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Yodzilla posted:Also I'm really curious now as to what happens if you go through the game talking to Delilah as little as possible and lying to her about your life. Welp this is really disappointing. Spoilers obviously https://www.reddit.com/r/Firewatch/comments/454ujh/i_just_beat_firewatch_and_only_talked_to_delilah/ Also disappointing are people bragging about beating the game in 3-4 hours and still being allowed a refund. gently caress those people.
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Feb 11, 2016 18:48
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I liked the game. It was really like playing through a relatively short novel. My wife isn't a gamer at all, loves the Wyoming wilderness, and read at least one book I know of by a guy who did a fire watch in New Mexico. I think this'll be a great game to try to introduce her to.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:09
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Also for those wondering why Brian died climbing in the cave despite leaving his climbing gear in his den? The only way the kid had to get to his den was to climb there through the cave, you get to it the first time by breaking through a collapsed tunnel with the Pulaski and dropping down into the area. The only way back is to climb. The kid died making one final trip back.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:11
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Fans posted:The conclusions they come to make sense and isn't paranoia at all. Guessing the actual truth straight away would have been far more paranoid and nonsensical. You can trigger dialogue from Delilah where she acknowledges she was told about the camp but is so disorganized (alcoholic) that it was buried under papers on her desk. There is evidence throughout the game that their conclusions are nonsensical and that they're being paranoid. There's a soil grid at the research site. Henry spots an earthquake monitor, then Delilah insists it's a lie detector, and the tooltip actually changes. The homing devices are attached to animal collars, and there's even a point where you can use the tracker to find a deer with a tracking collar on it. The behavioral experiment angle wasn't even Ned's idea; he got it from their reaction to finding his clipboard. Henry and Delilah are just two lonely alcoholics enabling each other's escapism in a Wyoming forest for a summer. Toady fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 19:15
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Fans posted:Also for those wondering why Brian died climbing in the cave despite leaving his climbing gear in his den? The only way the kid had to get to his den was to climb there through the cave, you get to it the first time by breaking through a collapsed tunnel with the Pulaski and dropping down into the area. The only way back is to climb. The kid died making one final trip back. But I don't think that makes particular sense after thinking about a day. Was probably nothing.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:18
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That kind of falls apart though when there's Ned, playing puppet master behind the scenes. It's not paranoia if there really is someone listening in on your conversations. Henry and Delilah are not very smart, but they're not just making up a conspiracy for fun either. IThere's literally someone who's been living in a Tony Stark cave for years trying to cover up the death of their son.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:20
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Yodzilla posted:Welp this is really disappointing. Spoilers obviously https://www.reddit.com/r/Firewatch/comments/454ujh/i_just_beat_firewatch_and_only_talked_to_delilah/ Wait, he says his first game Juliet was in Australia, and his second game he put her in a home. Does Juliet end up their either way? I definitely put her in a home in my game, and Henry says multiple times that she's in Melbourne. Not really important, either way. Just not something I thought could change.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:32
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Fans posted:That kind of falls apart though when there's Ned, playing puppet master behind the scenes. It's not paranoia if there really is someone listening in on your conversations. Henry and Delilah are not very smart, but they're not just making up a conspiracy for fun either. IThere's literally someone who's been living in a Tony Stark cave for years trying to cover up the death of their son. There are obvious signs throughout that there was no behavioral experiment targeting just them and that it was merely someone messing with them. They were rationalizing their paranoia and connecting the dots between coincidences. They even start questioning each other as being part of the conspiracy. And then it turns out to be the simplest, most obvious explanation--a nut in the forest overhearing their radios (a nut they knew had gone missing, had PTSD, and was into ham radios). In reality, they're just lonely alcoholics isolated in the forest for three months inventing a greater meaning for everything.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:46
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Toady posted:There are obvious signs throughout that there was no behavioral experiment targeting just them and that it was merely someone messing with them. They were rationalizing their paranoia and connecting the dots between coincidences. They even start questioning each other as being part of the conspiracy. And then it turns out to be the simplest, most obvious explanation--a nut in the forest overhearing their radios (a nut they knew had gone missing, had PTSD, and was into ham radios). In reality, they're just lonely alcoholics isolated in the forest for three months inventing a greater meaning for everything. Yeah, exactly. This puts it in a clearer way than I was able to quite get at.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:50
