|
Thanks for the input. I do want the MC section to reflect the game's style. I'm just not sure what changes I should make to do so. The rules are in a fairly stable state after several re-writes, so I'll get to work on the MC section next.
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 02:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 00:02 |
|
|
So, instead of exchanging damage on a 7-9 on a hack and slash, it only happens on a hard move. Hard moves trigger whenever everyone looks at the MC? That seems odd. 7-9 is usually "get some of what you want, or everything at a price" and here it's like "You succeed instead of double succeeding."
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 02:27
|
|
|
There's a preview of the 2E playbooks and basic moves up, for anyone who wants to take a look.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 04:07
|
|
|
Doodmons posted:This is your daily reminder that Car Wizards is a game that exists and has the following rule in it: I need this game in my life.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 05:02
|
|
|
Bucnasti posted:I need this game in my life. It's actually a supplement for Katanas & Trenchcoats, which is not a PbtA game, but here you go: Katanas & Trenchcoats Car Wizards And as a special bonus, Katanas & Trenchcoats, Episode 7: Celestial Boogaloo, for all your Demon: The Fallen/In Nomine/latter-season Supernatural needs. I reviewed the base game and Car Wizards over in the FATAL and Friends thread if you want to take a look: Base game and Car Wizards.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 16:20
|
|
|
GimpInBlack posted:It's actually a supplement for Katanas & Trenchcoats, which is not a PbtA game, but here you go: Well, I wonder what I'm throwing money at tonight!
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2016 16:38
|
|
|
Mr. Damage Control posted:Thanks for the input. I do want the MC section to reflect the game's style. I'm just not sure what changes I should make to do so. The rules are in a fairly stable state after several re-writes, so I'll get to work on the MC section next. Alright, I've had some time to look it over and collected my thoughts. Anyway, enough of that aside. I get the vibe that you're main exposure to the engine is through Dungeon World. Now, Dungeon World is not a bad game, but it's not the best World game. Levels are kind of unnecessary and constraining, for example. Most PbtA games don't use them and are better for it. Also, you don't need that many moves per playbook, but that could be personal preference. I think some of the moves -- like Polygot -- just end up feeling weak and going to a more standard number of moves per playbook with a more meta-textual standpoint may improve the playbook moves. To be honest, it'd be cleaner, I feel, if the game kept more to the 6-, 7-9, 10+ ranges. 12+ usually show up as Advanced Basic moves things or the such in most games. I find it better, personally, to normally keep to those ranges and only use 12+ rarely for a set class of things, like -- as previously said -- Advanced Basic Moves. Now, doing combat in PbtA has always been a bit weird. The Advanced Battle Moves in Apocalypse World were good, but thrown into the back of the book and often overlooked. Dungeon World ignored these rules so you may not have seen them. You have some Advanced Battle Moves, so you may have read them, but you may want to check them out. The best way to handle battles it to think how they work in fiction. If it's Exalted, they should be elongated, showy affairs. I would suggest taking a gander at Nathan Paolletta's World Wide Wrestling. It has a great move to handle big, showy brawls built for people to show off and perform impressive moves. That, to me, seems like a good fit. Apocalypse World 2nd Edition is in Kickstarter and it's battle moves are open for non-backers to look over. These may be too concise, but it may help you to look them over. Your current system reminds me of AW 2nd Editions moves, though a bit different. I'm not saying it must change, but I feel the current system may, in my opinion, be too specific and feel like D&D 3e's special actions, ya know? Charge, Parry, etc. just may be too limited in scope and a little too grounded for an Exalted-like game. It'd be better if the playbook gave you gear and connection leads (like Hx questions). Playbooks should be completely self-contained. Their main benefit is that you can give them out to people and they can build their entire character with them alone. And, therefore, they can play the game with just the basic moves, etc. and their playbook. Your damage seems high. Most NPCs tend to take 2-harm in PbtA games. Doing 4 damage by default with bonuses may be much. A base 7+Stat system for Harm may be a bit too much. A lot of PbtA's harm system is bound to that 6-harm expectation so it might require rejiggering to make that work if that's your angle. Personally, I'd suggest working it closer to the 6-harm system with damage that applies well. The amount of harm NPCs can take, after all, is more based on their narrative importance, afterall. Not like in other rpgs where it may be aligned to in-game power/difficulty. I guess it's not impossible, but it would require a lot of work to make it sing. And, your current system, includes monsters with health levels that are more than a little bloated. A 30+ health creature would be way, way too much for a game like this. I feel some moves don't hit the 10+: success, 7-9: partial success, 6-: failure well enough. In the sense that some move's 7-9 feel like full successes with 10+ feel like success plus a bonus. Failure in PbtA is interesting and moves things forward. Most of the time, the players should have to make real concessions that force things forward. That dynamic should help the overall game Personally, I don't like multi-stat moves and Strive might be better with a genre reinforcing stat choice like how in AW you can only dodge bad things by rolling +Cool because you need to be Cool to pull these things off. Your advancement feels a little slow for PbtA. The playbook facilitates quick level advancement by design. Picking new moves in the middle of play tends to work out just fine. What I really mean, though, is that it feels like your XP system might be a little slow. I love the idea of Great Curse, but it could probably just be +Will instead of the lower of the two. That's no deal breaker, though. Honestly, a lot of things feel too situational. It really feels like you're playing this too much like D&D at time. Don't get me wrong, D&D is a fine game, but its ideas don't transfer over well to this engine. There are too many +X stuff and the like. Math really should be kept in such a manner that a player will only have a -1 to +3 modifier, unassisted, with +3 being rare. And all the damage boosting things feel like a band-aid for the bloated health system. I noticed you did some things in tons for the Void Ships. PbtA is best when you don't use Gold-like resources. It's better to just use 2-barter as an abstraction, for example. Not too much accounting, more abstract resource management. It just tends to roll better in this game and it allows you to use money in moves effectively. Alright, I hope this didn't seem rude or came off ramble-y. I kind of rolled this out all at once and I feel like that may have made it hard to parse and I may have screwed up my point at times. I could get in more detail, but I feel that could be a bit too much to do. I hope this helps you out with your game!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 05:58
