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Was it just me or was the Xenoblade Chronicles X story one of the worst in recent memory? I liked the side stuff but you had to pretty much drag me into the story missions outside of the city defense one (which still had weird things but at least it was cool) God I forgot all about Billy shooting his Dad literally from the mech gun in Xenogears
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Feb 10, 2016 21:35
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Rascyc posted:God I forgot all about Billy shooting his Dad literally from the mech gun in Xenogears the best part was the scene immediately following it where billy's dad suddenly reveals that he's still okay because he made modifications to the design, and then he gives citan poo poo for making such a lovely design in the first place
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Feb 10, 2016 21:41
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Rascyc posted:Was it just me or was the Xenoblade Chronicles X story one of the worst in recent memory? I liked the side stuff but you had to pretty much drag me into the story missions outside of the city defense one (which still had weird things but at least it was cool) Nah the story is hot garbage XCX has a lot of really great elements but also a lot of utterly baffling ones
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Feb 10, 2016 21:44
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Xenogears is a good game.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:03
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Tae posted:He really doesnt like shion. Nate RFB posted:I don't think anyone does. I like Shion. I hope Kip is doing okay and one day he'll get to Episode III and the thread will explode with everyone ranting about how much they hate Shion and I can be contrarian and tell them how she's great. But seriously, the fact you actually get to beat her up tells me the writers were more than aware of how frustrated the players would be with her at this point. Music in Xensaga is really good at least. It's funny how "at least the soundtrack is good" is pretty much the fallback position of every JRPG I've ever heard of. Don't like FFXIII/Xenosaga/whatever? At least the music is good. P.S. Xenogears will probably be my favorite JRPG forever. It's legitimately good game. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 22:03
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Libluini posted:I enjoy a lot of bad games, that won't make them magically good. What I've seen of Xenogears made me recognize it as the sort of game I could enjoy if I ever find a time machine to travel back to the 90s, but that doesn't make it good. Hell, if I had infinite time I would play it today. Actually that should magically make them good, to you. If you're having a good time and it isn't despite the game, like for example you're laughing with your friends at how dumb it is, but instead you're having a good time because of the intentional things put into the game, you should consider it good.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:03
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NikkolasKing posted:Music in Xensaga is really good at least. It'ps funny how "at least the soundtrack is good" is pretty much the fallback position of every JRPG I've ever heard of. Don't like FFXIII/Xenosaga/whatever? At least the music is good. tales of legendia has a lot of issues, but at the very least tomorrow will surely be sunny Or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PetEZ_ahg-Q
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Feb 10, 2016 22:06
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if we're talking tales of zestiria then on the bright side, right now, flaming bonds are being tested
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Feb 10, 2016 22:10
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RadicalR posted:So I picked up episode 3 in a trade. Is it a worth a playthrough? it has a boob cannon that can destroy stars Also it's very easy, has cool music, a good dub, and some nice dungeons. In fact, it's probably the only Xeno game up until that point that had good dungeons. ACES CURE PLANES posted:Yeah, 1 is a pretty fun game, but just watch 2's cutscenes or read a synopsis or something because it is painfully bad. I agree with this. Just know that, if you play Episode 1, it has the slowest start in any game I've ever played. Even as someone who likes it, I skip a ton of poo poo. But even as a sincere fan of Xenosaga, I think Episode II is awful. There was a Japanese only rerelease of Episode I and II for the DS that actually tried to fix many of EP2's mistakes. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Feb 10, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 22:18
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NikkolasKing posted:There was a Japanese only rerelease of Episode I and II for the DS that actually tried to fix many of EP2's mistakes. Speaking of which, did that ever get any sort of fan translation? I mean I doubt it, but...
