Admiral Joeslop posted:

FFG please release full repaints and pilot cards of all Rogue Squadron members during the Bacta War, thanks.

The Gate posted:

I do agree that Whisper and Soontir are basically filling the exact same role as well. I prefer Soontir for the maneuver and durability, but I can see the argument for Whisper. I'm just not willing to pay the extra points yet.

Tekopo posted:

I'd actually rather see the X-wing get barrel roll in some way rather than boost. It would differentiate it from the t-70 for a start. The internet is filled with ideas in regards to the t-65 but most of them don't sound very exciting.

Admiral Joeslop posted:

What needs to be done to fix the T-65? They can't/won't make a new dial unless they decide to break precedent. Rogue Squadron Title, reduces points and... adds a system slot? Or gives them Engine Upgrade for free, though that makes Integrated Astromech a lot worse. Is a third Evade die enough?

Admiral Joeslop posted:

FFG please release full repaints and pilot cards of all Rogue Squadron members during the Bacta War, thanks.

guts and bolts posted:

Per usual, I have fairly similar opinions, just on the opposite side. I have nearly polar opposite experiences w/r/t Fel and Vader - Vader can consistently shove damage through, Soontir I'm afraid to spend the Focus on offense so I don't; Soontir's lack of TL kinda irks me, etc. - and I prefer Whisper to Fel. 100% agree on them essentially being the same role in a list, however. If OLeader didn't exist, I would have no doubt in my mind that VFP would be "the" Empire list to beat at the moment. A 26-point killer app makes Whisper playable again.

guts and bolts posted:

If you think Soontir Fel is a better option at this point than Omega Leader is, yep, we just don't agree. I don't even think Soontir Fel is one of the five most attractive options for an Empire list at this point. The stuff that beats Fel crushes him.

Major Isoor posted:

Hey there, after reading about ships being bent/damaged a couple of pages back, is there anything I can do to salvage my Y-Wing's right engine-extension...thing, in its current state? (Front view, rear view. Apologies about the poor quality of the photos)
Since yeah, I don't know how it could've been bent like that in my case, although the only other possible explanation would be the plastic softening under the heat we've had recently, which also seems fairly unlikely, since I'm sure it's seen hotter days.

Tekopo posted:

I think they have said that IA isn't the X-wing fix. Also where the hell is the Scyk/Starviper aces pack

Major Isoor posted:

Hey there, after reading about ships being bent/damaged a couple of pages back, is there anything I can do to salvage my Y-Wing's right engine-extension...thing, in its current state? (Front view, rear view. Apologies about the poor quality of the photos)
Since yeah, I don't know how it could've been bent like that in my case, although the only other possible explanation would be the plastic softening under the heat we've had recently, which also seems fairly unlikely, since I'm sure it's seen hotter days.

Geisladisk posted:

I'll be blunt; I think you're not very good at running Fel, and I don't think you've played people who are very good at running Fel.

OL isn't even comparable to Fel, and he's not meant to be. It's not a contest, because they fill different roles and play very differently.

ConfusedUs posted:

Hwks just kind of suck. They're situationally good, but not quite worth it.

I wish they had one of the following
The SLAM action.
One more native attack die AND another shield
Cost one or two less points for all pilots for both factions.

Geisladisk posted:

I'll be blunt; I think you're not very good at running Fel, and I don't think you've played people who are very good at running Fel.

OL isn't even comparable to Fel, and he's not meant to be. It's not a contest, because they fill different roles and play very differently.

