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…but… If they were melted, how are they still in the “game ecosystem”? I mean, what form are they in and why is it impossible for CIG to remove them? What is the chain of transactions and ownership and how is it nor reversible? I can't even get my head around what the actual problem is, much less why CIG has to go after this guy. 
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Feb 3, 2016 11:44
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Tippis posted:…but… Yeah, it's really really weird. The guy who did the charge back presumably gets his account closed as a result along with what ever assets are on it. Surely that removes what ever is appropriate from the ecosystem. How do CIG plan on dealing with this sort of thing once there's a persistent game economy?
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Feb 3, 2016 11:47
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  Person A buys something, uses a method CIG approved, knew about and encouraged for marketing reasons to bypass a restriction on LTI that CIG put in, also for marketing reasons, to gift the item to Person B, Person B melts the item, buys a LTI version and gifts it back to person A. Years pass. Person A tries to get a refund as there's no sodding game as promised, gets told he can't as only has gifted ships. Person A does a chargeback, account gets closed, Person B gets hit with the bill for the chargeback despite not having the item (might have received a few credits tip from person A at most due to the lower cost some LTI items due to CIG marketing reasons).  says it's person B's fault, obviously.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:47
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Tippis posted:I can't even get my head around what the actual problem is, much less why CIG has to go after this guy. They don't have to, they chose to because they are iditos. Basically big mistake, now that it is out there, all kinds of disgruntled people know a chargeback will still work. Brace for impact!
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Feb 3, 2016 11:47
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I got a refund a while ago put the PU looks pretty cool right now and I'm thinkin about buying back in. Something small and inexpensive, probably around $1000. It's ok guys $1000 isn't that much to me and it won't come out of my savings. $1000 is barely anything these days, dinner and a movie will set you back more.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:48
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in short, good news everyone who wants a refund. do a chargeback!
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Feb 3, 2016 11:49
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Iglocska posted:OK, you guys should calm the gently caress down and think about this. If CIG were to just let those charges go, who would cover the material cost of the ship? Are you insane? Person B gifted 95-100% of the credit value back to person A as part of the LTI launder that hundreds of people were doing for a full year, those are the credits you track.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:49
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grimcreaper posted:You lost me at freespace 1 and 2. Those games were incredible when it came to the flight model and felt "right". I still play fs2 every few years. Absolutely. Freespace 2 is by far my favorite space combat game ever. It just felt right. Good music, good story, good just...everything. And FRED was super easy to learn how to use.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:51
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when I die I want to be melted and removed from the game ecosystem. TIA
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Feb 3, 2016 11:52
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If you LTI laundered anything during 2013, you might want to seriously consider doing a chargeback and getting your account closed now before CIG comes asking you for money.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:55
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Iglocska posted:OK, you guys should calm the gently caress down and think about this. If CIG were to just let those charges go, who would cover the material cost of the ship? This is a good point, those pixels and/or polygons are expensive.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:55
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AP posted:If you LTI laundered anything during 2013, you might want to seriously consider doing a chargeback and getting your account closed now before CIG comes asking you for money. I don't understand what CIG could possibly think they're going to achieve by pulling this sort of poo poo. Say this guy refuses to "buy" something just to have it confiscated by CIG so CIG closes his account. He does a chargeback. What now? They go after anyone that he gifted anything to to recoup the losses? Then they refuse and CIG closes their accounts, they do chargeback... what sort of retarded plan is this? In the real world companies have to suck up charge backs and actually keep their customers happy in order to avoid it. You can't just prey on your remaining customers to recoup the losses!
