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Kanos posted:ZAFT was actually doing a pretty bang-up job of ruining the EA's poo poo completely in SEED with nothing but N-Jammers and conventional forces; if the Archangel crew hadn't managed to stop the infiltrators from jacking the Strike for the EA to base mobile suit development off of, the EA would have been proper hosed even before the superlaser came online. This isn't really true. The EA was already mass producing Strike Daggers. It's worth remember that what the Alliance had problems with in SEED wasn't mobile suit development it was OS development. They already could mass produce mobile suits which were as good if not better than ZAFT's. They just couldn't get the pilots to keep up. The combat data from the Strike helped get them up and running but they already had mobile suits and test pilots prepared. (The Boosted Men/Extended as well as Coordinator defectors.) What really turned the war from them wasn't the Archangel but Rau playing both sides, leaking the N-Jammers and setting up JOSH-A. However that works both ways as JOSH-A was the thing that turned PLANT from assholes to Supreme Assholes. Without Rau the war would have been pretty different and probably have gone more into the line of the OYW where the Federation starts using their numbers and material advantage more readily. Rau's entire thing is that he moved the timetables for both sides way up. He gave the Blue Cosmos faction an opportunity to completely wreck the Eurasia Federation's leadership while also leaking N-Jammers while at the same time he helped push Patrick Zala into unquestioned leadership, stoked his paranoid and convinced them they needed to repurpose GENESIS into a weapon. Without him playing double agent poo poo probably would have gone really bad but also both sides would have had more moderating influences. (Or at least it would have been harder for them to eliminate the moderating influences on both sides with a single action.) This of course also discounts the sidestory material which specifies that in addition to the Strike Daggers the Earth Alliance also already had in play the Socius clones, several high-tier ace pilots, and a significantly larger group of Boosted Men/Extended pilots with their high-tier Gundam units, including at least one dude who is literally just Kira Yamato except slightly crappier. At very least the battle would have gotten a lot bloodier before it finished ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Feb 6, 2016 |
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Feb 6, 2016 21:22
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Yeah, I meant the OS development when I spoke about mobile suit development. Having functional mobile suits is completely worthless if only an extremely tiny subset of your military can actually use them while the enemy's entire army can use them. Rau is basically responsible for ZAFT not winning the war outright. If not for him, the EA would have had their headquarters decapitated and never would have had N-Jammer Cancelers to launch their nuclear counterattack on ZAFT's space forces.
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Feb 6, 2016 23:07
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I forget how SEED ended for the EA. I know one conscientious fodder stopped Zala and GENESIS, and I remember Yzak's mother was arrested by what I guess were a moderate faction, but what stopped the EA? Or did Azrael getting blown up do that?
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Feb 6, 2016 23:50
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NikkolasKing posted:I forget how SEED ended for the EA. I know one conscientious fodder stopped Zala and GENESIS, and I remember Yzak's mother was arrested by what I guess were a moderate faction, but what stopped the EA? Or did Azrael getting blown up do that? As for the EA, a lot of their lunar/space forces got crippled and a couple of their best commanders died over the course of the show (Haliburton and the 8th Fleet, for instance), but since the Cosmic Era makes it very clear that the Feds are glorified sock puppets to the aforementioned racist extremists, their fate is a footnote compared to the rest of the Earth Sphere.
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Feb 7, 2016 00:05
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I dunno what it was but I loved Azrael and hated Djibril. When you get right down to it they are both simply one-dimensional cackling madmen but Azrael was a better take on this than Djibril I guess? Also LOGOS wasn't so much Blue Cosmos as they were just a stereotypical Illuminati type group. I think that's one thing I genuinely liked about SEED. I can believe a Human/genetically altered human war would break out, and you'd get a bunch of crazies wh think neither side is the same anymore. Someone like Azrael, while a cartoon villain, is still a believable cartoon villain. Djibril went too far. He's introduced petting a cat and talking about how best to manipulate what remains of humanity after that thing falls on the planet. I think it was a bit much, to say the least.
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Feb 7, 2016 00:27
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Azrael is a cartoonish racist but at least has an understandable motivation in that he was worried about being replaced by a genetic superrace. (Also unfortunately we're in the era where insane cartoonish racists becoming political leaders is not really as fantasy as it should be.) Djibril lacks even the thinnest semblance of motivation that Azrael has beyond 'hates the coordinators but also is willing to let the planet get wrecked or some poo poo?"
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Feb 7, 2016 00:41
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What also helps Azrael stand out is performance and involvement in-universe. Nobuyuki Hiyama wonderfully sells Azrael to the audience and Azrael is also on the front lines of the action (from a safe distance, mind) when Blue Cosmos ups its presence within the Federation for the final half of the show. And the show commits to having Azrael not be in the shadows, and has him directly controlling what is going on in the EA's campaign against ORB and ZAFT until his death in the finale. By contrast, Djibril's VA does a by-the-numbers performance that makes the character fall flat, plus he is very much removed from the action and prefers to sit in his Super Secret Evil LairTM millions of miles away from the action. Djibril is also not helped by having so little presence during the show up until Berlin, when he slowly starts being on screen more, but then gets quickly shoved aside to remind people how more evil Durandal is. IIRC, the longest time Djibril is on screen is the very episode he dies and Requiem is destroyed. All other appearances are very short (roughly 5-7 minutes tops) and leave little for the audience to invest or care about the character.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:24
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Azrael's behavior and mannerisms are so over-the-top and silly that he's one of the few Gundam villains I would say is "fun", in spite of him being a genocidal..racist? Geneist? Whatever. He oftentimes steals the scene when he's on, and he appears often enough that the viewer can get a good grasp of who he is and how crazy he is.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:13
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closeted republican posted:Azrael's behavior and mannerisms are so over-the-top and silly that he's one of the few Gundam villains I would say is "fun", in spite of him being a genocidal..racist? Geneist? Whatever. He oftentimes steals the scene when he's on, and he appears often enough that the viewer can get a good grasp of who he is and how crazy he is. It's pretty great how two of the most entertaining and memorable characters in SEED are both insane genocidal maniacs.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:38
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I am pretty sure everyone remembers "YATTAAAA."
