p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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the talent deficit: Dec 20, 2003; self-deprecation is a very british trait, and problems can arise when the british attempt to do so with a foreign culture

if that dude isn't trolling i don't want to be a programmer anymore

# ? Feb 15, 2016 00:57

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# ? May 9, 2024 01:47

Emacs Headroom: Aug 2, 2003

tef posted:

this awful post became this awful post http://programmingisterrible.com/post/139222674273/write-code-that-is-easy-to-delete-not-easy-to

that was a fun read. thanks tef

# ? Feb 15, 2016 02:13

mystes: May 31, 2006

That's nothing. Somone named "cake 42" not even knowing who Sartre is just slashdot-level bad. Hacker News can get way worse than that ("How I achieved a million dollars per year of passive income in 5 minutes by using machine learning to generate an app to exploit poor people in third world countries and you can too!")

mystes fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Feb 15, 2016

# ? Feb 15, 2016 03:24

weird: Jun 4, 2012; by zen death robot

fritz posted:

cake42 1 hour ago

�Every line of code is written without reason, maintained out of weakness, and deleted by chance� Jean-Paul Sartre�s Programming in ANSI C.
I just started the article and I already have problems with it, not a good sign. While it may be obvious when you research the timelines of JPS (he died a few years before ansi c 89 was established) and C , not to mention the miles of metaphorical distance between Computer Programming and JPS's work) . I guess the author was trying to be cute?? but that fabrication should be made clear as such. he's undermining his own inherent credibility as an author, however much the reader decides to put in. Serious problem in my book.

# ? Feb 15, 2016 04:44

Squinty Applebottom: Jan 1, 2013

weird posted:

lmao

# ? Feb 15, 2016 15:09

ultramiraculous: Nov 12, 2003; "No..."; Grimey Drawer

craisins posted:

the fact that this guy looked up that Sartre died in 1980 and didn't read anything else on the page is awesome

# ? Feb 15, 2016 15:51

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

hell is other people's code

# ? Feb 15, 2016 19:51

Gazpacho: Jun 18, 2004; by Fluffdaddy; Slippery Tilde

but sometimes it's your own

# ? Feb 15, 2016 20:00

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

my code is wonderful

it's that other soricidus jerk who keeps committing stuff in my repos a month ago that's the problem

# ? Feb 15, 2016 20:02

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

Gazpacho posted:

but sometimes it's your own

has anyone ever looked back on their own code and been satisfied

# ? Feb 15, 2016 23:41

MeruFM: Jul 27, 2010

occasionally i thank my past self for doing something that i didn't expect them to do making my current task much easier.

it's more like i have such low expectations of my past self that the automatic assumption is sabotage and chaos

# ? Feb 16, 2016 00:14

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

Sweeper posted:

has anyone ever looked back on their own code and been satisfied

Occasionally I will be about to write some script to make my life easier, but then I will realize that I already did it months ago and the script I wrote then is way nicer and more fully featured than I was whatever I was currently planning.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 01:08

tef: May 30, 2004; -> some l-system crap ->

Soricidus posted:

hell is other people's code

i got it

# ? Feb 16, 2016 03:44

craisins: May 17, 2004; A DRIIIIIIIIIIIIVE!

Soricidus posted:

hell is my own code when I have to fix a bug, say "who the gently caress wrote this?", then check SVN blame and quietly fix it

# ? Feb 16, 2016 05:15

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Sweeper posted:

has anyone ever looked back on their own code and been satisfied

often enough

# ? Feb 16, 2016 05:22

Maluco Marinero: Jan 18, 2001; Damn that's a
fine elephant.

Cocoa Crispies posted:

often enough

Sweeper posted:

has anyone ever looked back on their own code and been satisfied

I get that feel, but usually not from the code itself but the fact that it's still managing to succeed at its intended goal despite a long time passing, and I don't cringe at the prospect of altering it.

possibly a low bar, but in my book it's the only one that matters.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 07:43

sarehu: Apr 20, 2007; (call/cc call/cc)

Basically all code I've written in Haskell has held up to my standards today. I mean, except for the times I tried to actually write useful Haskell code -- they were all regretful experiences.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 07:46

VikingofRock: Aug 24, 2008

sarehu posted:

Basically all code I've written in Haskell has held up to my standards today. I mean, except for the times I tried to actually write useful Haskell code -- they were all regretful experiences.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 10:01

9-Volt Assault: Jan 27, 2007; Beter twee tetten in de hand dan tien op de vlucht.

haskell is really cool and good. i love it that the compiler keeps yelling at me until I get everything right. I am way too dumb for languages like Python and JavaScript.

# ? Feb 16, 2016 21:25

distortion park: Apr 25, 2011

tef's post is top of the pinboard popular list today
https://www.pinboard.in/popular/

# ? Feb 16, 2016 21:53

Sweeper: Nov 29, 2007; The Joe Buck of Posting; Dinosaur Gum

Charlie Mopps posted:

haskell is really cool and good. i love it that the compiler keeps yelling at me until I get everything right. I am way too dumb for languages like Python and JavaScript.

I like rust for this reason but I'm a big baby and can't stand coding without my beautiful ide which imports things for me ;(

# ? Feb 16, 2016 22:03

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Maluco Marinero posted:

I get that feel, but usually not from the code itself but the fact that it's still managing to succeed at its intended goal despite a long time passing, and I don't cringe at the prospect of altering it.

possibly a low bar, but in my book it's the only one that matters.

if it works and i can figure out why, that's satisfactory

wanting it to be some flawless beauty that lasts forever is for undergrads

# ? Feb 16, 2016 22:15

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

Bjarne Stroustrup posted:

Thanks, guys; you did it!