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Toady posted:And then it turns out to be the simplest, most obvious explanation I really don't know in what kind of world the actual explanation is simple or obvious, especially given the physical evidence available to H&D. Ned wasn't supposed to be out there in the first place, and he hadn't gone missing (in that no one had reported him missing, at least). As far as Delilah knew he had gone back home with his son.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:57
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I really don't know in what kind of world the actual explanation is simple or obvious, especially given the physical evidence available to H&D. The typewritten notes they found at a university research camp that had elk tracking collars, a soil grid, and a seismic monitor? The simpler explanation is that there's a nut in the forest listening to their radios, not that the government is conducting a secret behavioral research project. After all, Henry knew there was someone else out there because he saw Ned near the cave at the start of the game. QUEEN CAUCUS posted:
Sorry you didn't find Area 51 in the forests of Wyoming. Toady fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 20:11
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It's a bad series of subplots that doesn't connect very well and completely fizzles out in the end but don't you SEE THAT'S WHY IT'S SO GOOD
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Toady posted:And then it turns out to be the simplest, most obvious explanation--a nut in the forest overhearing their radios (a nut they knew had gone missing, had PTSD, and was into ham radios). In reality, they're just lonely alcoholics isolated in the forest for three months inventing a greater meaning for everything.[/spoiler] I'm not sure "Maybe Ned's been secretly living in the forest for years without anyone noticing" is a more obvious explanation, especially since they had no idea Brian was dead. The towers aren't even staffed in the Winter, how the hell would he survive?
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Feb 11, 2016 20:17
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Fans posted:The towers aren't even staffed in the Winter, how the hell would he survive? As far as I'm aware, the towers are only there to report and monitor fires. I don't know why no one being in them would make it harder for him to survive. Additionally, he's a veteran that clearly knows his way around the outdoors and he has an underground bunker that protects him from the elements. I didn't find him living out there unknown to be that unbelievable. It wouldn't be easy, but he apparently found it easier than living in civilization and dealing with what happened to his son. There's also a list in his bunker labeled "Winter Supplies Needed". Pretty much every answer of 'why' or 'how' regarding Ned can be found by reading the poo poo he left behind.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:27
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Fans posted:I'm not sure "Maybe Ned's been secretly living in the forest for years without anyone noticing" is a more obvious explanation, especially since they had no idea Brian was dead. The towers aren't even staffed in the Winter, how the hell would he survive? A secret government mind experiment in the Wyoming forest is a more obvious explanation than some guy (who Henry saw)? Aside from the evidence already presented against there being an experiment (for me, the soil grid was a big clue that the game was toying with you about the "mystery"), when the game kept getting more and more into Delilah's experience with the Goodwins, how Ned had PTSD, how they were into ham radios and technology, it was pretty obviously going in that direction.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:28
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Toady posted:The typewritten notes they found at a university research camp that had elk tracking collars, a soil grid, and a seismic monitor? The simpler explanation is that there's a nut in the forest listening to their radios, not that the government is conducting a secret behavioral research project. After all, Henry knew there was someone else out there because he saw Ned near the cave at the start of the game. Sorry that none of the plots really amounted to anything and there was absolutely nothing satisfying to end even the most mundane of these stories, and the main character basically goes "Oh." and then that's the ending.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:29
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Hobo Clown posted:As far as I'm aware, the towers are only there to report and monitor fires. I don't know why no one being in them would make it harder for him to survive. Because they wouldn't be getting the supplies he was stealing. During the time he needed them the most. Toady posted:A secret government mind experiment in the Wyoming forest is a more obvious explanation than some guy (who Henry saw)? Aside from the evidence already presented against there being an experiment (for me, the soil grid was a big clue that the game was toying with you about the "mystery"), when the game kept getting more and more into Delilah's experience with the Goodwins, how Ned had PTSD, how they were into ham radios and technology, it was pretty obviously going in that direction. Narratively yes it was obvious the story involved the Goodwins. From the characters perspectives though, a government experiment was far more reasonable a conclusion than a man living in the woods for years. I mean imagine the conversation. "Maybe Ned's still living here years later and loving with us" "How would he be doing that?" "Maybe he's living in a secret lair and has built a way to listen to our radios off things he's found in the forest and yeah this is really stupid. Sorry." They've got absolutely no reason to think it's Ned. Fans fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 20:29
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It might blow some posters' minds here, but there are, in fact, people who live out in the wilderness like hermits!
