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I've enjoyed the changes. I agree that the combat was too fast to allow for any strategy other than trying to put dps the mobs. There is the whole vulnerability mechanic that gets no love because in order to take of it, you have to hit the one or two skills that can capitalize on it. The problem is that instead we were just mashing buttons as soon add they were off cool down. If someone wanted to play a healer they are poo poo out of luck. Combat was so fast the fight was over before the healer could land a meaningful heal even though they were instant cast. People had their own heals anyway and when someone tried to be a healer in the groups I was in they either got the heal off right as the target healed themself, or right as they died. Crowd control was a joke too. The only viable play style was raw dps. I'm glad there are other options starting to emerge. The combat before was nothing but face rolling your biggest attacks as soon as they refreshed so I spent more time looking at my skills than health.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:47
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hakimashou posted:Im not sure I really recommend this game anymore. (snip) That's a little dramatic. Especially when there are overgeared level 60s talking about how they can one-shot rooms of mobs in dungeons and solo manticores or whatever. That is probably the sort of thing Citan is trying to put a stop to. Game balance is always a work in progress in MMOs that are complete, let alone the ones still in alpha that are making blatantly experimental tweaks and asking for player feedback.
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Feb 3, 2016 05:48
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Anyone got a pig juice? I've got a few un-pig juices banked but seem to have lost my pig juice. Now that I've finished cow (you should try cow) I figure I may go ahead and knock out the rest of the animals too. Deer was boring but I didn't really gear for it. I geared for cow and it was a good time. I'd like to try pig next and see if my suspicions are correct. Judging from the mods I've seen in the past, it looks like it plays like a de-taunt rogue that focuses on vulnerabilities and removing rage. It might pair up well with necro or animal handling.
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Feb 3, 2016 06:38
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mushroom_spore posted:That's a little dramatic. Especially when there are overgeared level 60s talking about how they can one-shot rooms of mobs in dungeons and solo manticores or whatever. That is probably the sort of thing Citan is trying to put a stop to. he put a stop to that stuff months and months ago. maybe i did get up on the wrong side of the bed today, but "oh, another patch that makes all the poo poo you used to be able to do now a frustating head-bang against a wall, great." Anyway, its still a charming and brilliant game, it just has an increasingly bad combat system. But, there are about a zillion other things to do.
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Feb 3, 2016 09:53
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hakimashou posted:he put a stop to that stuff months and months ago. No he didn't, because people are still doing it. It's been a concern that long, and he's been testing/adjusting fixes that long, but no, game balance didn't magically become perfect back then and fix everything overnight. And Inimicul is right, it is important and worthy of continued dev attention because this isn't supposed to be a game where you just mindlessly DPS faceroll zerg everything in your path. It's probably better to adjust your expectations rather than view the game in light of "well I can't AOE entire rooms of mobs solo and win (or solo bosses, or whatever), therefore it sucks now." mushroom_spore fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 18:15
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mushroom_spore posted:No he didn't, because people are still doing it. It's been a concern that long, and he's been testing/adjusting fixes that long, but no, game balance didn't magically become perfect back then and fix everything overnight. And Inimicul is right, it is important and worthy of continued dev attention because this isn't supposed to be a game where you just mindlessly DPS faceroll zerg everything in your path. Giving the mobs more health without nerfing how much damage they do, and nerfing player damage at the same time makes zerging the only way to get through stuff though. It was a couple months ago at least that they'd done a big gear revamp and also buffed manticores, and every day big groups of people zerged them since they dropped a ton of loot for everyone. This was after people were able to solo them. Since then their loot has been nerfed so people don't really bother doing them at all anymore. Anyway, the problem is the pendulum has swung too far back the other way, and is still going. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 19:45
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Well, for those who didn't know: dungeon chests, which normally have a cooldown timer of three hours, have had a cooldown of 15 seconds since the patch, so there is maint happening now. Remains to see what shakes out from that, be it a rollback, a mass banning, or who knows what.
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Feb 3, 2016 20:17
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Haven't read through the entire thread but I wanted to say I have recently started playing and quite enjoy it. The learning curve is immense but fun. The only thing I can say I really dislike so far is crafting, low storage and always working on favor. Name: Tzrid
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Feb 3, 2016 21:09
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hakimashou posted:Giving the mobs more health without nerfing how much damage they do, and nerfing player damage at the same time makes zerging the only way to get through stuff though. This would be good feedback to actually give Citan (who is always asking for player feedback) or discuss on the PG forums (which is also giving feedback) instead of posting here telling players to just give up/quit, is what I'm trying to get at.  UnhealthyJoe posted:The learning curve is immense but fun. The only thing I can say I really dislike so far is crafting, low storage and always working on favor. The initial favor curve is a bit rough, but it does slowly introduce you to different mechanics (like surveying or gardening) and give you some goals/direction. Don't stress too much about getting all the favor immediately; just focus on your choice of storage and vendors and maybe a couple NPCs necessary for your skills. As you get more skills and cash, building more favor will get easier since you can get better items to drop for tons of favor at once. 
