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Cingulate posted:1. Scott is absolutely, beyond doubt, not neoreactionary. He's probably left of the American center on nearly every issue. Given the right wing efforts to drag our Overton Window off a cliff, I'd assume that pretty much any random person with half a brain is left of the American center on most issues. EDIT: Christ, what a terrible way to start a page.
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Feb 3, 2016 22:56
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You can be left of the American centre and NRx in my opinion. It's a loving narrow ledge to stand on but I consider it possible. Only because of American politics, of course.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:02
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taters posted:The country he actually lives in, Poland, also seems fine with his presence. What makes you think he lives in Poland? Dude's American. Also since this thread loves ESR's madness:  ed, he continues: 
pr0zac has a new favorite as of 23:28 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 23:26
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pr0zac posted:What makes you think he lives in Poland? Dude's American. Literacy rate Haiti 60% Literacy rate Victorian England ~50%
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Feb 3, 2016 23:35
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esr posted:An IQ you or I would consider "average" is three standard deviations beyond the mean there. If you want to treat IQ like it's a meaningful thing, that's pretty dumb, but at least respect its internal logic. (I don't believe in IQ at all.)
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Feb 3, 2016 23:40
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Jack of Hearts posted:I like the bit where he doesn't understand the STD of the metric he's using, so he puts 68 at 3 STDs below the mean instead of 2. (A standard deviation in IQ is 15, not 10.) Slightly off-topic, but if you don't believe in it at all, how do you explain the correlation to, e.g., reaction time?
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Feb 3, 2016 23:44
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Maybe the decades of crushing poverty underneath the fist of a Baron Samedi cosplayer has something to do with this low average IQ.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:02
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Silver2195 posted:Slightly off-topic, but if you don't believe in it at all, how do you explain the correlation to, e.g., reaction time? I don't mean "I don't believe in it" in that sense. IQ isn't abjectly worthless; it would have been abandoned by now if there weren't some correlations with interesting factors. But as a math nerd, and as someone who views intelligence as multi-dimensional, well: assuming you've identified all the applicable dimensions, you're then applying a norm to a vector. But there are many norms you can apply, and the results will differ, so there is an arbitrariness built in to the system. There are plenty of empirical reasons to distrust IQ as being something quote-unquote meaningful. But perhaps I'm biased, as I also don't believe in the left-right political dichotomy at all, beyond "where did you sit in the French National Assembly." Whenever you take something multidimensional and turn it into something linear, you necessarily lose a ton of information.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:15
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Jack of Hearts posted:I don't mean "I don't believe in it" in that sense. IQ isn't abjectly worthless; it would have been abandoned by now if there weren't some correlations with interesting factors. But as a math nerd, and as someone who views intelligence as multi-dimensional, well: assuming you've identified all the applicable dimensions, you're then applying a norm to a vector. But there are many norms you can apply, and the results will differ, so there is an arbitrariness built in to the system. Ah, that makes sense.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:16
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Silver2195 posted:Slightly off-topic, but if you don't believe in it at all, how do you explain the correlation to, e.g., reaction time? Jack of Hearts posted:I like the bit where he doesn't understand the STD of the metric he's using, so he puts 68 at 3 STDs below the mean instead of 2. (A standard deviation in IQ is 15, not 10.) Or, to be charitable, you were too quick for your own good here.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:17
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Cingulate posted:You're bad at stats. I don't know what you mean.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:19
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taters posted:The RooshV thing seems like pretty good trolling to me, aberrant nature of his writings aside. If you actually read the guys announcement, he has no intention of personally attending any of these meetings he is trying to arrange. Not distracted by this fact, multiple petitions have been forwarded to prevent him from entering countries he has no intention of traveling too. The country he actually lives in, Poland, also seems fine with his presence. https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/694769625129717760 I looked up his "rape should be legal" article and I've been been puzzling over it. its clearly meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek but I can't figure out if that in itself is enough to constitute satire. It would function perfectly as a satire of MRA arguments on rape (if its womens responsibility to not get themselves raped why dont we just go the whole hog and determine she was asking for it the second she walked in the door?) but that would depend on roosh believing the exact opposite things actually he really believes. I mean its just dumb trollbait either way I'm just mulling it over trying to think what you'd call it proper, a closer description would probably be "ha-ha-sort-of-joking-but-not-really-misogynist-signaling". massive spider has a new favorite as of 00:25 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:22
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Jack of Hearts posted:I don't know what you mean. Next assignment: why should you not have thought so? (I'm not defending the original statement, which was probably also made by a statistically illiterate person.)
