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I've been using my Victornox chef's knife for a few months now and it's not cutting like it used to. First-time knife owner here. After reading the OP I still need a bit of guidance since I don't want to kill my knife, should I go for a honing steel (smooth I think) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UFV9SC) first and if that doesn't help the problem then buy something to sharpen it with?
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Feb 11, 2016 00:49
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GobiasIndustries posted:I've been using my Victornox chef's knife for a few months now and it's not cutting like it used to. First-time knife owner here. After reading the OP I still need a bit of guidance since I don't want to kill my knife, should I go for a honing steel (smooth I think) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UFV9SC) first and if that doesn't help the problem then buy something to sharpen it with? You will need to actually sharpen, not just hone, the knife if you've been using it for months. Unless you only cook once a week or something. FogHelmut posted:gently caress it, going full retard. Suisin High-Carbon Steel Gyutou. Which size are you planning on getting? If you're going for 210mm, I might do the Suisin because I personally feel like the straight french profile doesn't work as well for short knives. The togiharu has good reviews including a big thumbs up from cook's illustrated / america's test kitchen. Though I really don't know about them and knives. They're the ones that put people on to the cheap Victorinox as a good buy for first timers. But they also have poo poo recommendations for sharpening (v-type drag sharpeners) and a lot of what they're rating the knives for is out-of-the-box sharpness. (Also are you specifically buying from Korin because the gift cards work there or something? Another option for carbon that's got a good rep is Fujiwara sold here and here.)
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Feb 11, 2016 02:03
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Klyith posted:You will need to actually sharpen, not just hone, the knife if you've been using it for months. Unless you only cook once a week or something. I gave up on the BB&B gift cards. My wife can go buy her $250 duvet. I read a few places that the Suisin was pretty awesome, and Korin was just the first link on Google and their price looked decent and they sharpen things. I was also planning on 240mm because I read somewhere its a better equivalent than the 210mm to a western knife. But I really don't know if that's necessarily true? I'm not entirely sold on the carbon steel. Patinas are neat but I might not love the idea of rubbing it down with oil after every use. But if its super ultra change my life sharp, then lets go for it. I'm sure there are many answers to this, but what is the best in the $100-$130 range? I'd be more comfortable with the more Germanic profile I think, but it doesn't have to be full German style. Is it even worth buying in that range? I could understand if you say this $50 knife is just as good, might as well not upgrade until you're in the $300 range.
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Feb 11, 2016 02:45
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GobiasIndustries posted:I've been using my Victornox chef's knife for a few months now and it's not cutting like it used to. First-time knife owner here. After reading the OP I still need a bit of guidance since I don't want to kill my knife, should I go for a honing steel (smooth I think) (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UFV9SC) first and if that doesn't help the problem then buy something to sharpen it with? Yes, you should hone your knife. You actually should do that before you use it each time. But yes, you may need to actually have it sharpened. (Or do it yourself, but if you're asking this question, I'm guessing you're not looking to DIY it.)
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Feb 11, 2016 03:13
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Is a Victorinox Fibrox what the Forschner line became? Because those knife are God damned beasts for the price.
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Feb 11, 2016 03:24
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guppy posted:Yes, you should hone your knife. You actually should do that before you use it each time. But yes, you may need to actually have it sharpened. (Or do it yourself, but if you're asking this question, I'm guessing you're not looking to DIY it.) No I'm looking to DIY, that's why I asked if I should look into sharpening stuff in my post. This is the first knife I've owned (previously used parents / roommates stuff) so I'm learning here.
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Feb 11, 2016 03:33
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GobiasIndustries posted:No I'm looking to DIY, that's why I asked if I should look into sharpening stuff in my post. This is the first knife I've owned (previously used parents / roommates stuff) so I'm learning here. Oh, sorry. Yes, if it's been several months your knife will probably benefit from sharpening; once or twice a year is probably fine if you're not a professional. The OP goes into a fair amount of detail about home sharpening options. I have personally bought a few sharpening devices -- DuoSharp, knockoff Edge Pro -- and still find it kind of intimidating and am not entirely sure I wouldn't be better off having mine professionally sharpened. Regardless, you should also buy a hone and use it regularly before you start prepping.
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Feb 11, 2016 03:38
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My best friend is an eagle scout and I use him for my knives. If he isn't available I have a guy who is super reasonable. Basically, if your knife is worth anything and you want a good edge, take it to a pro. Learning how to properly sharpen a knife is a God damned long process. I'm 31 and I've been at it my whole life and still can't put an edge on a knife like my eagle scout buddy.