|
|
|
I agree with Covok. Although Exalteds are powerful, the point of PbtA is to bring the pain, force choices, and see what happens!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 07:54
|
|
|
Hey, what do you know, I'm writing an Exalted hack - Lords of Creation. https://docs.google.com/document/d/12niMZRCEB-doHFFxVFL_sYUSlwlE4bUoRrpLPiYpnI4/edit?usp=sharing I suspect it suffers from the same problems as Damage Control's effort, though I've tried to make the Anima Banner the metric by which exalted are forced into hijinks. We've had a playtest, and it went pretty well. Hopefully get another one soon. Let me know what you think, if you get a chance to look at it. It's still very draft form at the moment, but the only thing you really need to the know is that everyone gets the basic moves, and you get another set of "basic moves" from your exalted type. You can check out a couple of example playbooks in full layout https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ssoH7YZYcYTTNGdjFsd0VTbHc/view?usp=sharing and https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-ssoH7YZYcYUHl1XzNxU0lyTTg/view?usp=sharing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 11:13
|
|
|
Nifara posted:Hey, what do you know, I'm writing an Exalted hack - Lords of Creation. I'm just skimming through at this point, but I think you have the some good ideas: -Getting differrent stats and a different periphal moves that cover what most PbtA have as Bssic Moves by Exalted Type is a great, great way to do a WoD-esque multisplat design in PbtA. It really establishes how different each group interacts with world. That said, Lunars need one more stat. PbtA works best with 4-5 stats. -Your weapons do a lot of damage, but you kept a 6-harm max and clearly want battles to be one roll affairs, judging by the Solar move. So, that's absolutely fine. Just know that Exalted NPCs will need some armor-like mechanic if you want them to survive. Normal people stand no chance against Exalted and should die in one hit so I like that. -The 7-9 on Pray's "the God doesn't hear it" is too much like backing out of the action when you realize they're consequences. -The fact raising armies and contacting gods are everyone's basic moves are nice and handled well. You can put the exceptions by Exalted type in the relevant playbook to save space. Only Dragonblood need to know they spend less, for example. You should make sure to have a page on the Army rules in your basic moves pdf to speed up play. Having to dive for those in play sucks. -The Excelenices being a 12+ or nothing deal is a little problematic. It makes it hard to adjunct 7-9 or 10+. Unless these are advances for another move and I'm not seeing it. It'd be better if 7-9 gave you the boon, but it causes a complication and 10+ just gave you the boon. Edit: I see now they advance something, but that move uses a different stat so it's still problematic. -I highly, highly suggest not to have one stat start at +3 and the other at +2. PbtA thrives on partial successes. That and failure drives the plot foward. Unlike other engines, failure isn't a roadblock. +3 is just too good for a starter and will make it boring as well as the possibility of two +3. I get Exalted are larger than life, but it's better to model that through move text. -I love that your XP triggr reinforce the genre! -Currently, Lunars have no combat move. -Alot of things relating to Health seems to come back in hours or minutes. That can work, but maybe there is a better way to handle it. If nothing else, it can be hard to remember as currently presented. Maybe present the info as a basic move. As in, "when an hour passes, heal a harm." -The layout on the playbooks looks good to me. And that's what I got from my skim. Didn't look too closely at non-solars or the excellencies themselves, for the record. I kike where this hack is going, hope it works out, and would be willing to help again in the future.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 15:16
|
|
|
Warning: LONG It's awesome to get feedback, and so fast. Major thanks to you! Covok posted:-Getting differrent stats and a different periphal moves that cover what most PbtA have as Bssic Moves by Exalted Type is a great, great way to do a WoD-esque multisplat design in PbtA. It really establishes how different each group interacts with world. That said, Lunars need one more stat. PbtA works best with 4-5 stats. Honestly, that's what the whole hack is based off - I suddenly had a eureka moment, and it all just clicked from there. I'm torn about Lunars, though I know you're right - perhaps a casteless or wyld stat would make sense for them. Covok posted:-Your weapons do a lot of damage, but you kept a 6-harm max and clearly want battles to be one roll affairs, judging by the Solar move. So, that's absolutely fine. Just know that Exalted NPCs will need some armor-like mechanic if you want them to survive. Normal people stand no chance against Exalted and should die in one hit so I like that. Yeah, exalted antagonists get bunches of armor (just like exalted PCs), so that's fine - plus I have a number of MC moves, which I should totally write into the document, guh, which mean that you can twist this around on people ("charms" for different exalts which let you do stuff in response). Covok posted:-The 7-9 on Pray's "the God doesn't hear it" is too much like backing out of the action when you realize they're consequences. Totally fair. How about something like: On a 7-9, choose: the god wants something more in return for showing themselves, or them answering you angers an enemy you didn’t know you had. Covok posted:-The fact raising armies and contacting gods are everyone's basic moves are nice and handled well. You can put the exceptions by Exalted type in the relevant playbook to save space. Only Dragonblood need to know they spend less, for example. You should make sure to have a page on the Army rules in your basic moves pdf to speed up play. Having to dive for those in play sucks. I will do that, definitely. Thanks for pointing it out. Covok posted:-The Excelenices being a 12+ or nothing deal is a little problematic. It makes it hard to adjunct 7-9 or 10+. Unless these are advances for another move and I'm not seeing it. It'd be better if 7-9 gave you the boon, but it causes a complication and 10+ just gave you the boon. Edit: I see now they advance something, but that move uses a different stat so it's still problematic. I just need to explain this differently I think - I found it hard to explain on the page, but my playtest group got it pretty fast. Basically, the excellencies enhance the basic move for the caste by saying "you can use these options in