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The Ferengi were originally a stand-in for 20th century Western civilization, an image of greedy, selfish barbarism set as a foil to Federation enlightenment. They were militaristic, violent, and warlike. They also looked utterly ridiculous and tested so poorly with audiences that they got retooled into the Ferengi we all know. Their name comes from the Arabic for "Europeans" (farangi = Franks). The original violent imperialist Ferengi were much more true to the reality of capitalism. The Next Generation was as socialist as mainstream American TV has ever gotten, but it was couched in terms of replicators and The Future so most people didn't notice.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:56
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If you're reading TV shows or sci-fi paperbacks as parables for a good sociery then you really aren't ready to have a debate about society. The day I choose my entertainment because it reenforces my political creed is the day one of you should kill me out of mercy. I knew guy who loved the West Wing because of that and some of the conversations we had made me want to smother him with a pillow
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Feb 3, 2016 00:26
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I think it's fine to read stuff because you agree with it ideologically, just don't cite works of fiction as proof of how things are in the real world.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:46
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Woolie Wool posted:The Ferengi were originally a stand-in for 20th century Western civilization, an image of greedy, selfish barbarism set as a foil to Federation enlightenment. They were militaristic, violent, and warlike. They also looked utterly ridiculous and tested so poorly with audiences that they got retooled into the Ferengi we all know. Their name comes from the Arabic for "Europeans" (farangi = Franks). The Ferengi were supposed to be the new villains of the series since in TNG the Federation and Klingons weren't enemies anymore. They weren't exactly on the best terms but weren't fighting. The biggest snag was that there wasn't really all that much that was threatening about the Ferengi. People accepted socialism in Star Trek because it was never called socialism. Plus most people don't even really know the point Marx made. In Star Trek it was "well we have machines that can just make whatever we need on the cheap so scarcity no longer exists. Nobody is forced to work because it just isn't necessary anymore." It's exactly what Marx predicted but nobody said "Marx" or "socialism" so nobody thought about it. They just thought "huh, well yeah OK that makes sense" and that was that. It was also a footnote in the setting, really; mostly it was "these dudes fly off into space and have space adventures YEAH!"
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Feb 3, 2016 01:51
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Speaking of people not knowing what Marxism even is, the other day in regard to some development project in my neighbourhood not having enough community feedback a guy started raving about how this was evidence of our city goverment being anti-democratic and a slide towards chilling Marxism. I sarcastically agreed that re-zoning hearings were very integral to Marx's writing and his hatred of democratic community control over resources were well known. The dude flipped out and started going on about how he was extremely well read and if I don't see the Marxist parallels with the city skirting the public development review process then clearly I've never read anything to do with marx or socialism.
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Feb 3, 2016 01:58
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Did uh, did you get any rough guidelines as to where marx writes about the need to seize the means of planning permission? Is it somewhere in volume 2 of capital or something which explains why nobody's heard about it before? OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 02:01
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Nolanar posted:Firefly was alright but I can't watch it ever since I took a couple semesters of Mandarin and learned proper pronunciation. Jesus wept. Hobbesians are the Dominion.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:20
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Who What Now posted:They did that already. The were called the Ferengi. Crowsbeak posted:Hobbesians are the Dominion. I should probably go rewatch DS9, is what you guys are saying.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:22
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Nolanar posted:That said, someone on these forums (probably either in this thread or in CineD) floated the idea of scifi species being based on ideological/philosophical caricatures instead of racial ones, and I would watch the hell out of that.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:45
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Nolanar posted:I should probably go rewatch DS9, is what you guys are saying. It's rocky at the start and some of the main characters barely make their way to "endurable" by the time their development arc concludes, but it's still the best series made so far. Writing's better than the garbage that made up most of TNG, not that that's saying much.
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Feb 3, 2016 03:50
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Nolanar posted:I should probably go rewatch DS9, is what you guys are saying. Also goddammit Jrod won't answer my question. 
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Feb 3, 2016 04:00
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Captain_Maclaine posted:It's rocky at the start and some of the main characters barely make their way to "endurable" by the time their development arc concludes, but it's still the best series made so far. Writing's better than the garbage that made up most of TNG, not that that's saying much. I will cut you.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:02
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Who What Now posted:I will cut you. Patrick Stewart was the only one of the whole cast with the acting chops to salvage even some of the dreck they wrote for that show come at me.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:04
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I see the thread title is accurate again.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:10
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fade5 posted:You should indeed, DS9 is good. Should I get out the magic card again?
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Feb 3, 2016 04:11
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Patrick Stewart was the only one of the whole cast with the acting chops to salvage even some of the dreck they wrote for that show come at me. Why? Because he felt like the cast and crew were working Very Hard to make people believe they were actually on the Enterprise in outer space and he wouldn't have that work demeaned. So basically he's the only crew member that took it seriously. And even then season 1-3 falls flat with his constant reminder of humanity's "Evolved Sensibilities lol suck it space savages"
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Feb 3, 2016 04:15
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fade5 posted:You should indeed, DS9 is good. Jrod ducking a tricky question? Gosh.
