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Geostomp posted:To get back to this game, I've heard that Ubisoft has claimed that Aiden being such a terrible person was intentional. Do you think that's likely? Having watched all of that Bad Blood LP linked earlier, there's multiple times where characters call out how terrible Aiden is. Going forward, Aiden being terrible is going to be intentional, but comparing Bad Blood to the main game, there's no way it was originally.
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Feb 2, 2016 23:17
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Aithon posted:Every possible interpretation of Aiden has probably been "intended" at some point through development, the problem is that they didn't end up properly deciding and focusing on one. This. It's less Ubisoft backpedaling and more 'shifting the narrative to match the public's current outcry/perception of him.' So really, it's people figuring out Aiden is a terrible person and Ubisoft confirming it 
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Feb 2, 2016 23:18
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Geostomp posted:To get back to this game, I've heard that Ubisoft has claimed that Aiden being such a terrible person was intentional. Do you think that's likely? Not even slightly. Said it before - games can work with the protagonist being a terrible person, but it requires proper narrative framing. Aiden never suffers from his own hubris or poor behavior. Others suffer for it, but he never does. The worst he gets is that his sisterwife is kidnapped - a person who he's outright said he's estranged from and has minimal contact with, and aside from the occasional angstful one-liner he never seems to give a drat. Including when he risks her life by calling Damien's bluff. At the end, Aiden walks away with everything he wanted and no downsides. Aiden never has an introspective moment where he thinks about the terrible things he's done. He is, start to finish, totally fine with the fact that he is rampantly ruining the lives of everyone near him. He murders people without the slightest regret (and often only the flimsiest of reasons), he'll steal from anyone he feels like, ruins lives for no other reason than because he can, etc. A purposely terrible character would at least have a moment of "I have become the monster", but Aiden never shows any second thoughts about it. Aiden also never has anyone else call him out on it. He could get away with the rest, if it weren't for the fact that everyone else also treats him like he's golden. T-Bone gives him some poo poo at the beginning but almost immediately gives up his biggest secrets and deepest principles to help Aiden. Clara basically commits suicide to appease Aiden's guilt, despite the fact that he spends the entire game treating her poorly and physically assaulting her. Jacks comes the closest by being sad at him for twenty seconds after Aiden murders a dozen people, but that's literally never followed up on or touched again. Nicky has a brief shock of "Oh my god, you do bad things!" but then turns around and immediately does everything Aiden tells her to without question. Even the antagonists treat Aiden like a paragon. To say nothing of that final monologue. If Ubi meant for Aiden to be seen as a terrible person, they missed literally every cue to show it, went out of their way to have him treated as a hero by everyone and made the script reward him at every turn for being terrible. It's totally a backpedal after they realized they'd created a sociopathic rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 3, 2016 16:51
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Tempest_56 posted:Not even slightly. Said it before - games can work with the protagonist being a terrible person, but it requires proper narrative framing. The absolute best example of this is The Last of Us.
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Feb 3, 2016 17:12
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I'm amazed they had the restraint not to call the game #WATCHDOGS.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:39
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OldMemes posted:I'm amazed they had the restraint not to call the game #WATCHDOGS. That's the sequel title.
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Feb 3, 2016 19:50
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Tempest_56 posted:Not even slightly. Said it before - games can work with the protagonist being a terrible person, but it requires proper narrative framing.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:00
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Paul Zuvella posted:The absolute best example of this is The Last of Us. Definitely. Joel is a monster but one you 100% understand which is why he's so effective.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:11
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Mokinokaro posted:Definitely. Joel is a monster but one you 100% understand which is why he's so effective. The Last of Us remains one of my favorite games primarily for its character development. Joel's a raging rear end in a top hat who kills and tortures a bunch of people, but he doesn't really hurt anyone who didn't have it coming (whereas Aiden will steal hundreds of dollars from poor cancer patients so he can buy a new pistol). When Joel gets stuck having to take care of a bratty teenage girl, he doesn't grab her by the neck to assert dominance. He just grits his teeth and goes along with it, even diving in filthy water to float her on a raft because she can't swim. Over the course of a year, the two of them grow to respect and have loyalty toward one another: Joel views her as a surrogate daughter and goes further and further to protect her from harm and make her feel comfortable, while Ellie mellows out and learns to take care of herself. In the end, Joel is even willing to sacrifice an end to the apocalypse just to keep her safe. The key is that Joel and Ellie are both assholes, but both acknowledge their flaws and work to correct them.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:34
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chitoryu12 posted:The Last of Us remains one of my favorite games primarily for its character development. Joel's a raging rear end in a top hat who kills and tortures a bunch of people, but he doesn't really hurt anyone who didn't have it coming (whereas Aiden will steal hundreds of dollars from poor cancer patients so he can buy a new pistol). When Joel gets stuck having to take care of a bratty teenage girl, he doesn't grab her by the neck to assert dominance. He just grits his teeth and goes along with it, even diving in filthy water to float her on a raft because she can't swim. Over the course of a year, the two of them grow to respect and have loyalty toward one another: Joel views her as a surrogate daughter and goes further and further to protect her from harm and make her feel comfortable, while Ellie mellows out and learns to take care of herself. In the end, Joel is even willing to sacrifice an end to the apocalypse just to There we go.
