X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > X-Wing: Let's Fly Some Wangs

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Chemmy posted:

My FLGS is saying 2/29 for Wave 8 stuff. I'm patiently waiting for Imperial Veterans.

I hope the boat bringing /x7 and /D over sinks to the bottom of the Pacific and we all agree to pretend Imperial Veterans never existed

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:20

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# ? May 16, 2024 18:07

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

Strobe posted:

Whatever, be the self-appointed fun police.

Personally I think it's more fun if people can actually disagree about things rather than feeling compelled to let the hype train roll on but okay

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:20

enigmahfc: Oct 10, 2003; EFF TEE DUB!!
EFF TEE DUB!!

guts and bolts posted:

Me, personally, I don't think it's super-productive to talk about how awesome a thing is when it isn't,

Opinions vary, people even have different opinions as well. No one likes being told their opinion is flat out wrong, which is what 'analysis' of a card that comes with a little plastic ship comes across as.

Traditionally, I felt that heavy analysis was left to the FF boards, where here people like to have entertaining discussions with helpful info thrown in. It's one of the reason I enjoy posting here, and one of the reasons I tend not to post on the FF boards. I consider myself 'competitive' in this game, but still have the realistic perspective that this all revolves around toy spaceships.

Chemmy posted:

I'm patiently waiting for Imperial Veterans.

If wave 8 is any indicator, you better be really patient.

enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Feb 11, 2016

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:21

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

enigmahfc posted:

Opinions vary, people even have different opinions as well. No one likes being told their opinion is flat out wrong, which is what 'analysis' of a card that comes with a little plastic ship comes across as.

Traditionally, I felt that heavy analysis was left to the FF boards, where here people like to have entertaining discussions with helpful info thrown in. It's one of the reason I enjoy posting here, and one of the reasons I tend not to post on the FF boards. I consider myself 'competitive' in this game, but still have the realistic perspective that this all revolves around toy spaceships.

This feels pretty specious to me, but I don't really want to go off on another page-long derail about what's acceptable to talk about in the X-Wing thread. It's cool that we don't agree, that's all, and there's no need to trivialize things on either side. No hay de que.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:23

Finster Dexter: Oct 20, 2014; Beyond is Finster's mad vision of Earth transformed.

What I like about this stuff is that Boba and the Jumpman5000 aren't OP per se, but they all feel like they could be really interesting in skilled hands with the right list. I know that goes for a lot of things in X-wing, but honestly, it's why I love the game, so far.

Even Thug life can lose in the wrong hands. I took apart Thug Life the other night using Soontir+Black Crack Mini-swarm. I am still bad at this game, but a combo of the Thug life player making some bad choices about splitting forces to deal with Soontir and the fact that I got Soontir to actually work for me (instead of slamming into like 3 or 4 asteroids).

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:23

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Finster Dexter posted:

What I like about this stuff is that Boba and the Jumpman5000 aren't OP per se, but they all feel like they could be really interesting in skilled hands with the right list. I know that goes for a lot of things in X-wing, but honestly, it's why I love the game, so far.

Even Thug life can lose in the wrong hands. I took apart Thug Life the other night using Soontir+Black Crack Mini-swarm. I am still bad at this game, but a combo of the Thug life player making some bad choices about splitting forces to deal with Soontir and the fact that I got Soontir to actually work for me (instead of slamming into like 3 or 4 asteroids).

Soontir is so incredible against some lists, man. Token-tank Soontir getting hit by a TLT shot is like... I forgot, Brunas showed me maths about it but it's like < 5% odds, it's glorious.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:24

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

enigmahfc posted:

Opinions vary, people even have different opinions as well. No one likes being told their opinion is flat out wrong, which is what 'analysis' of a card that comes with a little plastic ship comes across as.

Traditionally, I felt that heavy analysis was left to the FF boards, where here people like to have entertaining discussions with helpful info thrown in. It's one of the reason I enjoy posting here, and one of the reasons I tend not to post on the FF boards. I consider myself 'competitive' in this game, but still have the realistic perspective that this all revolves around toy spaceships.