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Feb 4, 2016 00:22
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massive spider posted:I looked up his "rape should be legal" article and I've been been puzzling over it. and its clearly meant to be somewhat tongue in cheek but I can't figure out if that in itself is enough to constitute satire. Roosh deserves either ridicule, pity, or a therapist. He doesn't deserve people actually trying to understand his ideas for any other reason than helping him be less sad. Also, I thought Return of Kings used to be some neomasculinity/pickup artist thing, but nowadays it's all obsession over immigration in Germany and conspiracy theories for some reason? 
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Feb 4, 2016 00:25
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Cingulate posted:Why do you assume the SD of Haitian IQ is 15? That's a very good point, although I maintain my bad logic was better than his bad logic. I prove theorems in statistics, I don't generally apply them.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:25
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Patrick Spens posted:Literacy rate Haiti 60% A fun fact I learned recently: In the 1860s the country with the highest literacy rate per capita was The Kingdom of Hawaii and those numbers never went down. By his logic we should all be worshiping at the throne of the divine Ali'i right now
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Feb 4, 2016 00:31
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Jack of Hearts posted:That's a very good point, although I maintain my bad logic was better than his bad logic. I prove theorems in statistics, I don't generally apply them. (I'd extrapolate it to be around 10 actually, if you'd ask me.) You could question his general approach - for example, is it even valid to compare IQs across completely different cultures and living conditions? (Probably only to a limited degree at best!) But math wise, I don't think you're much ahead of him, if at all.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:40
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Cingulate posted:At worst, he made your mistake plus mixing up 15 with 10. At best, he either knew or estimated the IQ SD of Haitii. Given your contrarian nature, you might do a better job of explaining your objections, since that's the whole point.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:47
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Jack of Hearts posted:Given your contrarian nature, you might do a better job of explaining your objections, since that's the whole point. Also, I'm not sure I'm a contrarian ... I think I've just grown intellectually very conservative. I distrust thoughts.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:50
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I assume these figures are in comparison to some first-world nation's average (because otherwise the average Haitian would have an IQ of 100, compared to other Haitians) and I would wonder if there might be linguistic obstacles to the deployment of the test, as the native language of Haiti is Haitian creole, while most education is conducted in French for prestige purposes. Therefore, if an IQ test is administered in French, of course Haitians would do poorly on it, just as I imagine most Americans would do poorly on a test written in Hawaiian creole. e: I gather Haitian creole is similar enough to French that a native speaker of Haitian could "kind of get it," rather than if - say - the test was administered in Japanese, to which they would rightfully go "I can't read this poo poo, what are you trying to pull, International IQ Man??" Nessus has a new favorite as of 00:53 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:51
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Nessus posted:I assume these figures are in comparison to some first-world nation's average (because otherwise the average Haitian would have an IQ of 100, compared to other Haitians) and I would wonder if there might be linguistic obstacles to the deployment of the test, as the native language of Haiti is Haitian creole, while most education is conducted in French for prestige purposes. Therefore, if an IQ test is administered in French, of course Haitians would do poorly on it, just as I imagine most Americans would do poorly on a test written in Hawaiian creole. Now I know you're the kind of guy to use your logic and, first and foremost, imagination over the usually more productive task of looking up stuff, but, don't be. It's not good. I know it's easy and often comforting, but it's not good.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:55
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Cingulate posted:(I'd extrapolate it to be around 10 actually, if you'd ask me.) Why?
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Feb 4, 2016 00:55
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Google tells me US Black IQ mean/SD is around 85/13, so maybe Haiti is at 60/10? I'm not saying it's a smart guess.
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Feb 4, 2016 00:58
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Cingulate posted:Google tells me US Black IQ mean/SD is around 85/13, so maybe Haiti is at 60/10? Nothing necessitates variance decreasing with mean, though. So what's your criticism?
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Feb 4, 2016 01:02
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Jack of Hearts posted:Nothing necessitates variance decreasing with mean, though. So what's your criticism?
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Feb 4, 2016 01:04
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massive spider posted:https://twitter.com/rooshv/status/694769625129717760 Roosh does not actually understand what satire means. No one in the manosphere does.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:16
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Cingulate posted:Sorry, criticism of what? Aright, explain in shallow depth for non-mathematical observers of the thread what was wrong with my criticism of ESR's citation of IQ statistics. And and the same time explain this: Cingulate posted:Google tells me US Black IQ mean/SD is around 85/13, so maybe Haiti is at 60/10? Variance doesn't decrease with mean, so aside from the fact that you chose a mean that's eight points lower than ESR's, explain why you assume variance is lower, when variance is independent of mean under your chosen metric.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:21
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Cingulate posted:Now I know you're the kind of guy to use your logic and, first and foremost, imagination over the usually more productive task of looking up stuff, but, don't be. It's not good. I know it's easy and often comforting, but it's not good.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:23
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pr0zac posted:What makes you think he lives in Poland? Dude's American. He says he lives in Poland on his blog. I suppose its possible he's lying, but he writes about his life in Poland quite a bit. edit - I do think he was trying for satire in that article, but is just bad at it. btw, in case it hasn't been linked, his stuff seems downright sane compared to some dark corners of this particular internet, especially this place. https://heartiste.wordpress.com/ Which seems to be a mashup of Pickup Artists/Game, White Nationalism/Antisemitism, work-out tips and rabid Donald Trump supporters. Whoever writes this conceals their real identity, which is too bad as I would love some surreal youtube videos in the style of this blog. taters has a new favorite as of 01:51 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 01:39
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Cingulate posted:Why do you assume the SD of Haitian IQ is 15? You already know what the agenda is, so what would it actually matter?