mushroom_spore fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 21:23
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Moinkmaster posted:Well, for those who didn't know: dungeon chests, which normally have a cooldown timer of three hours, have had a cooldown of 15 seconds since the patch, so there is maint happening now. Remains to see what shakes out from that, be it a rollback, a mass banning, or who knows what. Worked for winterprize too. I tested a number of chests in different dungeons to see if they consistently let you reloot them over a period of like 15 minutes and reported them all of them, like this time yesterday. Didn't tell anyone about it since its sort of a serious bug. I was testing out the changes to wolf cave and noticed someone just sitting next to the first loot chest with a bunch of items on the ground. Took about 20 seconds to figure out what was going on. I went to gob dungeon next, tested and reported, then winter nexus, where i discovered winterprize respawned too. Reported it all in separate reports so he'd be spammed by it and notice quicker. But did keep some winterprize for myself  I'm surprised it lasted so long without anyone noticing/spilling the beans. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 23:08
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mushroom_spore posted:This would be good feedback to actually give Citan (who is always asking for player feedback) or discuss on the PG forums (which is also giving feedback) instead of posting here telling players to just give up/quit, is what I'm trying to get at. I do and did! Don't get me wrong I really, really do like this game. But the obsession with 'make combat take longer' seems to be slowly making GBS threads up all the things it touches. One of the things in the disastrously bad patch (objectively disastrously bad, hosed up milking cows, the lovely evasion system, hosed up all pets, infinite dungeon loot, etc etc) is a nerf to the power infusion from golems. Something that was actually allowing fights to take longer, now is nerfed so that they end shorter with you dying because you ran out of power. You basically have to give up a whole combat skill to use a golem, its a pretty good trade off, but no more. I've done BC since I first started, it was one of the original 2 skills i leveled to 50. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 23:09
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One thing I've learned over the years is that if a patch screwed up a game, it can be reversed. At least there's nothing fundamentally wrong with the game unlike almost every other MMO on the market where the entire premise is flawed.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:26
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hakimashou posted:I do and did! Having combat take time more than "slam out my one or two really hardcore buffed attacks, then loot" isn't a bad thing, but yeah, fiddling stats so that player characters lose a good chunk of damage and sustain and defense, while buffing mobs you come across, is kinda the opposite of longer fights. I enjoy a good cause of death as much as anyone else, but really  Like, have they ever laid out WHY 'longer fights!!' is this thing that is being chased, and so desirable, to where its the only cart to hitch to? For a game that tried to do something a bit different, turning itself into a Wildstar clone of pixel-perfection where sometimes the RNG fucks you anyway and you lack the tools to get the job done short of just zerging it seems dumb as hell.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:29
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Alexander DeLarge posted:One thing I've learned over the years is that if a patch screwed up a game, it can be reversed. Pretty much this. I mean, unmilkable cows or broken chest respawns isn't even the silliest thing that's ever happened from a patch oopsie. There were multiple occasions in the past where the AI of every single creature in an entire zone (usually Eltibule) broke down completely, resulting in inanimate punching bags. Or how about the time when you could make people's games crash by playing the tuba at them?  It's alpha, this stuff is gonna happen. And then it'll get fixed and most of us will be laughing about it later. Moinkmaster posted:Like, have they ever laid out WHY 'longer fights!!' is this thing that is being chased, and so desirable, to where its the only cart to hitch to? AFAIK it's basically so character roles other than "just smash it instantly, idiot" (and occasionally "just buff me sometimes and then we smash it instantly, idiot") have an actual place in the grouping experience. If you can't end every fight in five seconds or less, suddenly the person who can throw out extra heals or hold aggro as a tank or lock down half the enemies with mind control actually matters. Obviously it's unfinished and still being tweaked and adjusted and kicked around until the bugs fall out, but I don't think Citan's end goal is entirely crazy-talk. mushroom_spore fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 23:34
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drat it's still down for maintenance. Was everyone going hog wild with the loot crates or something?