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Feb 10, 2016 22:23
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Phantasium posted:Speaking of which, did that ever get any sort of fan translation? I mean I doubt it, but... There was a group working on it but I haven't heard any updates in a good long while. From what I recall, they had the script translated but there were a lot of bugs and stuff they were trying to sort out. The Xeno fanbase is a very dedicated group and you can find translations for pretty much anything online. I recall before I started Episode III back when it first came out here that I was overjoyed to find ]Pied Piper was translated. For those not in the know, this is a cell phone game that goes over Ziggy's past as a human. It's very helpful for understanding parts of EP3. It's also really interesting if I remember right. I'm glad it's still available online after all these years.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:41
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If I remember right, Pied Piper was better written than the main games too mostly because it was a personal story about Ziggy and the events that led to his suicide and rebirth as a cyborg and ditched the pretentious meaningless symbolism from the main games.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:45
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Xenosaga's character driven moments were always a big highlight so it makes sense an entire game of just that would be comparatively well written. It was backloaded pretty significantly towards the end of his ark but I liked Cherenkov's little plot beat in the first game a lot.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:51
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a medical mystery posted:Xenosaga's character driven moments were always a big highlight so it makes sense an entire game of just that would be comparatively well written. From the little discussions I've seen over the years, Cherenkov's subplot tends to impress a lot of people. It's a relatively simple, extremely emotionally -charged story about a guy who just doesn't fit in anywhere. It helps that it had this absolutely amazing song playing during part of it. I can't stress enough how much I love this track.
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Feb 10, 2016 22:57
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a medical mystery posted:Xenosaga's character driven moments were always a big highlight so it makes sense an entire game of just that would be comparatively well written. I would say one of its big problems is that it did so much better on secondary characters than the main ones. Like the stories behind Cherenkov, the Blue Testament and Albedo are interesting. The Red Testament, pretty much the most important one? His characterization doesn't make any sense. His boss? A pure mystery.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:31
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Xenogears did a lot of very cool things like some great world building with cities and cultures oozing with lore and references to real world religions and cultures (loved me some middle eastern prince as a sand pirate), 80's anime references, a love story set over multiple generations, class struggles, a cute little fluffy pink alien getting mistaken as a stuffed animal and then saving the day and then getting literally crucified, probably some environmentalism because it was the 90's, NANOMACHINES, two characters getting it on in a way that was totally respectfully treated and a breath of fresh air after many JRPG's before then were afraid to pull the trigger on that, a fantastic OST, great battle sprite animations, dissociative identity disorder dine in a cool but sad way, and giant robots doing all kinds of stuff. It was a game that really tried to do too much and was overstuffed with flavor. And I loved it but I can't see myself playing it again. I'll admit I didn't even hate disc 2 doing the chair summary because by that point, I was ready to see the story finish. That last dungeon was the worst though.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:42
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Actually that should magically make them good, to you. If you're having a good time and it isn't despite the game, like for example you're laughing with your friends at how dumb it is, but instead you're having a good time because of the intentional things put into the game, you should consider it good. So by your logic a bad movie turns into a cinematic master piece just because you have fun watching it? Have you never heard the term "so bad that it's good"? As an aside, I've always considered it weird how some people have to pretend something they like is good, or their enjoyment suffers. The way some people look at a steaming pile of garbage and have to go "Yeah, I like this pile of poo poo, therefore it is a good game/movie/book.", is kind of creepy to me. It's like their brain has some serious malfunction, or as if they aren't really honest to themselves. I don't need to pretend, I can have fun with both Zelda III and Master of Orion III, even though the first one is genuinely well-made and the second is a sad heap of rubbish. In the same vein I can see all the flaws of Xenogears, admit they make the game lovely and still say I probably would have had fun with it if I had known it existed back in the 90s.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:51
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The Thames was a good and cool JRPG location.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:53
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Libluini posted:In the same vein I can see all the flaws of Xenogears, admit they make the game lovely and still say I probably would have had fun with it if I had known it existed back in the 90s. You hold very strong opinions on a game you haven't played and even stronger opinions on demanding people who have played it acknowledge you're right about the clearly objective measurement of game quality. Edit: For example, I'm pretty sure literally the only discussion you can have about the gameplay mechanics or level design or anything of the sort is literally repeating what The Dark Id said because he doesn't linger on that stuff for long. So saying "you can see all the flaws" is pretty silly because there are both strengths and flaws you probably have no idea about. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 10, 2016 23:53
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What irks me is saying "everything about that game is garbage" when it's really not true. There is plenty of garbage to deal with in each Xeno game (and most rpg's in general) but they all also do some very great things. On that note, FF8 is one of my most despised games but I will freely admit the OST is amazing, the card game is fun, I liked the structure of the final dungeon, and it did some really cool set pieces.