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Feb 11, 2016 04:19
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Captain Log posted:Basically, if your knife is worth anything and you want a good edge, take it to a pro. Learning how to properly sharpen a knife is a God damned long process. I'm 31 and I've been at it my whole life and still can't put an edge on a knife like my eagle scout buddy. For beginners who are consistently having difficulty: pay attention to your wrists. You're probably twisting them as you're going through the sharpening motion. Pretend your wrists are in a cast, and try doing everything from your shoulders. Hold the blade with both hands. Use your thumbs, against the spine of the blade, to help keep a consistent angle by keeping a consistent distance between the spine of the blade and the sharpening surface. Keep it up on one side until you raise a burr on the other side, then repeat the process for the other side. That's pretty much all you need to be able to do unless you want to get into stropping, hollow grinding, convex profiling, and other poo poo like that.
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Feb 11, 2016 04:37
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What's really helped me for getting a consistent angle is to not focus on the angle. Focus on the distance of the back of the knife above the stone. For my nakiri, for example, with a 15 degree edge, the spine should be half an inch above the stone. It's more difficult on more curved knives that don't have consistent blade heights, but you can mentally set a couple of heights along the blade and transition between them. When the blade height is half as much, for example, you should be half the distance above the stone.
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Feb 11, 2016 05:03
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I apologize for the dumbass question but after 50 pages of skimming posts I'm still not entirely sure... Why is it bad news to throw a knife in the dishwasher? It's hard enough to catch roommates beating my chef knife into a frozen block of cheese against the counter or something equally ridiculous, but I'm just not sure what is going to be hosed up by a dishwasher cycle..? 
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Feb 11, 2016 05:19
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FogHelmut posted:I was also planning on 240mm because I read somewhere its a better equivalent than the 210mm to a western knife. But I really don't know if that's necessarily true? 240mm is a pretty great length IMO, because it's small enough to fit on the task-size cutting boards most people have. Big chef's knives rule if you have the kitchen space for a equally big cutting board and work area. FogHelmut posted:I'm not entirely sold on the carbon steel. Patinas are neat but I might not love the idea of rubbing it down with oil after every use. But if its super ultra change my life sharp, then lets go for it. While the patina is still developing you might use a little oil between uses, and you can help it along by being choosy about which ingredients you chop with it (avoid tomatoes). Accept that it's not gonna be shiny silver. I'm not sure a carbon steel will super ultra change your life, versus a high-hardness japanese stainless like the tojiro dp. The carbon steels do have advantages -- lots of people say they are much easier to hone & sharpen vs a hard stainless. But you can't be lazy with them.
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Feb 11, 2016 05:46
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coyo7e posted:I apologize for the dumbass question but after 50 pages of skimming posts I'm still not entirely sure... Why is it bad news to throw a knife in the dishwasher? It tends to bash them against other stuff, which bends or chips the cutting blade, and it could hurt a wood handle. If you've got carbon steel, it could rust being kept wet for that long. That's pretty much it. EDIT: For a stainless knife, other than the wood handle maybe getting hurt (and even that shouldn't be a problem with a good, sealed handle, I'd think), it won't do any permanent damage. It'll sharpen right out, no real issues. Definitely bad form, and it'll dull your knives right quick, but I wouldn't worry about actually breaking the knife.
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Feb 11, 2016 05:47
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coyo7e posted:I apologize for the dumbass question but after 50 pages of skimming posts I'm still not entirely sure... Why is it bad news to throw a knife in the dishwasher? Dishwasher detergents have abrasives in them, which will wear down the edge. Not as bad as cutting on a glass cutting board or chopping frozen cheese though. If it's a carbon steel blade rather than stainless the dishwasher will also gently caress up the patina. edit ^^^ good point about knocking against other stuff can cause damage, but even if the knife is in there alone the detergent is still bad for it. Klyith fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 05:56
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Klyith posted:Dishwasher detergents have abrasives in them, which will wear down the edge. Not as bad as cutting on a glass cutting board or chopping frozen cheese though. If it's a carbon steel blade rather than stainless the dishwasher will also gently caress up the patina. Really? That's pretty cool, and I guess I'd never noticed before. I don't actually have a dishwasher right now, that's my excuse.
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Feb 11, 2016 06:10
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I will say my sister always washed her chef knife in the dishwasher until about 6 months ago when it broke from the tang rusting through.
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Feb 11, 2016 06:13
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Captain Log posted:Is a Victorinox Fibrox what the Forschner line became? Yes, they used to be called Victorinox Forschner.