"It's only toy spaceships" seems like a reason *not* to be an enormous baby about people disagreeing with you to me.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:27

enigmahfc: Oct 10, 2003; EFF TEE DUB!!
EFF TEE DUB!!

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

"It's only toy spaceships" seems like a reason *not* to be an enormous baby about people disagreeing with you to me.

You got me, man. Right in the heart.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:34

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Strobe posted:

Whatever, be the self-appointed fun police.

on my X Wang

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:35

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Jeb Bush 2012 posted:

"It's only toy spaceships" seems like a reason *not* to be an enormous baby about people disagreeing with you to me.

At the same time, it's also a reason to not vehemently post about somebody being wrong too. Look at the magic thread - every time someone's wrong people are vicious at attacking it. I see it at the LGSs too. It's a huge reason why the community is toxic and lovely.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:36

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

guts and bolts posted:

I hope the boat bringing /x7 and /D over sinks to the bottom of the Pacific and we all agree to pretend Imperial Veterans never existed

Sorry that you don't like the idea of the TIE Defender not being a steaming hunk of poo poo.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:38

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Improbable Lobster posted:

Sorry that you don't like the idea of the TIE Defender not being a steaming hunk of poo poo.

I'd rather have it be a steaming hunk of poo poo than more efficient-by-point than a TIE Fighter. :mad:

Obviously some of this is hyperbole, but if you've flown against a proxied DVD list, it is incredibly oppressive. Getting damage through on an /x7 is brutal. There is no way that that title needed to reduce the cost of the ship; I get that Defenders are overcosted, but that is some nonsense right thurr. You wanna talk about meta-warping updates on the horizon, the TIE Defender titles are it.

Chill la Chill posted:

At the same time, it's also a reason to not vehemently post about somebody being wrong too. Look at the magic thread - every time someone's wrong people are vicious at attacking it. I see it at the LGSs too. It's a huge reason why the community is toxic and lovely.

I legitimately do not intend to come across as "attacking" anyone - which is part of the reason why I'm wary of hype trains to begin with. You're either on board with the crazy or you're a mean-spirited hater making personal attacks, and I promise I'm not. Like, I was and am making Boba builds and Ghost builds and JumpMaster builds in this thread and I don't mean any offense, but yeah I'm not going to just :toot:

BOBA A BEST :toot:

because there's basically no discussion to have there. We would all agree Boba is the best and super sick, blaze it.

That's my last piece on the fun/anti-fun discussion, my bad.

guts and bolts fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 11, 2016

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:42

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

guts and bolts posted:

You wanna talk about meta-warping updates on the horizon, the TIE Defender titles are it.

Good. The Defender deserves time as OP bullshit considering it's the original Star Wars OP Bullshit fighter.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:45

enigmahfc: Oct 10, 2003; EFF TEE DUB!!
EFF TEE DUB!!

Chill la Chill posted:

At the same time, it's also a reason to not vehemently post about somebody being wrong too. Look at the magic thread - every time someone's wrong people are vicious at attacking it. I see it at the LGSs too. It's a huge reason why the community is toxic and lovely.

I think that's one of the reasons I like X-Wing, at least in my area. People are pretty chill and friendly and inviting. People talk strategy, what works and what doesn't, but you rarely get someone analyzing the fun out of the game. There are still people who do the analysis, no doubt, they just don't textbook people into submission. I feel that keeps things from being toxic around here. I mean, there are couple of guys around here that can ruin the fun, but they tend to stop showing up or tone it down pretty quickly.

Then there as the guy that Rage quit during a store tournament because he felt everyone, "was just using metalists!" (he was 0-3 at that point...)

Corbeau posted:

Good. The Defender deserves time as OP bullshit considering it's the original Star Wars OP Bullshit fighter.

