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Worth noting that the abolition of the bursaries is the second step in creating a nurse recruitment crisis, the first step already happened and it was the inexplicable decision to require all nurse trainees to complete a three year degree, thus ensuring that the future generation of nurses gets less practical patient contact but can write essays really well.
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Feb 12, 2016 23:43
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I kind of wonder if the NHS shouldn't just endorse any party that funds it properly and be publicly opposed to any government that doesn't. E: actually all government departments should do that. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 23:53 on Feb 12, 2016 |
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Feb 12, 2016 23:49
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Public bodies showing political bias seems suicidal.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:17
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Namtab posted:Public bodies showing political bias seems suicidal. Being neutral hasn't shown a better outcome recently.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:20
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OwlFancier posted:I kind of wonder if the NHS shouldn't just endorse any party that funds it properly and be publicly opposed to any government that doesn't. Like the MoD?
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Feb 13, 2016 00:26
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Desiderata posted:Like the MoD? Oh, yeah, hmm. Ok can the MoD stop doing it and everyone else start doing it?
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Feb 13, 2016 00:28
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OwlFancier posted:I kind of wonder if the NHS shouldn't just endorse any party that funds it properly and be publicly opposed to any government that doesn't. The NHS is apolitical. Except when it isn't. The BMA remain resolutely apolitical which at this stage is just loving stupid when the Government have shown them nothing but contempt. but then again, given how tepid Labour have been about the whole issue, it's not like there's anyone the BMA could join up with at this point except maybe the TUC. It's the trouble with being a profession which, by and large, is caring and concerned with honesty and evidenced practice - you get super hosed when the people who are opposing you don't play by the same rules. thespaceinvader fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 13, 2016 00:30
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Namtab posted:Public bodies showing political bias seems suicidal. Why? The NHS can't lobby in its own favour, but any private health concern can. How is any public entity supposed to be able to weather that kind of inherent bias?
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Feb 13, 2016 00:43
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Renaissance Robot posted:Why? By entering the private sector, you statist.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:45
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Tesseraction posted:By entering the private sector, you statist. Do have a wall in your house? Please go stand by the wall. Someone will be along shortly to protect you.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:53
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What do you honestly think would happen if, say, the fire and rescue service openly backed Labour in an election, and the Tories won.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:54
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It sucks when parents of patients criticise cuts and I have to be neutral.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:54
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Renaissance Robot posted:Why? It's not, that's the whole point of this exercise, from Hunt's perspective. And it's working. (Also, maybe worth noting that the BMA and the other medics' unions DO lobby for themselves) Namtab posted:What do you honestly think would happen if, say, the fire and rescue service openly backed Labour in an election, and the Tories won. You mean the fire and rescue service whose union recently rejoined the TUC?
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Feb 13, 2016 00:55
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Namtab posted:What do you honestly think would happen if, say, the fire and rescue service openly backed Labour in an election, and the Tories won. Lots of tories houses mysteriously catch fire and burn down?
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Feb 13, 2016 00:56
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Namtab posted:What do you honestly think would happen if, say, the fire and rescue service openly backed Labour in an election, and the Tories won.
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Feb 13, 2016 00:58
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Twenty firemen in a truck pull up outside Tory HQ: "Nice party headquarters you've got here, shame if anything were to happen to it. Very expensive, all them statues of maggie and that. Wouldn't want them getting an axe accidentally lodged in them would we? My lads out there have their eye on one of those fire engines made out of old russian tanks and fighter jets. I'm sure if you bought us one we could see our way to making sure none of your members find themselves stuck in their cars with the doors mysteriously bent shut."
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Feb 13, 2016 01:02
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Plus there's a real expectation in the apolitical (read: people who aren't posting about politics at midnight) that the nhs set itself apart from party politics.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:02
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Namtab posted:Plus there's a real expectation in the apolitical (read: people who aren't posting about politics at midnight) that the nhs set itself apart from party politics. Does that fall ahead or behind people's expectations of the NHS to provide the service people depend on it for? Cos like, at this point not openly opposing the government represents grievous mismanagement.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:03
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OwlFancier posted:Does that fall ahead or behind people's expectations of the NHS to provide the service people depend on it for? Surprisingly there are a lot of contradictory expectations when you provide healthcare.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:10
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Namtab posted:Surprisingly there are a lot of contradictory expectations when you provide healthcare. I agree, I just genuinely wonder if it might not be at the point where the NHS collapsing might be worth risking some people's esteem over.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:11
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Namtab posted:It sucks when parents of patients criticise cuts and I have to be neutral. Why do you have to remain neutral? I mean yeah I wouldn't wear a giant badge saying 'vote labour' while working on the wards but if someone tells me they think the cuts suck I am definitely going to agree with them. I certainly wouldn't hedge and say anything that might be confused with supporting further NHS cuts. Plenty of doctors have worn badges supporting the BMA at work, and I think agreeing with a sentiment expressed by a patient is less divisive than that.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:34
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I think it's likely that the lack of a push by Labour in support of the BMA publicly has been intentional to avoid feeding the Tories and their media pals a new angle to attack doctors with. It doesn't look great to those of us dying for Labour to be bringing the fight to the Tories but it's probably for the better.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:40
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The lack of support for the BMA is because Labour does not support strikes.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:50
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thespaceinvader posted:E: for me, and for virtually everyone there last night, the most disappointing thing is that the Labour party hasn't been hitting on this. Even if they wouldn't get published in the papers (which they wouldn't to any significant extent) Corbyn should have been slamming this into every drat PMQs since the strikes were first threatened and he hasn't touched it. Apparently, they have a policy of not endorsing strikes. McDonnel rocked up to the picket line anyway. quote:Members of the shadow cabinet were surprised to find McDonnell join the protest at St Thomas’ hospital, near the Houses of Parliament, shortly after Labour’s health spokeswoman Heidi Alexander had explained to them that the party would stand by its policy of not supporting industrial action. Gonzo McFee posted:This been posted yet? Wow. There really isn't a different word for it, is there.
