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starkebn
May 18, 2004

"Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

asio posted:

so get a new better job? Newstart doesn't cover a mortgage either.

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Halo14
Sep 11, 2001
We need a sort of Super-Basic-Income. How will Kate Moloney pay off her crippling debts otherwise?

asio
Nov 29, 2008

"Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

Sorry, yes, bad post. Actual solution: nationalise all mortgages so that in financial hardship you can still keep your home.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

And Newstart wouldn't be very useful either, even if they were eligible for it. Would a negative income tax really be that much more work than the current tax system?

starkebn
May 18, 2004

"Oooh, got a little too serious. You okay there, little buddy?"

asio posted:

Sorry, yes, bad post. Actual solution: nationalise all mortgages so that in financial hardship you can still keep your home.

wasn't saying it was a bad post, just saw an opportunity

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Ah yes, that negative income tax will help me pay the bills after I lose my job.

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

bowmore posted:

Wouldn't cost of living just rise?

I guess it would if the money was given out equally to everyone but you might be able to get around that by re-jigging the tax structure so that above a certain point you start paying an additional levy which effectively takes back the UBI money you received. The amount could be calculated weekly/fortnightly based on how much employment income you have bought in. Wouldn't need any addition bureaucracy because it would just be an automatic calculation.

Failing that, the government could just step in and set prices for everything to stop the cost of living from going up :ussr:

Birb Katter
Sep 18, 2010

BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

100 Aussie Comedians posted:

Dear Rich White Men Who Are In Charge Of Things,
We the undersigned are professional dickheads. Between us, we have decades of experience in getting away with making people laugh and acting like it’s a respectable living. We say swears and we talk about genitals and farts and Facebook and first world problems and we wear silly costumes and shout our opinions at drunken hecklers in pubs and bars and tents across this great nation.
We ain’t no high-falutin’ city lawyers. We don’t know heaps about the constitution or the intricate details of the Migration Act or international conventions on human rights.
Indeed, many of us often fail to use the English words good and stuff.
But we know when something isn’t funny. At one time or another we’ve all delivered a line that we think is SOLID GOLD, only to be met with deafening silence. This is known as “bombing” or “comic death”. It is the worst possible experience for a comedian. Bombing elicits a sudden and powerful sensation of overwhelming dread and shame. It immediately compels you to reconsider all of your life choices and makes you want to go home and curl up into a little ball and nuzzle a bottle of wine and cry.
To us, the idea of deporting vulnerable people seeking asylum to Nauru to face the very things they sought protection from is a really, really bad joke. Like, no good. At all. We understand that the recent decision by the High Court technically makes this sort of thing legal, but that doesn’t mean it’s worth pursuing. Other things that are legal include smoking and wearing Crocs.
Come on, bros: we’re talking about 37 babies here. You politicians are supposed to kiss babies, not deport them.
As people who wear our hearts on our sleeve and who are often cynical about most things, we’re appealing to your decency and your humanity and asking you to let these people remain in Australia. Here in the community they can receive the support they need, begin to rebuild their lives and hey, maybe even come on down to a comedy show to laugh their cares away.
Yes, it is a super sticky area of public policy. But even we professional dickheads can see this isn’t the way to go about it.
Trust us, Prime Minister Turnbull and Minister Dutton – there’s nothing funny about this shemozzle.
Please get to work on some new material ASAP.
We say: #LetThemStay.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

That sounds exactly like the kind of thing Adam Hills would write.

Birb Katter
Sep 18, 2010

BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

open24hours posted:

That sounds exactly like the kind of thing Adam Hills would write.

Yeah, when I heard about the letter he was the first guy I thought of being involved.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

I was talking about the style rather than the content. I agree with most of the things he says on his show but he really does come across as preachy.

MonoAus
Nov 5, 2012

On a related note; I saw Toby Halligan as part of the Fringe festival last week and if you like hearing jokes about how poo poo Tony Abbott is and onion eating (as I know most of you do) he was pretty good! I don't think he's doing any more shows in Perth at the moment but you can probably catch him elsewhere.

birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

i;m gay
So apparently I can deliver all the glorious lefty things I want (no high speed rail, that's dumb) without even touching the GST or super AND keeping negative gearing AND have 40bn net revenue.

Sign me the gently caress up.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

Scott Morrison was upset with the Guardians budget balancing thing because there was no kill the poor option.

MysticalMachineGun
Apr 5, 2005

Birdstrike posted:

So apparently I can deliver all the glorious lefty things I want (no high speed rail, that's dumb) without even touching the GST or super AND keeping negative gearing AND have 40bn net revenue.