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Feb 11, 2016 20:31
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But how do they play video games.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:32
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doctor iono posted:It might blow some posters' minds here, but there are, in fact, people who live out in the wilderness like hermits! I'm not saying they don't. Just that it wouldn't make much sense for the characters to come to that conclusion.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:35
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You can bring the boombox with you all the way back to your tower from the lake 
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Feb 11, 2016 20:36
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Macaluso posted:You can bring the boombox with you all the way back to your tower from the lake What is that tune?
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Feb 11, 2016 20:39
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If you call Delilah while doing it she bitches about the music too.Jippa posted:What is that tune? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc6S6Mqr8Oo
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Feb 11, 2016 20:40
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Yeah I carried it around for a while but I got tired of that song so I threw it into one of the ranger caches for someone else. 
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Feb 11, 2016 20:42
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QUEEN CAUCUS posted:Sorry that none of the plots really amounted to anything and there was absolutely nothing satisfying to end even the most mundane of these stories, and the main character basically goes "Oh." and then that's the ending. They amounted to something less exciting for you. It's fine. One of the developers has likened the story to a summer fling, something you're intensely involved in that turns out to be a blip in your life that's less meaningful than you thought it was while you were experiencing it. Fans posted:Narratively yes it was obvious the story involved the Goodwins. From the characters perspectives though, a government experiment was far more reasonable a conclusion than a man living in the woods for years. I mean imagine the conversation. I'm not sure why you keep dismissing the evidence throughout the game refuting the idea of an experiment. At the research site, there was a soil grid, seismic monitor, and animal collars. When Henry is examining the shredded camp site, Delilah dismissively remarks that there are crazy people in the forest, and Henry sees Ned, so he knows someone is out there with them. As the game began to focus more on the backstory of the Goodwins, particularly Ned's personality, it became obvious the direction the story was going. Toady fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 20:42
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My only point is its not unreasonable for the character's to think what they do. Because the actual truth is not something they could have reasonably come up with without sounding completely crazy to each other. While what they believe is outlandish, there isn't really a better option for them. I knew which way the story was going, but that's different from what the characters know.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:47
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I'm not saying they should have known from the start exactly who was out there but that the assumptions they did make were refuted by evidence staring them in the face.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:52
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Yeah it mostly comes down to the main character not being very bright. Though the game never makes him out to be, so this is perfectly okay storytelling.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:53
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Fans posted:My only point is its not unreasonable for the character's to think what they do. Because the actual truth is not something they could have reasonably come up with without sounding completely crazy to each other. While what they believe is outlandish, there isn't really a better option for them. I understand your point, but I still disagree. I might not be separating the characters' perspective from my own as much as I should, but I honestly still think that "crazy man in the woods monitors people's calls" isn't really that weird. It's basically this guy with more technical knowhow. That being said, I feel like a lot of this game needed more time to breathe. I don't usually think games should be longer, and I don't mind short games. But even two or three extra days would have helped build up the Hank-Delilah relationship more and also maybe drive home the themes of paranoia and isolation a little more. It's a little hard to get into the characters' mindsets when the experience itself is so short. The introduction was well done, though.
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Feb 11, 2016 20:58
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I said it a number of pages back, but I agree that the game could've used a little more just stuff in general. I feel like the story is very tightly knit to the point where it's a bit too tight- everything happens over the span of almost 80 days, but I feel like we don't see enough of those 80 days for it to feel like that long. Honestly that's probably my only complaint about the writing in general.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:02
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Fans posted:If you call Delilah while doing it she bitches about the music too. 
