3, 2016 18:54
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Lt. Danger posted:For example, does Chloe's request to die not have any meaning to the audience because it's definitively undone moments afterwards? I'm being glib when I call it a "series of unnecessary events". The ending isn't bad because the game is undone, it's bad because it's undone and turns out more or less the same without Max and has little follow-up. It's flat. The Chloe euthanasia choice was meaningful to me because I was so eager to escape via the photo, using time magic to escape making hard decisions. It made think about Max's powers and choice and etc. etc. Undoing everything Max does to the characters and not giving us a way to see how the events that have actually unfolded affect them was unsatisfying to me. I sacrificed Chloe to save the Bay and the characters just kind of show up for a few seconds and then it ends.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:01
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The story is about Max, not Arcadia Bay. It's a repudiation of self-conscious image-obsessed passive adolescence in favour of active engagement with the rest of the world. Consider Max at the start of Episode 1. Max:
Max performs two real actions in the opening, both of which are taking a photo - so even when she's engaging with the world, she's doing so as an observer, through a lens. One of the photos is a picture of herself. Compare to the part in Episode 5 where she replays this scene, intending to solve all major problems before they can even begin. Discounting the text to David which requires meta-timeline knowledge, Max is able to properly comfort Kate, shut down Victoria and hand in a photo for the contest. These are all actions which she could have done back in Episode 1, but didn't - out of a fear of rejection or failure. She is now able to engage with the world around her. This is Max's basic character arc, which persists regardless of time shenanigans. When Chloe and the other students call Max "Super-Max" or a "hero" or whatever, the game is being ironic. Max's rewind isn't a superpower, it's a crutch. Although she uses it to save lives, she also uses it far more often to simply interact with the world around her - that is, for the player to try out different choices and consequences, and to solve time-sensitive puzzles. It's her training wheels for being an adult. Many times Max uses her rewind to avoid unwanted consequences: Juliet and Taylor both criticise Max for asking for favours when she hasn't shown a drat interest in them before, so Max rewinds time and uses her meta-knowledge to manipulate them, thus avoiding the consequence of being antisocial. Max's second, parallel arc is her increasing use of rewind, to the point where it becomes self-destructive. While Max is now able to make choices like pulling the fire alarm or covering Victoria in paint, she is still using her rewind to avoid unfavourable consequences to her actions. Stuff like Juliet and Taylor, as above, or Frank's beans are examples of this; Episode 3/4's alternate reality is more extreme. Max literally plays with the lives of her best friend and her father, deleting and resurrecting realities to evade her and Chloe's grief. Max may be interacting with the world, but not in a healthy way; she's stopped avoiding making choices, but she's still avoiding the consequences. What began with nosebleeds in Episode 2 ends with all reality fragmenting itself around Max, as she hops from timeline to timeline, trying to get the perfect outcome. She fixes Blackwell's problems in five minutes in the classroom, only to end up in San Francisco when the storm strikes; she stops herself from going to San Francisco, only to end up back in the Dark Room with no photo journal and Chloe dead; she gets a photo back from Warren to save Chloe, only for the storm to still be there in the present! Girl cannot catch a break! And then she loses touch with reality itself when she falls into a catatonic nightmare. The more she struggles, the deeper she entangles herself. The more she avoids the consequences of her actions, the worse those consequences become. (It's a neat parallel to Chloe and David's relationship: the more Chloe rebels, the more David clamps down; the more David clamps down, the more Chloe rebels.) Resolution only arrives when Max stops avoiding consequences, as Warren and Chloe both tell her (and yeah, Warren's infodump is clumsy and rushed). Max needs to stop using her rewind powers in trying to get a 'Golden Ending', and either accept that a storm will destroy Arcadia Bay, or accept that Chloe will die in a shooting. She needs to make a choice and accept the consequences. The specifics of whether Timeline Chloe or Timeline Chloe-Minus happen aren't relevant - Arcadia Bay is just a canvas for Max to project and resolve her issues upon. What actually matters in the story is that Max stops being afraid of choices and consequences and starts living her life as an adult. This arc, again, persists regardless of time shenanigans. This all occurs in tandem with Chloe's half of the story, which is essentially the same but without time powers: avoidance (in this case, avoidance by aggression rather than by passivity) transforming into engagement (in this case, forming positive relationships with Max, David, potentially even Frank). This arc doesn't survive time shenanigans, which is part of the tragedy of the Bay ending, but Chloe reminds us that the events of the game still had great meaning for her and they'll still live on with her in whatever reality comes next. Of course, Chloe is not real, doesn't have an immortal soul, and unlike dogs, video game characters don't go to heaven. The obvious answer is that Chloe's arc and Max's arc will live on in us, the audience; we'll remember not to hide from the world, as Max and Chloe once did, but to live with it, as Max and Chloe eventually chose to do. It is a good game, with a good ending. Lt. Danger fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 20:15
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