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I didn't play at launch, but I haven't had issues like that. There were some bugs they fixed with weapon swapping, though. Swapping is now a much higher-priority action, so you're less likely to accidentally cancel out of a weapon swap. They also mostly fixed the "packmaster can grab you through walls" issue, although someone did get pulled out of the level once the other day (and luckily got pulled back in by a different packmaster).
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Feb 6, 2016 21:24
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edit: double post
Gimnbo fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 6, 2016 |
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Feb 6, 2016 21:25
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I didn't play at launch either, so all I know is that when the hammer swings, nothing remains in front of me.Digirat posted:I will never understand why people take individual loot drops so goddamn seriously in this game. When you're just starting out, having such a limited selection of weapons can make things kind of tedious. Once you find some weapons you really click with, loot drops don't really matter that much anymore. Until you reach that point, I can understand the frustration.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:48
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Gimnbo posted:I didn't play at launch either, so all I know is that when the hammer swings, nothing remains in front of me. Yeah if you haven't internalized how the game's mechanics work it can be frustrating. When you're struggling to get out the gate, it seems pretty punishing to have the most incremental reward possible. Hopefully you know, you stay around and play more because it's actually fun and not because you're hung up on the ROI of 30 whole minutes of gameplay.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:50
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No lie I would smash rats even if there was no progression of any kind. I know this because I've spent the last 20 or so games at least with the same load out and do not regret any of it.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:59
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Now if you shits would stop talking about smashing rats and actually do so and jump on mumble it'd be nice 
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Feb 6, 2016 23:14
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Nalesh posted:Now if you shits would stop talking about smashing rats and actually do so and jump on mumble it'd be nice But its easier to talk about it than actually do it. I can talk about smashing things all day long, but to actually DO said smashing requires you to ACTUALLY smash. and Grim cant Smash 
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Feb 6, 2016 23:21
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When I play an ARPG, if the first hero I kill doesn't drop gear I want then I refund it immediately.Mendrian posted:No lie I would smash rats even if there was no progression of any kind. I know this because I've spent the last 20 or so games at least with the same load out and do not regret any of it. I wonder how these people would have handled left 4 dead, where there was no long term progression and you just played a campaign with your buddies and had a good time and that was it. As in, you actually played the game and that was all you cared about.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:00
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Digirat posted:When I play an ARPG, if the first hero I kill doesn't drop gear I want then I refund it immediately.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:02
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Torchlight 1 was some bizarre experiment in making a machine that manufactures boredom.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:06
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Digirat posted:I wonder how these people would have handled left 4 dead, where there was no long term progression and you just played a campaign with your buddies and had a good time and that was it. As in, you actually played the game and that was all you cared about. They probably did play l4d, and were fine because there wasn't a loot system to get frustrated at when they didn't get any decent loot, especially when the loot is the only progression in the game and if you made all the right moves to improve your chances. People are bad at probability and expectations.
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Feb 7, 2016 01:13
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Digirat posted:I wonder how these people would have handled left 4 dead, where there was no long term progression and you just played a campaign with your buddies and had a good time and that was it. As in, you actually played the game and that was all you cared about. I do have to wonder if these treadmills really do draw more people in/draw them in longer.
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Feb 7, 2016 02:05
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Treadmills create expectations merely by existing. It's the whole watched pot problem. You don't care about the loot until you don't have it. Every time you roll another white hag bane it's like an electric shock to your fun zone. This despite the game being enjoyable. Anyone who thinks you need loot to progress is playing the game wrong imho
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Feb 7, 2016 03:08
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I starting playing this, and the bright wizard is totally my poo poo. I am saving teammates captured by the hunter, killing big blobs of enemies with "Oh shot" fireballs. Sniping enemies 8 screens away. It have not played the other class, except in the tabern, but I can't see how they can compare to this.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:45
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Every class gets pretty drat amazing when used well.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:54
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Has framerate and general performance gotten better since launch? I haven't played in quite a while.
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Feb 7, 2016 03:59
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Every patch has optimization notes pretty much so it has gotten better but there's still some frame rate/frames dropping issues that are noticeable
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Feb 7, 2016 04:04
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They add optimizations almost every patch. I haven't paid attention to know whether the frame rate is noticeably better now but it's definitely not worse.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:05
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Much of this discussion has firmly planted in me the desire to play L4D2 again, so thank you all.
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Feb 7, 2016 04:19
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Dr. VooDoo posted:Every patch has optimization notes pretty much so it has gotten better but there's still some frame rate/frames dropping issues that are noticeable Alright, guess I'll be giving it another go soon
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Feb 7, 2016 04:27
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Gimnbo posted:When you're just starting out, having such a limited selection of weapons can make things kind of tedious. Yeah, if each hero started with an un-meltable selection of every white weapon so at least you could try out every single kind of weapon right away and settle on a pairing that feels right for each character, I think loot would feel a lot less painful to new players. As is, I was running Horn with bots for a while just to get certain things I liked and replace things I'd foolishly melted down. (And probably should have been running Man the Ramparts.)
