Auspol February: The NRL Really Screwed The Pooch

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Auspol February: The NRL Really Screwed The Pooch

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

Gorbash posted:

I'm not a union expert but I've been a CPSU member (and occasional delegate) for 20 years. I'd describe them as "good hearted but ineffectual" - they try but don't really seem to accomplish much. Given the public service is their domain that's perhaps not too surprising.

At the very least they're not allowing the industry to backslide in terms of work conditions, AND in the face of a Liberal government. The SDA seems to actively undermine its members.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 10:44

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:05

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Cool, thanks all. I had a feeling the CPSU was good people but wanted to make sure before I committed. The recent SDA undermining Mithranderp mentioned is fresh in my mind.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:04

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

The SDA only undermine workers rights when they have a good reason, like halting The Gay Agenda or buying Joe de Bruyn another car

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:08

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Mithranderp posted:

At the very least they're not allowing the industry to backslide in terms of work conditions, AND in the face of a Liberal government. The SDA seems to actively undermine its members.

Unions are only as strong as the workforce really. They lobby at the political level quite well, but for large chunks of the federal and state public service (all the EBAs come up at the same time) the public wouldn't notice a stop work strike. Makes it very difficult for them to be highly effective.

In saying that though, only a handful of the EBAs have been voted up, the majority have knocked them back and are pushing for higher pay increases and stopping conditions from being taken off the EBA and put on to ERAs instead.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:40

birdstrike: Oct 30, 2008; i;m gay

yeah the cpsu are pretty good

they need to hire more people but that's pretty much it

# ? Feb 13, 2016 11:59

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

EvilElmo posted:

Unions are only as strong as the workforce really. They lobby at the political level quite well, but for large chunks of the federal and state public service (all the EBAs come up at the same time) the public wouldn't notice a stop work strike. Makes it very difficult for them to be highly effective.

In saying that though, only a handful of the EBAs have been voted up, the majority have knocked them back and are pushing for higher pay increases and stopping conditions from being taken off the EBA and put on to ERAs instead.

Yeah, and I'd wager that one of the reasons that the SDA is so poo poo is the terrible bargaining position that their members are in. They are so replaceable that it's difficult to bargain from a powerful position, even collectively.

e: and I don't mean 'replaceable' in any sort of disparaging way towards the workers themselves, having been a retail worker myself. it's just the reality that for every job advertised in those industries, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of applicants who are by and large exactly the same.

The Before Times fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Feb 13, 2016

# ? Feb 13, 2016 12:16

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Mithranderp posted:

Yeah, and I'd wager that one of the reasons that the SDA is so poo poo is the terrible bargaining position that their members are in. They are so replaceable that it's difficult to bargain from a powerful position, even collectively.

e: and I don't mean 'replaceable' in any sort of disparaging way towards the workers themselves, having been a retail worker myself. it's just the reality that for every job advertised in those industries, there are hundreds (if not thousands) of applicants who are by and large exactly the same.

I dunno they seem to do a pretty good job at bargaining at labor party conferences.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 15:12

Doctor Spaceman: Jul 6, 2010; "Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

CPSU are good and are currently getting stonewalled hard by the government.

EvilElmo posted:

So candidates with under x% (can't remember the exact number) of the vote get ignored, so the weird preference deals that allowed Muir to get up won't matter anymore.

I was pretty sure the recommendations didn't have a quota threshold, but I could be wrong (I know it got proposed).

quote:

It will certainly turn it from being near impossible to very hard. They'd need a big personal following and voter turnout. If all the racist UPF etc. groups get together and get behind 1 candidate in NSW and QLD they might get a senator in each state. But that isn't going to happen. All the vanity candidates will flock to the senate ticket in the view it's easy to get elected, which will kill their respective chances of getting up.

The quote reduction does change things though. Lion Hat got more than half a quote last time on first preferences. PUP in Tasmania almost did. Xenophon would have got 3 candidates up (rather than just himself). This is before any preference stuff really comes into play.

There's a difference between small-but-actual parties like Family First and the Shooters and Fishers, and preference-harvesting groups or fringe candidates, and it'd really matter at a DD.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 15:16

Recoome: Nov 9, 2013; Matter of fact, I'm salty now.

Hey friends anyone in brisbane thinking of going to the vigil in front of the Lady Cilento Hospital today? Should be good!

# ? Feb 13, 2016 23:09

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Recoome posted:

Hey friends anyone in brisbane thinking of going to the vigil in front of the Lady Cilento Hospital today? Should be good!