Here are a few comments from reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/cpp/comments/48zp05/what_we_added_to_the_c17_working_draft/

I feel c++17 is going to be very underwhelming. ... Zero of the things I was looking forward to are making the standard.
No modules. No concept. No ranges. Probably nothing new for concurrency, no transactional memory, no reflection, no contracts. ... Wake me up when 2020 ends. Edit : No coroutines

Well - promise of a renaissance is over. Ah well - we knew it could't last forever. ... I'm also worried about competition.

The saddest thing is the wasted momentum. ... It look like C++17 will be almost inconsequential. So at the earliest all the much awaited feature will land in 2020. 9 years after C++11. It's a sad long time. I'm afraid it won't help the image of C++ in the larger community.

I was really excited for concepts, uniform call syntax and modules. All these three are not in: this is disappointing to say the least

After all the things that were in C++11, this is kind of a letdown. Hopefully ranges, concepts and modules make it into the next standard.

What a boring update c++17 looks to be UFC : nope can't have nice things Modules: oh god, what is a module?! Let's debate for 10 years. Concepts: it's half rear end to begin with, but oh gawd, how about 15 year debate. Reflection: hahaha, nope suckers.

"Underwhelmed", "lack of momentum", and "competition" are key. C++17 will offer nothing to excite the community. We blew it.

lol

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:42

HappyHippo: Nov 19, 2003; Do you have an Air Miles Card?

they should just let c++ die already.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:51

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

are they still working on adding a GDI wrapper to the C++ stdlib, 15 years too late???

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:51

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

rjmccall posted:

lol

lomarf where's this from?

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:55

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

idk if you're going to treat a language as a religion wouldn't you pick one that's less loving stupid than c++

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:56

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

Symbolic Butt posted:

lomarf where's this from?

isocpp-all

bjarne is making GBS threads on the committee's work on the official public c++ announcements list because reddit is mad at something

# ? Mar 7, 2016 18:58

crazypenguin: Mar 9, 2005; nothing witty here, move along

well, bjarne is mad, not just reddit

i'm glad i discovered the wonders of sometimes dropping down to c from a high level language. life is better now that i don't c++

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:15

Soricidus: Oct 21, 2010; freedom-hating statist shill

Cocoa Crispies posted:

idk if you're going to treat a language as a religion wouldn't you pick one that's less loving stupid than c++

things that are noted for being rational and not having loads of dumb bits:
* religions.....?

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:35

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

for those who don't pay attention to c++, what are concepts and ranges

i understand modules (and i kinda want them to come to plain ol' c)

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:41

rjmccall: Sep 7, 2007; no worries friend; Fun Shoe

rjmccall posted:

isocpp-all

bjarne is making GBS threads on the committee's work on the official public c++ announcements list because reddit is mad at something

ok, yes. bjarne is using reddit being mad at something as supporting evidence for his overwhelming disappointment in the language evolution process because it deferred a bunch of half-baked ideas

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:42

Symbolic Butt: Mar 22, 2009; (_!_); Buglord

well tbf c++ has a lot of half-baked ideas in it already so.......

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:44

Vanadium: Jan 8, 2005

speaking as someone who hasnt followed c++ since like c++11:

ranges are basically iterators where you dont have to take care of both ends separately, i think.

concepts are constraints on type parameters so you get more reasonable errors at a more reasonable time when using weird template stuff. and i guess it makes some stuff more generic.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:54

Cocoa Crispies: Jul 20, 2001; Vehicular Manslaughter!; Pillbug

Suspicious Dish posted:

for those who don't pay attention to c++, what are concepts and ranges

i understand modules (and i kinda want them to come to plain ol' c)

unless you want special syntax for ranges it seems like something that's been implemented dozens of times in c++ already?

and c++ is running out of ways to have special syntax for things because there's so much already i think

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:56

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

Suspicious Dish posted:

for those who don't pay attention to c++, what are concepts and ranges

i understand modules (and i kinda want them to come to plain ol' c)

ranges are for loops.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:58

Suspicious Dish: Sep 24, 2011; 2020 is the year of linux on the desktop, bro; Fun Shoe

but we already have those???

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:59

GameCube: Nov 21, 2006

every one of those reddit complaints is some p-langer bitching that a specific thing they're used to using in their specific p-lang isn't in c++. i'm surprised significant whitespace and optional semicolons aren't on the list.

# ? Mar 7, 2016 19:59

raminasi: Jan 25, 2005; a last drink with no ice

GameCube posted:

ranges are for loops.

they're first-class for loops. as opposed to the state of the art, which is passing pairs of iterators around, which is annoying as heck.

GameCube posted:

every one of those reddit complaints is some p-langer bitching that a specific thing they're used to using in their specific p-lang isn't in c++. i'm surprised significant whitespace and optional semicolons aren't on the list.

ranges and concepts have been on c++ dorks' radars for years now

as someone who had to deal with ad-hoc concepts, reifying them in the language would be great

# ? Mar 7, 2016 20:04

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# ? May 9, 2024 01:47

pseudorandom name: May 6, 2007

Suspicious Dish posted:

for those who don't pay attention to c++, what are concepts

you know how when you pass a parameter to a template and you get 300 lines of error messages because templates are barely one step above text substitution?

what if instead of that garbage the compiler just said, "Yo, this thing needs to be Addable"

# ? Mar 7, 2016 20:05

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Serious Hardware/Software Crap > YOSPOS > p-lang thread: (now (have you (problems two)))

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