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Feb 3, 2016 21:58
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Ometeotl posted:There we go. Don't forget about lying directly to her face about it!
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Feb 3, 2016 22:39
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That puts it in a way more negative light than I think it deserves. Joel grew to truly love and care about Ellie, when there was once a time where if it wasn't for trying to live up to Tess's demands to finish the job he probably would have just dumped her on the side of the road and kept running out of Boston. In the end, the Fireflies themselves weren't 100% sure that they could get anything positive out of killing Ellie. Ellie couldn't have agency, as she was drugged without being told that she was sacrificing her life in the operating room. It's arguable whether or not it was right for Joel to lie about how it all went down, but it's definitely not arguable that Ellie had her choice taken away by the Fireflies before Joel ever made his own. Joel was given the choice of either letting his surrogate daughter unknowingly get her brain scooped out so they might be able to cure the plague, or saving her life.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:00
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We should probably nip this in the bud, as this is a thread about Watch Underscore Dogs but: There is nothing in the game to suggest that Ellie did not fully understand getting to the firefly's would mean her death. In fact there are a few moments that suggest the opposite is true. Joel decided that the girl was his replacement daughter, and directly went against her own wishes for his own selfish reasons. Then he lies to her about it.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:06
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Plus it's heavily implied that the Fireflies don't know what they're doing, and all the scientists who could have made a cure got killed years ago, so they're going to play doctor and hope for the best. There's a good chance getting Ellie killed won't do anything, except humour the last remenants of a resistance so they can give the finger to the last remenants of the miltary. See, The Last of Us has a layered and complex story with characters who have ambigous motives. Watchdogs doesn't.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:11
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Fourteen year olds are well known for their critical thinking skills and ability to responsibly assess and pursue the course they want their life to take.
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Feb 3, 2016 23:20
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you guys wanna talk about monsters well lemme tell you about this nathan drake character he kills people and just makes jokes about it like a psycho!
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Feb 4, 2016 02:16
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RareAcumen posted:you guys wanna talk about monsters well lemme tell you about this nathan drake character but they were BAD MEN, and they clearly talk about it lots of times about how BAD MEN they are and pewpew in lots of places, like even an innocent village full of people! 
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Feb 4, 2016 02:22
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RareAcumen posted:you guys wanna talk about monsters well lemme tell you about this nathan drake character That's your neck 
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Feb 4, 2016 03:06
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I would pay for iconic terrible charecter merchandise for the Prototype series, shame Activism couldn't figure out what to do with their iconic hoodie character the way DogWatch capitalized on
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Feb 4, 2016 03:24
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Thats probably for the best, Alex Mercer has one of the dumbest outfits this side of Jrpgs.
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Feb 4, 2016 03:32
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Oblivion4568238 posted:Having watched all of that Bad Blood LP linked earlier, there's multiple times where characters call out how terrible Aiden is. Going forward, Aiden being terrible is going to be intentional, but comparing Bad Blood to the main game, there's no way it was originally. This reminds me of the Bioshock Infinite DLC where, after the stupidity of the "both sides are bad" message when the leader of the Vox Populi threatens to murder a child they then retconned it using the twins. Just a big ol' "We're not lovely writers, we totally had this planned out all along guys! Please believe us!"