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Feb 7, 2016 02:48
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Kanos posted:It's pretty great how two of the most entertaining and memorable characters in SEED are both insane genocidal maniacs. Well not many people around here like the heroes so I guess it's natural to root for the villains. Rau is much better written than Kira, anyway. And Azrael is just fun. Although, oddly, my favorite character in SEED and the one I think was best written was Natarle. She's kinda both protagonist and antagonist.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:49
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Dub Rau is the best thing in the cosmic era, but Dub-Azrael is trying his best. Dub Djibril has only 1 good line, hammy, line. More proof Destiny is the worst.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:25
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ImpAtom posted:Lacus was already going back to PLANT. That is what prompted the attack. I think a lot of people forget that Durandal wasn't attacking out of the blue for no reason. Lacus was prepping to go back to PLANT when the assassination attempt happened. I don't remember this in the show. Was it in one of the side materials? Attempting to kill Lacus at some point was going to happen, but it was very dumb of Durandal to not to plan for failure and using such an open assault was very uncharacteristic of him along with ZAFT MS. Note how much quasi "Legal" hoops he jumped through to authorise going after Archangel. More Durandal like attempt would be to use a sniper or a bomb to see up either a kill or an excuse to take her into protective "custody" at which point you bring out Meer. Heroes bust her out couple episodes later after she finds out she is being used, try to bring Meer along and fail, if they use Freedom make their escape, Durandal would have cause to hunt them for attacking the PLANTS. Minerva gives chase resulting in the Nightmare episode. Have Meer continue but now shaken. As long as Durandal believed Lacus was unable to act or dead he will continue to use Meer. Using Meer before removing Lacus invited Lacus to TV jack him like she did. During almost the entirely of GSD Lacus didn't care about Meer being her. IIRC when asked about it she didn't care/mind/unconcerned. Look how surprised Durandal was when she showed back up. Kanos posted:ORB is theoretically not in control of the Earth at the end of Destiny. However, they have two major points of power: First, their leader is a personal friend and family member of the ruler of all of PLANT. Second, they are the home of one the most advanced producers of military technology in the Earth Sphere which is capable of churning out a massive army at a virtual moment's notice. Cagalli, their leader, is a wildly emotional girl with strong opinions on what is right and wrong and has a history of making terribly dangerous decisions for the sake of making a stand for her principles. How long do you think the remaining nutjobs running the Atlantic Federation are going to last without getting an Orb Freedom Invasion if they keep doing poo poo like genociding Coordinators? ORB got their poo poo wreaked once by EA and barely hold off the ZAFT. Both times they have two Nuclear Gundams to barely hold the line. ORB are seen either defensively or have limited forces fighting limited action where they can focus their forces incomparable to powerful ZAFT teams or the even seemingly limitless EA. ORB Lacus isn't Bush and wouldn't make a pre-emptive move towards war and drat well wouldn't support an invasion. Without Lacus ORB doesn't stand a chance and it is ORB's neutrality that is meant to protect it but like Switzerland, bring a big enough stick that taking ORB is somewhat costly. Cagalli was an emotional hothead back in SEED, but by the end of GSD she had matured into a far more stable leader who knew that she had to leave the physical battlefield behind to inspire her troops and forge a more lasting peace as a politician. Look how she plays the politician by removing Yuna in a couple of sentences. She declines to go into space to fight because she knows she can do more work where she was than riding a battleship or being a mediocre pilot. Zedd posted:Dub Rau is the best thing in the cosmic era, but Dub-Azrael is trying his best. The dub was poo poo both from the VA and the recording itself. Sounded like they had a cardboard box on their heads. NikkolasKing posted:Although, oddly, my favorite character in SEED and the one I think was best written was Natarle. She's kinda both protagonist and antagonist.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:06
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oohhboy posted:I don't remember this in the show. Was it in one of the side materials? Nope, it's in the show.It's also after Orb decides to basically gently caress over Coordinators. Andy has a conversation about how Kira, Lacus and he are going back to PLANT in the wake of that and then whoops, assassination time. After the attack Andy even talks to them about it and mentions how Lacus's idea of going back to PLANT isn't a great idea after all. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 04:11
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ImpAtom posted:Nope, it's in the show.It's also after Orb decides to basically gently caress over Coordinators. Andy has a conversation about how Kira, Lacus and he are going back to PLANT in the wake of that and then whoops, assassination time. After the attack Andy even talks to them about it and mentions how Lacus's idea of going back to PLANT isn't a great idea after all. Ah thanks, I forgotten about it. Durandal is still an idiot attacking her then and there on her home turf without a fall back plan and using Meer early.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:51
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oohhboy posted:Ah thanks, I forgotten about it. Durandal is still an idiot attacking her then and there on her home turf without a fall back plan and using Meer early. To be fair it almost worked, he just failed to account for the idea that she took a joke from Zeta Gundam and made it reality!