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Feb 3, 2016 23:52
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mushroom_spore posted:AFAIK it's basically so character roles other than "just smash it instantly, idiot" (and occasionally "just buff me sometimes and then we smash it instantly, idiot") have an actual place in the grouping experience. If you can't end every fight in five seconds or less, suddenly the person who can throw out extra heals or hold aggro as a tank or lock down half the enemies with mind control actually matters. I guess the better way to phrase the question is, "why is 'longer' the word that is taking the place of 'interesting' as a goal?" hakimashou posted:drat it's still down for maintenance. If at least half of the people on since patch yesterday hadn't hammered the things, I'd be shocked.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:54
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mushroom_spore posted:AFAIK it's basically so character roles other than "just smash it instantly, idiot" (and occasionally "just buff me sometimes and then we smash it instantly, idiot") have an actual place in the grouping experience. If you can't end every fight in five seconds or less, suddenly the person who can throw out extra heals or hold aggro as a tank or lock down half the enemies with mind control actually matters. This has been my take on it as well. I think it's a step in the right direction but maybe not the best path. I can understand the desire to build glass cannons. Its mana burn wizards all over again. I'm shocked people have been able to find enough mods of the same type for all their gear to make huge nukes like that. Someone in global was bitching that his cow only hit for 9000 instead of 18k after patch. Seriously? Inimicul fucked around with this message at 01:18 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 00:58
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I guess so far with the game it isnt the favor part it is the fact for a lot of things to do to make money require crafting for work orders or abusing how much things are bought for. Either make sausage or cow shoes or whatever else people make in bulk and sell to get money is boring as hell to me. LET ME KILL STUFF! Find cool loot. Sell it, give it to others than need it. With that being said, im 60/56 Fire Magic / Mentalism and I still use level 35 - 40 gear because I can't find anything else. I enjoy how the loot is done for sure but wish it were a bit more basic so items would work across player skills. Finding deer/spider/pig/ice magic/physical attack all the time never lets me improve my guy. I am forever stuck in kur tower/yeti cave because of this. I love the ability to solo however. I can heal myself, repair armor and cast spells for other things. Not quite a buff system like asheron's call but I enjoy the fact my character is the jack of all trades.
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Feb 4, 2016 01:45
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I've ben farming the named orcs in Kur mountains for level 50 gear as a stepping stone to desert loot. What I don't craft myself or buy from vendors to retask for my needs. I think a lot of problems will be solved when more crafting is added and the level 60 solo area goes live.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:28
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PG dev posted:Typically, player discussion of exploits is not allowed. In this case, I will say that there was a bug that allowed players to loot time locked chests repeatedly and without waiting the normal amount of time. Essentially, players were able to loot chests almost instantly. Last time I found an exploit I reported it without exploiting it, it was filling your inventory so the only stackable item was salt peter or council certs or ancient stencils or some other thing, then spamming grain sacks or scrolls on the ground, and it would only complete the loot cycle when you'd rolled the item that fit into the stack, so it essentially let you get whatever item you wanted out of grain sacks or scrolls. It got fixed. This time? helped myself to some free winterprize, some gear i didnt want to melt down for aug/trans xp, some potions, some rings to trade in for favor I think. Why? I used to be able to do Winter Nexus and wolf cave to those same chests without too much trouble. I'd do a daily nexus run to grab some winterprize and roll the dice on the chests. Then the stupidity about 'make combat take longer,' so gently caress it, I'll make up a bit of my losses. I posted this in their forums just now, and pointed out that they have an issue with many of their long tenured players and that the relationship between players and devs is not what it used to be. If they ban me, fine, not the end of the world. If they are going to take this knucklehead poo poo in their alpha that personally, the game doesn't have a future anyway. Games about "i have a vision and i am so good at this and you guys will just have to learn to appreciate it" don't last and aren't any good in the end. I had 25 bucks worth of fun since april, so they can keep my KS money too.
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Feb 4, 2016 02:43
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are you druk?
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Feb 4, 2016 03:06
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yeah
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Feb 4, 2016 03:19
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Feb 4, 2016 03:25
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I am RubyRawd on there... I have not played as long as you... but the things you enjoy about the game that I had quoted are things I really enjoy as well. It feels more like an open Asheron's Call concept where I can specialize in none and all but be self sufficient. Hope it doesnt go to the tank/dps/healer mode cause I'll leave right quick. I agree with you on many points.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:25
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they banned me  I've got a bunch of leather crafting mats on an alt account if anyone wants them. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 03:34
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hakimashou posted:they banned me That's some semi-aggressive exploit resolution. At least it's only a year instead of forever. Not that it matters due to alt accounts And that it's an alpha
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Feb 4, 2016 03:58
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ThndrShk2k posted:That's some semi-aggressive exploit resolution. Nah it's all the progress since april gone / progress was meant to carry over once it was 'released' / and I'm not gonna linger where I'm not wanted. I almost quit yesterday over the latest round of lovely changes, so this kind of scoots me out the door. I am on my alt account right now with a bunch of leather rolls and poo poo if anyone wants them. I am probably going to delete the game pretty soon so this is time limited. hakimashou fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 04:00
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Im gonna email them and see if they'll unban me I guess. developer posted:Servers are back up, sorry for the down time! After some discussion, we realized that we have been way too lenient in the past with serious exploits like this. That can't keep happening. So we've banned users who obviously exploited the situation.
