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monster on a stick posted:Civ 5 got even more hate. "One unit per tile OMG" but then it wasn't very good until the expansions. Is Civ:BE any good yet? I still hate one unit per tile and play Civ 4 with mods because of it, but I don't go in the Civ 5 thread and post about how much better the game would be if it were literally EU 4.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:53
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Space Hamlet posted:This is the most obnoxious armchair game designer stuff I've seen in ages, dude! I'm sorry XCOM 2 isn't the totally different game you wanna play, maybe that game would be totally sweet, but all you're proving by harping on it is that you're a dork When XCOM EU was brand new people were defending its systems. Now you're all talking about how that game's combat was garbage, but expecting this one to be different, despite the same thing playing out with every game ever made in the genre. Of course optimal play can pretty much always be found in a strategy game, but there's no denying these type of games have a serious problem where everyone figures out exactly how to play VERY quickly, versus games like Chess where it is as a practical matter impossible for a human to play optimally and thus there are loads of interesting decisions to make. The same poo poo will happen with this game, like it does with every game that tries to ignore these problems. Denial certainly isn't going to fix it, and I think it's way more dorky than talking about how things could change in a way people might ultimately enjoy more.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:53
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Shaman Ooglaboogla posted:Rangers are so loving useless they border on being a liability. They exist so they can get mind controlled and kill your sharpshooter (a useful class). 
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Feb 7, 2016 06:55
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K8.0 posted:Chess Chess would be much cooler if everyone told all their pieces where to move in real time, and then it would pause and you'd update where you want all your pieces to move.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:55
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I can't stop laughing at how much the Skyranger looks like a lovely goonmeet in this screenshot. Lowtax is king-shitkicker in my playthrough right now, hasn't missed a shot, is blowing bitches up left and right, and was my first Sergeant. 
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Feb 7, 2016 06:55
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Has anyone beaten this game? Because... because I don't think you can win. I don't think there's any way to win at all. I think XCOM just wants to draw out our suffering. Seriously the last video game that made me feel like this was This War Of Mine and that's not a comparison I ever thought I'd make.
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Feb 7, 2016 06:57
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Yes, I just beat it on my first campaign with no reloads. [/brag] edit: 3 of those deaths were in the process of getting the "beat a mission with 6 rookies post June" achievement. Taratang fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 06:59
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"You see, there are fundamental design issues with this sort of game, and Firaxis, instead of fixing them, are simply applying a band aid. Futhermore..."
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Feb 7, 2016 07:00
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CapnAndy posted:Has anyone beaten this game? Because... because I don't think you can win. I don't think there's any way to win at all. I think XCOM just wants to draw out our suffering. I feel like I'm actually getting a good handle on it. I've expanded from Africa into both Europe and North America, I've got another comms room under construction so I can grab all three continent bonuses and expand into South America, and I've got not one but two Blacksites that I can blow up when the clock gets too far. I'm up to plasma weapons and loving finally got my loving Predator armor jesus (gently caress ADVENT Troopers). Power armor is my next research priority, and I'm up to three colonels (Specialist, Grenadier, Sharpshooter). Just fought the first Andromedon, but nothing is giving me much trouble except for moments of pants-making GBS threads anxiety whenever a new thing shows up and then dies before shooting because I've got grenades for days, bitches. EDIT: I'm late enough in the game that I'm kinda disappointed I didn't just skip Predator armor for power armor totally on accident because of those corpse requirements.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:01
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What the gently caress is with enemies on terror missions triggering from halfway across the map when they have no possible way of seeing you?
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Feb 7, 2016 07:02
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Taratang posted:Yes, I just beat it on my first campaign with no reloads. [/brag] Without spoiling where the plot goes/what actually happens, I'd like to know if the game ends with a definitive "Earth belongs to us again, gently caress you". As I said, don't want to hear the hows/whys/what happens. Just if that does. Because man, am I loving sick of games set in fights like this, that end with "Oh yeah, you blew up their thingee, but they are still here for the next game!"
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Feb 7, 2016 07:03
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K8.0 posted:If someone made a well designed game based on this kind of system the debate would simply vanish because it's so much more fun once you see it in action and understand it, it is very different in practice from BG. But to make it fun you would also need to write real-time AI for the other side and that is where you will be hosed seven ways from sunday. Making a "smart" real-time AI is far more difficult than a turn-based one. There are various games that emphasize the unit strategy part of the RTS more than the economics + micro part that the "classic" C&C/Blizzard decended RTS. (ex. Relic's DoW2 or CoH, Wargame Airland Battle) And they all kinda suck to play in anything except heavily scripted SP campaigns or multiplayer. The AI just can't compete. AI can barely compete in Starcraft and that's been worked on for a decade and focuses on the easier to optimize economic macro. Sure in the world of imagination your game idea sounds great, but when it comes to actually making it there are real barriers in the way.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:04
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Arbite posted:Oh hey, Bradford's back. He misses his sweater. 