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Feb 10, 2016 23:58
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lol you never even played the game
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Feb 11, 2016 00:00
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Libluini posted:So by your logic a bad movie turns into a cinematic master piece just because you have fun watching it? No, not movies, just games. It's a game. The point of a game is typically for the player to have fun or a good time. That's all a game really needs. If a game comes out and almost everyone has a blast playing it, by any objective measure it is most definitely a good game. If a game came out that only critics like, I would say that would be a lovely game. quote:Have you never heard the term "so bad that it's good"? I did say that if you had fun by laughing at it that would be a different case. quote:As an aside, I've always considered it weird how some people have to pretend something they like is good, or their enjoyment suffers. The way some people look at a steaming pile of garbage and have to go "Yeah, I like this pile of poo poo, therefore it is a good game/movie/book.", is kind of creepy to me. It's like their brain has some serious malfunction, or as if they aren't really honest to themselves. Well that's you. I don't like rubbish. I don't know why you like games that aren't good. You're weird. All the games I like are good. quote:In the same vein I can see all the flaws of Xenogears, admit they make the game lovely and still say I probably would have had fun with it if I had known it existed back in the 90s. Oh great, now it's not just bad, now it's lovely. Of a game you never played.
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Feb 11, 2016 00:16
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i haven't read any of this guys posts but i can see that they're lovely
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Feb 11, 2016 00:20
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All the games I like are not good but I'm also pretty comfortable discussing the flaws and strengths of a game I like that isn't good. Even games that I think have extremely high strengths can also have significant flaws. In some cases I'd still recommend them and in others I'd acknowledge that I like them but they're kinda lovely. There are also games I can recognize as being good that I just genuinely don't enjoy for whatever reason. Xenogears is a game with a lot of flaws but also a lot of high points and a lot of things it does very well even for this time. While I can't say it is a flawless masterpiece I also think it's genuinely worth playing at least once because a lot of the things it does can be genuinely interesting and it is excellent at crafting tone and atmosphere even if sometimes that tone and atmosphere is absurd. I also can recognize the divorce between how I liked it as a kid and how I enjoy it as an adult, not in the least because as an adult I can recognize strengths and flaws I didn't see as a kid. (Not in the least being the aforementioned "half the poo poo in the game is a weird mecha show injoke".) Like, to use other examples, I like Final Fantasy 6 a lot. It's my favorite in the franchise. A lot of the core mechanics are either terrible or literally broken. It has a ton of design decisions that range from absurd to terrible. (It has no fewer than 4 characters whose gimmick involves taking control away from the player entirely for example.) Despite this it has a ton of strengths in terms of atmosphere, world building, visual design, soundtrack, story beats and various other factors that allow it to shine despite its many flaws. I'd be hard-pressed to call FF6 genuinely lovely despite it having basic gameplay mechanics that didn't work until the GBA release of the game because flaws do not inherently make a game lovely. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 00:21
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I really liked FF8. Also, 12 is probably my favorite, even though I never got around to finish it. Never thought 6 to be more than OK Maybe I have weird taste in JRPGs
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Feb 11, 2016 00:47
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Just by nature of how you can play RPG's in a way you like, I think it's easier to accept or overlook flaws in a game over a movie. If a movie has an actor you don't care for or the screenplay is not so good, you're stuck with them. In an RPG, you can just not use a character you don't like or skip through cutscenes you don't care for. Or, you might not even notice that a game mechanic is broken. I didn't know FF6 had some broken stats until people were talking about it in a thread here a few years ago.