exchange for essence when you use that move in this specific situation, but you have to roll a different stat". So, for example, the Dawn move is: Lords of Creation posted:When you engage in epic combat with a person, thing or place, roll+Dawn. On a 10+, choose up to 3. On a 7-9, choose 1: When you engage in epic combat by righteously smiting your foe with your own hands (and you have the excellency), you can choose to roll+conviction instead of +dawn. If you do, you advance the move, and you can use charms you know for that excellency as options when you're prompted to choose, as long as you're willing to spend essence. Covok posted:-I highly, highly suggest not to have one stat start at +3 and the other at +2. PbtA thrives on partial successes. That and failure drives the plot foward. Unlike other engines, failure isn't a roadblock. +3 is just too good for a starter and will make it boring as well as the possibility of two +3. I get Exalted are larger than life, but it's better to model that through move text. I would actually agree 100% - this was a real problem in the playtest, and I just didn't address it. I'll knock them down a notch. Covok posted:-I love that your XP triggr reinforce the genre! Thanks! I wrote the "stunts" after feedback from the playtest, and I'm looking forward to taking them for a spin. Covok posted:-Currently, Lunars have no combat move. They do, but it's not immediately obvious. The Lunar stuff is the most recent (I haven't finished writing all the playbooks, for starters), and the one I'm least sure about. I wanted to match the rhythm of the other exalt types by having basic moves match to castes, but with the lunars only having three, that's a challenge. The combat move is: Lords of Creation posted:When you change yourself to survive, roll+full. On a 10+, choose up to 3. On a 7-9, choose 1: I'm still pondering if it works - any feedback on how to alter it would be appreciated. Covok posted:-Alot of things relating to Health seems to come back in hours or minutes. That can work, but maybe there is a better way to handle it. If nothing else, it can be hard to remember as currently presented. Maybe present the info as a basic move. As in, "when an hour passes, heal a harm." This is a good call I think. I'll write something up. Covok posted:-The layout on the playbooks looks good to me. Good to know I'm headed in the right direction. Thanks again!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 15:35
|
|
|
I'm glad you respond well to constructive critiques!Nifara posted:On a 7-9, choose: the god wants something more in return for showing themselves, or them answering you angers an enemy you didn’t know you had. That could work. I like how it could include the God itself revealing a lack of allegiance. It definitely feels more like a partial success than backing out. Nifara posted:When you engage in epic combat by righteously smiting your foe with your own hands (and you have the excellency), you can choose to roll+conviction instead of +dawn. If you do, you advance the move, and you can use charms you know for that excellency as options when you're prompted to choose, as long as you're willing to spend essence. Hmm, in-hindsight that does make sense. I guess the best way of doing it is making sure there is an example in the final document on how they work so people can check if they get confused. Or include after "you advance the basic Dawn move when you do certain things -- when doing so, changing the stat of the move as described --" in all the playbook's Excellencies and Charm's text. Nifara posted:They do, but it's not immediately obvious. The Lunar stuff is the most recent (I haven't finished writing all the playbooks, for starters), and the one I'm least sure about. I wanted to match the rhythm of the other exalt types by having basic moves match to castes, but with the lunars only having three, that's a challenge. The combat move is: I feel that trigger is a little too vague for that particular effect. Maybe play on the fact Lunars are meant to the mythical barbarians of Rome and go like "when you give into your animal nature and unleash your fury." Nifara posted:perhaps a casteless or wyld stat would make sense for them. I hope this helps out as well. When I get more time today, I'll take a close look at the other Exalt types.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 16:03
|
|
|
That's great - I'll make some notes on a Wyld stat (I think that makes the most sense out of the options), and I'll look at tweaking the lunar moves accordingly. I'll definitely include some text to make things clearer for the activation of charms, thanks for that. Don't bother checking out the Dragon Blooded yet, as it's still pre-playtest stuff - I'll be reworking it a lot. But the sidereals are a laugh - be very interested to hear what you think.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 16:08
|
|
|
I just noticed a little typo on the playbooks: under Anima, it says to reset Anima to =0 when it hits +4 while the Anima Tracker section says to wait till the end of the encounter. Whichever is true should be on both just to avoid a little confusion. If it's just the Sidereals, I'll give a quick look over the Sidereal moves. -Adopt an Identity feels a little long in the tooth. I like how clear it makes that it's absolute, but it might be something to be more concisely written. -Stop and Begin is pretty cool, if I'm right in thinking it's a "one adventure ended, a new one begins" thing. Though, if more than on Sidereal is on the table, it could lead to a mess of rolls. I think it shouldn't be a problem though. -Why would you want to "turn joy to pain" when you're the one experiencing it? It makes sense if you makes others feel it too, but, outside that option, why? -Witnesses can remember who it began can be nice, though situational. Nothing wrong with it, just felt like pointing it out. Maybe an excellency based on making it seem like whoever you wanted start the fight. Fake Edit: I just realized Sidereals have a peaceful theme throughout so are probably pacifists by nature: so the move works a lot better. -I'm not sure what "Bring An End" is supposed to be used for at all and I worry about the "something new begins" option leading to game halts if not selected. This one might need to be more specific. -The first two options for Sidereal Astrology doesn't work because NPCs never roll. -Going back to the Solar moves, "They with perfect poise under pressure" under Change direction sounds like a typo. Hope this helps out again. Also hope I'm not heaping this on too heavy.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 16:26
|
|
|
