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TheKingofSprings posted:Tron's not dying because Eugene gets banned. Thats what people said right after Twin was banned and it wasn't true then or now. Tron is still good but it's not oppressive and it doesn't need to be nurffed with a ban. suicidesteve posted:You can tell who plays Tron by which card they think is going to be banned from Eldrazi and also by how wrong they are about how fair/oppressive Tron is. I'm playing the Eldrazi deck till it gets banned because "LOL broken" but there is a reason eye was 5 bucks before this deck was a thing. It's not broken in tron.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:50
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Speaking as a non tron player, how does the deck get completely hosed by losing Eye? From lists I'm reading, it doesn't appear to be anything remotely approaching a lynchpin for the deck, and more like a 'nice to have' for niche cases and game states.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:53
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mcmagic posted:Thats what people said right after Twin was banned and it wasn't true then or now. Tron is still good but it's not oppressive and it doesn't need to be nurffed with a ban. Your colorless tears are delicious. No one cares about the impact of banning Eye on Tron.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:54
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Speaking as a non tron player, how does the deck get completely hosed by losing Eye? From lists I'm reading, it doesn't appear to be anything remotely approaching a lynchpin for the deck, and more like a 'nice to have' for niche cases and game states. Eye is very important in any kind of grindy matchup since it lets you play with less threats and more tutors and it itself can be tutored for with 12 of your tutors on a board stall. It's one of the best cards in the deck.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:55
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Modern will never be a fair format or a level playing field no matter how they govern it. Once again you are a huge idiot about bannings.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:56
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mcmagic posted:Eye is very important in any kind of grindy matchup since it lets you play with less threats and more tutors and it itself can be tutored for with 12 of your tutors on a board stall. It's one of the best cards in the deck. Well Modern being devoid of any interaction now means there are no more grindy matchups so there you go
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Feb 10, 2016 20:57
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mcmagic posted:I'm playing the Eldrazi deck till it gets banned because "LOL broken" but there is a reason eye was 5 bucks before this deck was a thing. It's not broken in tron. I'm sure that's why and not because it was a 1-of in one deck. Remind me how much Karn costs. MiddleEastBeast posted:Speaking as a non tron player, how does the deck get completely hosed by losing Eye? From lists I'm reading, it doesn't appear to be anything remotely approaching a lynchpin for the deck, and more like a 'nice to have' for niche cases and game states. It loses the ability to tutor for a game winning creature every turn starting in turn 4. Tragic, I know.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:57
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Well Modern being devoid of any interaction now means there are no more grindy matchups so there you go The level of interaction in modern has always vacillated. That won't change.
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Feb 10, 2016 20:59
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Cactrot posted:Once again you are a huge idiot about bannings. Except, what I said before it exactly what happened w/here. Powerful decks were banned and something new took it's spot. If you ban Eldrazi something will take it's spot. Rise/repeat
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Feb 10, 2016 21:00
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Except, what I said before it exactly what happened w/here. This bit quote:Either allow it all or gently caress the format. Is what makes you an idiot.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:01
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Except, what I said before it exactly what happened w/here. IDK why it's so hard for people to see the difference between "powerful decks" and the way the fast mana makes these eldrazi decks something different than that.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:02
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Except, what I said before it exactly what happened w/here. The eldrazi deck was happening no matter if the ban happened or not. I haven't seen the matchups played so I don't have a clue how good their matchup was against eldrazi anyway.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:03
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Sickening posted:The eldrazi deck was happening no matter if the ban happened or not. I haven't seen the matchups played so I don't have a clue how good their matchup was against eldrazi anyway. You can see Bloom V Eldrazi at least here http://www.channelfireball.com/videos/what-if-modern-amulet-bloom-vs-eldrazi-aggro-sams-side/