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Feb 7, 2016 05:01
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oohhboy posted:ORB got their poo poo wreaked once by EA and barely hold off the ZAFT. Both times they have two Nuclear Gundams to barely hold the line. ORB are seen either defensively or have limited forces fighting limited action where they can focus their forces incomparable to powerful ZAFT teams or the even seemingly limitless EA. ORB Lacus isn't Bush and wouldn't make a pre-emptive move towards war and drat well wouldn't support an invasion. Without Lacus ORB doesn't stand a chance and it is ORB's neutrality that is meant to protect it but like Switzerland, bring a big enough stick that taking ORB is somewhat costly. Orb was powerful enough that the Earth Alliance bothered to strike a deal with Yuuna to get the Orb fleet and army on their side, and Orb provided the bulk of the Three Ships Alliance's military force in SEED(literally everything except the Archangel, Eternal, Freedom/Justice/Buster). They're not a paper tiger when they're not being gangbanged by every other faction in the setting; next to ZAFT, they make the best mobile suits that exist in the setting. The only surviving faction of the Earth Alliance post-GSD is the Atlantic Federation, i.e. the one being run by incredibly militaristic and insane genocidal racists who want to murder all coordinators. It's not really far-fetched to imagine an armed intervention occurring at some point unless there's some sort of regime change in the EA and the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS psychos are tossed out. GSD Cagalli's defining moments are:
She then gives up the Akatsuki because Mwu needed a suit and then disappears from the story almost entirely until the end. She's not in any universe what I would call a mature leader who makes reasoned decisions.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:25
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oohhboy posted:Attempting to kill Lacus at some point was going to happen, but it was very dumb of Durandal to not to plan for failure and using such an open assault was very uncharacteristic of him along with ZAFT MS. No poo poo it's uncharacteristic of him, he didn't do it. Lacus did it. You people keep complaining about how things are uncharacteristic and unrealistic because you take everything in Destiny at face value and don't put any thought into it. Almost all of the real plot of Destiny, Lacus' world domination plot, happens behind the scenes.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:11
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Cagalli is supposed to be a competent soldier. Regardless of how you're going to argue about outscreen showing she's stated as someone who is capable of piloting an a high level and there's multiple scenes emphasizing she at least has some talent. (And she makes very effective use of the Akatsuki against everyone that isn't one of the top three pilots in the setting. It's also a mecha setting where a character hopping into a symbolic robot to fight to encourage their soldiers is a pretty basic part of the concept. It isn't realistic but it is a kind of non-realism that is pretty central to the genre. It's part of why Cagalli not keeping the Akatsuki is dumb because it is a giant glowing iconic symbol literally created for her, named exclusively for her and very obviously designed for her so let's give it to a random dude who isn't even from Orb and who has no thematic connection to it. It'd be like if the Zeta Gundam showed up and they gave it to Apolly instead. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 08:31
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ImpAtom posted:It'd be like if the Zeta Gundam showed up and they gave it to Apolly instead. Isn't this basically what happens in ZZ though? Not with the Zeta itself, but with giving the Hyaku Shiki to Beecha. Not that a flaw in ZZ justifies a flaw in Destiny though. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 08:43
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Raxivace posted:Isn't this basically what happens in ZZ though? Not with the Zeta itself, but with giving the Hyaku Shiki to Beecha. Beecha, for good or ill, is thematically set up as someone who is supposed to become a new leader which is why it makes sense he inherits the Hyaku Shiki and later a captain's seat. I don't think it's well executed but loving Beecha man.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:45
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Whizbang posted:No poo poo it's uncharacteristic of him, he didn't do it. Lacus did it. Still dumb. If she wanted to intervene she has plenty of opportunities to do so without the need to false flag. Plus she had almost the same position she had at the end of Destiny at the end of SEED that she turned down the first time. It's is more than likely the attack on Lacus was done by the Zala enthusiast, hence the ZAFT MS as they believe the Cylne faction had betrayed them by ending the first war. Durandal would create a plot hole if this was true. You want a reason to hate Lacus so you try to make her out as a villain when she clearly isn't. I like Destiny despite it's problems. It is the way off theories that are uncharacteristic and unrealistic. Kanos posted:Orb was powerful enough that the Earth Alliance bothered to strike a deal with Yuuna to get the Orb fleet and army on their side, and Orb provided the bulk of the Three Ships Alliance's military force in SEED(literally everything except the Archangel, Eternal, Freedom/Justice/Buster). They're not a paper tiger when they're not being gangbanged by every other faction in the setting; next to ZAFT, they make the best mobile suits that exist in the setting. The only surviving faction of the Earth Alliance post-GSD is the Atlantic Federation, i.e. the one being run by incredibly militaristic and insane genocidal racists who want to murder all coordinators. It's not really far-fetched to imagine an armed intervention occurring at some point unless there's some sort of regime change in the EA and the Blue Cosmos/LOGOS psychos are tossed out. Almost all of LOGOS gets arrested at heaven's base. All the EA defectors show there is room for moderates to exist in AF and else where in EA. Defectors from both side provided the bulk of the ships in SEED, ORB is seen directly providing one ship. In GSD again defectors and Terminal, ORB did directly provide more ships this time, but again the bulk were mundane ships from other sides. While they aren't a paper tiger by any means, it is a fleet that only exists when called upon and existence is reliant upon the infrastructure that the ships come from. Lacus/Terminal doesn't have the ability to support the ships long term. The fleet is somewhat of a do or die fleet as if they lose, they have no where to go and a long slug match would destroy it. Yuuna is an imbecile who couldn't find his rear end with his hands on it. Wouldn't you want an expendable fleet you can throw at something which is diplomatic deniable? Yuuna thought he was both elevating himself and saving ORB while doing neither. Cagalli was placed in an impossible situation where she didn't have enough pull or options. She was beaten by the other houses which took over with the loss of her Father and the other Elders that support him. The fleet turns or runs on EA? ORB burns. So they stay and die so ORB doesn't burn then and there. I also said she gets less emotional and hotheaded and it isn't still the end that she matures. At the last battle of ORB she is mostly using Akatsuki as a transport and tries to avoid combat while attempting to inspire the troops. Shinn gets to her first and even she knows she was beat. She realises she is not a good enough pilot and that her value as a pilot is far out weight by her ability to hold ORB together in the sudden power vacuum, it's something she can't do in space. Her inspirational power is nowhere near that of Lacus so her going into space is doubly redundant. ImpAtom posted:Cagalli is supposed to be a competent soldier. Regardless of how you're going to argue about outscreen showing she's stated as someone who is capable of piloting an a high level and there's multiple scenes emphasizing she at least has some talent. (And she makes very effective use of the Akatsuki against everyone that isn't one of the top three pilots in the setting. It thematically works if you consider that she realise that she doesn't personally need the power of a MS or to personally fight when she has the power of a nation. In effect she is passing on her old ways by giving Akatsuki to Mwu. Her father tried to tell her this, but had refused to listen so he built Akatsuki to give her the power she wanted but not needed and also to protect her from her own nature at the time. You have to by pretty crazy to take on BaCues in Jeeps with Bazookas. If it wasn't for Rambo, she would be dead with the kid. She doesn't pickup on this in SEED, but the message finally gets through in GSD. Rambo serves a similar function in SEED.
