Linux: is the machine running fedora or just the user

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: is the machine running fedora or just the user

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Wheany: Mar 17, 2006; Spinya^{ha^{ha^haha}ha}ha_{ha_{ha_haha}ha}ha!; Doctor Rope

Celexi posted:

it isn't about the base rate but that cpu fluctuations or intensive cpu use add a poo poo ton of input lag. if you never did anything that made that happen is because you probably never did anything that stressed the CPU, unless it were to be a usb 3 keyboard or thunderbolt/firewire with direct bus access but that doesn't exist.

unless you like having input lag when working or editing i guess

holy poo poo, you're doing exactly the same as audiophiles complaining about jitter with digital signals

the cpu fluctuations caused input lag, this would not have happened if i had a 20 year old computer that had ps/2 ports :qq:

# ? Feb 12, 2016 18:07

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# ? May 27, 2024 19:59

fritz: Jul 26, 2003

does ps2 still have that behavior where if you unplug a device you have to reboot the whole machine b/c if you plug it back in the system won't realize its there

# ? Feb 12, 2016 18:08

Lightbulb Out: Apr 28, 2006; slack jawed yokel

fritz posted:

does ps2 still have that behavior where if you unplug a device you have to reboot the whole machine b/c if you plug it back in the system won't realize its there

largely, yes. ps/2 isn't hot pluggable.

# ? Feb 12, 2016 18:14

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

Wheany posted:

holy poo poo, you're doing exactly the same as audiophiles complaining about jitter with digital signals

the cpu fluctuations caused input lag, this would not have happened if i had a 20 year old computer that had ps/2 ports

i honestly can't remember the last time i had something like the desktop cursor freeze up because of high cpu usage. maybe back on win xp with a single core after setting a process to realtime? i just remember it was a long time ago.

if an application is lagging it's probably just not running the os event loop enough.

# ? Feb 12, 2016 18:32

Jerry Bindle: May 16, 2003

put your mouse on a crystal mouse pad to solve signal integrity issues. please call me for a quote and free crystal mouse pad consultation.

# ? Feb 12, 2016 19:11

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

the year of docker on the desktop

# ? Feb 12, 2016 19:24

theultimo: Aug 2, 2004; An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.; Pillbug

PS/2 and serial connections have a warmer feel then usb

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:14

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

PS/2 can support N-key rollover while no USB HID keyboard in the history of USB HID keyboards has ever implemented anything other than the USB HID Book Protocol keyboard which is limited to 6-key rollover.

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:18

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

Wheany posted:

holy poo poo, you're doing exactly the same as audiophiles complaining about jitter with digital signals

the cpu fluctuations caused input lag, this would not have happened if i had a 20 year old computer that had ps/2 ports

most modern workstations and desktops have ps/2 ports so you dont really need a 20 year old computer

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:21

theultimo: Aug 2, 2004; An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.; Pillbug

Celexi posted:

most modern workstations and desktops have ps/2 ports so you dont really need a 20 year old computer

Umm

Not in the past 5 years

Especially if your org is going to laptops

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:22

pram: Jun 10, 2001

Celexi posted:

usb has no direct bus access except USB 3 or thunderbolt, so regular usb can not send interrupts same way ps/2 does

same plug different types of water flowing on the pipes!!

one pipe is full of piss and the other poo poo

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:26

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

theultimo posted:

Umm

Not in the past 5 years

Especially if your org is going to laptops

well all modern ones i seen have, laptops yeah sure you need a keyboard lol

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:26

theultimo: Aug 2, 2004; An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.; Pillbug

Celexi posted:

well all modern ones i seen have, laptops yeah sure you need a keyboard lol

Laptops that never move and basically desktops yeah

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:29

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

http://www.alldea.si/media/uploads/slike/izdelki/Precision/T5810.pdf

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:29

Celexi: Nov 25, 2006; Slava Ukraini!