Sign me the gently caress up.

Yeah, I played around with it as well and it just can't be that easy. Can it?

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010

When your main aim is shifting the burden of tax, ie cutting corporate tax and personal income tax and raising and broadening the gst, you end up 5 B in the red.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

MysticalMachineGun posted:

Yeah, I played around with it as well and it just can't be that easy. Can it?

Sure it is, but nobody wants to make their rich backers mad.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/australians-to-bypass-car-dealers-and-import-directly-from-japan-and-uk

Gonna get me the sickest drift weapon.

[edit: I reed gud. Bastards still protecting the used car industry.]

open24hours fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Feb 10, 2016

birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

i;m gay

MysticalMachineGun posted:

Yeah, I played around with it as well and it just can't be that easy. Can it?

Yeah it's not.

Firstly, I'm not sold that abolishing the CGT discount holus bolus is workable. Remember, the discount was brought in to replace indexation, which accounted for a measure of inflation eating into your gain if you held the asset for a long period of time. Applying the discount is a lot easier to work out, but in most cases I've seen indexation actually saved more tax.

Philosophically I can't stand income from capital gains being taxed concessionally as compared to income from other sources (eg labour). However, I could wear a CGT discount of say 20% for individuals in lieu of indexation.

Secondly, making any substantial reduction in the CGT discount in one go would kill housing markets overnight. This is reason enough for many of us itt to do it, but crashing overnight would be bad for the economy. That's why I would propose a stepped reduction over 5-10 years to the level you want to achieve. The downside is that you don't bring in that big pile of tax money next year, but on the flip side you're less likely to have a housing industry/wider economy crash.

Laserface
Dec 24, 2004

open24hours posted:

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/australians-to-bypass-car-dealers-and-import-directly-from-japan-and-uk

Gonna get me the sickest drift weapon.

[edit: I reed gud. Bastards still protecting the used car industry.]


The used imports market is full of local stock at dirt cheap prices as it is.

And odo wind backs could be abused more now - buy a lightly used vehicle, wind back to under 500kms and sell as near new (according the article). Though 80 bucks to check the dereg papers is nothing on a few thousand dollars+

The overall condition of the cars should improve though as you're less likely to get R grade stuff being sold as "4.5A"

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

They're still pretty expensive. A stock Chaser old enough to drive itself is well over $10k.

Skellybones
May 31, 2011




Fun Shoe

asio posted:

Sorry, yes, bad post. Actual solution: nationalise all mortgages so that in financial hardship you can still keep your home.

Nationalise all houses and jobs. Every day you will be assigned a new house, job, and family according to shifting demographics. Just like in Sim City.

Laserface
Dec 24, 2004

Niche vehicles. My 180sx could be sold for as much as I bought it for 8 years ago.

This new law is likely to just make expensive cars that would be out of reach for the vast number of people slightly cheaper for the upper class to buy (eg luxury and super cars).

tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



Scott Ludlam salty as gently caress

Birb Katter
Sep 18, 2010

BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE
SCREAMING LLAMA,

GUESS WHAT, IT LOOKS LIKE THE WELFARE CHEATS AREN'T THE ONES ON WELFARE


Someone who doesn't need to worry about getting membership so the AEC reinstates their legitimacy posted:

Gambling addict sentenced for embezzling almost $180,000 from government disability department

A Sydney woman who embezzled almost $180,000 from a government service for people with disabilities has been sentenced to 18 months home detention.

Caroline Portolesi, 38, was the Maroubra branch manager of the NSW Department of Family and Community Services (FACS).

Her role was to organise and pay for services such as cleaning and home care for people with disabilities.

Portolesi used a stolen identity to set up a fraudulent business, Esay Cleaning Services. She then used that business to invoice FACS for work that was never actually done.

In December 2015, Portolesi pleaded guilty to obtaining financial advantage by deception.

Portolesi told police she stole from her employer because she had a gambling addiction.

In deciding against imprisonment in a corrections facility, Judge Stapelton accepted submissions relating to Portolesi's gambling addictions and complex mental health issues.

The Department of Family and Community Services said they were "undertaking a forensic review" of their systems.

A quadriplegic client of Portolesi, Peter Zipfinger said: "I think it is one of the lowest acts there is, to be stealing yours and my money from a sector that needs it most."

Who could have guessed that anecdotes were not actually data?????

