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Thoughts on this?Keyan, rage, b2, chopper
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Feb 15, 2016 06:23
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bunnyofdoom posted:Thoughts on this?Keyan, rage, b2, chopper I tried Rage on Keyan and it seemed gimmicky at best. Wouldn't recommend.
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Feb 15, 2016 06:33
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kingcom posted:I'm australian so literally anything is a good sale for me but bookdepository.co.uk has got some super cheap prices on the larger ships and do free international shipping. Yeah, for Australians I haven't found anything cheaper than book depository. I currently have my raider on the way from them and I got it for 2/3 of the price of would have in a store. I buy most of my stuff I at my FLGS because they are a genuinely good place to play some games but $150+ dollarydoos for Palpatine, the advanced fix and a cool looking paperweight felt a little steep. I still gave them $100 for the gozanti and that was with a discount 
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Feb 15, 2016 06:36
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I like the ~cool and hip~ nerd dad aspect of x-wing because you have 7 year old memes popping up like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqDbZRIOMY Wait 'til nova squadron starts posting doge memes!  This is actually pretty neat: http://lists.starwarsclubhouse.com/time_series . You can see just how varied the current meta is. Please don't mess it up, dengar and friends :O Chill la Chill fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 06:47
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Chill la Chill posted:I like the ~cool and hip~ nerd dad aspect of x-wing because you have 7 year old memes popping up like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqDbZRIOMY Downfall was a pretty decent movie. Wonder when the Disney spinnoff train will give us the Empire version of that. Grand Admiral Thrawn, holed up on Jakuu in a bunker, staring at a watercolor Mon Mothma did in a space college art appreciation class "looking for insight into her strategy" as the assembled admiralty casts sweaty sideways glances and tugs their collars.
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Feb 15, 2016 07:05
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Chill la Chill posted:I like the ~cool and hip~ nerd dad aspect of x-wing because you have 7 year old memes popping up like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpqDbZRIOMY Oh wow, I had actually forgotten about that meme! Excellent adaption, I must say - I think my dad will be taking a similar stance to Hitler (not often that I get to say that!), at least until ImpVets comes out 
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Feb 15, 2016 07:09
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Even if Boba Fett is All That, it means scum will have a list besides Thug loving Lyfe and Brobots, which is a good shake up IMO. E: Speaking of the next wave and the Space Hitlers, is the Inquisitor a viable economy ace? I haven't heard much buzz about him ITT (and this thread is 99% of my starwar toy talk), but he seems viable. For the same price as a naked Vader, you can have him at PS10 with Autothrusters and the title. Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 07:18
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Had a really fun game of X-Wing against Some Numbers tonight. He brought the 4x FO mini-ace list and I brought one of the XXB variations that I've been considering: Poe Dameron (31) Veteran Instincts (1) R5-P9 (3) Integrated Astromech (0) Ello Asty (30) Veteran Instincts (1) R2 Astromech (1) Integrated Astromech (0) Nera Dantels (26) Adrenaline Rush (1) Proton Torpedoes (4) Extra Munitions (2) Guidance Chips (0) Total: 100 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Turned out to be a great game with a lot of interesting maneuvering. To my semi-surprise Dantels easily earned her points. She vaporized one of the FOs with her munitions and then took absolutely forever to die, allowing Poe to clean up (though RIP Ello). I'd be strongly tempted to run Deadeye rather than Adrenaline Rush though; moving first makes it very hard shoot who you want to shoot due to having to target lock early, while Deadeye would have let me just dump torps into Omega Leader. Proton Torpedoes + Guidance Chips is nasty.
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Feb 15, 2016 07:58
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I flew kind of poorly and didn't focus fire the right X-Wing I think. Probably. I don't know, I'm still pretty bad at this game.