I want Imperial Veterans so I can put Lightning Reflexes and Twin Ion Mk II on Tomax (not Xamot) and spin around like an epileptic butterfly.

enigmahfc fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Feb 11, 2016

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:47

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Corbeau posted:

Good. The Defender deserves time as OP bullshit considering it's the original Star Wars OP Bullshit fighter.

but it's ugly

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:50

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

There is only one ugly TIE and that is the TIE Phantom :colbert:

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:53

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

The Lord of Hats posted:

There is only one ugly TIE and that is the TIE Phantom

You and me, we're gonna fuckin' duel to the death, my dude

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:54

Corbeau: Sep 13, 2010; Jack of All Trades

guts and bolts posted:

but it's ugly

The Lord of Hats posted:

There is only one ugly TIE and that is the TIE Phantom

The TIE Bomber is the ugliest TIE by a large margin. Even the Punisher looks better than the TIE Bomber.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:55

AndyElusive: Jan 7, 2007

oh shut up.

The ugliest TIEs aren't even in the game yet.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:58

Jeb Bush 2012: Apr 4, 2007; A mathematician, like a painter or poet, is a maker of patterns. If his patterns are more permanent than theirs, it is because they are made with ideas.

The bomber is okay but not great. The punisher looks like what you'd get out of a deviantart community for tie bomber enthusiasts

# ? Feb 11, 2016 22:59

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

AndyElusive posted:

oh shut up.

The ugliest TIEs aren't even in the game yet.

loving incredible

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:00

smug jeebus: Oct 26, 2008

I gotta hate on the Phantom too. It looks like it was designed by someone who had never actually seen a TIE, and was going off a printed description.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:01

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

guts and bolts posted:

I agree. There are very few cards outside of some really weird EPTs that are 1 point and also super-duper bad. Plus, again, this means Scum can do some potentially cool poo poo further on.

I'm just trying to be as objective as possible. Like, scroll back three pages or so and I'm already thinking of janky ways to run Boba and do fun poo poo. It's when this happens:

... that I decided to pump the brakes a little on the crazy hype train.

FWIW, I was specifically referring to Palp Decimators, which are wildly common in my local meta and both a much easier chance to get crits on, and much more likely to survive the experience for several turns.

And yeah, first blush was a bit OTT.

I've basically come round to the conclusion that the real benefit of Boba is as more of a deterrent/control on your opponent's list and movement, than as a card that's actually likely to get to trigger. Like Tactician - most times I've run it, it's not actually triggered, but it's made my opponents do stupid stuff to avoid it.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:02

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

enigmahfc posted:

I think that's one of the reasons I like X-Wing, at least in my area. People are pretty chill and friendly and inviting. People talk strategy, what works and what doesn't, but you rarely get someone analyzing the fun out of the game. There are still people who do the analysis, no doubt, they just don't textbook people into submission. I feel that keeps things from being toxic around here. I mean, there are couple of guys around here that can ruin the fun, but they tend to stop showing up or tone it down pretty quickly.

Oh yeah. We do need number crunchers (lol I am one but don't talk about it aside from school and future work), but it's boring to talk about. There's a guy who writes articles on TC who lives in the nova area somewhere and he's weird and talks about his articles and is generally very dry. Same with Bob, who I met at a regionals last year and runs the list juggler site. They talk about stats and stuff which just turns my brain off but they are nice enough.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:08

The Lord of Hats: Aug 22, 2010; Hello, yes! Is being very good day for posting, no?

guts and bolts posted:

You and me, we're gonna fuckin' duel to the death, my dude

There are two components to a proper TIE: Spheres (or tubes with hemispheres on the end) and panels. The Phantom gets the panels right, but that cockpit is terrible.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:09

Chill la Chill: Jul 2, 2007; Don't lose your gay

Corbeau posted:

The TIE Bomber is the ugliest TIE by a large margin. Even the Punisher looks better than the TIE Bomber.

No actually the bomber looks v cute and it has little mandibles in the front :3:

for uhhhh

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:12

Poopy Palpy: Jun 10, 2000; Im da fwiggin Poopy Palpy XD

AndyElusive posted:

oh shut up.

The ugliest TIEs aren't even in the game yet.

I want this guy because it'd be a small base ship with a hardpoint slot and energy.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:13

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

Official TIE Ranking Chart
S Rank:
TIE Defender

A Rank:
TIE Fighter
TIE Interceptor

B Rank:
TIE Phantom
TIE Advanced
TIE Bomber

C Rank:
TIE/fo
TIE Advanced Prototype

F Rank:
TIE Punisher

Definitely completely objective and official. Definitely.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:13

Koopa Kid: Aug 21, 2007

Poopy Palpy posted:

I want this guy because it'd be a small base ship with a hardpoint slot and energy.