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Feb 7, 2016 10:24
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ImpAtom posted:Cagalli is supposed to be a competent soldier. Regardless of how you're going to argue about outscreen showing she's stated as someone who is capable of piloting an a high level and there's multiple scenes emphasizing she at least has some talent. (And she makes very effective use of the Akatsuki against everyone that isn't one of the top three pilots in the setting. Man, it's pretty hard to not make effective use of the Akatsuki, because it's pretty much totally bullshit broken. In a setting where physical weapons aside from vulcans and melee weapons have been entirely phased out, complete and total immunity to all forms of beam weapon with no reasonable limits up to and including absorbing battleship cannon hits is kind of busted. oohhboy posted:Almost all of LOGOS gets arrested at heaven's base. All the EA defectors show there is room for moderates to exist in AF and else where in EA. Almost is not all. They're an illuminati organization who had enough pull to puppet the entire world government. Losing some members is a setback. Cagalli doesn't really do any on-screen maturing. You can infer that she matures, but like I said, she fights in the battle of Orb and then almost literally vanishes from the series until she's shown in the ending.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:31
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Kanos posted:Almost is not all. They're an illuminati organization who had enough pull to puppet the entire world government. Losing some members is a setback. If she was still the emotional hot head that she was, at the end of GSD she would have continued her suicidal fight with Shinn. Instead of conning Yuuna she would have simply beat the poo poo out of him. During TV Jack, she acts like a Head of State. She leaves her past behind by giving back the engagement ring from Athuran. Her change is right there on screen, there isn't any need to infer it, I don't know how much clearer it can get.
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Feb 7, 2016 19:51
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oohhboy posted:They don't control the entire world government, Blue Cosmos/LOGOS Primarily control AF. If they were in control of Euroasia, they wouldn't have used Destroy on Europe nor trash the Euroasians at JOSH-A. The Eurasian faction is functionally powerless specifically because of the two things you mention. The Eurasian leadership was basically eradicated at JOSH-A, which leads to the Eurasian faction being so powerless and toothless that the LOGOS/Cosmos-controlled AF has no problem dropping the Destroy on the west coast of Europe and sending it on a death match to quell dissidents and ZAFT sympathizers because they know there will be no consequences. The Eurasian faction doesn't stop the Destroy, it's third parties from ZAFT and the Archangel who do. The Alliance was definitely a multifaceted organization in SEED but the one in GSD is almost 100% monolithic cartoon villain town. The closest thing to internal opposition in the Alliance on-screen that we see is Neo feeling vaguely bad about being ordered to commit war crimes. She didn't really have a choice to continue her suicidal fight with Shinn, that wasn't her decision. She almost got murdered nearly instantaneously and then Kira dove in and yelled at her to get the gently caress out of there. Cagalli didn't beat Yuna up herself but certainly didn't have a problem with the soldiers she ordered to arrest him beating the poo poo out of him instead. During the TV Jack she spends two minutes starting a speech that boils down to "Durandal Bad" before Meer takes over, and then Lacus ends up stealing the show anyway. Giving her engagement ring to Athrun is kind of a given since he spent a significant amount of the series fighting for another faction and spends a lot of time palling around with other women.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:06
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IT'S A GUNDAM...I mean, a dumb space uniform review....SeanBeanShako's Gundam Uniform Review Part 4: Federation Boogaloo. Oh boy, this is going to be a big one now people. Until now I usually covered a single person and what they are wearing but for this one I am more or less looking at an entire faction with several different branches of service and a million ranks. Needless to say, I'm going to have to just be brief and try and not get too bogged down over a certain uniform.  Zeon is beat, suck it down! So, the Earth Federation. The lighter shade of grey in the Universal Century sure do have a lot of uniforms, and well continuity wise I will be covering the faction from the One Year War to the end of Unicorn. From the glimpses of the Federation forces in F91 it seems that very little has changed with what they are wearing. Which makes sense now as we see certainly with the pictures I grabbed a lot of it is kind of practical. Well, in anime space soldier terms anyway. I have to say in the real world if that this stuff really echoes the early NATO Cold War era stuff. Back when it was a combination of the new gear mixed with the older 2nd World War US armed forces surplus. Both factions do this, at least on the more mass produced level once you ignore the Zeon habit of smacking mini capes and lace all over things. It does really sort of make sense now. If you have this massive government that covers both the each and certain regions of space your factories are going to be churning out a lot of simplified but modern uniforms. I like to think the reason we see no signs of post seventies Cold War era uniform development outside of equipment is more or less for cost effective reasons. Which is funny now as due to Minovsky particles loving with things surely camoflage would be something more heavily invested in.  Lace? we don't need no stinkin' lace! I have to say though, I really kind of dig the uniforms of both the space and ground officers of the forces for the Earth Federation. I really dig the old school slightly floppy peaked cap. I personally found it quite sad Bright in his entire career lost his or traded it for a space burger because we never seen him wear one. Then again, a majority of the EF officers who have worn this possibly cursed cap have perished. Maybe he knows? Also sadly, It seems that after the One Year War some of the Naval staff had to retire their white Napoleonic era looking trousers for more modern looking pants.  SLEGGAR LAW HERE, GOING TO PUNCH NERDS IN THE FACE THEN COME ONTO THEIR GIRLFRIENDS THEN PUNCH THEM IN THE FACE Also, I would really like to talk about the pilot suits themselves but I am really confused about them. There seems to be dozens of variations and I am not sure what is standard issue and what is special snowflake Gundam pilot (Amuro in both 0079 and CCA rocks his look no matter what) so I am just going to assume what Sleggar Law is wearing is more or less what the space grunts of the EF wore until after the 1 Year War. I like it but gently caress me is it ever so blue people. I like blue man but drat. But I am being side tracked once again and have a spergy nerd theory about this I'll mention later so lets move on.  