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Feb 7, 2016 04:37
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Yeah, if each hero started with an un-meltable selection of every white weapon so at least you could try out every single kind of weapon right away and settle on a pairing that feels right for each character, I think loot would feel a lot less painful to new players. As is, I was running Horn with bots for a while just to get certain things I liked and replace things I'd foolishly melted down. (And probably should have been running Man the Ramparts.) i know when i started after christmas i had at least 2 or 3 options for range and melee for every character
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Feb 7, 2016 04:46
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Definitely played with a dude named That's So Skaven tonight hahaha
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Feb 7, 2016 07:28
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Gimnbo posted:When you're just starting out, having such a limited selection of weapons can make things kind of tedious. Once you find some weapons you really click with, loot drops don't really matter that much anymore. Until you reach that point, I can understand the frustration. I was pretty pissed at drops initially until I learned you get better loot at harder difficulties. My advice for progression for anyone is run normal and try to learn the maps until you get some greens. Once you have a couple of greens, start running hard mode. You want to learn how to get a feel for block consistently. You can do this at any mode but the damage at hard mode is just enough where the runs arent in too much jeopardy if your team is decent. After running hard mode a couple of times, you should have some blues and an occasional exotic which will make hard runs easier. Now you should qualify to run nightmare. In nightmare mode, you need to polish off your blocking skills, roger dodging skills and teamwork skills because it's essential to run in cataclysm mode. Then you pretty farm nightmare mode forever since cata runs are rare due to risk/rewards.
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Feb 7, 2016 08:54
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whitey delenda est posted:Definitely played with a dude named That's So Skaven tonight hahaha Wait seriously? That was my handle like 2 months ago, I changed it back to Wintertime Thrillhouse after Christmas. Somebody stole my joke.
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Feb 7, 2016 10:03
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There's a guy with 150 hours in Vermintide who's only level 30. He just routinely plays Nightmare only, fails, dies, and only occasionally gets carried to victory. He doesn't have hard cleared or act 3 on any difficulty. I think it's really cool that if that guy shows up in my game, votekick won't keep him out for more than 20 seconds.
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Feb 7, 2016 18:04
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Nehru the Damaja posted:There are people with 150 hours in Vermintide who are only level 30. They routinely play Nightmare only, fail, die, and only occasionally get carried to victory. They don't have hard cleared or act 3 on any difficulty. I think it's really cool that if these guys shows up in my game, votekick won't keep them out for more than 20 seconds. Adjusted for accuracy. Playing past 1am EST is a kind of death: the death of fun. I really don't know why people think that at level 20 with green gear and no conception of the block button that Nightmare is going to be their jam. Joining a server is absolutely Russian roulette the times I get to play lately, so I've just resorted to hosting most of the time. I've been doing a lot of Cata lately too, so getting back to the, uh, lightheartedness of Nightmare is extra frustrating when your teammates have been or are being lobotomized. On the flip side, I also joined the end of a Cata run the other night where the party literally could not die/get downed and everyone was invisible. At first I thought it was just laggy/bugged because, well, Vermintide, but when I asked what the hell happened the guys basically spilled that they were using some sort of hacks to just grind out cata with impunity. I rolled a 7, got a red, and ditched the server. Perhaps the most unsatisfying thing that's happened with this game so far.  I just need Supply & Demand and Wizard's Tower to finish up Cataclysm at this point. Any goons that are willing to join up for the most wretchedly FUN level finales, I need you! 
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Feb 7, 2016 21:04
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Syrnn posted:Adjusted for accuracy. I've been seeing a lot of people jumping in above their paygrade. I like to grind out Hard with the occasional Nightmare capstone. I've been seeing a lot of level 0's jump in on Hard. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Hard is super difficult or anything but diving in with no experience with the levels or the game mechanics or whatever (with questions like, 'Why did my maximum health drop?' and 'How do I block?') is weird and surprisingly frequent lately. I don't know why this wave of newbies are so adventurous.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:25
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Just gotta say, some starter weapons work fine in nightmare, like the starter blunderbuss, oneshots lines of rats and twoshots most specials
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Feb 7, 2016 21:34
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Mendrian posted:I've been seeing a lot of people jumping in above their paygrade. I like to grind out Hard with the occasional Nightmare capstone. I've been seeing a lot of level 0's jump in on Hard. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think Hard is super difficult or anything but diving in with no experience with the levels or the game mechanics or whatever (with questions like, 'Why did my maximum health drop?' and 'How do I block?') is weird and surprisingly frequent lately. I don't know why this wave of newbies are so adventurous. This is pretty much my experience as well. Of course there's also the infrequent adorable newbie who gets super excited about tome locations and "secret" information. also I am Real Bad at pistols-man. I always seem to miss shots while I'm moving. Ugh.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:35
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I always try to help guide the newbies who get in over their heads, since I figure I'll probably have to play with them in the future too, and I might as well try to impart some useful information so they don't suck as bad the next time I see them. Also, it's sometimes good practice to see if you can carry the team in Nightmare. Playing with bad teammates is probably the #1 thing that's caused me to really hone my blocking skills, since I know none of them will have my back. But it's easy to burn out when all your teammates are inexperienced or downright dumb.