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Feb 15, 2016 08:05
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Some Numbers posted:I flew kind of poorly and didn't focus fire the right X-Wing I think. Probably. I don't know, I'm still pretty bad at this game. You called it almost perfectly on the clash though. I had good turns after that, but drat if you didn't get practically every bump and arc-dodge on that first turn. Thank goodness for Dantells.
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Feb 15, 2016 08:09
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I still chose to go after Ello instead of Regen Poe.
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Feb 15, 2016 08:10
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Some Numbers posted:I still chose to go after Ello instead of Regen Poe. You are not wrong. Though my opening maneuvers were also predicated on you going after Poe, so you totally threw a spanner into the works by jumping Ello instead.
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Feb 15, 2016 08:11
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Kilo147 posted:So, bought my first of three Defenders, and as soon as I start to put it together, the goddamn stand snaps off inside the TIE. I suppose it kinda helps, since I'll be repainting it in white, but how do I fix it, besides drilling and replacing with a brass rod? I might be a bit late to help but I had exactly this happen with an X-wing. We got the stand out by heating a drawing pin (a needle or something would work to) with duct tape at the end we wanted to hold. We heated the pin till it was fairly hot and they put it diagonally into the broken off peg. Once it had a minute to cool and harden the plastic again we pulled it out and the peg came out. Try at your own risk but worked for me.
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Feb 15, 2016 09:35
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Kilo147 posted:So, bought my first of three Defenders, and as soon as I start to put it together, the goddamn stand snaps off inside the TIE. I suppose it kinda helps, since I'll be repainting it in white, but how do I fix it, besides drilling and replacing with a brass rod? You could try the pin heating, or just drill into the stuck piece and superglue a paperclip or wire into the hole. Should be pretty easy to pull out.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:00
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Just had a couple of test games with this list to see how it flew. TIE Fighter: · "Wampa" (14) Targeting Computer (2) TIE Fighter: Academy Pilot (12) Lambda-Class Shuttle: Omicron Group Pilot (21) · Emperor Palpatine (8) TIE Phantom: · "Whisper" (32) Veteran Instincts (1) Fire Control System (2) Advanced Cloaking Device (4) · Agent Kallus (2) Remembered to choose Kallus' target both games but never once actually triggered the ability. Not sure if it never came up when I didn't have a focus or if I just forgot. Still won both games. Might drop the targeting computer and upgrade Kallus to a rebel captive. Wampa and palp is a loving great combo though. I'm not looking forward to dealing with the likes of a well flown soontir though. Gonna have to engineer some good blocks with the academy and palp.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:10
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:This is another big part of the difference between X-Wing and 40K. The far lower barrier to entry (both in terms of money and time) makes it far easier to be flexible with respect to a list. That said "community" is a misnomer. If you bring a poo poo list to the NOVA Open 40K tournament you will get murdered. On the other hand they specifically have narrative matches because competitive 40K can be unfun. I'm glad to see they run the narrative games at NOVA. As far as I'm concerned, X-Wing doesn't really fit into the overall "genre" of miniature wargaming, the heart and soul of which will always be the narrative campaign. Warhammer was born out of historical wargames where the primary goal was to ask the "what ifs" of history, rather than provide anything resembling a competitive sport with balanced rules. The nature of history is to be unbalanced. That's why I don't have as much of a problem with Age of Sigmar as a lot of people (it's very possible to decide with your opponent what would make a cool battle without needing arbitrary numbers that GW never balanced properly anyway), and it's why I love the overall focus of Forgeworld's Horus Heresy rules on different campaigns that tell different aspects of an overall story. It's a way to creatively engage with your models, and it fosters the designing of new characters and individual stories. Competitive Warhammer just feels like a complete oxymoron to me. Why would you ruin the model-making aspect of the game by trying to shoe-horn in a system that drives people into min-maxed cookie-cutter armies that leave little room for creativity? X-Wing is totally different to that, because the focus is on tight, point-controlled pick-up games without any narrative context, just set in the cool Star Wars universe. I love it, but it's basically apples and oranges. Even the campaign supplements feel like tacked-on extras to the meat of the game, which is all in the 100 point matchups and the quick, easy to dive into ruleset.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:32