--

And now we return to our regular Pavel

:nws: http://i.imgur.com/5bydkEs.jpg :nws:

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai
Not sure how a corrupt embezzler has any bearing whatsoever on ScreamingLlama's ideas on welfare fraud.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Amethyst posted:

Not sure how a corrupt embezzler has any bearing whatsoever on ScreamingLlama's ideas on welfare fraud.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it points toward the majority of fraud (by dollar value) is not being committed by people on welfare especially when compared to white collar crime.

PaletteSwappedNinja
Jun 3, 2008

One Nation, Under God.

Birb Katter
Sep 18, 2010

BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

Amethyst posted:

Not sure how a corrupt embezzler has any bearing whatsoever on ScreamingLlama's ideas on welfare fraud.

Not sure how someone committing welfare fraud has any bearing whatsoever on Llamas ideas on welfare fraud? Good job :golfclap:

hooman posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it points toward the majority of fraud (by dollar value) is not being committed by people on welfare especially when compared to white collar crime.

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

hooman posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it points toward the majority of fraud (by dollar value) is not being committed by people on welfare especially when compared to white collar crime.

Ok, but they are entirely unrelated crimes.

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Birb Katter posted:

Not sure how someone committing welfare fraud has any bearing whatsoever on Llamas ideas on welfare fraud? Good job :golfclap:

Embezzlement is not welfare fraud, dummy.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Amethyst posted:

Ok, but they are entirely unrelated crimes.

They are both defrauding the government of money...

How many mates deals are there with property investors, with preferred contractors, with developments, grants, land approvals do you think are entirely above board?

How many private investigators is the government hiring to track these down? All of it is fraud committed against the Australian Government.

EDIT: ^^ I'm pretty sure embezzlement is a type of fraud.

hooman fucked around with this message at 06:08 on Feb 10, 2016

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

hooman posted:

They are both defrauding the government of money...

How many mates deals are there with property investors, with preferred contractors, with developments, grants, land approvals do you think are entirely above board?

How many private investigators is the government hiring to track these down? All of it is fraud committed against the Australian Government.

Well, they were caught, presumably by someone hired to investigate.

Anyway, this is a really stupid attempt at attacking ScreamingLlama with irrelevancies. An employee stealing from their employer is a separate issue from welfare recipients making fraudulent claims.

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

hooman posted:

EDIT: ^^ I'm pretty sure embezzlement is a type of fraud.

Oh wowee they feature the same word in them, that means they are exactly the same. Good reasoning as usual in the Auspol symposium.

Zenithe
Feb 25, 2013

Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.

tithin posted:

Scott Ludlam salty as gently caress

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAhdtplkwUk&feature=youtu.be

:perfect:

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Except the thing SL was specifically worried about was that there was less money available to welfare recipients like him, thanks to welfare cheats.

We are pointing out something that is an even bigger problem, that threatens his pool of welfare money even more, and thus should get him even more outraged.

Amoeba102
Jan 22, 2010


BINGO!

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai

Bifauxnen posted:

Except the thing SL was specifically worried about was that there was less money available to welfare recipients like him, thanks to welfare cheats.

We are pointing out something that is an even bigger problem, that threatens his pool of welfare money even more, and thus should get him even more outraged.

By posting a story about someone getting caught? It sounds like that problem is being handled by existing enforcement mechanisms. SL is saying this isn't the case with the separate problem they're talking about

Amethyst
Mar 28, 2004

I CANNOT HELP BUT MAKE THE DCSS THREAD A FETID SWAMP OF UNFUN POSTING
plz notice me trunk-senpai
Gambling addicts get into a hole and embezzle from their employer all the time. it is not a problem specific to the welfare system, or even to the public sector in general. Bringing up a typical case of embezzlement and saying "SEE! You're wrong about this completely separate issue" is just weak.

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Periphery
Jul 27, 2003
...

gay picnic defence posted:

I guess it would if the money was given out equally to everyone but you might be able to get around that by re-jigging the tax structure so that above a certain point you start paying an additional levy which effectively takes back the UBI money you received. The amount could be calculated weekly/fortnightly based on how much employment income you have bought in. Wouldn't need any addition bureaucracy because it would just be an automatic calculation.

Failing that, the government could just step in and set prices for everything to stop the cost of living from going up :ussr:

Could just alter the income tax brackets to so that the lower end keeps all their UBI while the top ones pay more. Then use the previous years tax return to calculate everyone's monthly UBI payment with the current years income tax paying or collecting any imbalances? That's how I kinda figured it could work, but I'm just spitballing here.

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