Well, heck, since everyone else is posting theirs I'll post mine. I made this for a friend's 30th birthday, running as DM for 8 people at once; figured character creation and gameplay would be faster, and it worked pretty well! Disclaimer: I've never played a PbtA before! This is heavily, heavily based off Broken World (posted earlier in this thread, based off the webcomic Kill Six Billion Demons, and not terribly well received here as a game). The main thing I wanted to play with is having many mini-playbooks that could be combined to give lots of options - I had lots of ideas, but since I've never actually PLAYED this sort of game, I don't know whats unbalanced or what's appropriate. Tear it apart and let me know if anything is good or interesting - I'm not trying to make a proper game out of it or anything, so I'm not going to be heartbroken. That being said, if you LIKE anything, tell me that too. No bonds, no experience, only basic levelling mechanics because this was designed to be explicitly run as a one-shot (on his birthday), but we still managed to get a good (if incredibly murdery) story out of the deal. It doesn't really have a name besides JohnGame and it's found here. edit: Also the document itself is open for comments! Dog Kisser fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 16:29
|
|
|
Not heaping this on too heavy at all. I'd kill for this amount of structured feedback - I have a person in my gaming circle who'll read poo poo, and that's it. I now vomit out games at a fearful rate, so getting anyone to look at my stuff is awesome.Covok posted:I just noticed a little typo on the playbooks: under Anima, it says to reset Anima to =0 when it hits +4 while the Anima Tracker section says to wait till the end of the encounter. Whichever is true should be on both just to avoid a little confusion. Balls, yeah that's at the end of the encounter. I'll fix that. Covok posted:-Adopt an Identity feels a little long in the tooth. I like how clear it makes that it's absolute, but it might be something to be more concisely written. Going back and reading it, youch, yes it is. I'll see if I can come up with something a little snappier. Covok posted:-Stop and Begin is pretty cool, if I'm right in thinking it's a "one adventure ended, a new one begins" thing. Though, if more than on Sidereal is on the table, it could lead to a mess of rolls. I think it shouldn't be a problem though. You've hit its use on the head - I guess it could spiral out of hand with all-sidereals. My next playtest should be all sidereals all the time, so I'll find out then! Covok posted:-Why would you want to "turn joy to pain" when you're the one experiencing it? It makes sense if you makes others feel it too, but, outside that option, why? Good question - and it's a typo! It should read: find the joy or pleasure in a moment. It's a social move, for influencing people and locating stuff. Covok posted:-Witnesses can remember who it began can be nice, though situational. Nothing wrong with it, just felt like pointing it out. Maybe an excellency based on making it seem like whoever you wanted start the fight. Fake Edit: I just realized Sidereals have a peaceful theme throughout so are probably pacifists by nature: so the move works a lot better. Your fake edit has it - most sidereals don't kill all the time. And I'm happy it being incidental - it's very thematic to the sidereals (who have real trouble getting anyone to remember them at all). Covok posted:-I'm not sure what "Bring An End" is supposed to be used for at all and I worry about the "something new begins" option leading to game halts if not selected. This one might need to be more specific. I need to work on this move, to put it lightly. It's, weirdly, sort of a combat move, but it's also a social move, and perhaps an investigative move. Sidereals are weird. To actually explain, the important word is proper. You can only use the move if you're doing something "properly", and that's fictional. I'll need to find a way of getting more across when it can be used, and making its use more explicit. The "something new begins" option is there to give players agency over the next dramatic moment - you've brought that conversation to an end, do you want to start a new one... or maybe start a fight? I don't know, it's plausibly too vague even for the sidereals. I'll seriously think it over, and if you have any suggestions that'd be great. Covok posted:-The first two options for Sidereal Astrology doesn't work because NPCs never roll. Despite having written more PBTA in the last few months than I can express, I sometimes still fall back into this habit of assuming everyone rolls. An option for PCs and for NPCs makes the most sense I think - I'll fix it. Covok posted:-Going back to the Solar moves, "They with perfect poise under pressure" under Change direction sounds like a typo. Absolutely correct. It should read: They act with perfect poise under pressure Thank you again, so much. If you want to read more PBTA wot I wrote, please let me know, and I will splurge all over the thread.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 16:45
|
|
|
By the way, you might want to remove the copyright on your playbooks. You don't own the Exalted property so, unless you file off the brand, you can't copyright this as, in tabletop games, you can only copyright fiction, not mechanics. As such, you are risking some reprisal from the holders of the property. You can mention your company made it, but don't put a copyright unless the fiction belongs to you. To be frank, I'd suggest finishing it as is then filling off the Exalted setting. Exalted 3e did not go over well with fans, so far, and some devs are already on the train to capitalize on that discontent. Like Kevin Crawford with Godlike. It would best to formulate your ideas using the setting, but later remove it and replace it with a similar, implied setting if you want to sell it, which I assume you want to do because you have a company. Nifara posted:Good question - and it's a typo! It should read: find the joy or pleasure in a moment. It's a social move, for influencing people and locating stuff. Nifara posted:I need to work on this move, to put it lightly. It's, weirdly, sort of a combat move, but it's also a social move, and perhaps an investigative move. Sidereals are weird. Maybe play to Destiny or Fate or those kind of abstracts. Like, when you do something as Destiny has planned or something. The question then becomes "how do I know what destiny has planned." Nifara posted:Thank you again, so much. If you want to read more PBTA wot I wrote, please let me know, and I will splurge all over the thread. Probably best to keep it to one thing at a time. I hope that isn't rude and I'd love to help, but I'm afraid it might be too much for me to comment on alone, depending on the volume of stuff you've made. You can post it here, if you want, but I'm not making any promises that I can help with everything. My initial interest with this game came from the really cool ideas your playbooks suggested leading me to look deeper and wanting it to succeed. I can't say I can do that for all your products from both an interest and time standpoint. But, perhaps, someone else in the thread could so mentioning your other works could help you out, regardless of my personal ability. Edit: Actually, I wouldn't mind chatting more on design. I don't often have someone to bounce design ideas off of, directly, outside a small group of good friends. They listen and give good feedback, but it's always good to have an extra person to broaden the opinions you can get. dog kisser posted:Well, heck, since