I found these neat little images from a fan on a forum which more or less breaks down some of the UC uniforms in an easy to digest format now a moment. Now I am not sure if some details are utterly canon (did we ever see the White Base crew or low level utility dudes with a peaked cap) but broad details we find in most of the uniforms are there. But from what I can see with the Naval uniforms here is a very stark minimalism. This gives off a pretty much more modern professional 'we don't need know flash we have substance vibe' compared to the more decorated and imperial themed Zeon uniforms now. The jackets are also cut in a way that reminds me of the late Victorian style tunic jackets soldiers wore in the 19th century too.  Now looking at this example I sort of come to slow realization that Yazan frigging wears a cut down and customized version of what I assume are general naval pilot fatigues. Also, I loving love berets. It might be a Brit thing but drat they look good. The high wasted trousers are sort of more or less what British Commonwealth soldiers wore during the campaigns in North Africa and Asia too. I'm kind of sad to see post One Year War soldiers have adopted a shorter jacket now too, booooo. Now lets see some more 0083 stuff a moment oh god no MONSHA!  quote:
He says what we all deep down in our hearts we have all hoped for since Monsha cursed us with his presence. Anyways, those leather jackets sure are pretty bad rear end and one again are another one of many links to my theory about the early NATO/US surplus angle with the uniforms of the EF. I must say for the old school flight suit fatigues sky blue is an interesting choice. Somebody really loving loved blue in the Federation. And finally a brief look at the soldier uniform and I mean brief because outside a screen cap from the anime it is really hard to get an old school 0079 version of this. I do recall the Federation grunt helmets lean more towards a sort of Pith helmet crossed with the US M1 WW2 helmet deal which is actually kind of neat.  I don't know what I love more. The old printed media, the fact the dude is eating canned rations or an literal 1940/50's era army canteen on his hip. So yeah, the EF uniforms might not be as flashy or bright as other gear in Gundam but I can certainly why they more or less were retained for at least around a century as they are functional as hell and I personally love them a lot more. I do honestly like some elements of the uniforms changed between 0079 and Unicorn because much like real life military uniforms are always a weird changing multi headed beast. This might also explain why there is a like fifty different forms of spacesuit as during the chaos of the One Year War I can just see the EF not providing enough forcing soldiers or entire units to pool together their resources and buy their own privately or be forced to use older/captured stock. The jackets also work well as general casual wear in real life without making you look too much like a dork wearing clothing from some decades old anime. I'd seriously buy one if I had the money to spare. So yeah, the entire line of uniforms for the EF get 4 Garma Heads out of 5. It would have been a perfect score if they let Bright wear that hat. Next time we'll focus on an individual character again....I wonder who? SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 01:16
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I don't like merch, I don't own any t-shirts of the like, but the federation jacket is very cool and subtle enough to not make you look like a dork and I wouldn't mind owning one.
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Feb 8, 2016 01:40
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Jesus how many times does poor Rain get sucker punched in the stomach!
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Feb 8, 2016 02:14
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SeanBeansShako posted:Jesus how many times does poor Rain get sucker punched in the stomach! Much, much more than she deserves. 
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Feb 8, 2016 02:35
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Episode 9 of G-Gundam is a very special episode. Don't do drugs and fight in giant robot martial arts kids.
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Feb 8, 2016 02:43
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldwcWT-oWVM my favorite version of char ga kuru i really like these breakdowns of gundam uniforms
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Feb 8, 2016 03:34
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Kanos posted:The Eurasian faction is functionally powerless specifically because of the two things you mention. The Eurasian leadership was basically eradicated at JOSH-A, which leads to the Eurasian faction being so powerless and toothless that the LOGOS/Cosmos-controlled AF has no problem dropping the Destroy on the west coast of Europe and sending it on a death match to quell dissidents and ZAFT sympathizers because they know there will be no consequences. The Eurasian faction doesn't stop the Destroy, it's third parties from ZAFT and the Archangel who do. The Alliance was definitely a multifaceted organization in SEED but the one in GSD is almost 100% monolithic cartoon villain town. The closest thing to internal opposition in the Alliance on-screen that we see is Neo feeling vaguely bad about being ordered to commit war crimes. If the Eurasians were so powerless, why drop in the Destroy? It makes more sense that the Eurasians weren't as powerless as you say they are and that they could put up enough resistance to a conventional force that it would be costly for AF to pacify the area. Drop in a strategic weapon at a much smaller cost to raze and scare everyone into submission. We are never quite sure whether it worked or not, but it is safe to sat the Eurasians mostly threw their lot with ZAFT when the anti-LOGOS force was formed. Neo felt bad from his old personality leaking through, a simple enough explanation. Cagalli's development comes in 3 stages. -When we first see her, she is broken by the political process to the point she is willing to marry Yuuna. -By the time of the Battle of Crete she has regained some of her self worth but remains emotional, almost breaks down from the death of her countrymen. Tries to pull a Lacus on people who are already on her side, but failure is the only option as she doesn't understand the situation. -Lastly, Battle of ORB v2, Takes over. Shinn attacks Cagalli and people start meat shielding for her, but this time she doesn't break down. Holds off Shinn for a while but knows she is hosed. Stunned that she is still alive when saved by Kira. Nobody could stop those soldiers from beating on Yuuna if they tried considering the BS he put everyone through plus she was doing the coup over a radio, so she didn't know until she got there. She takes a swing herself when she interrogates him. She doesn't call Durandal "Bad", she says the information and the alliance against LOGOS is attractive as an individual and as a politician, before she gets to elaborate, she gets cut off. Lacus then finishes her speech. She reaffirms both her and ORB's stance of not supporting nor trusting either side. Calling Durandal "Bad" would have lead to open war on the spot, Something they wouldn't survive. They reaffirmed their neutrality and their status as a sovereign nation. Durandal no longer has any cause to attack ORB.