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Feb 3, 2016 11:57
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AP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHbogwIsFQ Wait, they're AWARE that he was defrauded, and they're STILL trying to get the cash out of him? What a bunch of complete and utter wankers.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:58
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Chalks posted:I don't understand what CIG could possibly think they're going to achieve by pulling this sort of poo poo. Say this guy refuses to "buy" something just to have it confiscated by CIG so CIG closes his account. He does a chargeback. What now? They go after anyone that he gifted anything to to recoup the losses? Then they refuse and CIG closes their accounts, they do chargeback... what sort of retarded plan is this? weirdly banking on intimidation into gettin em to drop more bucks on jpegs of ships but with the added bonus that they have no obligation to provide said jpegs yes this makes no sense. maybe the mask is slippin and they no longer care if folks think they are assholes
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Feb 3, 2016 11:58
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AP posted:Are you insane? Person B gifted 95-100% of the credit value back to person A as part of the LTI launder that hundreds of people were doing for a full year, those are the credits you track. Woosh. Fil5000 posted:This is a good point, those pixels and/or polygons are expensive. Those things sure don't come cheap! Also don't forget that if this happens more frequently it would lead to a world wide shortage of those ships
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Feb 3, 2016 12:00
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Barnsy posted:Wait, they're AWARE that he was defrauded, and they're STILL trying to get the cash out of him? What a bunch of complete and utter wankers. What are they going to do if he doesn't front the cash? Ban him and still get nothing? It doesn't really seem like they have much of a leg to stand on here but I'm not an expert in confused fuckery on this level.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:01
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Lack of Gravitas posted:
I need to clarify something here. \o is a person heiling the fuhrer, o/ is said person seen from behind.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:01
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Iglocska posted:Woosh. You've going to have to be more obvious, this is Star Citizen.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:02
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StarbloodKiss posted:Absolutely. Freespace 2 is by far my favorite space combat game ever. It just felt right. Good music, good story, good just...everything. And FRED was super easy to learn how to use. I once tried to make an epic capital ship battle map. I spent time on it and then failed to realize the big beam weapons are scripted attacks... i was sad.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:04
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Ramadu posted:Lights in helmets own because then I can see the face of who's talking. It's pretty cool imo  Lights aren't necessary, but can be useful. Its more of a case-by-case basis.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:06
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Barnsy posted:Wait, they're AWARE that he was defrauded, and they're STILL trying to get the cash out of him? What a bunch of complete and utter wankers. He wasn't defrauded, CIG were (or would have been if they had delivered the game). A customer bought an ingame item and then charged it back, that is all there is to it. It doesn't matter if the item was gifted to someone else or simply blown up without insurance, if CIG thinks the chargeback is fraudulent then they should fight that not try to extortion the money from a 3rd party.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:06
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TheLastRoboKy posted:I love how obsessive these twats get about not giving advertising revenue or 'clicks' to things they don't like. It's a thing they started doing from the GamerGate poo poo a year or two ago. "can't give this person a page view, because that would mean i support them! better to just see what they say without exposing myself to their content  "
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Feb 3, 2016 12:08
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AP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHbogwIsFQ This is pure gold and I see no way it can end in a PR nightmare. Not at all.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:10
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Chiwie posted:This is pure gold and I see no way it can end in a PR nightmare. Not at all. What I want to know is, has the rug just been wholly ripped out from under the the SC grey market?
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Feb 3, 2016 12:13
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MeLKoR posted:He wasn't defrauded, CIG were (or would have been if they had delivered the game). A customer bought an ingame item and then charged it back, that is all there is to it. It doesn't matter if the item was gifted to someone else or simply blown up without insurance, if CIG thinks the chargeback is fraudulent then they should fight that not try to extortion the money from a 3rd party. So what they're really doing is defrauding a customer because they have themselves been defrauded by a (very vaguely) related party. Some kind of reverse guilt-by-association payback? And they're presenting this as a solution to “his” “problem”?! Isn't that racketeering or something?   :psyicantevenfindaducksuitableforthis:
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Feb 3, 2016 12:14
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AP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHbogwIsFQ
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Feb 3, 2016 12:15
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AP posted:You've going to have to be more obvious, this is Star Citizen. My apologies, ever since the fourth stimpire it's hard to differentiate between trolling and being just utterly bat-poo poo crazy 
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Feb 3, 2016 12:15
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AP posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypHbogwIsFQ lol CIG CS is so borked! CS: ok we got two options to deal with this issue but option 1 is not possible so you are left with option 2
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Feb 3, 2016 12:15
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What a superb turn in this adventure! Can't wait to see how this one plays out
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Feb 3, 2016 12:15
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Man, if only CIG & Citizens were given some sort of explanation about how and why this system is dumb and bad for people. If only there was a group of people who talked about this at length on the CIG forums, and in turn were simply called trolls and the like by CIG's incompetent moderation team and Citizens. If only... https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/68600/article-by-themittani-com-exploring-star-citizen-s-grey-market https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/32104/lti-for-all
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Feb 3, 2016 12:16