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Feb 4, 2016 04:05
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Ah! That explains why I couldn't log in to refresh my hangouts after I woke up. I always miss the zero day exploits. At least Hurlon still loves me. Best hangout option ever.
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Feb 4, 2016 04:42
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Now that they've gotten around to banning everyone from their forums, it shows up as a red text name at the bottom. They banned some really active and long time people!
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Feb 4, 2016 04:46
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Wow. I'm really curious to see who all got the scarlet letters. I'm betting all of DOM.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:27
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Inimicul posted:I think a lot of problems will be solved when more crafting is added and the level 60 solo area goes live. Player market stalls will also be a huge deal in terms of just being able to go down and buy favor items with gold from vendoring whatever combat drops, if that's your preference. Currently if you want to do that you have to a)be very lucky and find it on a vendor and b)pay double price. Or be fortunate enough to catch someone on global who's selling. hakimashou posted:If they ban me, fine, not the end of the world. If they are going to take this knucklehead poo poo in their alpha that personally, the game doesn't have a future anyway. Really obviously intentionally exploiting really obvious bugs you've discovered has been bannable since day one, sorry you got busted but you knew better. Punishing exploits is also pretty much the opposite of proof a game has no future.
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Feb 4, 2016 05:43
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mushroom_spore posted:Really obviously intentionally exploiting really obvious bugs you've discovered has been bannable since day one, sorry you got busted dude but you knew better. On the one hand this is true, on the other a bunch of active, longtime players deciding to exploit a bug should cause more of a reaction than "that's disappointing, oh well."
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Feb 4, 2016 05:44
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senrath posted:On the one hand this is true, on the other a bunch of active, longtime players deciding to exploit a bug should cause more of a reaction than "that's disappointing, oh well." On a test server alpha
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Feb 4, 2016 06:16
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Gear isn't even part of the "we're not going to wipe poo poo" anyway, so why does it really matter?
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Feb 4, 2016 06:20
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senrath posted:Gear isn't even part of the "we're not going to wipe poo poo" anyway, so why does it really matter? Citan: "We're at a crucial time in the game's development in a lot of ways, and banning a couple dozen players right now is a huge blow. But flooding the game with thousands of magical items is also a huge blow to our ability to make the game better." The item wipe is in all likelihood a very long way off, and flooding the game with tons of extra items/wealth/favor from lots of players spending hours exploiting has a ripple effect in the meantime. The game's development also does kind of rely on the playerbase being good responsible testers and reporting bugs and moving on, not using cheat codes to give themselves tons of extra free poo poo because they were mad at the devs that day and therefore should get a free pass. Come on, now. EDIT: Also from Citan's post. "After some discussion, we realized that we have been way too lenient in the past with serious exploits like this. That can't keep happening." mushroom_spore fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Feb 4, 2016 |
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Feb 4, 2016 06:50
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So remove the items? The fact that a bunch of longtime players apparently are feeling alienated enough by the current direction development is taking should make Citan think more about what's happening on his end, not just go "This is heartbreaking. Better ban them and move on."
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Feb 4, 2016 07:15
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Been ages since i last played this, but apparently most of my gear is either gone for being legacy gear and thus "too powerful" or straight up broken (mods dont do anything). Add in the whole "lets make monsters take longer to kill for reasons" with the frankly outdated random evasion system and im back in the crypts punching skeletons for new stuff when last i played i could solo the bosses in the mushroom cave. I have little to no sustain, my abilities have been nerfed and im missing some item slots. What the hell happened?
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Feb 4, 2016 07:33
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senrath posted:So remove the items? The fact that a bunch of longtime players apparently are feeling alienated enough by the current direction development is taking should make Citan think more about what's happening on his end, not just go "This is heartbreaking. Better ban them and move on." 
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Feb 4, 2016 07:35
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BombiTheZombie posted:Been ages since i last played this, but apparently most of my gear is either gone for being legacy gear and thus "too powerful" or straight up broken (mods dont do anything). Add in the whole "lets make monsters take longer to kill for reasons" with the frankly outdated random evasion system and im back in the crypts punching skeletons for new stuff when last i played i could solo the bosses in the mushroom cave. There's a "good old days" a lot of us had hoped would come back.
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Feb 4, 2016 07:38
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