I went to check it out last night. Quite a few people there, but probably will be more during the day. People were honking their horns and some guy drove past yelling (among other things) "HITLER WAS RIGHT". They also had pizza.

# ? Feb 13, 2016 23:27

hooman: Oct 11, 2007; This guy seems legit.; Fun Shoe

Jumpingmanjim posted:

I went to check it out last night. Quite a few people there, but probably will be more during the day. People were honking their horns and some guy drove past yelling (among other things) "HITLER WAS RIGHT". They also had pizza.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 02:40

Solemn Sloth: Jul 11, 2015; Baby you can shout at me,
But you can't need my eyes.

Jumpingmanjim posted:

I went to check it out last night. Quite a few people there, but probably will be more during the day. People were honking their horns and some guy drove past yelling (among other things) "HITLER WAS RIGHT". They also had pizza.

Was he wearing a port adelaide jumper?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 03:11

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

Of these two anti-Malcolm slogans, which is better? "Drop the fop" or "The fop's a flop"

# ? Feb 14, 2016 03:23

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Of these two anti-Malcolm slogans, which is better? "Drop the fop" or "The fop's a flop"

I'd say they're both strong messages, friend

# ? Feb 14, 2016 03:29

Redcordial: Nov 7, 2009; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

lol the country is fed up with your safe spaces and trigger warnings you useless special snowflakes, send the sjws to mexico

Solemn Sloth posted:

Was he wearing a port adelaide jumper?

God drat it, we are saints!

Power supporters are always getting the raw deal, at least we arn't the Pies or St Kilda, who are not saints.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 03:33

Urcher: Jun 16, 2006

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Of these two anti-Malcolm slogans, which is better? "Drop the fop" or "The fop's a flop"

Drop the fop, obviously.

Rhyming slogans roll off the tongue and are great for chanting. Alliterating slogans are easier to to mispronounce and will sound much clunkier when coming from an angry mob with pitchforks.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 04:16

asio: Nov 29, 2008; "Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

"fop"

Problematic.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 04:24

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

asio posted:

Problematic.

Current usage: a dandy or foolish and weak aristocratic sort

Etymology: a fool.

Don't really see the problem?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 04:35

The Before Times: Mar 8, 2014; Once upon a time, I would have thrown you halfway to the moon for a crack like that.

Urcher posted:

Drop the fop, obviously.

Rhyming slogans roll off the tongue and are great for chanting. Alliterating slogans are easier to to mispronounce and will sound much clunkier when coming from an angry mob with pitchforks.

And it's three words, short enough for even the idiots to remember

# ? Feb 14, 2016 04:36

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

Found this:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-13/turnbull-cabinet-reshuffle-who-is-going-where/7163334

It's interactive so I can't really quote it. Notable :dogbutton:

is Luke Hartsuyker. He was even touted as a likely Nationals leadership candidate. There's something more to this that I haven't seen anywhere.

I like this quote about the reshuffle:

quote:

Federal Cabinet is getting dumber with each reshuffle. Those promoted today weren�t good enough 6 months ago. They were only promoted because Minister�s stuffed up or bailed out. So many have training wheels (Ciobo has Robb, even Joyce has Nash to help him bite his tongue, and she has training wheels herself). Turnbull is great at spinning this as rejuvination, but it�s just desperation. And the team probably won�t last to the election. For starters, Pyne and Roy are also under investigation by the AFP along with Brough.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-14/scott-morrison-criticises-labors-negative-gearing-plan/7166670

I mentioned sometime back that Morrison wasn't a great fit for Treasurer because (unlike his previous portfolio) you couldn't act as a valve for information. In treasury the rest of the world knows the figures often before the Treasurer does. This is a classic case of Morrison missing the entire point and proudly doubling down:

quote:

Scott Morrison says Labor's plan to scrap negative gearing will raise 'very little' revenue By political reporter Matthew Doran Updated about an hour ago

Federal Treasurer Scott Morrison has criticised the efficacy of the Opposition's plan to scrap negative gearing on established houses, arguing it will not help the budget bottom line as much as Labor is claiming it will.

Key points:

Scott Morrison says scrapping negative gearing will not raise as much revenue as Labor claims
The Treasurer said the plan was "like their famous mining tax"
->Parliamentary Budget Office said measures could save $32 billion over 10 years<-
Opposition Leader Bill Shorten's announcement on Saturday proposed scrapping negative gearing for established properties from July next year.

The changes would not affect the tax arrangements for investment properties purchased before July 2017.