I want to see it made because I want to see how they'd manage to attach a peg to its centre of mass.

e: All TIEs are good, the real offender is the Decimator

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:15

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

thespaceinvader posted:

FWIW, I was specifically referring to Palp Decimators, which are wildly common in my local meta and both a much easier chance to get crits on, and much more likely to survive the experience for several turns.

And yeah, first blush was a bit OTT.

I've basically come round to the conclusion that the real benefit of Boba is as more of a deterrent/control on your opponent's list and movement, than as a card that's actually likely to get to trigger. Like Tactician - most times I've run it, it's not actually triggered, but it's made my opponents do stupid stuff to avoid it.

Hey, man, I totally did not want to play call-out cop, and I really should have just not engaged. You've given me plenty of helpful advice in this thread so I straight up apologize for not blank-quoting you and anyone else. Not my intention. For what it's worth, I don't think overreacting to how cool something looks is itself bad - I do it all the time, typically with Street Fighter related poo poo, and then I try to wrap my head around it after the fact.

What bothers me is when people try to have their cake and eat it, too. Like if you only play for funsies that's fine, but don't get obnoxious with talking about how this fun thing you're hype about now totally wrecks this list or that concept or whatever. I get that "tryhard" is a pejorative for some reason, but the point of the game is to try to win. You can have fun while still losing, and you might value fluff or a theme more than winning, but the game is still about trying to win or there's no game. Everyone weighs upgrades and ships before plugging them into a list. Strategy games like X-Wing aren't the same as just throwing the ball around in the backyard, because you don't have to select a glove with different strengths and weaknesses and calibrate your arm strength and add up the points that those adjustments cost beforehand and poo poo. Pretending that you just "threw" Crack Shot into a swarm, for example, is pretty disingenuous. You planned it and slotted it in after considering other options.

Hype trains create a player, who has been referenced before in this thread and is in my local shop area, who can charitably be called frustrating to play against. He gets crazy hype about new content and insists on playing thematic lists and fluffy stuff, and that's fine! But he also joins store leagues and championships and he straight up gets mad if you play a "meta" list, and he takes a moral victory because he has "honor." People who overanalyze for competition's sake don't create the rage-quit-because-people-play-meta-lists player, pointless echo chamber hype trains do that, so I'm probably over-wary about the whole thing.

On-topic:

StuG Jeebus posted:

I gotta hate on the Phantom too. It looks like it was designed by someone who had never actually seen a TIE, and was going off a printed description.

You and me are also dueling to death, name the time and place

EDIT: you gotta be squidding me with this

Improbable Lobster posted:

S Rank:
TIE Defender

B Rank:
TIE Phantom

C Rank:
TIE/fo

okay let's make it an even three mortal kombats, it's time to fite

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:17

Icon Of Sin: Dec 26, 2008

AndyElusive posted:

oh shut up.

The ugliest TIEs aren't even in the game yet.

gently caress those tough little bastards :mad:

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:19

Some Numbers: Sep 28, 2006; "LET'S GET DOWN TO WORK!!"

Phantom is awesome, Defender is awesome, stop arguing.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:20

I AM THE MOON: Dec 21, 2012

its okay about the x7. when rebel veterens gives x wings 4 dice and a bonus mod slot and e wings infinite target locks it will all balance out

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:22

kingcom: Jun 23, 2012

Improbable Lobster posted:

Official TIE Ranking Chart
S Rank:
TIE Defender

A Rank:
TIE Fighter
TIE Interceptor

B Rank:
TIE Phantom
TIE Advanced
TIE Bomber

C Rank:
TIE/fo
TIE Advanced Prototype

F Rank:
TIE Punisher

Definitely completely objective and official. Definitely.

Swap Phantom and Advanced Prototype over and you got yourself an accurate list hth. I dont know why the /fo is on that. The paint scheme is fine ?

