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I'm not sure what closing this will solve, unless you intend to use the old Libertarian thread as a quarantine instead. Don't permaban jrod though, he's endlessly entertaining. Like a cat chasing a laser pointer, but you don't feel bad laughing when he hits his head on the furniture. Anyway, I'm fine with closing statements. So, why should we care about property rights? Ultimately, we really shouldn't. The idea that property rights are a moral concern on par with other human rights leads inevitably to clashes between them, and ultimately that conflict will be decided with force. Private property is simply not a stable moral basis for a just society, as any glance at history or philosophy would tell you. So where do we look for a better moral standing? In the spirit of the thread, here is a list of thinkers who have influenced my personal views.
I would add feminist and race theorists on the list, but I am embarrassingly poorly read on those topics and would welcome suggestions.
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Feb 14, 2016 04:39
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If this thread is closed then Jrod will have
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Feb 14, 2016 04:44
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I believe Al should instead change his avatar to a handsome picture of Vladimir Ilych Lenin and perhaps a relevant quote once per day. This should provide a steady cash flow into this forum which Lowtax can use to pay off his crippling bitcoin debts.
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Feb 14, 2016 04:59
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VitalSigns posted:In the spirit of this thread I'm repudiating the statist tyranny of intellectual property rights and plagiarizing my closing statement. I consent to joinder  Who What Now posted:If this thread is closed then Jrod will have But then I'll have to venture outside my bookmarks tab.
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Feb 14, 2016 05:03
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I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. It certainly has helped me to question the conservative ideologies which my parents and grandparents (mostly them) taught me to follow. I was never a self declared libertarian and now I feel that I'm even further away from that ideology and have even abandoned the conservatism I grew up with. In short, I only have jrodefeld to thank for opening my eyes to how hosed up minimal government is. Though now I have to suffer through all my friends' inane posts on Facebook where they make false equivalency arguments about Bernie Sanders and socialism. (Like "Socialism has killed 118 million people," and now this nonsense where nobody understands how a super delegate works, despite it barely taking me 5 minutes to figure out on my own). So, thanks jchode, but also gently caress you, too. Now I have to go back through this thread and start ordering books from Amazon so I can actually start deciding what political theory I should support now that I'm not a conservative anymore...
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Feb 14, 2016 05:08
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YF19pilot posted:I have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread. It certainly has helped me to question the conservative ideologies which my parents and grandparents (mostly them) taught me to follow. I was never a self declared libertarian and now I feel that I'm even further away from that ideology and have even abandoned the conservatism I grew up with. In short, I only have jrodefeld to thank for opening my eyes to how hosed up minimal government is. Though now I have to suffer through all my friends' inane posts on Facebook where they make false equivalency arguments about Bernie Sanders and socialism. (Like "Socialism has killed 118 million people," and now this nonsense where nobody understands how a super delegate works, despite it barely taking me 5 minutes to figure out on my own). full communism now
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Feb 14, 2016 05:13
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Eat the rich. Full communism now. Don't forget to tip your waiter and then pass legislation that bans paying employees below the minimum wage when they can earn tips.
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Feb 14, 2016 05:14
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Nationalize all industries based around the extraction of natural resources and use the profits of those industries to fund a national healthcare system and free education for all.
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Feb 14, 2016 05:17
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Jrod has promised me an opened sewage pit filled with unpasteurized infants' blood to wash my balls in. What have statists done for me?
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Feb 14, 2016 05:36
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Literally The Worst posted:full communism now Okay, so Marx and Engels it is. paragon1 posted:Nationalize all industries based around the extraction of natural resources and use the profits of those industries to fund a national healthcare system and free education for all. I'm on the fence about this, but would definitely support nationalizing the power/electric industry and using the profits to subsidize electricity (or even completely free) for the poor.
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Feb 14, 2016 05:45
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Nationalizing the power industry would also end bullshit like the anti-solar intiatives in Florida.
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Feb 14, 2016 05:50
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Nolanar posted:But then I'll have to venture outside my bookmarks tab. You like Warhammer? I'll put in a good word* for you in the 'ham thread that isn't total poo poo**. You can hang out there with me and some other cool dudes***. *my word means nothing to them **Im lying, it's poo poo ***they are all degenerates
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Feb 14, 2016 05:51
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Legalize marijuana. Then start a federal program to grow a whole poo poo load of really great weed. Then sell that weed at a reasonable price and convenient locations nationwide. Then put on some really great tunes and maybe make some spaghetti.