"Like their famous mining tax, Labor's proposed change to negative gearing promises big, but raises very little revenue," Mr Morrison wrote in an opinion piece published in News Corp newspapers. "It could also have some very nasty consequences for everyday mum and dad investors just trying to get ahead." (Note the non sequitor which was also like the one used against the Mining Tax. Won't do anything - will ruin everything).

Parliamentary Budget Office costings show the measures could save the budget $32.1 billion over 10 years once they come into force. "The less than $600 million their changes will raise over four years, not $30 billion, does not even pay the monthly interest bill on the debt Labor gave us, let alone the higher spending they have planned," Mr Morrison wrote. "The first priority for any revenue derived from changing any taxes should be to reduce taxes on those who are earning in our economy to support jobs and growth."(which famous economist said this? none of them because it is entirely neo-con bullshit)

Shadow treasurer Chris Bowen hit back, arguing only Labor was putting forward policy proposals for the tax system. "We look at structural saves over the long-term which do take a while to build up but the budget needs long-term repair and so this is a change which doesn't have a huge impact in the first four years, we want it to build up," Mr Bowen told the ABC's Insiders program. "The reason for that is because we have grandfathered everything now, Scott Morrison in his consideration is not going to grandfather. If he's going to get bigger returns to the budget in the first four years by whacking into existing investments he should say so. He should rule out doing that because that's the clear implication of his criticism."

The guy is a dumb baboon in a suit and his elevation to Treasurer is making this clearer every day.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:04

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

so is there any source for his $600 million claim or is he literally just making poo poo up and getting away with it

e: also shouldn't the first priority of tax revenue be fixing THE DEFICIT? he refers to LABOR'S DEBT in the immediately previous sentence, then immediately says that any revenue they get from tax changes they'll offset with tax cuts. what happened to the BUDGET DISASTER :confused:

BBJoey fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Feb 14, 2016

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:22

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

The budget disaster lasted about 5 minutes into the LNP's term.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:32

norp: Jan 20, 2004; TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

let's invade New Zealand, they have oil

I imagine the 600m figure comes from the PBO modelling.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:37

TheMightyHandful: Dec 8, 2008

If alp's negative gearing gets up, won't investors just start knocking down and rebuilding properties?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:42

Cartoon: Jun 20, 2008; poop

BBJoey posted:

so is there any source for his $600 million claim or is he literally just making poo poo up and getting away with it

e: also shouldn't the first priority of tax revenue be fixing THE DEFICIT? he refers to LABOR'S DEBT in the immediately previous sentence, then immediately says that any revenue they get from tax changes they'll offset with tax cuts. what happened to the BUDGET DISASTER

Because the Labor scheme is Grandfathered and doesn't start until July 2017 it has a slow lead in but then becomes an accumulated ongoing saving. This is what you do to fix structural budgetary problems. Structural problem fixes don't come with a sugar hit if implemented responsibly. It is actually fundamentally different to a mining super profits tax (which would be generating no money today) which it can also be differentiated from by not being a structural fix in any case.

Perhaps to explain why Morrison is insane and this a good Labor policy>

Debt and Deficit are different things. At ~0% interest it is actually very sound for governments to borrow money. Maybe what the country should be asking Scotty is why he can't fund government debt more cheaply. That's definitely his job. Can't blame Labor for that. Debt can be used to make your government policies (long term) succeed.

Deficit is where you aren't bringing in as much as you are spending. Structural deficit is where you have made long term policy decisions that lock in the deficit for future years. This is what JWH did in spades. He took one off windfall revenue gains (and this is the cringeworthy part ->) with huge unprecedented long term revenue negative asset sales to cut taxes to the well off. The LNP have decided that this is clever economics :iiam:

And ala Britain, Greece, The USA have committed themselves to not only continue the tax cuts but to 'fix' the deficit by further (revenue negative) asset sales and savage cuts to everything. Neo-con government fundamentally questions the point to any government existing and sets about dismantling the bits that aren't directly lining the pockets of the wealthy.

TheMightyHandful posted:

If alp's negative gearing gets up, won't investors just start knocking down and rebuilding properties?

Which would actually do what Negative Gearing was meant to achieve. Especially as the new houses would have to meet modern building codes and are much more likely to be redeveloped as medium density.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 05:46

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

Replace Bill Shorten, start a conversation about negative gearing and the ALP would be on the right track to an election winning platform.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 06:19

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

But what will freak out white Australia more: a GST coming for fruit and vegetables or Socialists coming for extensive property portfolios.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 06:21

EvilElmo: May 10, 2009

Anidav posted:

Replace Bill Shorten, start a conversation about negative gearing and the ALP would be on the right track to an election winning platform.

Do you really think Bowen is the stronger choice?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 06:41

Bomb-Bunny: Mar 4, 2007; A true population explosion.