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Feb 11, 2016 19:18
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FogHelmut posted:I gave up on the BB&B gift cards. My wife can go buy her $250 duvet. I read a few places that the Suisin was pretty awesome, and Korin was just the first link on Google and their price looked decent and they sharpen things. I was also planning on 240mm because I read somewhere its a better equivalent than the 210mm to a western knife. But I really don't know if that's necessarily true? In that price range I'd probably be looking at either the Kohetsu Blue #2(stainless-clad, so easier maintenance, handle is pretty rough) or the Kagayaki CarboNext(semi-stainless, sharpens and takes an edge very similar to carbon but is less reactive). The CarboNext is basically a clone of the Kikuichi TKC which costs literally twice as much, the big difference being that the fit and finish won't be as nice and the edge won't be as sharp out of the box. If you know how to sharpen, though, out of the box edge isn't a big deal, imo. You could also look at a Fujiwara FKH for cheaper at $82 for a 240mm. It sharpens easily and takes a nice aggressive edge, though edge retention won't blow you away. The only thing with the Fujiwara is I've heard a lot of people complain about the steel being really reactive, while some say it's fine once it patinas. I've got a FKH sujihiki and it's hardly reactive at all while my iron-clad knife was way more reactive until it settled down, so ymmv. There's also the FKM, which is their stainless equivalent, and a good number of people prefer it to the Tojiro DP. People really overstate how much effort it is to take care of carbon knives. I've literally never oiled either of my carbon knives. You just need to occasionally give a quick rinse or wipe on a wet rag when cutting a lot of acidic stuff in one go and make sure you rinse and wipe dry when you're all done. In this price range you usually either get a good performing blade with rough fit and finish or a so-so performing blade with nice fit and finish. If that's what you're set on I'd get either of the two I mentioned first. If you can stretch your budget to the $200-300 bracket you'll start getting knives that have impeccable fit and finish and unrivaled performance, though you might want to wait until you have a better idea of what you're really looking for in a knife (e.g. blade profile, height, laser vs midweight vs mighty, etc). Thoht fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Feb 11, 2016 |
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Feb 11, 2016 22:34
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Klyith posted:Dishwasher detergents have abrasives in them, which will wear down the edge. Not as bad as cutting on a glass cutting board or chopping frozen cheese though. If it's a carbon steel blade rather than stainless the dishwasher will also gently caress up the patina. 
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Feb 12, 2016 00:51
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SubG posted:Sharpening things is a skill which was mastered by your primitive apelike ancestors a couple million years before the evolution of anatomically modern humans. If they can master it, you can too. There really isn't any `trick' to it, it's just moving the blade across the stone while keeping the angle consistent. That takes some practice, but it's not a particularly complicated manual skill---certainly not as complex as dozens of other tasks you need to learn how to do in the kitchen. I bet I can sharpen a knife better than your average bear. But I've been spoiled by being best friends with an Eagle Scout who can make a lovely pocket knife a shaving level sharp blade. Some things I leave to the experts when I have the option.
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Feb 12, 2016 05:39
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Captain Log posted:I bet I can sharpen a knife better than your average bear. But I've been spoiled by being best friends with an Eagle Scout who can make a lovely pocket knife a shaving level sharp blade. Some things I leave to the experts when I have the option. Dude came looking for advice on how to do a very basic task for himself. If he wanted to bake a goddamn baguette or something it would be terrible advice to tell him not to bother and just let the professionals do it instead, and I don't see any reason why knife sharpening should be any different. Someone comes here looking to learn, let 'em learn.
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Feb 12, 2016 12:34
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SubG posted:If he wanted to bake a goddamn baguette or something it would be terrible advice to tell him not to bother and just let the professionals do it instead, ... Maybe a baguette isn't the best example.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:13
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If stones seem too advanced, the Spyderco Sharpmaker makes it really easy to sharpen things. You're mostly limited to 15 and 20 degrees, and it's a little extra work for longer knives. But its a lot better than those pull through things and dead simple to use. Costs a bit more than a stone though.
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Feb 12, 2016 18:22
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so I have a 600-1200 duosharp stone and green stropping compound. I'm thinking of adding a single finer stone to get that extra sharpness. Would something like a 6000 king water stone be a good choice? Also, is the Tojiro DP the obvious first economy buy in japanese knives? I'm in Canada an willing to spend up to 100$ or so. I'd prefer not getting a carbon knife if possible but I'm not completely against the idea. Might also go for the CCK cleaver if the shop in Toronto wants to ship me one, but I'd prefer a japanese Gyuto or Santoku if there is any reason getting one over a gyuto considering I have a chef knife that I like already
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Feb 12, 2016 18:36
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Does anyone have the link to the most popular/best Edge Pro knockoff? The real deal is hell of expensive.