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Feb 7, 2016 21:49
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Yeah it's definitely improved my blocking. I'm at a point where my average health item usage in Nightmare is only if health is going to be left behind or it's more efficient to self-heal to save multiple bleedouts. But it definitely only goes so far. If everyone around you faceplants during a finale, you're probably hosed no matter what. I'd like to step up to more catas but my regular partner still needs to finish nightmare clears and the quality of people who join Nightmare can still be pretty shocking. We had a guy join us on nightmare Garden who was low level enough that we're a little skeptical but whatever. Then as things go tits up we learn he's only playing elf because all his regulars are taken, he's never played the elf before in his life, and he's using all white gear.
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Feb 7, 2016 23:05
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Digirat posted:Every class gets pretty drat amazing when used well. Except for the Dwarf. His weapons are all bad or things that Kruber does better. Replacing him with Sienna fills in for a drakefire dwarf. Lunethex fucked around with this message at 23:24 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 23:16
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Because dwarves are amazing by default.
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Feb 7, 2016 23:24
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Lunethex posted:Except for the Dwarf. His weapons are all bad or things that Kruber does better. Replacing him with Sienna fills in for a drakefire dwarf. Several of his weapons are identical to kruber's so I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that kruber's versions are better, while the axe and shield is better than either of kruber's shield options. Sienna isn't a drakefire dwarf because she can't use the axe and shield which I'd argue is the most powerful melee weapon in the game, and even if you could make a case that the class is somehow overall worse then kruber even when given the same weapons, he's still amazing when used well. Comparing their weapons as closely as possible, you basically get this: Bardin | Kruber Axe and shield > Sword and shield Hammer and shield = Mace and shield Axe < Sword Hammer = Mace Greathammer = Greathammer Greataxe < Greatsword Handgun/Crossbow = Handgun Drakefires = Repeater Grudge raker > Blunderbuss You could make arguments one way or another on a few of these, but no matter what they are pretty close.
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Feb 7, 2016 23:54
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I don't know the exact stats but the speed difference on sword and shield's shield-punch is pretty amazing. Not that I think it relegates dwarf to second-class status or anything, just saying is all.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:15
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Sword and shield/axe and shield have the same charge attack speed as far as I can tell, while mace and shield/hammer and shield are equal but almost twice as slow. So both characters have a good shield and a not so good shield. If there is a difference between the speed of sword and shield/axe and shield, it's narrow enough that I haven't noticed it and the axe and shield is still fast enough to endlessly batter away hordes, which is the important feature that the slower shields can't easily do. However, the axe and shield also gives you powerful armor piercing single target damage which is a feature that no other shield has, so it's good against everything. The weapon just doesn't have any major weakness.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:20
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Digirat posted:Sword and shield/axe and shield have the same charge attack speed as far as I can tell, while mace and shield/hammer and shield are equal but almost twice as slow. So both characters have a good shield and a not so good shield. I don't have numbers at hand so it might be as simple as a feeling or maybe even just the difference in animation makes it clearer to me that I can swing again sooner. It's entirely possible they have the same charged attack speeds and for one reason or another I'm hitting that speed with the sword and shield but not axe and shield. That said, I'm absolutely with you that the axe and shield is boss as gently caress.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:26
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LuciferMorningstar posted:I do have to wonder if these treadmills really do draw more people in/draw them in longer. Well, l4d2 does have drastically more players than this game does, so I guess not. But then, l4d2 also has unlimited content via the workshop and true dedicated servers, which will always support a game for much longer than any loot treadmill. It would be easier to ignore this particular loot treadmill if the differently-colored weapons didn't have straight-up better base stats, which still seems like a strange decision.
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Feb 8, 2016 00:32
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Digirat posted:Sword and shield/axe and shield have the same charge attack speed as far as I can tell, while mace and shield/hammer and shield are equal but almost twice as slow. So both characters have a good shield and a not so good shield. The other feature of the mace/hammer and shield combos is that they natively have higher knockback listed than the sword/axe and shield. I don't know whether this necessarily helps, since the charge attack seems to suffice, but I should think that it would make a difference for the stagger from pushes and basic LMB attacks. For a long time I was using the mace and shield on Kruber precisely because of this stat, but the speed you can charge attack with sword/axe and shield is absolutely a necessary leg up for using it in Cataclysm. Shame on all of you for not noting Bardin's clearly superior singing abilities and height that leaves firing lanes open for wizards and elves and hearts swelling with the overture to Hrothi and Balgor at Karaz-a-Karak (barump ba badababump!) while defending choke points.  But I still prefer Kruber because of his character and fancy hats.Edit: Nehru the Damaja posted:or maybe even just the difference in animation makes it clearer to me that I can swing again sooner. I have this problem actually with the 2h sword for Kruber. The animations for regular and charged attacks look so god drat alike that I really have a hard time getting a rhythm going. I 'll get three charged swings back to back before the whole thing falls to pieces. Syrnn fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Feb 8, 2016 |
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Feb 8, 2016 00:40
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