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Feb 4, 2016 03:48
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Garrand posted:This reminds me of the Bioshock Infinite DLC where, after the stupidity of the "both sides are bad" message when the leader of the Vox Populi threatens to murder a child they then retconned it using the twins. Except then the Infinite DLC made the entire plot of the entire Bioshock series worse. Bad Blood actually somewhat improves things,
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Feb 4, 2016 03:53
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RareAcumen posted:you guys wanna talk about monsters well lemme tell you about this nathan drake character 
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Feb 4, 2016 04:15
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The precursor to Aiden. My god, it was right in front of us this whole time and we just ignored it.
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Feb 4, 2016 04:54
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interstate 76 remake looking good
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Feb 4, 2016 05:07
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So I guess we're in agreement about Ubisoft claiming Aiden was supposed to be a dick was just someone trying to cover their rear end about how much of a raging hypocrite their "hero" became after all the various script pages settled?
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Feb 4, 2016 06:23
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My only question is when do we play a game where you play as a criminal that does screw everybody over to get money real fast, but you're so loveable because you got 40 lego mans that are too adorable to defy even when they're ransacking your bank? I'm talking of course about Watch_Bonnes.
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Feb 5, 2016 03:17
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MegaMan is never coming back.
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Feb 5, 2016 06:28
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FinalGamer posted:My only question is when do we play a game where you play as a criminal that does screw everybody over to get money real fast, but you're so loveable because you got 40 lego mans that are too adorable to defy even when they're ransacking your bank? This is pretty much the exact set up for the opening of Saint's Row 3 but minus the robots
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Feb 5, 2016 10:14
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FinalGamer posted:My only question is when do we play a game where you play as a criminal that does screw everybody over to get money real fast, but you're so loveable because you got 40 lego mans that are too adorable to defy even when they're ransacking your bank? This is Saints Row 2
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Feb 5, 2016 14:51
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FinalGamer posted:My only question is when do we play a game where you play as a criminal that does screw everybody over to get money real fast, but you're so loveable because you got 40 lego mans that are too adorable to defy even when they're ransacking your bank? Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you. Servbots are just Minions who speak English.
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Feb 5, 2016 16:48
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END ME SCOOB posted:Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you. Shut the gently caress up, don't ruin Tron Bonne for everyone
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Feb 5, 2016 16:51
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END ME SCOOB posted:Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you. Take it back
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Feb 5, 2016 16:52
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END ME SCOOB posted:Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you. No, but nice try.
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Feb 5, 2016 16:56
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Testekill posted:Shut the gently caress up, don't ruin Tron Bonne for everyone JordanKai posted:No, but nice try.   TELL ME I'M WRONG, MOTHERFUCKERS
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Feb 5, 2016 17:00
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END ME SCOOB posted:Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:00
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END ME SCOOB posted:Hey. Hey, let me ruin this for you. I think you meant to say that Minions are just Servbots that are lovely. I'm pretty sure it is.
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Feb 5, 2016 17:19
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END ME SCOOB posted:TELL ME I'M WRONG, MOTHERFUCKERS The thing is that the character traits people dislike about Minions aren't character traits they share with Servbots. Servbots don't speak gibberish, they aren't loud and on tilt all the time, they don't have creepy, soulless eyes and they don't have hairlines that make them look like fat, middle-aged men. Servbots are also downtrodden and constantly the butt of jokes. Even when they're being smug and confident it's only to show how weak and insignificant they really are. From the amount of cringeworthy memes I've seen on Twitter and Tumblr, the impression that I get is that when the Minions are being smug and self-righteous you're supposed to relate to that and/or project yourself onto them. They radiate an obnoxious sense of self-worth combined with an extremely cynical worldview. The only thing the two really have in common is two colours in their colour palette and that they're henchmen. Other than that they're pretty different to be honest. That's my effort post about why Servbots rule and Minions drool. I hope you enjoyed it. 
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Feb 5, 2016 17:25
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END ME SCOOB posted:
You're wrong, motherfucker.
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Feb 5, 2016 18:03
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Those memes don't nearly have enough gradients, different fonts in a single sentence, JPG artifacts, or watermarks to compare to minion memes.
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Feb 5, 2016 18:13
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