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Feb 12, 2016 19:10
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Wow, thanks for all the info and back-and-forth, all! I've gone ahead and ordered the smooth honing steel and I'll probably take my knife to get it professionally sharpened this time but I'd definitely like to learn how to do it myself since even though it's only a couple dollars for one knife in my area, that adds up over time if I continue to purchase nicer knifes. Plus I like being as self-sufficient as possible.CrazyLittle posted:... Maybe a baguette isn't the best example. Yeah I can't make a baguette for poo poo yet either
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Feb 12, 2016 19:19
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The Midniter posted:Does anyone have the link to the most popular/best Edge Pro knockoff? The real deal is hell of expensive. this is what I have had for three years or so, and I can put shaving edges on anything with it. Mine came with angle setting markings that were WAY off, so measure to set it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Professiona...IYAAOSwDNdVyb~v
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Feb 12, 2016 21:44
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GobiasIndustries posted:Wow, thanks for all the info and back-and-forth, all! I've gone ahead and ordered the smooth honing steel and I'll probably take my knife to get it professionally sharpened this time but I'd definitely like to learn how to do it myself since even though it's only a couple dollars for one knife in my area, that adds up over time if I continue to purchase nicer knifes. Plus I like being as self-sufficient as possible. It's not nearly as hard as it seems either. Doing a perfect job to get razor sharp is quite hard and requires the proper stones, but just getting a good very sharp edge is quite easy. It took me 2-3 times to get an edge that is good enough for my needs with only a 600-1200 stone and stropping compound on some random piece of wood. Now I just touch up the knives with the 1200 and then strop whenever I feel it's not sharp enough. I definitely don't get my knives scary sharp and a good Professional would obviously do better, but I think I get it at least as sharp as the cheap (and lovely) place I used to go to get them sharpened. Definitely a million times sharper than the knives 99% of people use at home. KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 22:07
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CrazyLittle posted:... Maybe a baguette isn't the best example.
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Feb 12, 2016 22:16
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GobiasIndustries posted:Wow, thanks for all the info and back-and-forth, all! I've gone ahead and ordered the smooth honing steel and I'll probably take my knife to get it professionally sharpened this time but I'd definitely like to learn how to do it myself since even though it's only a couple dollars for one knife in my area, that adds up over time if I continue to purchase nicer knifes. Plus I like being as self-sufficient as possible. The real advantage in my opinion to sharpening yourself is the fact that you can do it more often. Taking it to a professional, you'll at most do it every couple months, right? I usually sharpen my knives once a week. Because I do it so frequently and don't let them wear down, it's three minutes maybe on the 6000 grit and strop to get back to absurdly sharp territory, and removes basically no material. Regular minor maintenance is better than occasional sharpening, by far.
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Feb 13, 2016 16:48
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KingColliwog posted:so I have a 600-1200 duosharp stone and green stropping compound. I'm thinking of adding a single finer stone to get that extra sharpness. Would something like a 6000 king water stone be a good choice? I find the King 6000 to be okay, but not great, depending on what you're sharpening. Results are fine, but the feeling of blade on stone I find bleh. I get why the Tojiro DP is one of the default recommendations for entry level Japanese knives, but I found its performance quite underwhelming out of the box - mine dragged and wedged much more than I found acceptable and, crazy as it seems, my food service specials outperformed it stock versus stock. I've taken mine to the stones and reworked it for a couple hours (not including refinishing, which takes a significant amount of time on top of that). It performs much, much better now. OOTB the sharpness was good, but the edge was flawed (low hanging heel, overgrind in edge) but pretty easily fixable if you can sharpen. The choil and bolster needed easing, which is also easy to do. The often criticized blockiness of the handle doesn't bother me at all, but I do wish the fit and finish where the bolster and handle meet were better. All of them seem to have gaps, some worse than others, where they meet which is filled with something, usually not so neatly. I haven't done so on mine, but you should be able to fix this (if you care to) with some minor effort. The affordable price point makes it a good knife to learn some basic maintenance/fixes on. But fixing the performance issues I had with mine is way beyond what the majority of people are going to be willing to do. I haven't tried out any samples other than my own, so it's very possible that mine was just kind of a dud.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:32
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SubG posted:Nah, that's the reason I used it as an example. There's a definite knack to it, and not everyone picks it up immediately. But it isn't like if you don't make a perfect baguette the first time you end up with your kitchen in flames or something like that. You have a baguette that isn't quite perfect. But if someone came into GWS and asked for advice on baguette making I don't think anyone would suggest that you should just throw up your arms and admit that it's impossible and it's just a job for the pros. I guess I misrepresented myself judging by the salt in these posts. I sharpen my knives, I've sharpened knives since I was seven, I prefer to let professionals do it when the option is available for my best knives. If you are a home cook with crazy nice knives that don't get used a ton? (When compared to people that use them eight hours a day for work) You might prefer three bucks to the local knife sharper than investing $30 - $100+ bucks on a sharpening kit and a skill to learn.