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Feb 8, 2016 05:59
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muike posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldwcWT-oWVM my favorite version of char ga kuru That's really good. So's the Tobe! Gundamu cover: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl_bGJQDrrQ
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Feb 8, 2016 10:03
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Alright I've never watched Zeta or ZZ and it's all this stupid thread talks about so here I go because I want the slight illusion I haven't been spoiled. Zeta Trip Report Episodes 1-5 This is Kamille and he likes to run. This is Romantic Interest 1(Fa for short) and she likes to tell Kamille not to do stupid poo poo. Also not Char is out and about doing not Char poo poo while newtype shaking hands with Kamille. This is Jerid, him and Kamille are going to be best friends and learn important life lessons. Kamille makes poor decisions despite Fa knowing better Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 11. Not Char does more not char poo poo and it seems like Kamille was the prototype for the Gundam Age protagonists minus the crippling character defects they all have, don't worry there's time Kamille. OH SON OF A BITCH KAMILLE Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 14... A Gundam falls out of the blue into the building and Kamille's first thought is time to make more bad decisions, but at least he admits it, also sup Bright. Did you just put a hole in the side of the colony not Char? This is going to be a long road of bad choices. Yep that's a hole. Yep those are newtypes. Yep they are fighting in the colony. Titan sucks and Kamille continues the bad decision journey using diplomacy this time. Bright stop him please. Sigh. Guys stop him. Yelling at the robot won't get him out guys. Well I guess he'll save the day and when he gets out Bright will have to give him tough love. KAMILLE WHAT THE gently caress JUST gently caress. Okay new plan Kamille joins Zeon 2 I guess. God dammit Bright go file proper grievance paperwork with the Federation! Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 26 Federation troops using Zakus, cool but a stupid idea against not Char and a gundam with a newtype main character plugged into it. Also air leaks are bad. Heya Bright looking good I'll count that one Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 27 . Not Char is one sexy mother fucker and everyone is cool with the kid that can start up a gundam and fly it around maybe because he likes to spill his guts on top secret poo poo. To be fair though his parents suck, look at that slap Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 28, that's how you put your wife in her place. Why would you kill the people designing your poo poo to get Kamille and the gundams back? Just blow them up. Sigh. Go ahead Kamille steal the gundam. Oh... OH.... Run like hell Jerid. Run like hell. This is going to be a trip. Emma just sit back and watch this poo poo please. Also someone teach this kid about ammo and aiming later. And not Char lets them have what they want after they kill the hostage. Time to warm up the punch counter. Brutal. Oh hey dad! And Kamille has lost it OH WAIT SICK DEAD WIFE/MOM BURN Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 29. Ahaha your wife is dead hey how about that other chick you screw that the whole ship knows about now. Oh GOD Jerid you are just asking for a beam saber through your cockpit. Emma if you were a better worse person you'd sock him. Off screen beatings don't count but good on you Emma I hope you live at the end and/or don't heel turn. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 32 Kamille is good at punching guys. SO Zeon 2 has 3 gundams now and a not Char and the newtype protagonist and his dad with loads of cool secret info. Things are looking up! Heck Kamille didn't even get punched for stealing a Gundam to do stupid things with in the first place. Kamille your dad is a dick. Better hijack a gundam again. You have my permission to shoot your dad. Okay he is shooting at you, it is now self defense please kill your dad. Jesus (not)CHAR GET OVER HERE AND DO IT. Thanks. Time to go home where we'll put our sunglasses on in a very dim room and have a talk about parent killing and being not Char. It will be alright Kamille not Char is a better dad. Next time Love Quadrangles and more Newtypes! Summing things up so far Kamille is good at Hijacking gundams, Emma is a good person, not Char is good at being Char, and the Federation is good at not supervising Titan. Fat and Useless fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 00:44
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There is a hilarious amount of needless physical assault in Zeta Gundam. I'll post my review stuff soon-ish.