everyone else is posting theirs I'll post mine. I made this for a friend's 30th birthday, running as DM for 8 people at once; figured character creation and gameplay would be faster, and it worked pretty well! I really hope this doesn't sound rude, but I didn't look over, but I do have a suggestion: you might want to look into playing a short game of a different pbta, reading AW or something of the sort. I'm of the mindset that it can be hard to work with something without experiencing it for yourself. There is a clear difference between the theoretical as-written and the practical in-play that may not get communicated from looking things over. If nothing else, Broken World is still in dev itself so it isn't the best place to base the concept of the entire engine off of, no offense to the creator of Broken World. Looking at a more complete game might help you out. I'm sorry if that's rude because I really don't want to come off that way or come off pompous or pretentious, but I just don't think it's a good idea to try to hack something you've never played for the reasons you listed yourself and more. Fake Edit: I felt bad just saying that so I skimmed it a little. It honestly feels like your treating it too much like D&D. Moves really need to push the fiction. There shouldn't be moves just labeled "Melee attack" or "Ranged Attack." If it's a detective games, they really should just be one move called something like "Going In Hard," "Blasting The Perp," "Feeling Lucky (as a play on the Dirty Hairy thing)," or something of the sort. And the effects need more fictional effect. Also, rolling damage in PbtA isn't the best and only Dungeon World does that. It honestly makes things a bit more random than intended, makes it more difficult to balance, ignores that PbtA puts a lot of the "magnitude of Damage" stuff into the roll itself, and breaks the easy-to-get-into-for-newbs nature of just needing 2d6 (something you can get out of a monopoly box, if needed). Covok fucked around with this message at 17:20 on Feb 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 17:14
|
|
|
Covok posted:By the way, you might want to remove the copyright on your playbooks. You don't own the Exalted property so, unless you file off the brand, you can't copyright this as, in tabletop games, you can only copyright fiction, not mechanics. As such, you are risking some reprisal from the holders of the property. You can mention your company made it, but don't put a copyright unless the fiction belongs to you. To be frank, I'd suggest finishing it as is then filling off the Exalted setting. Exalted 3e did not go over well with fans, so far, and some devs are already on the train to capitalize on that discontent. Like Kevin Crawford with Godlike. It would best to formulate your ideas using the setting, but later remove it and replace it with a similar, implied setting if you want to sell it, which I assume you want to do because you have a company. Well, poo poo. I did that on automatic. I'll scrub it off them ASAP. I should have realised. I don't really have a company. I have a logo. That's totally the same, right? Covok posted:That makes it a little better. I can see a reason to turn it to pain. It might need some more hook to make it clear it's social. Like, "when you speak (communicate/show/etc.?) the joy or peace you find in the moment. Makes sense. Covok posted:Maybe play to Destiny or Fate or those kind of abstracts. Like, when you do something as Destiny has planned or something. The question then becomes "how do I know what destiny has planned." That gives me some really nice ideas about potentially having a move to read the loom of fate, to replace the sidereal astrology move that at the moment doesn't function. I like that very much. Covok posted:Probably best to keep it to one thing at a time. I hope that isn't rude and I'd love to help, but I'm afraid it might be too much for me to comment on alone, depending on the volume of stuff you've made. You can post it here, if you want, but I'm not making any promises that I can help with everything. My initial interest with this game came from the really cool ideas your playbooks suggested leading me to look deeper and wanting it to succeed. I can't say I can do that for all your products from both an interest and time standpoint. But, perhaps, someone else in the thread could so mentioning your other works could help you out, regardless of my personal ability. Honestly, you've already been lots of help, it's not rude to say you're not going to do someone more of a favor! I'm glad you enjoyed it, and when I eventually put more stuff on here for comment, I hope it sparks your interests as much. I'll put some things up when I feel happy to do so. Covok posted:Edit: Actually, I wouldn't mind chatting more on design. I don't often have someone to bounce design ideas off of, directly, outside a small group of good friends. They listen and give good feedback, but it's always good to have an extra person to broaden the opinions you can get. Sounds good to me. Recently I've been thinking about cycles/processes in PBTA - how to construct moves that create a cycle within a game that generates plot in an easy to digest manner. So, I'm sort of dipping my toe into design on a couple of ideas at the moment, before fully jumping in, and one of them is for a dark and gritty fantasy crime game I'm tentatively called Bronze Circle. It's about people right at the bottom of the pile, desperately struggling to get out of the slum, with the backdrop of this amazing pristine wondrous fantasy city that they'll never get to be part of, even though they literally live on its outskirts, because they're too poor and desperate. So, cheery stuff. So I have these two "flexible stats" in the game - Rep (how respected you are) and Scratch (how much cash you have). There are a couple of basic moves that play to that: Bronze Circle posted:When you speak to a contact for information, say who the contact is and why they’d know you, and roll+rep. On a 10+, they’re available and respect you enough to tell you something, or tell you who to speak to instead. On a 7-9, they know what you need to know, or know who to go to, but choose 1: You lose and gain rep across play, usually by getting cash, spending cash, getting a good reputation from doing stuff and by getting known to be a fucker who should be feared. There's some peripherals that play into this: Bronze Circle posted:If rep goes to -1, you look weak. Your word is worth poo poo, no one respects you. People will try and muscle in on your turf, a rival gang will call you out, or someone waiting for the right time makes a play. Resolve that, good or bad, and set rep=0. Now, the idea of these moves is to establish a circle - you get rep and scratch, and you have to spend it to get poo poo done, and if you push it too far bad stuff happens, and then you need to build them up again. Obviously, the MC is going to try and get the players to push it too far as much as possible... but what else can I do to encourage this cycle? Any ideas you'd have would be cool. Anything you want to chat poo poo about in terms of game design?