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Feb 4, 2016 02:14
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taters posted:He says he lives in Poland on his blog. I suppose its possible he's lying, but he writes about his life in Poland quite a bit. His name is James C. Weidmann and he's a known quantity.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:16
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You guy's realize that there's absolutely no point in discussing ESR's bullshit because it's based on data collected by Richard Lynn, right?Silver2195 posted:Slightly off-topic, but if you don't believe in it at all, how do you explain the correlation to, e.g., reaction time? Something can be a product of factor analysis (e.g. g-factor) but that does not mean that is is "real", cue Plomin and Visscher's (et al.) failures to find "g in the brain". In any case, ESR makes the worst case for psychometrics and behavior genetics that gives away how little he understands, as does his "interpretation" of the massively range-restricted twin studies these idiots love. A scientific racist who doesn't even understand scientific racism. Someone post what he said about using PUA tactics because that was really embarrassing.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:35
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Merdifex posted:IT'S ONLY RAPE WHEN WHITE MEN DO IT poo poo LORDS. What GBS loser did you piss off enough for him to spend  on you?
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Feb 4, 2016 04:57
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Woolie Wool posted:What GBS loser did you piss off enough for him to spend I didn't, but I always get excited when I can pull out this smiley 
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Feb 4, 2016 07:25
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Nessus posted:Sorry bro, my IQ is just too goddamn low because of my inferior genes and the mindkilling programming of the Leftist cathedral HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:You already know what the agenda is, so what would it actually matter? In the long run, people's agendas matter much less than truth. Jack of Hearts posted:Variance doesn't decrease with mean
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Feb 4, 2016 11:38
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Cingulate posted:Also, I thought Return of Kings used to be some neomasculinity/pickup artist thing, but nowadays it's all obsession over immigration in Germany and conspiracy theories for some reason? Right-wing talking points and right-wing conspiracy theories. Not seeing the inconsistency with neomasc/MRA/PUA here. Jack of Hearts posted:But perhaps I'm biased, as I also don't believe in the left-right political dichotomy at all, beyond "where did you sit in the French National Assembly." Whenever you take something multidimensional and turn it into something linear, you necessarily lose a ton of information. I find it useful as a short-hand, as in the first part of my post. The term is meant to be used (by its canonical-ised definition) to refer to your view on hierarchical structures, with left-wing being for eradication of hierarchy and right-wing for preservation of hierarchy, but I tend to use it as short-hand for 'progressive' vs. whatever the hell kind of batshit bigotry the GOP peddles. You're right that the terms are functionally meaningless for determining what someone's concrete policy is.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:07
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Cingulate posted:Whose agenda? This ESR person? I don't know, probably something related to taxes and government trying to help the disenfranchised? Assuming it's the ESR, AKA Eric S. Raymond, he's a semi-decent programmer / early UNIX expert who basically is the GOP's answer to Richard M. Stallman and the GNU Project. Both are anti-state libertarians but whereas rms is pro-civil liberties and anti-racist, esr would happily repeat the Japanese internment camps system with Muslims until the War on Terror is 'over.' Which isn't very libertarian, but I think we all know how capitalist libertarians tend to be massive white supremacists.
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Feb 4, 2016 14:11
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I thought RIchard Stallman was more of a hippie anarchist/anarcho-syndicalist than a libertarian.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:39
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Tesseraction posted:Assuming it's the ESR, AKA Eric S. Raymond, he's a semi-decent programmer / early UNIX expert who basically is the GOP's answer to Richard M. Stallman and the GNU Project. Both are anti-state libertarians but whereas rms is pro-civil liberties and anti-racist, esr would happily repeat the Japanese internment camps system with Muslims until the War on Terror is 'over.' Which isn't very libertarian, but I think we all know how capitalist libertarians tend to be massive white supremacists. He's just interested in things, okay https://twitter.com/St_Rev/status/679849241947181056
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Feb 4, 2016 15:43
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Woolie Wool posted:I thought RIchard Stallman was more of a hippie anarchist/anarcho-syndicalist than a libertarian. I think he self-describes as libertarian but I could be wrong - either way, you're right in that he's more anarcho-syndicalist than anything. For better or for worse.
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Feb 4, 2016 15:45
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