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Feb 3, 2016 04:49
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Who What Now posted:I will cut you. TNG was boring, self-congratulatory bullshit and should never have been created. It's an affront not only to Start Trek but to sci fi and indeed television as a whole.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:25
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Muscle Tracer posted:TNG was boring, self-congratulatory bullshit and should never have been created. It's an affront not only to Start Trek but to sci fi and indeed television as a whole. This is a bad opinion. Jrod probably agrees with you it's that bad.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:06
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Twerkteam Pizza posted:Pretty sure Firefly is an over-hyped piece of sci-fi garbage that television networks usually cranks out after Star Trek DS9 ended. The Next Generation had an episode where the crew had to deal with a bunch of lazy drunk Irish and their whore women. In another episode, the doctor was seduced by an actual ghost. Star Trek is a dumb (and quite enjoyable) sci-fi series like any other and people who talk about how "philosophical" it is are big dumb neckbeards wearing comically large amnesia-inducing rose-tinted glasses Twerkteam Pizza posted:I guess the reason I don't really like it is BECAUSE it's character driven. My favorite shows are those one's where they deal with a philosophical theme on some episodes and with bullshit on others. Like, how there isn't any real over-arching plot to the original star trek is prolly part of the reason it's my favorite. Everyone has their own tastes, I just get so tired of "FIREFLY IS THE BEST" when I didn't really enjoy it :/ lol "everyone has their own tastes but I just get so tired of people expressing theirs, now listen while I explain mine" QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 10:21 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 10:14
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It's come to this? Collectivists, riven over whether or not TNG is good. When the answer is, yes it's good.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:20
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TNG is alright but DS9 is better. As is TOS but for different reasons.
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Feb 3, 2016 10:26
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The star wars with Scott Bakula was my favorite.
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Feb 3, 2016 11:00
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President Kucinich posted:This is a bad opinion. Jrod probably agrees with you it's that bad. ... Shots loving fired!  Speaking only for myself, I prefer Babylon 5 to DS9. v  v
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Feb 3, 2016 14:15
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Everyone knows Farscape is the sophisticated choice here. 
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Feb 3, 2016 14:21
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ToxicSlurpee posted:The Ferengi were supposed to be the new villains of the series since in TNG the Federation and Klingons weren't enemies anymore. They weren't exactly on the best terms but weren't fighting. The biggest snag was that there wasn't really all that much that was threatening about the Ferengi. Rom is a marxist
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Feb 3, 2016 14:57
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Rhjamiz posted:Everyone knows Farscape is the sophisticated choice here. This is the only correct answer. Everyone please correct your thinking to account for this truth.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:32
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DrProsek posted:This is the only correct answer. Everyone please correct your thinking to account for this truth. Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:39
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I tried watching Farscape, and even my wife who has fond memories of it didn't enjoy it as much on a rewatch. I hear it gets better later? Likewise people tell me that Babylon 5 is great, and then immediately say "except for this arc, and this arc, and this entire season..."
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Feb 3, 2016 16:40
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I just don't understand why Libertarians aren't taken more seriously guys... http://2016.libertarian-party.org/ Oh yeah, that's why.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:20
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Who What Now posted:Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end. I actually quite enjoyed Andromeda when it became a guessing game on which Greek myth they were cribbing off each week.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:23
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Who What Now posted:Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end. I think that this is something all reasonable people can agree on, yes.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:31
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Halloween Jack posted:I tried watching Farscape, and even my wife who has fond memories of it didn't enjoy it as much on a rewatch. I hear it gets better later? It takes about half the first season for the show to find its rhythm, and figure out exactly how to fit all its characters together (D'Argo in particular takes a while to cease being just a poor man's klingon-standin and become his own thing), but once it does it's hands-down my favorite TV sci-fi by a significant margin. Who What Now posted:Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end. Finally, something we can all agree on.
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Feb 3, 2016 18:32
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Halloween Jack posted:I tried watching Farscape, and even my wife who has fond memories of it didn't enjoy it as much on a rewatch. I hear it gets better later? I watched it for the first time a year ago and really liked it. It does take a bit to find its groove though. Who What Now posted:Listen, let's just set aside what was best and all agree that Andromeda sucked rear end. This was not the correct truth I laid out for you all. Why do you resist reason? Come, prax it out with me. (full disclosure, I've never seen Andromeda, from what I can tell via google it looks like "Let's make a show out of GRod's rejected ideas" which seems p bad)
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Feb 3, 2016 19:02
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DrProsek posted:(full disclosure, I've never seen Andromeda, from what I can tell via google it looks like "Let's make a show out of GRod's rejected ideas" which seems p bad) It had the odd decent idea in there, and some of the things they tried to do were interesting enough. Alas, it drowned in all the other poo poo they didn't have the sense to prune away. e: OwlFancier posted:It's got Kevin Sorbo in it. This, admittedly, didn't help.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:05
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It's got Kevin Sorbo in it.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:06
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Farscape to me is like Voyager as it should have been. Also I thought Andromeda had some promise at first at least until Sorbo decided to fire the show runner. Crowsbeak fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 19:06
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TLM3101 posted:... Shots loving fired! I used to like Babylon 5 but holy poo poo is it corny. Andreas Katsulas was decent, the other actors were loving TERRIBLE, the dialogue was "I hate sand" level and the social commentary is clumsier than a drunken rhino. Star Trek is actually better. FFS Katsulas isn't even the lead, instead you had Michael O'Hare (awful) and Bruce Boxleitner (worse). Woolie Wool fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 19:17
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TLM3101 posted:e: Kevin Sorbo was in Poolboy 2: Drowning Out the Fury and that movie is a gift to mankind.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:19
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Crowsbeak posted:Farscape to me is like Voyager as it should have been. I've always wondered how much those massive strokes he had contributed to what I will charitably describe as questionable career decisions.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:24
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