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 17:33
|
|
|
Nifara posted:I don't really have a company. I have a logo. That's totally the same, right? The only thing a company is, at it's most basic level, is some person trying to sell some good or service. The second you sell something, you become a sole proprietorship. How do you feel on the "finishing it as an Exalted hack for structure, scrubbing it clean, then giving it a similar implied setting" idea? I realized it sounded a little sketchy after I said it so I don't know if it's that good of an idea. It might be. Nothing wrong with being inspired, but that could be too direct and creep in rip-off territory. I don't know. Just felt weird after seeing that I posted that. Nifara posted:That gives me some really nice ideas about potentially having a move to read the loom of fate, to replace the sidereal astrology move that at the moment doesn't function. I like that very much. As do I. I think that's a great way to play up the Sidereals being celestial bureaucrats while also establishing that fate isn't set and Exalts can break it. There is actually a great structure to base this move off of: AW's Open Your Brain and MH's Gaze Into The Abyss. Nifara posted:Now, the idea of these moves is to establish a circle - you get rep and scratch, and you have to spend it to get poo poo done, and if you push it too far bad stuff happens, and then you need to build them up again. Obviously, the MC is going to try and get the players to push it too far as much as possible... but what else can I do to encourage this cycle? Treat them like more universal resources. Let them be spent or risked in more things. Take a look at this post/hack, the subsequent discussion, and the revised version. It's about having a Stamina-like resource, among other things, to make DW more Dark Souls. It integrates Stamina into almost all the moves to make it something you're constantly risking. Maybe you don't need to go that far, but, in a lot of crime stories, people live off reputation: it isn't a stretch to make it a resource to spend/risk in a lot of moves. But, also, a resource to be gained from other moves. Make it a balancing act to drive play: when one move drains it too much -- both fictionally and mechanically -- they should take the move to undo the drain. If something goes wrong when trying to undo the drain or circumstances cut you, their flex stat can end up hitting -1 and they suffer the penalty. It allows for it to be looming balancing act both in-fiction and in-mechanics. Nifara posted:Any ideas you'd have would be cool. Anything you want to chat poo poo about in terms of game design? Nothing at the moment, but I know I will in the future. Once I get the spirit back to work on my projects, one of them is an experimental PbtA title so it'd be nice to work back and forth on that, on ocassion.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 17:57
|
|
|
The thing I'm mulling over at the moment is exploring the "arranging fictional circumstances to you get to roll the move you want" angle of gameplay space. In the context of my espionage thriller game Enemy Action, what I was thinking of doing was having there be a small handful of moves for Raids - nothing as fleshed out as the Battle subsystem in AW2.0 but more along those lines than a simple 'murder somebody' move. Fictionally, Enemy Action occupies that slightly odd fictional space of the "realistic spy thriller" where it still doesn't really bear a lot of similarity to real espionage, but is still in this sort of surreal dark world where bullets kill people, plot armour is hard to come by, you can totally fall out of a window and shatter your leg and then be in a wheelchair for six months etc. Guns are almost as dangerous here as in real life so the last thing anyone wants to do is get into some sort of horrible harm-for-harm exchange of gunfire against opponents of equal footing. What you actually want to do, because this is still fictional dark world and not real life, is arrange circumstances so you get to have a slick montage of brutal action where you clean up the bad guys. While you're in that pseudo-space inside the montage, the fictional rules are suspended slightly and a bit of a transition into balls-out action movie can take place where the players are a lot more capable of dishing out and avoiding the hurt than they otherwise would be. This is a trope that's used all the time in the not-quite-real-life dark world of "realistic espionage" - preparation, knowledge, experience and subterfuge win out over anything else. If you plan and equip yourselves right, and get the drop on the enemy, you can do anything. Mechanically, I'm thinking this would be represented by a fairly vicious move or couple of moves for unprepared combat - one for horribly killing somebody who you didn't get the drop on and another for surviving an awful, close-in gunfight where you get surprised. Then, there's a move for straight up Raiding somebody - for which the trigger would be a fairly hefty fictional requirement. You'd need the right gear, the right circumstances, to have good intel on exactly what you're facing, fictional time to put together a plan. If you can actually line up all your ducks, you're rewarded with a move (or series of moves) which have significantly more favourable options and results. A lot more "you take out everyone in the room" compared to "exchange harm for harm". You reward playing to the fiction by giving the players a huge mechanical incentive to be those cool superspies instead of just idiots with silenced pistols. A lot of the playbooks would have moves that would waive some of the requirements for Raiding, such as the mastermind being able to come up with a plan in a few seconds or the Triggerman having an extra bag of grenades. Gear choices could be a big part of getting those fictional requirements for the trigger: a heartbeat sensor to see enemies through walls so you can plan your assault, for example. The final result would look something like a cross between John Wick and Rainbow Six: Siege depending on how many guns the players were carrying at the time. What I've learned from desperately bashing my head against a fairly conventional RPG in PBtA format for like two years is that PBtA really does not lend itself to "a group of people go into a location and have action adventures" very well.