the precision workstation you can clearly see 2 ps/2 ports listed there

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:29

Broken Machine: Oct 22, 2010

this entire digression into the details of keyboard protocols is purestrain linux. the reason why I agreed with NBSD about it being possibly related to usb is due to how the drivers load while the comp is booting. if you are early in the boot sequence (for example, you're being prompted for the encryption key to unlock the root) you have drivers for input, but you do not have the full kernel loaded and are not there at the shell with the standard userland yet. And so you may find yourself being prompted to type some poo poo and find you have no keyboard

in those situations, plugging in a ps/2 keyboard if available may be preferable to janitoring your early boot process, or attempting to work with the devs to change the behavior

and yes that can and will happen with a modern system

lol at the discussion though

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:31

Soldier of Fortran: May 2, 2009

Broken Machine posted:

this entire digression into the details of keyboard protocols is purestrain linux. the reason why I agreed with NBSD about it being possibly related to usb is due to how the drivers load while the comp is booting. if you are early in the boot sequence (for example, you're being prompted for the encryption key to unlock the root) you have drivers for input, but you do not have the full kernel loaded and are not there at the shell with the standard userland yet. And so you may find yourself being prompted to type some poo poo and find you have no keyboard

in those situations, plugging in a ps/2 keyboard if available may be preferable to janitoring your early boot process, or attempting to work with the devs to change the behavior

and yes that can and will happen with a modern system

lol at the discussion though

lol. a "modern" system.

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:33

b0red: Apr 3, 2013

theultimo posted:

Laptops that never move and basically desktops yeah

lol thank god i haven't seen one of these in two years. nothing but problems if you try to dock or undock. You might as well reboot if you plan on taking it off the dock. so many xrandr scripts..

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:41

pram: Jun 10, 2001

my Bluetooth mouse works perfectly with OS X FYI

# ? Feb 12, 2016 20:41

VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE: Aug 1, 2004; whoa, what just happened here?; College Slice

until your mac forgets it has a bluetooth radio

and then you have to reset yourself

# ? Feb 12, 2016 22:15

theultimo: Aug 2, 2004; An RSS feed bot who makes questionable purchasing decisions.; Pillbug

broken clock opsec posted:

until your mac forgets it has a bluetooth radio

and then you have to reset yourself

I remember when you had to literally command line disable the Bluetooth or it would crash in an iBook g4

# ? Feb 12, 2016 22:16

eschaton: Mar 7, 2007; Don't you just hate when you wind up in a store with people who are in a socioeconomic class that is pretty obviously about two levels lower than your own?

Barnyard Protein posted:

put your mouse on a crystal mouse pad to solve signal integrity issues. please call me for a quote and free crystal mouse pad consultation.

no, just outline your mouse pad with green marker

# ? Feb 12, 2016 22:52

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

b0red posted:

lol thank god i haven't seen one of these in two years. nothing but problems if you try to dock or undock. You might as well reboot if you plan on taking it off the dock. so many xrandr scripts..

my thinkpad pri dock works absolutely perfectly to the point where I probably haven't plugged anything into the laptop usb ports in months :smuggo:

# ? Feb 12, 2016 23:35

pram: Jun 10, 2001

because, as we have determined itt, usb doesn't work on Linux

# ? Feb 13, 2016 00:16

Captain Foo: May 11, 2004; we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

pram posted:

because, as we have determined itt, usb doesn't work on Linux

neither does anything else

# ? Feb 13, 2016 00:42

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

this is true if your threshold for "works" is "there is literally no single device anywhere in the world where this has ever failed"

# ? Feb 13, 2016 00:57

pram: Jun 10, 2001

just reporting the facts here

# ? Feb 13, 2016 01:16

Truga: May 4, 2014; Lipstick Apathy

pseudorandom name posted:

PS/2 can support N-key rollover while no USB HID keyboard in the history of USB HID keyboards has ever implemented anything other than the USB HID Book Protocol keyboard which is limited to 6-key rollover.

The newest DAS keyboard allegedly supports n-key rollover without the PS/2 dongle now.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 01:35

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

Truga posted:

The newest DAS keyboard allegedly supports n-key rollover without the PS/2 dongle now.

without a lovely proprietary driver?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 01:58

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

it explicitly says no drivers

which makes sense because HID supports NKRO, but until now everybody bought the same off-the-shelf HID BP controller instead of designing their own

# ? Feb 13, 2016 02:00

ahmeni: May 1, 2005; It's one continuous form where hardware and software function in perfect unison, creating a new generation of iPhone that's better by any measure.; Grimey Drawer

pram posted:

my Bluetooth mouse works perfectly with OS X FYI

I have that known fuckin Bluetooth bug where sometimes it won't accept devices after sleeping until you click on the wifi menu
it was real bad in 10.10 but has gotten much better in 10.11

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:52

suck my woke dick: Oct 10, 2012; I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!