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Feb 15, 2016 05:04
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Captain Log posted:I guess I misrepresented myself judging by the salt in these posts. The person that started this latest sharpening discussion was asking about a Victorinox, which isn't a "crazy nice" knife. Earlier you made it sound like some impossible task to learn, so don't even bother starting. Not everybody wants/needs to get to whatever "pro" level you're talking about. It didn't sound like the question was about anything more than wanting to learn some basic sharpening skills. There are lots of so called professionals out there who are poo poo anyway. If someone wants to give sharpening a go, why don't you take your 20+ years of experience and try to help them learn instead of discouraging it?
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Feb 15, 2016 16:21
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Scott808 posted:The person that started this latest sharpening discussion was asking about a Victorinox, which isn't a "crazy nice" knife. To each their own I guess.
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Feb 17, 2016 03:29
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Just ordered my first Gyuto kind of already looking at my next knife purchase. Honesuki's knives look great and fun to try. Considering pretty much the only deboning I do is chicken and other birds, would this be a good alternative to a traditional boning knife? I already own a paring, chef, gyuto and decent bread knife Scott808 posted:I find the King 6000 to be okay, but not great, depending on what you're sharpening. Results are fine, but the feeling of blade on stone I find bleh. Thanks a lot for your answer. I ended up ordering the Tojiro because it was pretty cheap and after reading reviews everywhere I figure I'll be fine with the minor fit and finish problems. I'll try to fix them as best as I can with help from this thread. OOTB sharpness is not a huge issue for me since i like sharpening my knives and I want to work on my technique anyway. I ordered a simple angle guide at the same time to see if it can help me work on my technique/proper angle.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:52
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I attended a butchery class last week and they made me feel like a dunce for owning a relatively nice knife (I have this one http://shun.kaiusaltd.com/knives/knife/classic-hollow-ground-santoku ). I use this knife all the time because its the right size and shape, and I have some cheaper knives for other purposes. The head butcher explained the most expensive knife they use would be no more then $30 AUD or there abouts. They had a barely used box of them in the store room and the one he was using was clearly old because of its handle. I was surprised to hear the tool people would associate most with a butcher most can be had for very cheap. He honed it after virtually every cut. He used a hand or band saw to cut through bone. The class was excellent and we got to take the knife we used home. It's not a nice looking knife but it's certainly sharp. But I still managed to do this while putting it in the dishwasher   I eventually rationalised my nice knife by telling myself how good it looks and also I am more likely to give a poo poo about it. That is my knife story, thanks for watching.
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Mar 1, 2016 13:08
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I think you'll find that professionals often have a very different set of needs for their tools than amateurs in pretty much all applications. A lot of that comes down to being willing (and able) to do routine daily maintenance and that while the amateur may do a task occasionally the pro is often performing that task all day, every day. I think the thread, and all of the more reputable references, have absolutely no problem recommending 20-30 dollar Victorinox Forschners for pretty much any kitchen task. e: Also you linked a santoku and are showing us a boning knife. They are different tools with different jobs to do.
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Mar 1, 2016 14:18
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I wasn't trying to compare knives, just saying I did feel silly paying a lot of money for one. It was shortlived I should point out that he let gravity do most of the work which was interesting, and if the meat is cut in the right spot it should be possible to only make small occasional cuts while pulling it apart along the sinew, so the knife may not be getting that much of a work out anyway. Sort of offtopic:I have a new found appreciation for the technical skill required. When you see a well presented cut on display it would have take quite a while to learn, especially frenching things like ribeye and lamb shank.
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Mar 1, 2016 14:45
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That's really the most divine lessen to not dishwash knives.
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Mar 1, 2016 15:03
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I don't normally but this one is machine washable  Also I am pretty sure the only reason knife manufacturers reccomend against dishwahers is because the blade edge may be struck by other objects and cause damage more then anything else. Edit: I wash my $5 Victorinox fruit and veg knife in the dishwasher too, I'm bad at looking after my knives I guess lilbeefer fucked around with this message at 15:19 on Mar 1, 2016 |
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Mar 1, 2016 15:13
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