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Feb 11, 2016 21:06
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Fans posted:Yeah it mostly comes down to the main character not being very bright. He's a regular guy. I'm pleased they could make a regular guy come across as unique and well rounded.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:08
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Can we drop spoiler tags? The game's only a few hours long and has been out a couple of days.Fans posted:Yeah it mostly comes down to the main character not being very bright. I didn't think either of them was dumb. They get caught up in an exciting distraction. He's ashamed of his life, and Delilah's a drunk who avoids confrontation. They have a Weird Summer in Wyoming and probably never speak to each other again.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:08
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doctor iono posted:I understand your point, but I still disagree. I might not be separating the characters' perspective from my own as much as I should, but I honestly still think that "crazy man in the woods monitors people's calls" isn't really that weird. It's basically this guy with more technical knowhow. And the radio monitoring is in no way uncommon, especially among HAM enthusiasts. Back in my ranger days I even had a guy straight up ask for our frequency offset so he could listen in.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:13
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Not sure why people are having issues with the story or the logic to it. It all makes perfect sense and these people feel like mostly real characters. I felt thr game was great but unless you REALLY love your narrative driven walking simulators wait 'til it's $7-10. Best one of them though! I think the "games as art" argument is becoming validated. Much like there are a billion indie movies out there (Lost In Translation, that one with Steve Buscimi interviewing an actress, etc.) this is a brief game with little plot that's all about character development and interaction. Unlike those films, this is good.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:13
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Dark_Swordmaster.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:24
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The text in your post is a different color.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:26
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I liked Firewatch a lot but it's got nothing on Lost in Translation.
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Feb 11, 2016 21:31
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The only two points on which I can compliment this, uh... software, are the wit of the dialogue and the excellence of it's delivery. I found the environment to be my biggest complaint. While it is pretty, the modeled foliage obfuscates a stripped down Doom level with barely any interactive qualities. I found it to be a slog to traverse and and annoying to navigate around. It's like running from point A to B in Skyrim but without the ability to jump over small logs or scale gentle slopes. Far too often I could see where I had to go next but I couldn't find the "door" that would lead me out of one clearing and into the next. Exploration of the environment is not incentivized and where the opportunity to wander is not cut short by abrupt chapter breaks, it is instead gated off Metriod style. The plot does not branch. I did not see any points at which anything that the player did or said would have a notable affect, besides altering the exposition slightly. I don't see any replay value in this product, but it makes me wish that renting software via download was a thing. This would be a good get for PS Plus or that Playstation Now thing.
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Feb 11, 2016 22:33
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So I finished the game and have seen some of the responses and I have some thoughts. First of all: I think it's good, albeit not outstanding in a "this is the pinnacle of what games can do" kinda way, but strong in its niche (that niche being interactive fiction, where the game mechanic is the story choices you make). I think a lot of people have missed the IF aspect, as I see a lot of criticism of the physical world of the game but for me the physical environment is just the setting. This is not an "open world" game and I think that's ok, it's not necessary for it to be, as the "game" is the story and the way it unfolds. I feel this is the kind of game that has to be approached like a novel, or maybe even a short story. World building isn't necessary, and by extension neither is open world exploration. We're in tight focus here, and open-world freedom would make for an entirely different game. So yeah. Firewatch: very good, not amazing, game. Story might not be for everyone. I think I enjoyed it because it was a bit like going for a walk in the woods and falling into a story, and if that's not something you'd find appealing it's probably going to fall quite flat.
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Feb 11, 2016 23:25
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Vando posted:So I finished the game and have seen some of the responses and I have some thoughts. First of all: I think it's good, albeit not outstanding in a "this is the pinnacle of what games can do" kinda way, but strong in its niche (that niche being interactive fiction, where the game mechanic is the story choices you make). I think a lot of people have missed the IF aspect, as I see a lot of criticism of the physical world of the game but for me the physical environment is just the setting. This is not an "open world" game and I think that's ok, it's not necessary for it to be, as the "game" is the story and the way it unfolds. I feel this is the kind of game that has to be approached like a novel, or maybe even a short story. World building isn't necessary, and by extension neither is open world exploration. We're in tight focus here, and open-world freedom would make for an entirely different game. I'd agree with this. I actually wish it was a little less open. The least interesting parts were when I got tripped up and walked the wrong way for a bit, but overall the game did a pretty good job nudging you in the right direction. The interactive fiction or "walking simulator" genre is weird because it's fairly new and a lot of people seem to have a bone to pick with it. I think it's still just figuring out how to do it well. I'm yet to play one of these games I would consider great (unless you count Soma, but I don't know if I'd classify it in the same genre) but this is definitely one of the stronger efforts. Everybody's Gone to The Rapture and Vanishing of Ethan Carter left a pretty bad taste in my mouth, but Firewatch actually putting effort into making itself entertaining sets it leagues beyond those games imo. Still haven't played Gone Home but I hear that one is solid too. Edit: why are practically all of these games set in the 80's?
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Feb 12, 2016 01:07
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