Poopy Palpy posted:

Yeah, I'm not sure how to put this nicely, guts, but you've only been playing for a month and a half. It's a deep enough game that unless you've been playing it non-stop there's things left for you to learn, especially about one of the most difficult pilots in the game.

guts and bolts posted:

You're the same guy who thought that Palpshuttle was rendered unplayable by Boba Fett? Or, put another way, being blunt, I don't think I'm going to take your word for it. Sorry. More to the point, I wasn't saying that OLeader does Fel's job at all, let alone better - just that I think OLeader is the best ship at the Empire's disposal, in the current meta, and he dramatically changes how you balance the game since he's 26 points. In a lot of ways, Imperial Veterans and Omega Leader do things to the Empire's balancing formula going forward that are going to be hard to parse in the short term. You can't create any other truly effective ships in that price range, now, for example, without risking blowing the game open, in the same way that you've now essentially made it so that 3-cost cannons (or lower) have to be very carefully balanced because of their use with TIE/D.


That's the thing, though - Fel doesn't strike me as difficult in the same way that a ship like 41Whisper is, in the same way that "doing an uppercut" isn't actually hard in Street Fighter. Once you know how to do it, it is no longer "hard," and anyone at respectable levels of play takes it as an automatic skill you possess. Fel can token-tank, and he has good action economy, and he's PS9. I'm not sure where the mystique comes from w/r/t his perceived difficulty. You dodge arcs. X-Wing is a great game, I do essentially play it non-stop (three dedicated nights a week and a lot of other time spent on Vassal and, regrettably, TTS), and I just don't think it's incredibly hard to learn. Match-up specific tactics are difficult to master, for sure, and there are wide gaps in my knowledge of what used to be in meta and popular, but I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm undefeated in consecutive months thus far in store league and have a sort of egregiously positive overall winrate. Some of this is owed to the fact that between waves, tech changes - people experiment with stuff that they'd normally not find competitive, stuff like that, I get it - and some of it is owed to a metagame that still tends to adhere to old standards (like, for example, Soontir Fel, who is all over the place at GA, AE, and GT) instead of choosing what might be considered pound-for-pound more effective in the meta (we have like two dedicated TLT players I've been able to find).

Fel plays the same game of anticipating enemy movement, and can largely cover for mistakes with discretionary position changes. I think that once you have a basic understanding of the game he's one of the easier ships to play, because he has one truly effective build and tends to have fairly binary choices available to him at any given moment. I'm not sure this equates to "hard" - a "hard" ship to fly, to me, is one that has its basic movement options strictly hamstrung, or that doesn't get access to blatantly effective EPT tech to compensate for potential mistakes made, or whatever. Like a B-Wing is hard to fly, for me. Fel is less so.

I don't doubt there's a lot more stuff for me to learn, and that's why I try to put thought into the posts I make when drawing the conclusions that I do. I'm not materializing things out of thin air - I apply the matchup experience I have against the players I've played against when deciding what to run, and how. Soontir Fel is probably the ship I'm most comfortable making comments on, because he's probably been in > 50% of the games I've ever played in X-Wing. When I have little experience with a subject, I also try to go to listbuilding in high-profile tournaments. Fel was in the number 4 Worlds list, and didn't re-appear until 16 and 17, and does not re-appear again. Omega Leader wasn't played yet, and his point cost is what makes Whisper such an attractive option now - you can have two high-efficacy aces in a list with a Palpshuttle where one of them is Whisper, now, and before you could not. This isn't speculative or whatever - these are just facts.

Now, I don't think that looking at what strictly wins at Worlds defines what is best - too many other factors come into play - but I think it forms an excellent spine for what is playable at the highest level. Fel appears in three of the top thirty-two lists; Empire featured in eight. This was before OLeader was even a thing. The data by itself, to me, indicates that people are wary about slotting Soontir Fel blindly into lists just because he's Fel, or that they've come to a similar conclusion to ConfusedUs, which is that Fel is a massive liability in some lists, and is one bad roll away from being a liability in virtually every other matchup. Whisper appeared in exactly one fewer list than Soontir Fel did, and that was before the tech that freed her up in listbuilding even existed.

Do I think I'm a Worlds-level player because I've had a run of success locally? No. But I also put thought behind my analysis, and I feel confident saying most of what I'm saying, some hyperbole excluded. If you think Soontir Fel is still the de facto core of Empire listbuilding, back it up. Show me whatcha got. I'm not saying I won't change my mind.