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Feb 10, 2016 21:05
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Finally getting around to typing this up. Deck: G/R Tron //dudes 3 Wurmcoil Engine 2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger 1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn //spells 4 Ancient Stirrings 4 Expedition Map 4 Chromatic Sphere 4 Chromatic Star 3 Pyroclasm 1 Kozilek's Return 4 Sylvan Scrying 3 Oblivion Stone 4 Karn Liberated 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon 2 Warping Wail //lands 4 Urza's Mine 4 Urza's Power Plant 4 Urza's Tower 4 Grove of the Burnwillows 1 Eye of Ugin 1 Snow-Covered Forest 2 Ghost Quarter //Sideboard 3 Nature's Claim 1 Life from the Loam 1 Crumble to Dust 1 Pithing Needle 2 Ancient Grudge 2 Spellskite 2 Thragtusk 1 Warping Wail 2 Relic of Progenitus  Display deck statisticsThis is what I took to SCG regionals Chicago. I went 7-2, and finished in 29th place out of 400. Sideboard is a little bit of a mess as I had barely anytime to test anything. R1 - 2-0 vs. Jeskai Prowess. He had swift spears and storm chaser mages and some burn spells, and a slow keep game 1 and I killed two lands with Ulamog, and then he scooped to the second Ulamog as he didn't have a second path. Game 2 he got me down to 1 but I claimed my own chromatic star to go up to 5 and Ulamog finished it off. R2 - 2-0 vs. Grixis Control(??) Not exactly sure what he was running, but game 1 he bolted me and snapcaster bolted me and attack once then Ulamog did his thing. He had main deck spreading seas and at least one blood moon, but I had plenty of mana to do my thing. Warping wail countered a thoughtsieze after he remanded Ulamog (  ) Game 2 was similar, but I was able to ride a wurmcoil to victory after EOT exiling a master of waves with Warping Wail.R3 - 1-2 vs. Naya Burn. Game 1 was a pretty typical burn vs. tron game 1. I try and get may mana going and he kills me. Warping Wail counters a Rift Bolt. Game 2 I'm able to get my mana going and use a Warping Wail to counter a molten rain then kill two of his lands with Ulamog to by my self a ton of time. I attack, exile half his deck fetch a wurmcoil with the eye play it and claim a sphere to go up to 7 and he scoops it up. Game 3 he kills me on turn 3 on the play. R4 - 2-1 vs. Dredgevine. Game 1 I do my thing with a turn 3 wurmcoil and turn 4 ugin and there isn't much he can do about it. Game 2 I keep a cruddy 6 and he thoughtsiezes me and takes a sylvan scrying and I never draw anymore lands besides the 2 I started with. Game 3 he get dredging pretty good and I have to exile some of his creatures with Ulamog's cast trigger instead of lands. But most of his dudes can't block so I hit him down to 5 and leave him just a few cards left in the library. He dredges, gets his last vengevine and hits me down to 6 then then plays a satyr wayfinder to flip over his last card which is a land. I attack with Ulamog one more just make sure all his library is gone and he dies on the drawstep. R5 - 2-1 vs. Infect. I turn 4 Ulamog him and he doesn't draw enough creatures to get there. Warping Wail exiles a Blighted Agent. Also loving the second Ghost quarter for this matchup. Game 2 I try to Kozilek's Return an Agent in response to a Might of Old Krosa but he has a Mutagenic Growth and I'm dead. Game 3 I get Ugin out and use him to control the board after he gets me to 9 poison counters. Quarter the Inkmoths, Wail the agents/glisteners, just keep anything with infect off the table. I'm able to ultimate Ugin get a karn, pithing needle, and some other stuff then cast the Ulamog I drew for the exile trigger to wrap it up. R6 - 1-2 vs. G/W Hatebears with Wilt-Leaf Liege (not sure if thats normal for them). Game 1 I do the typical tron thing and he GQ's me but I can still keep up my mana and Ugin + Ulamog wins it. Game 2 I he gets a turn 2 or 3 Stony Silence and I can never get going with his land hate. Game 3 I mull to a cruddy 5 and he gets Arbitor and Mindcensor out and I can't recover. R7 - 2-0 vs. no opponent. After the delay due to the smoke billowing out of the air vents the judges announce that there will be no game losses for tardiness, but the match loss at 10 minutes still applies and I get a free win. R8 - 2-1 vs. G/R scapeshift. Game 1 I play the land death game and kill all the mountains I can. Ulamog's cast trigger prompts the scoop. Game 2 I keep a slow hand and he Crumble to Dust's one of my tron lands and then gets a prime time and I scoop it up. Game three is a long one and I am able to get him down to 7, but he crumbles my towers and mines and I am stuck on mana for the majority of the game. Before he does that though I still an Ugin and able to eventually ultimate him putting in some near useless maps, 2 stars , a spellskite, and a Oblivion Stone. We go to time. On turn 2 of 5 he plays a titan and I redirect the valakut triggers to the spellskite with the stars to keep my Ugin around, but he bolts Ugin to kill him. I know he has 2 scapeshifts in hand from an earlier Crumble on my part so I leave up mana to either warping wail or activate O-Stone to kill his titan and Prismatic Omen. He goes to attack I