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Feb 7, 2016 07:04
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this game was designed by masochists, for masochists i love it
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Feb 7, 2016 07:04
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Internet Kraken posted:What the gently caress is with enemies on terror missions triggering from halfway across the map when they have no possible way of seeing you? Faceless auto trigger when you kill every other enemy on the map. If it's not faceless, than I have no clue. VV Cause reality is obsolete. LibbyM fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:04
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K8.0 posted:When XCOM EU was brand new people were defending its systems. Now you're all talking about how that game's combat was garbage, but expecting this one to be different, despite the same thing playing out with every game ever made in the genre. Of course optimal play can pretty much always be found in a strategy game, but there's no denying these type of games have a serious problem where everyone figures out exactly how to play VERY quickly, versus games like Chess where it is as a practical matter impossible for a human to play optimally and thus there are loads of interesting decisions to make. The same poo poo will happen with this game, like it does with every game that tries to ignore these problems. Denial certainly isn't going to fix it, and I think it's way more dorky than talking about how things could change in a way people might ultimately enjoy more. No one besides you is calling it garbage though. Some don't like various balance decisions but there is no game style immune to that. Why you are thing to rewrite reality is beyond me.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:05
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Rookersh posted:Without spoiling where the plot goes/what actually happens, I'd like to know if the game ends with a definitive "Earth belongs to us again, gently caress you". Non-specific spoiler about post-game story direction: There is very obvious hint in the final cinematic about XCOM 3 and/or an expansion will be about. The fight is not over.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:06
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LibbyM posted:Faceless auto trigger when you kill every other enemy on the map. If it's not faceless, than I have no clue. Its a muton and pals. The same loving thing happened to me in my last campaign; enemy muton randomly sees me at the end of my turn, get a scatter and movement on his turn. I'm not making any movement actions or doing anything else that would change LOS. Its like the muton can smell my fear.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:08
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Found an 'Advanced Repeater' that has a 10% chance of instantly killing the target  What weapon should I put this on? Is double tap/rapid fire still in the game?
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Feb 7, 2016 07:09
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edit: nevermind
Taratang fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:10
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Away all Goats posted:Found an 'Advanced Repeater' that has a 10% chance of instantly killing the target I put mine on my Specialist's Rifle with a Superior Scope, Tracer Rounds, and Guardian overwatch. I've seen Hair Trigger proc on overwatch shots (  ), so even though it hasn't happened yet I'm sure it's just a matter of time before I overwatch kill some Sectopod from full health.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:11
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K8.0 posted:When XCOM EU was brand new people were defending its systems. Now you're all talking about how that game's combat was garbage, but expecting this one to be different, despite the same thing playing out with every game ever made in the genre. Of course optimal play can pretty much always be found in a strategy game, but there's no denying these type of games have a serious problem where everyone figures out exactly how to play VERY quickly, versus games like Chess where it is as a practical matter impossible for a human to play optimally and thus there are loads of interesting decisions to make. The same poo poo will happen with this game, like it does with every game that tries to ignore these problems. Denial certainly isn't going to fix it, and I think it's way more dorky than talking about how things could change in a way people might ultimately enjoy more. EU's tactical combat was and remains excellent. But it was a problem that people mostly solved, and xcom 2 breaks some of those solutions. that makes it more interesting at least. Talk to me again in 3 years to get my opinion on which is better. also what you are saying with the chess analogy is "I think I can design a game that's better playing and less solvable than chess. and plays in real time"  go ahead dude
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Feb 7, 2016 07:13
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K8.0 posted:You cannot ultimately fix it. You have every right to not like turnbased games if they don't please you, but you don't need to try rationalize this with "yeah see it's an inherently inferior system because fghfdsdgfds." The UFO: After___ games have that kind of pausable real time system, and it's fun enough in its own right; I've played Aftershock quite a bit and enjoyed it a lot. It's just a different system, there's nothing inherently superior about it. See, this is why I don't even mind the long load times all that much. The skyranger view reminds me of that awkward situation where someone in a group is pointing a camera at the rest of the group and nobody knows if they should pose for a group photo or just act all natural and the cameraperson just faffs about while everyone keeps shifting uncomfortably and, for some reason I find it goddamn hilarious. Unrelated, I was running low on Specialists so I was delighted to find a Specialist Major for hire. So, welcome to XCOM, uh....  ...Emily? Nordick fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:13
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Just wanna lol at the guy saying BG isn't a turn based game when it absolutely is. DnD is a loving turn based game lol.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:14
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CharlestheHammer posted:No one besides you is calling it garbage though. Some don't like various balance decisions but there is no game style immune to that. When EU came out I was a bit of a pain in the rear end about it - the thing that got stuck in my craw was that the enemy spawns were nonrandom, so you could get a lot done by memorizing them and chucking grenades into the fog of war where you knew that pack of sectoids would be. But that was just me engaging with the game in bad faith! Systems of rules are inherently entropic and if you spend too long with 'em you'll solve 'em and the game will be essentially depleted unless you locate some artistic value in it or whatever. It's really profound, this goony habit of believing that people who seem to enjoy the thing you have some hangup about are just deluding themselves, or too stupid to see it - in reality, chances are everyone has their very own pet issue with the thing. You can find dozens of posts on the internet for any game about how someone's found THE REAL PROBLEM with it and you'll read about a completely different problem in each one. This fella is a really special case, though. He's got some valid reasons for not digging turn based games, but that ain't enough, he needs to convince us all that he's outsmarted the past few decades of game design! If only he could make us seeeeee Space Hamlet fucked around with this message at 07:21 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:18