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 18:30
|
|
|
Covok posted:I really hope this doesn't sound rude, but I didn't look over, but I do have a suggestion: you might want to look into playing a short game of a different pbta, reading AW or something of the sort. I'm of the mindset that it can be hard to work with something without experiencing it for yourself. There is a clear difference between the theoretical as-written and the practical in-play that may not get communicated from looking things over. If nothing else, Broken World is still in dev itself so it isn't the best place to base the concept of the entire engine off of, no offense to the creator of Broken World. Looking at a more complete game might help you out. I'm not at all offended - I have no emotional attachment to this write-up (party's done, after all!) It IS very D&D-ish, most of the people I was playing with have only that as a background. I was trying to kinda smash them together, with mixed results. I think 'Moves need to push the fiction' is a good concept to base any changes off of - I think I held back on going fiction-heavy so it was understandable to the newbies, but if I do anything with it in the future I'll keep that in mind. As far as the damage stuff, as the game went on I found I actually started keeping things more abstract rather than rigorously tracking damage - I hail from a D&D background too, so call it weaning myself of familiarity. What fictional effects the Moves did have was put to great use (far more so than the more mechanic heavy Moves), so I can definitely see leaning more heavily on that in the future. Thanks for the input!
|
|
#
?
Feb 8, 2016 18:38
|
|
|
Covok posted:The only thing a company is, at it's most basic level, is some person trying to sell some good or service. The second you sell something, you become a sole proprietorship. I guess so. When I actually sell a thing, I'll be in business... Covok posted:How do you feel on the "finishing it as an Exalted hack for structure, scrubbing it clean, then giving it a similar implied setting" idea? I realized it sounded a little sketchy after I said it so I don't know if it's that good of an idea. It might be. Nothing wrong with being inspired, but that could be too direct and creep in rip-off territory. I don't know. Just felt weird after seeing that I posted that. I'm honestly not sure - I don't want to just balls out steal stuff, and really I wrote this up because I a) loving love the Exalted setting and b) loving hate the Exalted system (any edition). It's more for me, my groups, and I guess goons who fancy some exalted hijinks. Covok posted:As do I. I think that's a great way to play up the Sidereals being celestial bureaucrats while also establishing that fate isn't set and Exalts can break it. There is actually a great structure to base this move off of: AW's Open Your Brain and MH's Gaze Into The Abyss. How did I not see that, I'll give writing up something akin to it a go today if I get time. Covok posted:Treat them like more universal resources. Let them be spent or risked in more things. Take a look at this post/hack, the subsequent discussion, and the revised version. It's about having a Stamina-like resource, among other things, to make DW more Dark Souls. It integrates Stamina into almost all the moves to make it something you're constantly risking. Maybe you don't need to go that far, but, in a lot of crime stories, people live off reputation: it isn't a stretch to make it a resource to spend/risk in a lot of moves. But, also, a resource to be gained from other moves. This is awesome, and I actually really really like the soulsworld hack - it's a cool idea. I'll look at integrating rep and scratch into more moves, and push more ways to regain it. Doodmons posted:...what I was thinking of doing was having there be a small handful of moves for Raids - nothing as fleshed out as the Battle subsystem in AW2.0 but more along those lines than a simple 'murder somebody' move... This makes lots of sense to me - if the game is about semi-realistic spy shenanigans, then I think it would be fair to work hurting people into more than one move, and give a range of modifiers. Doodmons posted:Mechanically, I'm thinking this would be represented by a fairly vicious move or couple of moves for unprepared combat - one for horribly killing somebody who you didn't get the drop on and another for surviving an awful, close-in gunfight where you get surprised. Then, there's a move for straight up Raiding somebody - for which the trigger would be a fairly hefty fictional requirement. This makes lots of sense. I'd go with four moves to cover this actually (though that's a lot): a move to survive a tense gunfight, a move to kick down the door and slow motion gun down the enemy without killing the hostages, an assassination move and a high-stakes martial arts close combat fight move. The tense gunfight move I'd crib from the preview 2nd ed text - free-for-all would work super well for this. The focus is on just getting the gently caress out alive, not necessarily being a badass. The kick-down-the-door/raiding move, I'd actually crib from the workshop move: My loving brain posted:When you plan to raid an enemy installation or secure position, say what you're doing and the MC will say "sure, but..." and then pick 1-4 of the following: Something like that. Assassination move could work (as much as I'm uncertain of its justification as a basic move in AW, it works here) like sucker someone. My loving brain posted:When you get the drop on someone and try to take them out, and you don't have a chance of missing, inflict harm as established. If there is a chance you could miss, roll+hard (or whatever). On a 10+, they take the harm. On a 7-9, they take the harm, but not before they shout out, fight back, or otherwise cause a problem. On a miss you screwed the pooch and alarms go off, reinforcements turn up, or your target turns out to be a loving ninja. Finally, for your high-stakes martial arts move, I'd crib from single combat. That way you can beat fuckers up if you need to, but it's a weapon of last resort. Which in a game like you've described, it probably should be. If you're struggling to get this into a format for PBTA, why not have a think about how to skew it into the PBTA model (everything is bad, pressure cooker relationships) and give people conflicting loyalties and secrets - I'm thinking like some of the stuff from Stasi or from burn mode in Night's Black Agents. Just some thoughts.