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Feb 13, 2016 01:56
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Why on earth does the Labour party not support strikes?
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Feb 13, 2016 02:04
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OwlFancier posted:Why on earth does the Labour party not support strikes? Here's an article with a bit more detail about the historical position of the party on strikes. The tldr is that it sometimes does so tacitly or explicitly at the individual or local level. I guess the reason they're not supporting it is to avoid alienating patients with cancelled appointments etc - basically a political calculation. Prince John fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 13, 2016 02:08
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Namtab posted:Worth noting that the abolition of the bursaries is the second step in creating a nurse recruitment crisis, the first step already happened and it was the inexplicable decision to require all nurse trainees to complete a three year degree, thus ensuring that the future generation of nurses gets less practical patient contact but can write essays really well. The third step, the second step was setting up deporting all the foreign nurses
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Feb 13, 2016 02:09
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OwlFancier posted:Why on earth does the Labour party not support strikes? Because the party exists to neuter the trade union movement
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Feb 13, 2016 02:10
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OwlFancier posted:Why on earth does the Labour party not support strikes? Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again.
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Feb 13, 2016 02:49
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I read "The Ghost" by Robert Harris this afternoon. Man alive, he was not pleased with Blair.
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Feb 13, 2016 03:55
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TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. Seriously? Edit: Oh its an Ed Miliband quote. jabby fucked around with this message at 09:55 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 13, 2016 09:26
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TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. There's no negotiation with a shark.
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Feb 13, 2016 09:37
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I think generally the BMA has tried to keep party politics out of it's strikes playing the concerned professionals angle, so avoid a mob of labour mps has been in there interest. But I'm sure I've seen McDonnell on the picket line so who knows.
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Feb 13, 2016 09:44
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TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. 
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Feb 13, 2016 09:52
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jabby posted:Seriously? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCem9EZb-YA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxH-t-4KbY The real surprise isn't that Labour hasn't backed the strike, it's that they are not publicly condemning it.
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Feb 13, 2016 09:57
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Fans posted:Labour does not support strikes. What a joke. Just look at that sentence. TinTower posted:Because they're wrong at a time when negotiations are still going on. Both sides should put aside the rhetoric, get around the negotiating table, and stop this happening again. Especially hilarious in this case because the BMA actually did that twice and after coming to an agreement got told to do one because Hunt didn't want to compromise.
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Feb 13, 2016 10:19
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Having seen how well the Americans got on with Camp Bucca, Gove's decided he wants to create his own. I'm sure no bad can come from putting 100+ violent criminals dedicated to the same murderous ideology in the same place, this is definitely a good idea.
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Feb 13, 2016 11:34
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Guys chill its all part of corbyns new politics. We don't want to be negative here, the plan of asking Cameron "what are you going to do to help Mary feed her cats" every PMQs so he can make a speech about how great he is is going to pay off some day. E: anyway what is the destruction of the nations infrastructure in comparison to a rehashed old fight nobody under 50 cares about over what missiles our submarines carry? Communist Thoughts fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Feb 13, 2016 |
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Feb 13, 2016 11:35
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baka kaba posted:Am I right in thinking most junior doctors are a) graduating with a huge wodge of student loan debt, and b) losing another chunk of their salaries to repayments because they're over the 'you earn enough' threshold? Yes. And the threshold's been frozen by Osbourne rather than rising in line with inflation as was promised in 2012 so it's an effective tax rise / pay cut each year. Funny that.
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Feb 13, 2016 11:38
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NO gently caress YOU DAD posted:Having seen how well the Americans got on with Camp Bucca, Gove's decided he wants to create his own. I'm pretty sure one of the key ways to combat fundamentalism/extremism is to help people move AWAY from the people around them who also support that view not shove them all into one place where they can share ideas and whip each other up into a frenzy. Unless his plan is to also keep them in permanent isolation which... is not better. nopantsjack posted:Guys chill its all part of corbyns new politics. I have been all for Corbs but loving hell his inability to focus on the current important political issues and actually challenge the madness competently is driving me up the wall. He has missed so many golden opportunities, and I don't care if he doesn't produce a fancy soundbite but any sounds would be good really.
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Feb 13, 2016 11:42
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