Improbable Lobster posted:

guts and bolts posted:

or that they've come to a similar conclusion to ConfusedUs, which is that Fel is a massive liability in some lists, and is one bad roll away from being a liability in virtually every other matchup.

ConfusedUs posted:

lol if you think that's what I said.

My point is that Soontir is no longer an auto-include, because he's no longer the best at everything. He absolutely, 100% still has a place on the table.

guts and bolts posted:

You're the same guy who thought that Palpshuttle was rendered unplayable by Boba Fett? Or, put another way, being blunt, I don't think I'm going to take your word for it. Sorry. More to the point, I wasn't saying that OLeader does Fel's job at all, let alone better - just that I think OLeader is the best ship at the Empire's disposal, in the current meta, and he dramatically changes how you balance the game since he's 26 points. In a lot of ways, Imperial Veterans and Omega Leader do things to the Empire's balancing formula going forward that are going to be hard to parse in the short term. You can't create any other truly effective ships in that price range, now, for example, without risking blowing the game open, in the same way that you've now essentially made it so that 3-cost cannons (or lower) have to be very carefully balanced because of their use with TIE/D.


That's the thing, though - Fel doesn't strike me as difficult in the same way that a ship like 41Whisper is, in the same way that "doing an uppercut" isn't actually hard in Street Fighter. Once you know how to do it, it is no longer "hard," and anyone at respectable levels of play takes it as an automatic skill you possess. Fel can token-tank, and he has good action economy, and he's PS9. I'm not sure where the mystique comes from w/r/t his perceived difficulty. You dodge arcs. X-Wing is a great game, I do essentially play it non-stop (three dedicated nights a week and a lot of other time spent on Vassal and, regrettably, TTS), and I just don't think it's incredibly hard to learn. Match-up specific tactics are difficult to master, for sure, and there are wide gaps in my knowledge of what used to be in meta and popular, but I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm undefeated in consecutive months thus far in store league and have a sort of egregiously positive overall winrate. Some of this is owed to the fact that between waves, tech changes - people experiment with stuff that they'd normally not find competitive, stuff like that, I get it - and some of it is owed to a metagame that still tends to adhere to old standards (like, for example, Soontir Fel, who is all over the place at GA, AE, and GT) instead of choosing what might be considered pound-for-pound more effective in the meta (we have like two dedicated TLT players I've been able to find).

Fel plays the same game of anticipating enemy movement, and can largely cover for mistakes with discretionary position changes. I think that once you have a basic understanding of the game he's one of the easier ships to play, because he has one truly effective build and tends to have fairly binary choices available to him at any given moment. I'm not sure this equates to "hard" - a "hard" ship to fly, to me, is one that has its basic movement options strictly hamstrung, or that doesn't get access to blatantly effective EPT tech to compensate for potential mistakes made, or whatever. Like a B-Wing is hard to fly, for me. Fel is less so.

I don't doubt there's a lot more stuff for me to learn, and that's why I try to put thought into the posts I make when drawing the conclusions that I do. I'm not materializing things out of thin air - I apply the matchup experience I have against the players I've played against when deciding what to run, and how. Soontir Fel is probably the ship I'm most comfortable making comments on, because he's probably been in > 50% of the games I've ever played in X-Wing. When I have little experience with a subject, I also try to go to listbuilding in high-profile tournaments. Fel was in the number 4 Worlds list, and didn't re-appear until 16 and 17, and does not re-appear again. Omega Leader wasn't played yet, and his point cost is what makes Whisper such an attractive option now - you can have two high-efficacy aces in a list with a Palpshuttle where one of them is Whisper, now, and before you could not. This isn't speculative or whatever - these are just facts.