Put this cum-loving slave on ignore immediately!

pseudorandom name posted:

it explicitly says no drivers

which makes sense because HID supports NKRO, but until now everybody bought the same off-the-shelf HID BP controller instead of designing their own

neat

how many people do need nkro though? i'm typing on a unicomp with 2kro and it's needs suiting

e: just checked, apparently actually 4-6kro in practice with technically 2kro for certain key combinations, lol i didn't even notice

suck my woke dick fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:25

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

pseudorandom name posted:

it explicitly says no drivers

which makes sense because HID supports NKRO, but until now everybody bought the same off-the-shelf HID BP controller instead of designing their own

are they doing it correctly, or are they using a trick like reporting the keyboard as a hub with 20 other keyboards attached?

# ? Feb 13, 2016 15:48

Notorious b.s.d.: Jan 25, 2003; by Reene

blowfish posted:

neat

how many people do need nkro though? i'm typing on a unicomp with 2kro and it's needs suiting

e: just checked, apparently actually 4-6kro in practice with technically 2kro for certain key combinations, lol i didn't even notice

blind users need nkro to author braille

# ? Feb 13, 2016 18:50

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

The_Franz posted:

are they doing it correctly, or are they using a trick like reporting the keyboard as a hub with 20 other keyboards attached?

that would be hilarious, but I'm not going to buy a das keyboard to check

edit:

pre:

0x05, 0x01,        // Usage Page (Generic Desktop Ctrls)
0x09, 0x80,        // Usage (Sys Control)
0xA1, 0x01,        // Collection (Application)
0x85, 0x02,        //   Report ID (2)
0x09, 0x81,        //   Usage (Sys Power Down)
0x09, 0x82,        //   Usage (Sys Sleep)
0x09, 0x83,        //   Usage (Sys Wake Up)
0x15, 0x00,        //   Logical Minimum (0)
0x25, 0x01,        //   Logical Maximum (1)
0x75, 0x01,        //   Report Size (1)
0x95, 0x03,        //   Report Count (3)
0x81, 0x06,        //   Input (Data,Var,Rel,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position)
0x75, 0x05,        //   Report Size (5)
0x95, 0x01,        //   Report Count (1)
0x81, 0x01,        //   Input (Const,Array,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position)
0x06, 0x00, 0xFF,  //   Usage Page (Vendor Defined 0xFF00)
0x09, 0x01,        //   Usage (0x01)
0x85, 0x01,        //   Report ID (1)
0x15, 0x00,        //   Logical Minimum (0)
0x26, 0xFF, 0x00,  //   Logical Maximum (255)
0x75, 0x08,        //   Report Size (8)
0x95, 0x07,        //   Report Count (7)
0xB1, 0x00,        //   Feature (Data,Array,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position,Non-volatile)
0xC0,              // End Collection
0x05, 0x0C,        // Usage Page (Consumer)
0x09, 0x01,        // Usage (Consumer Control)
0xA1, 0x01,        // Collection (Application)
0x85, 0x03,        //   Report ID (3)
0x15, 0x00,        //   Logical Minimum (0)
0x25, 0x01,        //   Logical Maximum (1)
0x09, 0xB5,        //   Usage (Scan Next Track)
0x09, 0xB6,        //   Usage (Scan Previous Track)
0x09, 0xB7,        //   Usage (Stop)
0x09, 0xCD,        //   Usage (Play/Pause)
0x09, 0xE2,        //   Usage (Mute)
0x09, 0xE5,        //   Usage (Bass Boost)
0x09, 0xE7,        //   Usage (Loudness)
0x09, 0xE9,        //   Usage (Volume Increment)
0x09, 0xEA,        //   Usage (Volume Decrement)
0x0A, 0x52, 0x01,  //   Usage (Bass Increment)
0x0A, 0x53, 0x01,  //   Usage (Bass Decrement)
0x0A, 0x54, 0x01,  //   Usage (Treble Increment)
0x0A, 0x55, 0x01,  //   Usage (Treble Decrement)
0x0A, 0x83, 0x01,  //   Usage (AL Consumer Control Configuration)
0x0A, 0x8A, 0x01,  //   Usage (AL Email Reader)
0x0A, 0x92, 0x01,  //   Usage (AL Calculator)
0x0A, 0x94, 0x01,  //   Usage (AL Local Machine Browser)
0x0A, 0x21, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Search)
0x0A, 0x23, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Home)
0x0A, 0x24, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Back)
0x0A, 0x25, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Forward)
0x0A, 0x26, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Stop)
0x0A, 0x27, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Refresh)
0x0A, 0x2A, 0x02,  //   Usage (AC Bookmarks)
0x75, 0x01,        //   Report Size (1)
0x95, 0x18,        //   Report Count (24)
0x81, 0x02,        //   Input (Data,Var,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position)
0xC0,              // End Collection