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Feb 11, 2016 00:47
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Libluini posted:So by your logic a bad movie turns into a cinematic master piece just because you have fun watching it? Have you never heard the term "so bad that it's good"? Cake Attack posted:lol you never even played the game
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Feb 11, 2016 00:58
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Personally I think that calling the people who like a game weird even though you've never played it, to be a weird action.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:01
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Well that's you. I don't like rubbish. I don't know why you like games that aren't good. You're weird. All the games I like are good. i think this is kind of a dumb thing to say. i like a lot of games that are bad or flawed, and also that it's okay to like them Srice posted:Personally I think that calling the people who like a game weird even though you've never played it, to be a weird action. i think people who like that anime girl gradius game are weird but i'm not going to play it for myself
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Feb 11, 2016 01:06
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are we talking about liking flawed and bad games in the rpg thread because i'm the world's foremost authority on megaman x command mission, a game which is both
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Feb 11, 2016 01:18
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a lot of my favorite games aren't very good technically (star ocean 2 and lunar in particular..) but just mean a lot to me because of memories i associate with them. you can see if a game is bad or not without playing it but it feels unfair to write off a game as huge as xenogears based on a joke lp written by a guy whose mission is to make everything look as dumb as possible. how music ties in, pacing of scenes, the thrill of juggling enemies, there's a lot of ebbs and flows you can't feel from watching it. it might help if people even vaguely. said what exactly made a game bad, when calling it bad. I like xenosaga 2 and don't know why it has so many detractors. I have the feeling a lot of people got mad about the battle system. ~_~
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Feb 11, 2016 01:23
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GulagDolls posted:I like xenosaga 2 and don't know why it has so many detractors. I have the feeling a lot of people got mad about the battle system. ~_~ I got mad because I didn't like the new character designs.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:26
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The specific thing that comes up a lot with Xenosaga 2 that I remember is that people didn't like that it focused so heavily on Jr. when they were more interested in other characters.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:28
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Getsuya posted:I got mad because I didn't like the new character designs. momo grows two feet in the hour after xenosaga 1 ended
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Feb 11, 2016 01:29
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My main memories of Xenosaga 2 are of a glacially slow battle system - they tried to make something unique and it almost worked, but the pace of the action suffered for it. On top of that, once you had an idea of the general flow - juggle the enemy then down it then juggle it again - you didn't really do anything new and most characters just ended up doing very similar stuff over and over and over? This might be coloured by my memories of Xenosaga 3 being one single constantly hi-octane explosion, though.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:31
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NikkolasKing posted:Music in Xensaga is really good at least. It's funny how "at least the soundtrack is good" is pretty much the fallback position of every JRPG I've ever heard of. Don't like FFXIII/Xenosaga/whatever? At least the music is good. Well, rest assured there's at least one bad JRPG no one'll ever use that excuse for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJbuHUbw8k
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Feb 11, 2016 01:34
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Megaman X Command Mission is a game with a desert level that's second only to Breath of Fire 3 in being ungodly awful, a bad encounter rate, a plot that loses itself halfway through and explains its biggest plot twist so poorly that the few active fans the game has are still arguing about its logistics, the worst battle theme ever once you get past the halfway point, a crafting system which encourages hoarding of things you get before you even unlock said system, and the loving Eternal Forest, which is the most obnoxious poo poo ever if you want to get 100% treasure completion for that sick concept art. However, it's also a game with charmingly bad voice acting (HUAAAAAAAAARGH. I DID IT.) a snappy and responsive combat system with good explosion noises, Steel Massimo who owns, ridiculous character designs, a bizarrely high skill ceiling for a turn-based RPG, a specific system in place for overkilling the gently caress out of enemies, X's exhaust scarf (this is a character design but it gets two points,) enslaving regular enemies to go grab stuff from old levels for you, and I mean just look at this  this owns and nobody can persuade me otherwise. this is why i like this game which i would also say is bad Anyway, Xenogears is also an enjoyable and fun game to play once and then not again because it is very long.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:37
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Agnostalgia posted:Well, rest assured there's at least one bad JRPG no one'll ever use that excuse for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGJbuHUbw8k I was sure you were going to link to the Sonic RPG but then I remembered that's technically not a jrpg.
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Feb 11, 2016 01:38
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2's system of constantly stocking and then unleashing 'epic maneuver' where if anything went wrong you did 5 damage was ok imo. it wasn't as good or dynamic as 1's boost+event reel thing, which provided some depth and variance between even regular enemy battles if the player cared about getting point bonuses. but I still think it's more fun than most jrpg battle systems. this fight was cool https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvzuQ5WWeIA&t=1355s
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Feb 11, 2016 01:38
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mycot posted:I was sure you were going to link to the Sonic RPG but then I remembered that's technically not a jrpg. WELL THERE AINT A J IN THIS THREADS TITLE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o47N-aYd08
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Feb 11, 2016 01:39
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