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Feb 14, 2016 06:03
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Who What Now posted:You like Warhammer? I'll put in a good word* for you in the 'ham thread that isn't total poo poo**. You can hang out there with me and some other cool dudes***. Death thread best thread.
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Feb 14, 2016 06:29
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't think this thread is going places. How about a page of closing statements followed by closure? I DO NOT CONSENT TO THIS FLAGRANT VIOLATION OF THE NAP, PER ADMIRALTY LAW YOU MUST YIELD YOUR AUTHORITY Realtalk now, I concur that jrod should never be permabanned, he's harmless and brings entertainment to a small group of people in D&D. Close the thread if you must, but I'm not sure what purpose that will serve
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Feb 14, 2016 06:36
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YF19pilot posted:Okay, so Marx and Engels it is. There are worse authors to start with, even if you end up disagreeing with them entirely. Also check out Antonio Gramsci while you're at it. Oh! And Rosa Luxembourg. As for nationalization - Yes, absolutely, yes. Certain things really should not under any circumstances, be left to the 'free market'. Healthcare being the most obvious and immediate example, but firefighting, sanitation, infrastructure, etc. are all things where the state can do a much, much better job than any market-enthusiast could ever hope to try. Which is, incidentally, one of the most common complaints from capitalists: "If government begins to interfere in the market, we won't be able to make a profit/compete!" Gee, I wonder why that would be? TLM3101 fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 14, 2016 |
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Feb 14, 2016 06:42
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TLM3101 posted:Personally, I want to see if he has more Nazi-inspired policy he'd like to advocate for. Besides, I've learned a lot from other posters in the thread, and I like learning new things, so... We should lay an eugenics trap for him. Maybe find some quote from one of his pet ubermensch detailing how a DRO totally could stipulate the culling of disabled/handicapped people as part of its charter and get him to defend it.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:16
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Sephyr posted:We should lay an eugenics trap for him. Maybe find some quote from one of his pet ubermensch detailing how a DRO totally could stipulate the culling of disabled/handicapped people as part of its charter and get him to defend it. We've hit him with Aktion T4 propaganda lines more than once already and he's not taken the bait so far, though his revulsion at the prospect of supporting "useless eaters" is clearly just beneath the surface.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:25
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paragon1 posted:Legalize marijuana. Spaghetti is gross. Make tortellini.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:30
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I don't think this thread is going places. How about a page of closing statements followed by closure? There are no closing statements to make because ultimately, JRod failed to make any opening statement of value. He's a terrible debater who's style of discourse seems to be writing in a pseudo-intellectual style that's just dense enough to make the average person's eyes glazed over, as if the more he talks about something, the more he knows about it. He pushes an ideology that makes no sense, tries to find middle ground where it cannot exist, and doesn't want to accept that the world has rejected libertarianism. We don't want a Gangs of New York style of civilization going on. Perhaps JRod would be better suited to learn how life really worked, when there were essentially DROs, and what they served to do was keep the poor contained and away from the rich folk, but also make sure that they were supported whatever political machines existed. Because the reality is that rich people want to be protected, so they're going to create the means to do it. JRod dances from topic to topic before sticking with racism, despite protesting that he doesn't want to talk about it. I think he recognizes that people have eviscerated his arguments because many of us understand economics, health care, how companies work, and all that other jazz. He can only parrot what he's been told from Mises.org. So, of course, rather than attempt to have a meaningful conversation, he goes back to talking about how he's not a racist. Most of his arguments are just him restating his original point, just from different angles. He doesn't actually engage with how it works. And beyond that, he's a possible watermelon fucker. I think a thread on hard-right politics would be interesting, but it needs to be ran by someone who understands it and is willing to chum the waters. JRod doesn't understand it, and he's throwing himself into the shark tank. It's time to let Jaws finally have her meal.
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Feb 14, 2016 16:46
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Who What Now posted:Spaghetti is gross. Make tortellini. Fight me IRL.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:09
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paragon1 posted:Fight me IRL. U fokin wat m8?
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Feb 14, 2016 17:12
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Who What Now posted:U fokin wat m8? pistols and your best hanzo steel high noon roof of the DRO HQ be there or be square
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Feb 14, 2016 17:21
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*gently pats the scabbard of the cursed katana Makahizo* Soon, my trusty companion. Soon.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:46
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paragon1 posted:pistols and your best hanzo steel Point of order: being square is a requirement of continued existence in this covenant community.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:48
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L'etat, c'est l'amour.