pop the stone and he scapeshifts for his last valakut but I don't think he was able to kill me. I play a wurmcoil on turn 5 and thats the game. Opponent gives me the win which was very kind of him, and I'm going into round 9 with a chance to top 32. R9 - 2-1 vs. B/C Eldrazi. Game 1 I keep an ok hand and he has a rather slow start with a 1/1 endless one. He draws 3 ghost quarters and I cant keep up with him and he wins it with 2 mimics and a reshaper. Game 2 I keep a good hand and he doesn't have the disruption from game 1 and he scoops to an Ulamog cast trigger. Game 3 I keep a good hand and I GQ a temple then am able to Crumble his Eye's slowing him down by a lot. He still gets a smasher out and is forced to throw a couple guys at a karn and I get to kill the smasher with a deathtouch wurm and chump a 2/2 endless one with the lifelink one to keep my life up. He pinks at me with blinkmoths while I try to find a red source to Kozilek's return them and the mutvault he was about to attack with but I never can get it. I draw an Ulamog, cast it, and he scoops it again. Warping Wail was sweet. I was very happy to have the 2 main deck. Kozilek's return was very meh, as I only cast it the one time vs. infect. Probably should have done it on my turn to bait the growth. Needs more testing for sure.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:08
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Agree with you on Kozilek's Return. It's not great. I know i'm a broken record on this but going forward with this deck, you need at least 2x World Breaker's main.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:13
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anglachel posted:I don't know man, I picked up 3 Eye of Ugins for 3 bucks a pop when I heard murmurs of Eldrazi being hot new deck. I have less than 2 days left and only one of them at 25 bucks. The other 2 have no bids. The market seems to understand a ban is inevitable. It's just if you want to dominate the Grand Prix's or whatever other Tourney's in the short window before Shadows B&R announcement is the reason to get into this deck. After the PT happened, I cursed myself for selling a Japanese foil Eye of Ugin less than two weeks before. Today it's still around what I sold it for, because no one wants to invest in something that has such a short life expectancy. I doubt I'll be able to sell the three Eye of Ugins that I have right now; the best I'll be able to do is trade them to people who are just excited about the card for EDH. mcmagic posted:No. Eye won't be banned. Temple will. Your argument here is based on what you think should happen, and not what a company like WotC will do to protect its product. If Eldrazi keeps smashing Modern dailies on MTGO and the three Modern GPs next month, they're going to need to ban both Eye and Temple. Otherwise they risk players fleeing Modern out of the fear that the Eldrazi deck is still dominant. And what if they ban just Temple and the Eldrazi deck keeps performing at or near the same level? Then they either emergency ban Eye (and emergency bans are PR nightmares) or let Modern bleed players until the next B&R update. It's too risky to let either one live. En Fuego posted:Wait, L5R is an LCG now? Me too, but it's not until 2017. And the LCG scene around here is dead, I'm lucky if I can find even one other person to play Netrunner or Doomtown with. LifeLynx fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 21:16
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mcmagic posted:Agree with you on Kozilek's Return. It's not great. I know i'm a broken record on this but going forward with this deck, you need at least 2x World Breaker's main. I was going to throw one in the board but forgot to do it as I was rushing to make it in time. I'm going to try it for sure. Cactrot posted:You can see Bloom V Eldrazi at least here They are going to have Twin vs Eldazi tonight with Cheon playing twin. And Randy Buhler is going to have the Eldrazi deck vs the winner of the no banned list modern thing he is going on Monday afternoons next week as well.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:17
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Bugsy posted:I was going to throw one in the board but forgot to do it as I was rushing to make it in time. I'm going to try it for sure. It was the best card in my deck at regionals especially in the eldrazi machups. BJPaskoff posted:Your argument here is based on what you think should happen, and not what a company like WotC will do to protect its product. If Eldrazi keeps smashing Modern dailies on MTGO and the three Modern GPs next month, they're going to need to ban both Eye and Temple. Otherwise they risk players fleeing Modern out of the fear that the Eldrazi deck is still dominant. And what if they ban just Temple and the Eldrazi deck keeps performing at or near the same level? Then they either emergency ban Eye (and emergency bans are PR nightmares) or let Modern bleed players until the next B&R update. It's too risky to let either one live. The deck is fine without Temple. It's still good but not anywhere near as degenerate as it is now.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:18
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Bugsy posted:
Twins not at enough of a handicap?