Now, I don't think that looking at what strictly wins at Worlds defines what is best - too many other factors come into play - but I think it forms an excellent spine for what is playable at the highest level. Fel appears in three of the top thirty-two lists; Empire featured in eight. This was before OLeader was even a thing. The data by itself, to me, indicates that people are wary about slotting Soontir Fel blindly into lists just because he's Fel, or that they've come to a similar conclusion to ConfusedUs, which is that Fel is a massive liability in some lists, and is one bad roll away from being a liability in virtually every other matchup. Whisper appeared in exactly one fewer list than Soontir Fel did, and that was before the tech that freed her up in listbuilding even existed.

Do I think I'm a Worlds-level player because I've had a run of success locally? No. But I also put thought behind my analysis, and I feel confident saying most of what I'm saying, some hyperbole excluded. If you think Soontir Fel is still the de facto core of Empire listbuilding, back it up. Show me whatcha got. I'm not saying I won't change my mind.

grassy gnoll posted:

Look guys I've been playing for two months and trust me when I say you're all a bunch of shitheads

guts and bolts posted:

[...] I prefer Whisper to Fel. 100% agree on them essentially being the same role in a list, however. If OLeader didn't exist, I would have no doubt in my mind that VFP would be "the" Empire list to beat at the moment.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I played my first game of X-Wing in years against my wife. She has never played. We did the tutorial mission, her playing Resistance and me playing First Order.

I won with one hull point left on my remaining TIE.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I played my first game of X-Wing in years against my wife. She has never played. We did the tutorial mission, her playing Resistance and me playing First Order.

I won with one hull point left on my remaining TIE.

Beer4TheBeerGod posted:

I played my first game of X-Wing in years against my wife. She has never played. We did the tutorial mission, her playing Resistance and me playing First Order.

I won with one hull point left on my remaining TIE.

EnjoiThePureTrip posted:

I think everyone, even Guts&Bolts can agree that Soontir is still Top 5, right? In reality, are there even five Aces in the race?

1. Darth Vader
2. Omega Leader
3. Vessery (Post-Veterans)
4. Whisper
5. Soontir Fel

I don't think The Inquisitor is going to be bumping anyone off that list. And then who's left? Rexler Brath, Juno Eclipse, or Carnor Jax, none of which are better than Soontir, unless you're valuing PS 10 that highly.

Soontir definitely still has a game against VI Poe, and Whisper still has a game against VI Poe IN THE RIGHT LIST. And that seems to be the big difference. I personally prefer Whisper because of the non-VI Poe matchups, but I definitely think that Soontir is happier to see VI Poe across the table than Whisper is. Hell, I'm actually testing out a Decoy Whisper build just to win the VI Poe matchup (and VI Ten Numb).

Icon Of Sin posted:

These are my favorite games. If everyone on the board at the end isn't 2/3 of stressed, on fire, or dealing with critical effects I don't feel like it was a real good game. The nailbiters are the most fun for me, just steamrolling someone/getting steamrolled...not so much.

General Battuta posted:

Tractor beam makes people angry. They don't like it. Man, come to think of it, taking away a green die really is pretty good, that's like a pocket Wedge (though you gotta hit first). And the drop-people-on-asteroids potential, the ability to turn off guns and force them into/out of your arc, this is a pretty potent 1 point...

e: outrider with 360 tractor beam, bad but great

ZenMastaT posted:

Dang people post a lot in this thread. I've been super out of the game for like a month cause my schedule hasn't been matching up at all with the people I normally play against but I've got a big weekend of nerd gaming planned so hopefully that will take care of business for awhile!

People were talking about cool K-Wing paint jobs a thousand posts ago so I thought I'd link a couple pics of one I had a guy do for me:





It's based on a Crimson Skies bomber thing, I'm starting to really like predominant red schemes lately. I know the painting thread is that way but that thing is mostly warhammer from what I've seen and who wants to read about that.

I'm planning to play my second ever epic game this weekend and I'm wondering if anyone has any kind of strategy for formations that keep your small ships close enough to the Raider or whatever to take advantage of the various Range 1-2 bonuses it can equip while simultaneously engaging the enemy and not getting your rear end run over by your own dang self.