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 10:07
|
|
|
Nifara posted:I'm honestly not sure - I don't want to just balls out steal stuff, and really I wrote this up because I a) loving love the Exalted setting and b) loving hate the Exalted system (any edition). It's more for me, my groups, and I guess goons who fancy some exalted hijinks. Oh! Oh, ok that's good. In short summary, this was a silly misunderstanding. A bit longer would be that I misunderstood what you were trying to get at by putting what-I-thought-was-your-company's copyright on the playbooks. I hope you don't take that the wrong way, but I thought you may have wanted to, even if not for money, use it to promote your company because of the copyright and, if that were the case, it would likely have been best to go the route I suggested. Or I assume. I don't know if it's kosher to use fan projects of pre-existing licenses to promote your company's brand, but I assume it's not the best thing. But, if it's just a fun fan project for you and your friends, then there is no worry. Still, don't put a copyright on it, of course. Sorry for being weird, then. I was, just to make clear again, under the wrong impression and didn't want your nonexistent company to get into potential hotwater with Exalted's right holders (Paradox Interactive, I think). Also, I would like if you posted the hack when you were done. Looks fun so far. Edit: I know you said you had a logo and not a company, but a lot of people in this industry downplay things like this because of how casual the market is. Hence me feeling the need to explain what a business/company is. Covok fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Feb 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 15:25
|
|
|
No, it makes total sense, don't sweat it. I have stuff in the pipeline that I'm hoping to market and turn Moriarty Games into an actual company, but that's a way off, and this will never be one of those products. It's just I have a few standard playbook templates that I use, and they have my logo on them. Stupid mistake really. Again, don't sweat. And I will def post it up when I'm done. I'm getting distracted by fantasy criminals now though...
|
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 15:37
|
|
|
It's best to work on the project you feel passionate about at the moment, but always write down the ideas you get for other projects so you don't forgot them. Assuming no deadlines.
Covok fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Feb 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Feb 9, 2016 15:59
|
|
|
Covok posted:It's best to work on the project you feel passionate about at the moment, but always write down the ideas you get for other projects so you don't forgot them. Assuming no deadlines.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 00:08
|
|
|
As a side note, would you mind if I borrow the "different basic moves by broad category of PC" idea for one of my own projects in the future?
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 03:45
|
|
|
Ran my first Uncharted Worlds game on Sunday - really great system. I've run some DW stuff with the same players before, and they appreciated the customization of the Careers vs Class system. I think I'm better at this setting as well because spouting off crazy technical sounding poo poo is kinda my jam. My only real complaint has been the lack of examples of play. I suppose DW had the same problem before that play guide came out.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Of course not, go nuts. And while I think your advice is right in theory, it may have the painful side effect of leading me to never finishing anything...
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Nifara posted:Of course not, go nuts. Finishing projects is an entire discipline of its own. *eyes a thousand unfinished projects* ...yeeeeeaaah. (This is slightly on-topic because one of them is a PBTA game about revolutions, industrial and social. But it's not even slightly close to ready for feedback yet.)
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 14:25
|
|
|
Hey, I haven't checked the thread in a few days, but I just wanted to thank Covok. Your advice is great, and it's inspired me to work on my system some more. This is exactly what I was looking for, and I hope it'll help me make the game better.
|
|
#
?
Feb 10, 2016 22:40
|
|
|
Nifara posted:Of course not, go nuts. The hardest parts of a project are starting it and finishing it, in my opinion. Also, thanks. I hope this works out with the weird, experimental idea I have. Mr. Damage Control posted:Hey, I haven't checked the thread in a few days, but I just wanted to thank Covok. Your advice is great, and it's inspired me to work on my system some more. This is exactly what I was looking for, and I hope it'll help me make the game better. No problem, Mr. DC. I've been in a mood that's making me very open to giving feedback. Anyway, anyone know which playbook would be best for EL SANTO!, the man who supplexed the devil, in World Wide Wrestling RPG?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 02:03
|
|
|
Covok posted:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ndpaoletta/world-wide-wrestling-rpg-international-incident
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 03:01
|
|
|
Golden Bee posted:Back the new game expansion! There's a "Luchador Celebrity" gimmick. Already have. I should have known that was in there.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 03:02
|
|
|
I'm a little late to the "post your Exalted hack" party, but I was working on one of my own a while back and would be curious if anyone had feedback for it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 08:32
|
|
|
In the thread's opinion what makes a good MC/GM section for a PBTA game?
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 14:23
|
|
|
Benly posted:I'm a little late to the "post your Exalted hack" party, but I was working on one of my own a while back and would be curious if anyone had feedback for it. I think this is an interesting take on it - letting any of the playbooks play as any exalted type is a cool idea if you can get it to work. How were you thinking you would represent the impact of being different exalt types? I'm imagining Dungeon World esque backgrounds? Also, after a splurge of effort, I have the first playbook for Bronze Circle, my fantasy criminal scum hack. It'll need tinkering and testing, but check out The Beast - the basic moves are on the sheet too, which means you should be able to get a feel for how things work without needing any other material. The only move I couldn't squeeze on was the end of session - where you resolve connections if you should, and add a new one if reasonable. Be interested to hear some opinions if you've got them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 14:31
|
|
|
spectralent posted:In the thread's opinion what makes a good MC/GM section for a PBTA game? In most games, about half the GM Moves will be the same. Split them up, take their stuff, etc. The Agenda and Principles are where the differences really shine (and what your game's specific GM moves build from) What's your game about? That's the Agenda. How do you enforce the themes? That's your Principles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 17:31
|
|
|
All I know is that the AW MC guidelines are the best general purpose guidelines for running any sort of game I've ever read.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 18:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 00:02 |
|
|
Error 404 posted:In most games, about half the GM Moves will be the same. Split them up, take their stuff, etc. I agree mostly. Yes, AW basic MC moves are fine for most games, overal. But, Urban Shadows has a great idea on this: specialized MC moves for certain groups. The Night faction responds differently than the Wild, for example. It is great for directing play. For the surprsingly many Exalted hacks in the work (I guess this isn't surspsing considering how bad 1e, 2e, and 3e are), it can really help define how conflict with a mortal is a joke while battling a Solar is a big problem. Or establish the Fair Folk as insane and alien. But I could be wrong.
|
|
#
?
Feb 11, 2016 20:35
|
|