Also they said that the Syck is definitely a ship they're going to be fixing at some point right? Would adding a free crew mod upgrade (must cost x points or less) seems like its built to fix up that ship and combo with a bunch of crew out this wave.

kingcom fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Feb 11, 2016

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:28

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

I AM THE MOON posted:

its okay about the x7. when rebel veterens gives x wings 4 dice and a bonus mod slot and e wings infinite target locks it will all balance out

My actual ideas for T-65 fixes - since I heard that FFG said the Integrated Astromech is not "the" T-65 fix, and they have some planned - is to just give us a pair of titles.

RED FIVE
_{TITLE. X-WING ONLY.}
Increase your agility value by 1. You cannot equip this card if your pilot skill is "5" or lower.
(0)

I'm not sure how to word it so that the T-70 can't use it, but the goal here is to make the X-Wing better in many cases while making the title unique and PS-locked, so that you can't just miniswarm with Rookie Pilots having 3 green dice and Biggs, who's pilot ability is insane with more agility, can't equip it. It also gives a significant boost specifically to Luke Skywalker, and... the title is called Red Five, so.

ROGUE LEADER
_{TITLE. X-WING ONLY.}
After executing a green maneuver, you may perform a free Boost action.
(0)

Works with BB-8, improves the otherwise-terrible action economy of our T-65Bs, is unique? I don't know.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:29

Panzeh: Nov 27, 2006; "..The high ground"

guts and bolts posted:

My actual ideas for T-65 fixes - since I heard that FFG said the Integrated Astromech is not "the" T-65 fix, and they have some planned - is to just give us a pair of titles.

People take way more than was actually said about that interview. FFG said they would wait and see what Integrated Astromech did but that it wasn't necessarily the end of improvements for the T-65.

That being said, I think Boba, 4-lom, and Zuckuss are all pointed correctly and FFG has done some really interesting design things with wave 8, particularly in scum. They've come a long way.

Attacking upgrade cards is something that was a lot more common in Star Trek Attack Wing, and probably not a terrible idea so it's nice to see something doing that here.

P.S- a spice runner with TLT and Dengar is really really efficient.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:34

Tekopo: Oct 24, 2008; When you see it, you'll shit yourself.

My favourite TIEs are the Bomber and Defender and Veterans is a gift from heaven as far as I'm concerned. I will fight to the death anyone that thinks the Bomber is ugly. The Phantom is ugly due to the cockpit and the Punisher is hidious.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:36

Improbable Lobster: Jan 6, 2012; "From each according to his ability" said Ares. It sounded like a quotation.; Buglord

kingcom posted:

Swap Phantom and Advanced Prototype over and you got yourself an accurate list hth. I dont know why the /fo is on that. The paint scheme is fine ?

Also they said that the Syck is definitely a ship they're going to be fixing at some point right? Would adding a free crew mod upgrade (must cost x points or less) seems like its built to fix up that ship and combo with a bunch of crew out this wave.

The /fo is low because it's just Black TIE. It's there and that's about it.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:37

guts and bolts: May 16, 2015; Have you heard the Good News?

Panzeh posted:

People take way more than was actually said about that interview. FFG said they would wait and see what Integrated Astromech did but that it wasn't necessarily the end of improvements for the T-65.

That being said, I think Boba, 4-lom, and Zuckuss are all pointed correctly and FFG has done some really interesting design things with wave 8, particularly in scum. They've come a long way.

Attacking upgrade cards is something that was a lot more common in Star Trek Attack Wing, and probably not a terrible idea so it's nice to see something doing that here.

P.S- a spice runner with TLT and Dengar is really really efficient.

I would have flipped poo poo if Attanni Mindlink hadn't been faction- locked. Poe with action economy is sexy. I'm sad.

I think we got a lot of awesome upgrades in Wave 8, and even those that aren't strictly incredible competitively are at least fun. Some are clunky and boring (Gonk!) but otoh you have Boba suicide bombings, Dengar crew who is legit terrifying, Guidance Chips to validate ordnance maybe?, and Kanan Jarrus, who is super-duper attractive on Han with PTL.

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:41

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# ? May 16, 2024 18:07

kingcom: Jun 23, 2012

Tekopo posted:

I will fight to the death anyone that thinks the Bomber is ugly.

gently caress yeah!

# ? Feb 11, 2016 23:41

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