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Feb 9, 2016 03:12
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Episode 6: Jerid is bad at his job and Kamille designs the Zeta because he's that cool. Fa likes Kamille but he likes Reccoa and she likes (not)Char but Emma also likes Kamille. It's amazing that the Fedies give zero shits about how Titan is running things. I like this lady constantly making GBS threads on Jerid. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 33 But hey on the bright side maybe Reccoa might be liking Kamille now. Oh hey Amuro, nice pool! Hey Reccoa didn't die! This is probably the happiest episode yet. Episode 7: Lila is too competent to be on the enemy side. Kamille admits stealing gundams is dumb but still gets praised for it. (not)Char gives critical information that Fedies are so out of whack that they can't find Amuro sitting by his pool. gently caress it everyone is a lieutenant! Titan's handing that poo poo out may as well aim for the stars Kamille. Jerid loses what is left of his masculinity and then asks the most competent person on the ship out on a date before she goes off to fly a robot around space. Screw it lets go on a field trip to a poisoned hellscape with our helmets open. Lila decides to join them, someone is getting captured. Kamille sees dead kids and starts to think about something other than stealing gundams and women. (not)Char and Lila talk about current events and she runs away. Alright time to get in a robot fight. Lila loses her cool annnnnnnnd she's dead... Well Jerid at least you have newtype host sight! Good job Kamille you killed a relatively good person! Welcome to the club. Episode 8: Kamille is being angry at (not)Char and Emma by association. Yes Kamille several people have said you are a newtype and can do newtype poo poo, get over it. OH NO (not)Char's secret might be in trouble! Start a robot fight! Once again we run out of ammo and Jerid is constantly talking to his dead girlfriend. He does seem to be fighting better though so whatever helps. (not)Char decides wearing red in public is dangerous as a normal human may not be as dumb as his crewmates so he opts for a black coat but keeps the sunglasses. WHOA WAIT HE'S ACTUALLY CHAR!? I can stop putting not in front of it now at least. Alright hamburger shops now we are talking! You know who's not getting hamburgers? Jerid. He's getting jail and a dead girlfriend. Going on a drive on the moon... Dead colony... Macdaniels... Pfffffffft hehahaha! Nothing could possibly happen in the next 4 minutes to change this tone. Like really I'm just hearing hamburgers hamburgers Gryps hamburgers shove Emma hamburgers. Oh poo poo, it got ruined by a haro. Welp. Episode 9: If a slap happens in space and no one sees or hears it does it happen? Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 34 Oh hey Kai you look significantly better than Bright and Amuro. HAMBURGERS oh wait chicken burgers... I'm sad now. Oh god it's Amuro's haro, I'm sadder now. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 35 All better. SIGH please don't start poo poo with Kamille... Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 36 Come on what was that even for? Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 37 Dude just throw the haro in the trash. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 38 That's a little much now. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 39 Good job Kamille use bad idea fu! Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 40 Keep your fists up! Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 41 Sigh. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 42 I wasn't expecting this many hits... "Violence isn't right" Folks lets sit here and absorb that statement from the person who in episode one went out of his way to punch several people, has killed in a giant death robot, and just punched the rear end in a top hat who he's telling this to. Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 43 HEY CHAR THANKS FOR NOT HAVING MY BACK IN THAT rear end KICKING AT LEAST I HAVE A HARO! Punch/Kick/Slap Count: 44 "I'm an autistic child" uhuh please shut up haro you aren't helping. That is one shinny robot! Oh boy I'm only halfway through this episode... Ugggggggh... No cool robot fight, here Kamille have an assault riffle. Oh the safety is on, loving Char. "You wasted bullets" god drat it Char. Newtype powers activate! Hey Char shits bad I'm going back. One day that haro is going to go flying into a screen and then what the hell are you gonna do? It's like driving while holding a cup of coffee in your lap. Kamille is getting better at aiming I guess? Well those two are on happy terms again. Back to the jungle! Next time apparently! Episode 10: After the last one I'm a bit drained so I'll sum this one up at the end. Many robots fighting, random mobile armor, big loving gun, captain Bright, and Fa. No one died or got hit! Fat and Useless fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 03:15
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Char. Char. Doot doot doot doot dooooooooot! I'll foget all the bad uniforms that happened to be, I'll survive while I suffer white space booties in this battlefield! never turn back never surrender and stop wearing reeeeeeeeed! Sorry, I always kind of wanted to do that. Welcome to a very special one of SeanBeanShako's Gundam Uniform Review Part 5: Char's Tailors Counter Attack! Love him, hate him or enjoy him ironically Char next to Amuro is one of the more iconic faces of both Gundam and the whole anime thing in general. Char more or less is to most Japanese nerds what Vader is to us in the west as a pop culture icon Not because of his written character (and that is a good thing now as well the dude is messed up) but for his iconic appearince. Which I am most happy to look over and sperg about. And we'll not only be covering the Red Comet area Char but also his space dictator phase as head of Neo Zeon. Nothing else. No matter how many times you do that thing with your sunglasses Quattro.  No, stop it. Go back to the eighties music video whence you came man. I only will take solid journalistic FACT about this claim. So first off, lets go back (or forward?) through time to 0079 Universal Century a moment and have a look at the headier more simple times with a conflict that makes the Great War look like two sugar high toddlers fighting over a swing. Say hello to the Red Comet!  Or if you are a EF battleship 'OH NO CHAR *EXPLODES* If you dig anime you are never really going to forget this whether you like it or not. Red is a good colour that sears itself into our brains as we develop. We associate red with danger, warning, blood, passion and vast slightly questionable political movements with mostly good aims at heart. Red looks spiffy. Just ask Cromwell or the British Army of the previous few centures (as well as the Swiss, Danish and a few other nations that used red dye in their uniforms). And well, Char really really loving likes red. The uniform design itself follows the same sort of mid to late 19th centurt style pattern and cut but along with the small-ish cape Char and in general most Zeon uniforms reminds me of something. Ah yes, I know what know. Hussars. The freaking Zeon have some weird space Hussar fetish. Don't believe me hang on a moment. Here. Forgive the quality with this old timey plate image, 19th century artists weren't known for their art skills now. See the slightly small jacket worn rakishly around the shoulders. The pelisse as it is called? part of both 19th century military and civil fashion. That is pretty much the tiny rank cape thing the Zeon all have. Also, that is a French Hussar. Hell, to stretch this theory out CCA Char reminds me a lot of the last Kaiser of Germany. They even have the same sort of weird daddy issues.  