Anidav posted:

But what will freak out white Australia more: a GST coming for fruit and vegetables or Socialists coming for extensive property portfolios.

The latter, grocery price rises would be swamped in a sea of Woolies vs. Coles "BEAT THE GST BACK!" price slashing ads.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 06:42

asio: Nov 29, 2008; "Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Current usage: a dandy or foolish and weak aristocratic sort

Etymology: a fool.

Don't really see the problem?

I hope your campaign achieves its objectives but it's more the man is girly, weak, and unsuited to colonial leadership. Like, Downer for enjoying fishnets.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 07:23

Anidav: Feb 25, 2010; ahhh fuck its the rats again

EvilElmo posted:

Do you really think Bowen is the stronger choice?

Anyone but Tanya to avoid Gillard comparsons but Bowen has a weird mousey voice. Always seems like he's about to pee his pants and cry.

Albo is the next choice but who knows if a leader boost would save his seat from the incoming Greens campaign that'll swamp his turf.

Polling wise that only leaves Wayne Sean who leads Bill Shor-who by 2% as preferred leader. Lol. That's damaged goods from the RGR govt. though. :effort:

# ? Feb 14, 2016 07:32

BBJoey: Oct 31, 2012

Cartoon posted:

Perhaps to explain why Morrison is insane and this a good Labor policy>

Debt and Deficit are different things. At ~0% interest it is actually very sound for governments to borrow money. Maybe what the country should be asking Scotty is why he can't fund government debt more cheaply. That's definitely his job. Can't blame Labor for that. Debt can be used to make your government policies (long term) succeed.

Deficit is where you aren't bringing in as much as you are spending. Structural deficit is where you have made long term policy decisions that lock in the deficit for future years. This is what JWH did in spades. He took one off windfall revenue gains (and this is the cringeworthy part ->) with huge unprecedented long term revenue negative asset sales to cut taxes to the well off. The LNP have decided that this is clever economics And ala Britain, Greece, The USA have committed themselves to not only continue the tax cuts but to 'fix' the deficit by further (revenue negative) asset sales and savage cuts to everything. Neo-con government fundamentally questions the point to any government existing and sets about dismantling the bits that aren't directly lining the pockets of the wealthy.
Which would actually do what Negative Gearing was meant to achieve. Especially as the new houses would have to meet modern building codes and are much more likely to be redeveloped as medium density.

I know the actual facts of the deficit and national debt, I'm just commenting on the sweet doublethink required to simultaneously hold the views "Labor left us with a horrible budget deficit which we have to fix ASAP", "that we've increased the deficit in our previous budgets is actually not a problem" and "if we modify tax policy to generate more revenue, we should cut taxes and thus do nothing to reduce the horrible, terrible deficit", much less express them within sentences of each other.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 07:38

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

asio posted:

the man is girly

This is your own projection. Nothing about the word fop implies girlishness. Maybe your framework is warped or something.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 08:52

sick of Applebees: Nov 7, 2008

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

This is your own projection. Nothing about the word fop implies girlishness. Maybe your framework is warped or something.

From your quote about current usage: dandy
or: someone who takes care in his appearance like a girl. Whatever you might think, it's definitely implying that to most people that hear it.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 09:50

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=as76cG_vnb4

Still more dignified than our deputy prime minister.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 10:15

BlitzkriegOfColour: Aug 22, 2010

Ket posted:

From your quote about current usage: dandy
or: someone who takes care in his appearance like a girl. Whatever you might think, it's definitely implying that to most people that hear it.

I guess I don't parse it that way since, to me, taking care in one's appearance is not the sole domain of women? In fact I don't even think of it as a womanly trait. It's you. You're the real sexist.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 10:16

Lizard Combatant: Sep 29, 2010; I have some notes.

Ket posted:

From your quote about current usage: dandy
or: someone who takes care in his appearance like a girl. Whatever you might think, it's definitely implying that to most people that hear it.

I have no horse in this race but that's not the definition of dandy, did you get that from urban dictionary or just make it up yourself?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 10:17

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

I've always understood a Dandy to mean a well dressed (male) fool or charlatan

# ? Feb 14, 2016 10:50

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

What about Space Dandy?

# ? Feb 14, 2016 11:02

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# ? May 29, 2024 23:05

NPR Journalizard: Feb 14, 2008

Ket posted:

From your quote about current usage: dandy
or: someone who takes care in his appearance like a girl. Whatever you might think, it's definitely implying that to most people that hear it.

Its not to me.

# ? Feb 14, 2016 11:11

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