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Feb 14, 2016 17:51
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Y'all are nerds
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Feb 14, 2016 18:18
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Closing statements? Well um... I can honestly say I've learned a lot about economics, the American Civil War, morality and the differing philosophies that guide morality, the complexities of international trade, and real estate from this thread. I just learned about them from a dozen or so people who aren't Jrod. He sucks and everyone else here is alright.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:47
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I wish jrod ever gave details about his dream business empire that can only form in Libertopia.
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Feb 14, 2016 18:49
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For my closing statements, I'm just going to point out again the two things that made me laugh off anything Jrod had to say: Jrod: "Qatar is a bastion of freedom!" (Please ignore the literal loving slavery in Qatar.) And of course: jrodefeld posted:But what if I was concerned about an ISIS attack on Los Angeles? Would I be unreasonable in being extra cautious about Middle Eastern men who were also Muslims? Would that make me a bigot, even though the clear evidence shows that nearly all ISIS members are Muslims who are of Middle Eastern descent? Yes it does Jrod, gently caress you and your abhorrent ideology.
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Feb 14, 2016 19:42
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SedanChair posted:L'etat, c'est l'amour. your post is a violation of my property rights, per the contract that you nonverbally agreed to when you posted in this thread you now owe me 100k bitcoins and a sloppy blowjob
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Feb 14, 2016 21:14
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If we don't hear from JRod again, I'm just going to assume he was Antonin Scalia all along.
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Feb 14, 2016 21:35
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This thread, as past Libertarian threads have done, has reaffirmed my support for the emancipatory science of Marxist-Leninism. Some capitalist fanatics try to hide their inner imperialist, but with time, they descend into fascism as they realize their religion is incomprehensible.
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Feb 14, 2016 21:35
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I have to say that before the Jrod saga began here I thought of Libertarians as goofy fat stage magicians and republicans who weren't so hosed up about gay people (and who could maybe be worked with, which I do still think about some), but now I'm pretty confident those people are just rubes and real-deal libertarianism at the think-tank level Jrod lifts from are closer to the madness of dark enlightenment people. I'm also more convinced than ever that Jrod is some kind of unpaid mises institute activist evangelizing the internet because they love doing that poo poo. Their lovely wrong ideas can't perpetuate themselves through successful real-life historical or modern examples (or by simple logic) so they have to send a little rat gently caress like Jrod out to spread their defective bullshit meme. Impoverished by the decision of his handlers not to pay him for his passionate work also explains why Jrod had to resort to selling pirated blu rays and simulating the human vagina with a little hole carved into a melon.
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Feb 14, 2016 22:02
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paragon1 posted:If you are any kind of moderator at all you will ban jrodefeld so that if nothing else he will have to pay at least I dunno, making Jrode pay  to undo the ban gives him an economic incentive to pirate more Hong Kong Blu-Rays, and I don't want to indirectly support theft. A real puzzler, that. 
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Feb 14, 2016 23:38
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paragon1 posted:He can always be banned more. On the other hand, maybe Jrode would finally understand what it means to be economically coerced after internalizing the frustration of having to shell out multiple times in a row in order to resume posting his libertarian word vomit.
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Feb 14, 2016 23:42
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For my closing statement I'll say that jrode never delivered my cheap pirated Chinese blurays and that's the only reason I posted against him in this thread. I really wanted that special edition of Kung-Fu Hustle.
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Feb 14, 2016 23:42
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For my closing statement I'll just reiterate what we've all been saying for a long, long time: Human interaction is a lot more complex than basic supply and demand you stupid fucker. Time to graduate to ECON 201 at loving least, dear god.
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Feb 14, 2016 23:44
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Is the thread actually ending? Uh, what to say... I like arguing with libertarians because they have such a different worldview from me. It is an interesting translational challenge, but only when they are willing to put some effort into it and keep it fresh. jrod was not willing to do either of these things and anyone else who came along to pick up his slack had no staying power. Oh well.
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Feb 15, 2016 00:10
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GunnerJ posted:Is the thread actually ending? Uh, what to say... *Orchestra swells* I had a dream this thread would be So different from the sperg I'm reading So different now from what it seemed Jrod has killed the dream I dreamed
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Feb 15, 2016 00:15
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