DEATH OR GLORY Basically when you think about it, Gundam Pilots really are space cavalry who ride around not on horses but in giant mobile suits in space. Well, except in one case. But yeah, Char's uniform itself must have been inspired by 18th/19th century european cavalry. It even fits his character as these guys were usually upper or middle class death or glory hedonists with political opinions and educaton all over the scale. But lets move on and look at the mans famous helmet. This helmet is obvious a space Kabuto, the top part of the armoured helmet that Samurai used in the 15th century now. I quite like the helmet itself but I am not really sure about the awkward mask piece that covers the eyes. Char really should have gone with the classic domino mask instead. It'd look a lot less silly with the helmet off schmoozing around at Zeon dinner parties plotting murder. Together they seem alright, though personally if you are flying a death machine you shouldn't really sacrifice your vision for looking cool. I imagine Amuro escaped many times because of this choice Char made. Moving on from the space utlity belt which looks pretty neat wait is that a loving hanger sword?! those things were useless in the 19th century Char. What, you hoping a battleship is going to engage you man to man in your cockpit or something? Maybe you can use to cut space wood. Also, I love the matching white leather gloves with his white boots which to be fair are more tradtional military cavalry looking things. Oh by the way, It seems even science fiction navies from other anime somehow through space and time have found and adopted the very same uniform too. The main character of The Irresponsible Captain Tylor has a naval officers uniform that looks like it was inspired by the same kind of design. White leather is a bad bad choice for footwear now even if your going to be riding a robot in space a lot. If the Zeon have a hard boner about GERMAN EFFICIENTLY they also have the same rigit fascination in keeping everything clean and tip top. Ye olde soldiers used pipeclay to polish and clean their white leather crossbelts and other accessores but I like to think in the future of 0079 they just throw everything into some sort of space microwave. Might explain why the leather is so drat clean and shiny all the time now. So yeah, that was the Char Of The Past. Now we're moving onto the CHAR OF THE FUTURE.....which would be kind of cool if Quess wasn't a thing.  Alright I imagine if you are reading this you read my thoughts about Glemy Toto's gear and you know what I said about the design general having promise? this, this right here is the promise that design had in the full glory. You know, It really is oddly ironic like most things with Char embracing and leading Neo Zeon he even adopts and keeps the Zabi era style of uniform. He makes the claim quite a few time that his Neo Zeon has nothing to do with Zabi Zeon now but here he is using no doubt the same Axis and Zeon gear he spent his youth despising. Oh Char you broken broken manchild. Now lets get back on track. It seems this uniform does not only come with a sweet real cloak now that actually works as a cloak but in some parts of CCA it even has it's own unique overcoat with it (the colour is red). I love the simple dedication of that. I also love the weird dedication of adding the weird Zeon lace insignia to the front of his brown boots. Looking closer at the uniform in general, It really does look like a more modern version of what he wore in 0079 but he's clearly thrown out the lower class grunt white leather stuff and traded it for shinies and lace. If your going to go evil and embrace the Zeon line of thinking you might as well pimp out to the max I guess. He's even adopted a late medieval arming sword now which I strongly suspect has the same Zeon pattern on the blade just above the hilt. I imagine if CCA was made after Wing instead of before it, Char would even be wearing something like Zech's helmet too. Oddly enough his collar is quite sober and he's rejected any sort of cuffs going for a more modern look with the sleeves and instead of classic wide epaulettes he's adopted the more toned down wing versions. Kind of reminds me of the Prussian and Russian attempts and reforming their uniforms in removing the weak French/German influences in the 19th century. I really really loving dig Chars look through the whole UC, yes some elements of the 0079 seem goofy to some peoples eyes now due to the art style and the helmet but you know what, they are wrong. It works for the setting. His CCA look is also quite powerful and no doubt helps with his Neo Zeon speeches and propaganda. All in all, both of these uniforms get a 5 Garma heads out of 5. The perfect score that sadly even Treize could not achieve. Red is a neat colour.  No one likes to admit to them. To the mistakes caused by their youth. SeanBeansShako fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Feb 28, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 15:17
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As a somewhat lapsed anime fan, I started watching Gundam Build Fighters and now I can't stop. About the same time I started playing Gundam Breaker 2, incidentally... Any suggestions on where to turn for my Gundam fix once I finish? I haven't seen all of MSG but I'm pretty familiar with 0079, 0080, 0083, and Char's Counterattack. I tried watching G Gundam but couldn't really get into it, and dabbled in Wing and SEED back in the day but don't have great memories of them. I'll probably check out Orphans soon but I'm looking for something that is complete and I can watch all of, especially if I can find a DVD set for cheap or something. I'm pretty curious about 00 and Unicorn due to appearances in games, but could also be convinced to check out something else like V or Z or anything really. Reconguista and AGE didn't even exist last time I paid much attention to Gundam so I don't have the first clue about them. Any ideas where to turn next? Tighran fucked around with this message at 16:59 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 16:57
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Tighran posted:Any suggestions on where to turn for my Gundam fix once I finish? Unicorn is fantastic if you're an early UC fan, despite the wet fart ending to the last episode. Other than that, you should watch Turn-A Gundam, since it's hands-down the single best Gundam show. Definitely check out Iron-Blooded Orphans even if you don't normally like currently-airing shows, because it's going to end up being the second-best Gundam show. It's on episode 17, so not far off ending. AGE is bad. Reconguista is extremely divisive but very pretty and has some kick-rear end MS designs, so it's worth at least watching the first five episodes to see if you want to keep going.
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Feb 9, 2016 17:00
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Tighran posted:As a somewhat lapsed anime fan, I started watching Gundam Build Fighters and now I can't stop. About the same time I started playing Gundam Breaker 2, incidentally... What did you like about Build Fighters? The big flaw is that Build Fighters is kind of not a great representation of the series. It's a great love letter but part of that love letter is doing things the franchise usually does. Are you looking for cool robot fights, lots of melodrama, is animation quality a big thing to you, ect, ect? If you haven't watched Z and have a tolerance for Tominoism and that era of anime give Zeta a shot. It's both influential and good despite some pacing issues. If you're looking for cool robot fights and don't mind an overly melodramatic and sometimes dumb story Unicorn is a good place to go. If you're looking for something chill and relaxing but not really representative of Gundam as a whole there's Turn-A. Reconguista is good but watch Turn-A first and see how you like it because Reco is more like Turn-A's excesses turned up to 100 and at a breakneck pace. Do not watch Age. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 9, 2016 |
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Feb 9, 2016 17:01
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