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Iglocska posted:My apologies, ever since the fourth stimpire it's hard to differentiate between trolling and being just utterly bat-poo poo crazy You're forgiven, I think you've done that to me twice so far.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:18
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every week its like how can this debacle get any more complicated or hilariously hosed? oh its cool CIG just found a way
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Feb 3, 2016 12:19
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My Star Citizen story: I was a refugee from MWO when some people in the Word of Lowtax were talking about how optimistic they were about this thing called Star Citizen. So I started posting in one of the earlier threads, possibly the original Star Citizen Games thread (this was post-KS and I don't know when these threads changed over) to take a look and see if this was for me, since I'd just gotten burned by a crowdfunding/preorder purchase that went sour and still bothers me to this day. People were talking about their ships that they owned almost like they could fly them and that had me curious. I though, "Oh, they've got a playable demo already and you can get ships in it and associate them with your account? Do you get to keep them when things changeover to beta, and then release?" It was a few pages in before I realized that no, they were talking about ship "pledges" (back when there was still a veneer of charity to the act of donating to the project) and nothing was playable or even set in stone, design-wise. Everyone was actually just imagining based on concept art and initial ideas spitballed by the devs at the time. It was also around that time, maybe a month or so later, that I started to get concerned since "fully modeled physics thrusters" sounded like an extremely roundabout and misguided way to model movement in a space game. I even had, I think, a fruitful discussion with Octopode about it. I was having doubts as to whether or not that was a good idea, while Octopode was more optimistic as it represented a commitment to the idea of fidelity and realism that up to this point had been unmatched. (Elite would come along and prove that you didn't need to do any of that to feel realistic, all you had to do was know how to play on the player's perception of their ships' mass as well as completely slam dunk the sound design, since audio cues are one of the most effective tricks in the toolbox to draw audiences into audiovisual media.) This discussion was the one that convinced me that, "Oh, the Star Citizen project is going to be a complete mess isn't it?" though I mostly kept civil while some other, also-incredulous posters decided this was hilarious enough to start mining laughs. Agrajag got his avatar around then, good times. I still regret not trolling hard enough that I could've gotten a probie from the SC thread, but I didn't want to risk losing this av that some nice goon from PTN's BT thread bought me. Something nice for the rap sheet, you know? After I got bored sticking around, apparently a hammer got dropped and the SC mockers got kicked out and sent to GBS with the Doobie's Doghouse posters, and eventually the x-bone happened so I switched over from the SC/Doobie ghetto to what would become the x-bone sharktank. Also lmao that there's a word filter for the xbox one's most common nickname. peter gabriel debuted there, got his dancing cat avatar and then moved on to greater things  The xbone was worth at least a year of laughs. And a year of awkward "okay now I just feel kinda sorry for MS and 343" (who are actually decent dudes, friends of friends, I felt guilty making fun of their work too much, even when it was MCC). Then I came back to see the GBS SC/Doobs mockthread gone (I think, I wasn't keeping track) and the actual SC thread seemed to have a tide change. The incredibly belligerent pro-SC poster warcrimes seemed not to be posting anymore, which surprised me (because that guy basically sucked all the fun out of the thread whenever he showed up, like an incredibly irate wet blanket), and even formerly optimistic posters were being more skeptical. It got to the point where people were asking Eonwe, who I was then unfamiliar with (I don't know if he was there during the heady days but if he was I'm sorry I didn't notice him) but whose posting was by then notorious, to become OP of the next thread. So he made the thread, while Beer stepped back and lent him his moral support, and that's when I felt like things went right again. Some time later, possibly months, Derek loving Smart of all people threw his hat into the ring. Apparently he was made mod of a forum called the Smart Room while I wasn't paying attention so I guess he had made peace with his old Petty Internet Rivalry Nemesis, SomethingAwful. Blogs happened, poo poo went absolutely insane, and he even made the latest incarnation of the SC thread. At some point, years ago, I had taken for granted that the Star Citizen project was eminently mockable and I'm pleased to see that people now agree.  Daztek posted:If you pretend something didn't happen it obviously didn't happen This seems to be a running trend.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:20
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Iglocska posted:OK, you guys should calm the gently caress down and think about this. If CIG were to just let those charges go, who would cover the material cost of the ship?
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Feb 3, 2016 12:21
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We're an organisation that's been funded to the tune of more than $100m+ watch us chase someone over a few hundred bucks because we need to recoup the cost of some pixels. Mental.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:23
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poor White Lionel Richie, helping people get LTI  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=scrrgP3p96o
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Feb 3, 2016 12:24
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:Wisdom. Where does the "materials" of the ship go when melted? I'm guessing they get added to the in-game ship manufacturer's stockpiles, and then get subtracted when the "manufacturer" gets an "order" for a new "ship"? Don't you remember those vids about random poo poo spawning non stop in some weird corners of the PU? Now we know. It's a dump for melted ships!
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Feb 3, 2016 12:25
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AP posted:Are you insane? Person B gifted 95-100% of the credit value back to person A as part of the LTI launder that hundreds of people were doing for a full year, those are the credits you track. 
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Feb 3, 2016 12:25
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I'm seriously in shock that a method CIG knew about, were OK with people using, and even for a time approved of it, and then didn't take action against when they felt it was something to distance away from over two years ago is being cited as why that guy owes them $500 because someone else got a refund/charge back. That is insane.
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Feb 3, 2016 12:25
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Iglocska posted:Don't you remember those vids about random poo poo spawning non stop in some weird corners of the PU? Now we know. It's a dump for melted ships! I guess those ships suddenly losing textures and falling apart in 's videos are actually take by space repo men then?
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Feb 3, 2016 12:27
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