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Feb 10, 2016 21:20
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Terrible Horse posted:Twins not at enough of a handicap? ahah
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Feb 10, 2016 21:22
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I agree with mcmagic that temple is the most busted of the two. Yes, it seems a lot of you think the opposite but this is my thougth process on it. Temple allows for turn 2 thought knot with either another temple or eye. Temple allows turn 3 reality smasher with another temple or eye and another non eye land. Temple isn't legendary. Eye is legendary. Eye can only do what temple does with more specific draws and dealing with legendary setback. Temple + eye is makes the entire deck busted. Temple is better early (which is what people bitch about most) and eye is better late. I feel the more effective ban would be the one that makes the early game more consistently gross.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:30
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My counterargument would be that eye fuels the more degenerate draws and if they're going to let eldrazi remain as a deck in any way eye would go first because it's the more degenerate card and because it breaks a basic rule of how lands work. That said, I think the most likely scenario is that both will get the axe if the deck needs it.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:34
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Lieutenant Centaur posted:Except, what I said before it exactly what happened w/here. Before Eldrazi.dec. There was at least 5 major Modern decks you could reasonably expect to play against, (Burn, Infect, Jund, Affinity, Tron) and a few more combo decks that could win if people didnt know how to play against them (Ad Nauseum, Living End, Scapeshift, Abzan Company). Plus a few other decks that are good like Zoo, Grishoalbrand, Merfolk, Lantern, Suicide Black. Now there is just Eldrazi, and decks designed to beat Eldrazi. And right now the decks that are being designed to beat Eldrazi are not doing too great a job at it.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:34
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Sickening posted:Temple + eye is makes the entire deck busted. Temple is better early (which is what people bitch about most) and eye is better late. I feel the more effective ban would be the one that makes the early game more consistently gross. Temple lets you cast 2 mana worth of spells on turn 1. Eye lets you cast as much as 14. Like, every game where the deck was straight up broken at the PT involved something along the lines of turn 1 Eye, Mimic, Mimic, *thing*.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:35
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It's not Temple or Eye specifically. It's Temple, Eye and SSG, all of which do things which are typically banned out of the format. gently caress I got Through the Breach and I don't know how to play this deck lol I guess its just discard poo poo, reanimate it, win.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:37
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Sickening posted:Temple + eye is makes the entire deck busted. Temple is better early (which is what people bitch about most) and eye is better late. I feel the more effective ban would be the one that makes the early game more consistently gross. Except as others have said, Eye is actually good both early and late. It can give you a shitload of mana on the very first turn (way more than Temple) in the most busted draws -- and even in not so busted and pretty reasonable draws. Eye --> Mimic --> Mimic is gross, and not some miniscule-percentage god draw. Beyond that, the legend/non-legend difference does obfuscate things a bit but I think Eye is far and away the clear winner for "land that pushes the deck from good to potentially degenerate".