0x05, 0x01,        // Usage Page (Generic Desktop Ctrls)
0x09, 0x06,        // Usage (Keyboard)
0xA1, 0x01,        // Collection (Application)
0x05, 0x07,        //   Usage Page (Kbrd/Keypad)
0x19, 0xE0,        //   Usage Minimum (0xE0)
0x29, 0xE7,        //   Usage Maximum (0xE7)
0x15, 0x00,        //   Logical Minimum (0)
0x25, 0x01,        //   Logical Maximum (1)
0x75, 0x01,        //   Report Size (1)
0x95, 0x08,        //   Report Count (8)
0x81, 0x02,        //   Input (Data,Var,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position)
0x19, 0x00,        //   Usage Minimum (0x00)
0x29, 0x67,        //   Usage Maximum (0x67)
0x95, 0x68,        //   Report Count (104)
0x81, 0x02,        //   Input (Data,Var,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position)
0x05, 0x08,        //   Usage Page (LEDs)
0x19, 0x01,        //   Usage Minimum (Num Lock)
0x29, 0x05,        //   Usage Maximum (Kana)
0x15, 0x00,        //   Logical Minimum (0)
0x25, 0x01,        //   Logical Maximum (1)
0x75, 0x01,        //   Report Size (1)
0x95, 0x05,        //   Report Count (5)
0x91, 0x02,        //   Output (Data,Var,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position,Non-volatile)
0x75, 0x03,        //   Report Size (3)
0x95, 0x01,        //   Report Count (1)
0x91, 0x01,        //   Output (Const,Array,Abs,No Wrap,Linear,Preferred State,No Null Position,Non-volatile)
0xC0,              // End Collection

pseudorandom name fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 20:34

The_Franz: Aug 8, 2003

pseudorandom name posted:

that would be hilarious, but I'm not going to buy a das keyboard to check

well, that's how you do it correctly. what exactly was stopping keyboard makers from doing this for the last decade? was it an issue with old motherboard bioses only supporting low-speed mode for keyboards or something like that?

# ? Feb 15, 2016 18:21

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

most nkro boards just have a giant switch on the back that lets you turn on a bios mode

# ? Feb 15, 2016 18:25

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

The_Franz posted:

well, that's how you do it correctly. what exactly was stopping keyboard makers from doing this for the last decade? was it an issue with old motherboard bioses only supporting low-speed mode for keyboards or something like that?

No that's a dada-esque abomination of a solution. The way to do it correctly is to write correct HID report descriptors.

The full USB HID specification is a complex standard that allows devices to describe an almost completely arbitrary data packet format to the OS. For instance, the packet can contain a list of up to six currently-pressed scan codes (as in HID BP), or it can contain a 256-bit bitfield independently describing the state of every key. Or any mixture of the two (dedicated bits for some keys, an array of scan codes for others). So there's no such thing as a "USB keyboard" or "USB mouse", there's just different kinds of USB HIDs containing completely arbitrary groups of inputs sending almost completely arbitrary report packets, and it's up to the OS to parse the binary metadata returned by the HID and figure out how to interpret those reports.

But there's also a simplified HID Boot Protocol specification intended for use by PC firmware that defines two hard-coded packet formats for keyboards and mice, respectively, and that's where the 6KRO restriction comes from. Except, much like PS/2, HID BP hasn't been relevant since the early 2000s since I'm pretty sure every single PC firmware out there has been able to understand full HID since forever ago.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 18:45

Sapozhnik: Jan 2, 2005; Nap Ghost

Well, also Windows 95 OSR2 supported "USB" in that it supported HID BP devices and nothing else. Windows 95 OSR2 hasn't been relevant for a while either.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 18:48

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# ? May 27, 2024 19:59

Asymmetric POSTer: Aug 17, 2005

windows 95 owned

# ? Feb 15, 2016 19:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > Linux: is the machine running fedora or just the user

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