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In addition the Denmark mod I posted earlier, I've now also done Iceland and Finland. The flags aren't the best looking, but I'll take a look at that after I've had some sleep. I know there was someone asking for Finland here the other day. There is another Finland mod, but that replaces Sweden. These all add additional countries.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:18
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I'm sure someone's done a better one but:
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Feb 7, 2016 07:22
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Nordick posted:So, welcome to XCOM, uh.... his name was Emil but they typoed his name on the birth cert and now it's Emily and he's too proud to correct it
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Feb 7, 2016 07:23
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K8.0 posted:When XCOM EU was brand new people were defending its systems. Now you're all talking about how that game's combat was garbage, but expecting this one to be different, despite the same thing playing out with every game ever made in the genre. Of course optimal play can pretty much always be found in a strategy game, but there's no denying these type of games have a serious problem where everyone figures out exactly how to play VERY quickly, versus games like Chess where it is as a practical matter impossible for a human to play optimally and thus there are loads of interesting decisions to make. The same poo poo will happen with this game, like it does with every game that tries to ignore these problems. Denial certainly isn't going to fix it, and I think it's way more dorky than talking about how things could change in a way people might ultimately enjoy more. I still don't understand why you keep saying everything is a "bandaid". Game development is 99% bandaids and trying to reinvent the wheel is going to fall flat on its face far, far more often than taking a concept people like and doing it well.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:27
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Has anyone else encountered the bug where the game crashes on launch and destroys your hopes and dreams or is it just me?
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Feb 7, 2016 07:27
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so who's working on the Shut Up Bradford, I Know mod? I need it real bad
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Feb 7, 2016 07:28
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I'm really Not Good at managing the Doom Clock. Does running the blacksite mission reduce it substantially? I don't want to run it until I at least get some armor but at this point it's either do something right now or mod the files so there's more pips to work with.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:28
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aegof posted:so who's working on the Shut Up Bradford, I Know mod? WE'RE LOSING CIVILIANS LEFT AND RIGHT COMMANDER ITS TURNING INTO A MASSACRE DOWN THERE
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Feb 7, 2016 07:29
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I'd like to still have all of bradford's talking for flavour, but have it not take away your controls or move the camera.
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Feb 7, 2016 07:29
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I bet there's some rear end in a top hat end game monster that can wreck my gremlins just for fun 
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Feb 7, 2016 07:32
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:I'm really Not Good at managing the Doom Clock. Does running the blacksite mission reduce it substantially? I don't want to run it until I at least get some armor but at this point it's either do something right now or mod the files so there's more pips to work with. The Blacksite story mission will drop it by 2 or 3 pips and put a delay on it increasing again for a bit. Advent facilities you discover on the map will drop it by a couple of pips as well. The best way to get the most out of your time is to let the bar hit full and let the doom clock start counting down, then hit a story or facility mission once the clock is at 2 or 3 days left. Not only will succeeding at the mission turn off the doom clock, it will also still set the avatar project back by several pips. You can basically create time like this with the caveat that obviously if you fail your last minute mission you lose the campaign. Kanos fucked around with this message at 07:35 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:32
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I'm sure this is old news, but I just got flavor speech from Bradford that they're picking up a transmission from "some clown named Van Doorn." haha
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Feb 7, 2016 07:36
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Retaliation missions can go gently caress themselves. One civilian getting killed a turn is stupid and I just finished one where the initial run was a hurricane of poo poo - not much you can do against a berserker, a MEC, several advanced troopers and sectoids, a shield guy and that teleporting enemy. After the first major assault the game's difficulty spike goes through the loving stratosphere. I don't remember the first game ramping up this quickly.
Jimbot fucked around with this message at 07:38 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:36
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Are we posting victory images? If so, Don't worry, I got the 500 Aliens kills, It just doesn't count the stuff in the final mission? That one death is from some mind control weirdness, Game counted a dominated something as one of my own troops. I mean, still got the no deaths achievement. ssmagus fucked around with this message at 07:45 on Feb 7, 2016 |
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Feb 7, 2016 07:40
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Kanos posted:The Blacksite story mission will drop it by 2 or 3 pips and put a delay on it increasing again for a bit. Advent facilities you discover on the map will drop it by a couple of pips as well. I'm pretty sure its only one pip on everything not Legendary, and 2 pips on legendary. At least I only got one pip from it and skulljacking a captain. Also destroying facilities is only 1 pip. (I mean I've modded my game, (  ) but that was to make those values go UP not down.)
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Feb 7, 2016 07:57
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