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Feb 10, 2016 21:38
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TheKingofSprings posted:So with Eye basically guaranteed banned next quarter, if that, should I sell my stuff for Eldrazi now? Or wait for the 3 GPs (assuming it's not emergency banned). Could the potential legacy/vintage playability keep it going up uP UP? Most people are going to buy in for the GP and ditch immediately afterward. A week before the GP is probably going to be peak Eldrazi, I'd want to have it gone by then.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:39
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Tom Ross on Twitter: Just went a little less than 50/50 playing Aggro Shops (likely best deck in Vintage/Magic right now) vs Modern Eldrazi Aggro. Messed up.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:41
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Angry Grimace posted:It's not Temple or Eye specifically. It's Temple, Eye and SSG, all of which do things which are typically banned out of the format. In terms of degeneracy in that deck it's: 1 Temple 2 SSG 3 Eye
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Feb 10, 2016 21:42
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I think we should ban lands that produce {C}{C}{C} from modern to be honest.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:44
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lets make a format with no nonbasic lands
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Feb 10, 2016 21:47
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gwrtheyrn posted:lets make a format with no nonbasic lands hey a deck with only one nonbasic won a pro tour (in odyssey block constructed)
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Feb 10, 2016 21:49
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Zoness posted:hey a deck with only one nonbasic won a pro tour clearly that nonbasic was overpowered and needed to be banned 
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Feb 10, 2016 21:50
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Sickening posted:I agree with mcmagic that temple is the most busted of the two. Yes, it seems a lot of you think the opposite but this is my thougth process on it. I'm not a math guru but the main reason I think eye goes is the odds of having 2 of a card in your opeing 8-9 cards (t2 2x sol lands) with only 4 in the deck is low enough that it will be like the gross t2 or t3 affinity kills. It happens, but at such a small percentage its not a huge deal. They haven't banned inkmoth right? (yet haha) Thinking about temple vs. eye you can't ignore the colored eldrazi. The UR deck is more broken with eye than temple. Also going forward now that it is a known deck, there are plenty of powerful colored eldrazi spells like the white dude that will see more play. LSV was streaming with Gabby Spartz and said that if he were going to play it in the future he'd almost certainly splash white for that card. Eye allows you to cast as many eldrazi for a discount as you have other lands available. That is in fact much more busted than what temple can do. The turn 2 double temple will happen infrequently. That being said, WOTC doesn't always do the "right" thing. Their logic is inconsistent, they banned summerbloom to allow Amulet to exist but become more fair, but didnt' ban Exarch to give Twin a similar chance. I think eye is the right call, because it isn't just about TKS/Smasher, all the 3 cmc eldrazi are busted with eye. You can play 6 cmc of spells off 3 lands, 9 cmc spells of 4 lands etc. It increases exponentially and that is broken. Tron can survive without Eye. It takes away its inevitability vs. decks that seek to play a long game, which really would be a good thing for the meta. Tron has traditionally been bad for UWx control shells because they just play lands get Emrakul and kill you. Without that inevitability, it gives more traditional control decks the chance to be the one with the long game strategy. I think Eye should go, it makes eldrazi weaker but still viable because other decks can have a couple turns to get prepared to fight back, and it may open the door for blue based control. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 21:51
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gwrtheyrn posted:clearly that nonbasic was overpowered and needed to be banned By virtue of lack of saturation, the most overpowered land ever printed: 
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Feb 10, 2016 21:52
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Zoness posted:By virtue of lack of saturation, the most overpowered land ever printed: No joke this card would make modern Eldrazi pretty funny. Toss this in with Corrupted Crossroads and Cavern of Souls and just go five color colorless.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:57
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What if they banned modern? Used the new frame design for Modern 2.0 and added additional formats? Fake edit, I'm still a stupid newbie, so all this fancy pro tour poo poo means nothing to me.
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Feb 10, 2016 21:57
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Kilo147 posted:What if they banned modern? Used the new frame design for Modern 2.0 and added additional formats? Finally, we can start to put those Future Sight frames to use.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:01
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Speaking as a non tron player, how does the deck get completely hosed by losing Eye? From lists I'm reading, it doesn't appear to be anything remotely approaching a lynchpin for the deck, and more like a 'nice to have' for niche cases and game states. It doens't Eye is like a one-of. mcmagic is hyperbolic as ever. mcmagic posted:In terms of degeneracy in that deck it's: You are way off-base and couldn't be more transparent if you tried to be. We get it, you don't want them to ban stuff out of the deck you play.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:04
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Kilo147 posted:What if they banned modern? Used the new frame design for Modern 2.0 and added additional formats? WOTC is super lovely about reprints (ie they don't do them often enough) so we'd be stuck with standard ( a money pit) or more casual play. I guess it'd be alright though because cube is the best format. Cube all the time for all the things.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:05
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