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Endman posted:Competitive Warhammer just feels like a complete oxymoron to me. Why would you ruin the model-making aspect of the game by trying to shoe-horn in a system that drives people into min-maxed cookie-cutter armies that leave little room for creativity? The fact that trying to make a powerful army leads to min-maxed cookie-cutter armies that leave little room for creativity is a failure of Warhammer, not the genre. There are plenty of good wargames where creativity and powergaming aren't mutually exclusive, and one is in fact required for the other.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:37
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Endman posted:I'm glad to see they run the narrative games at NOVA. Source your quotes. It will always blow my mind that someone out there doesn't understand that a tight, point-controlled game makes it even easier to build a strong narrative scenario. EDIT: Oh wait you post in the 30k/40k threads a fair bit so you might be genuine. Let me explain something, because I know exactly what kind of power and flow im dealing with in a tight, point controlled game. I can quickly and easily develop asymmetric scenarios because I know how much of a shift that will create. I know how many X-wings and Y-wings a ragtag fleet should have to hit past an imperial fleet if I want to have them fly inside a star destroyer and blow it up from the inside. Nobody is going to get shafted because the mutual agreement is going to actually gently caress everything up because Tyranids are broken garbage messes but nobody understand that from a numbers perspective. kingcom fucked around with this message at 11:51 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 11:43
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 You can always ignore points and build whatever scenario you want, the Good Games With Balance police won't come to your house and arrest you for forging a narrative.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:47
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Otisburg posted:
I mean this poo poo makes me angry and I have no idea why. I use x-wing as my space combat system for my Edge of the Empire game. I run a narrative campaign with my friends as rebels/scum getting gear/ships/fleet as they go but this game is not able to run a narrative campaign? I used to play 40k and make narratives work but without fail everything would collapse because we undervalued some unit or faction that was broken and it became an unfun mess.
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Feb 15, 2016 11:57
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Yeah, I never understood how people can prefer a system without points like AoS, simply because they are now free of the crippling constraints of a points system. Is just ignoring points that hard? If you are going to play a casual game with a friend anyway, and you both agreed that you don't care if it is balanced, then ignore away: having the points allows you to flexibility to attempt to do balanced games (although the balance is reliant on how well the game is designed) while still allowing for casual 'just bring whatever you want' games. In the end, even in AoS units have point costs, it's just that the designers of the game couldn't be bothered to calculate them. Which doesn't solve anything apart from making people come up with homebrewed comp systems that only cause the community to fraction.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:01
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Endman posted:I'm glad to see they run the narrative games at NOVA. I don't think 40k ever would've been anywhere near as popular without the point system to give the notion that it could be something competitive, though. I don't think "pretty models" and "zany story" is what made it as big as it was. Without those points, it probably sits in the bin with a bunch of other historical games that expect the players to figure out how to apply the system.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:08
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Panzeh posted:I don't think 40k ever would've been anywhere near as popular without the point system to give the notion that it could be something competitive, though. That makes me sad, because the models and the "zany story" are exactly what got me into the hobby. I can't imagine spending hours in my day painting tiny dudes because I need X points of space punchers or I won't win big at the tournament. Conversely with X-Wing, I don't have to paint anything, so if a list doesn't work I just grab something else and it's no big deal because it wasn't a significant investment of both time and energy to make precisely the force I did, it was just putting down some cards and some pre-painted plastic in a certain order. kingcom posted:Source your quotes. You make a good point. I guess I'm just used to rulesets and modelling not gelling well that I've become accustomed to systems that require a degree of fudging to be truly fun and tailoring the campaign environment to what people want to paint rather than what actually works. Hombrewing is super common in basically every tabletop game myself and the people I play with are involved in. Not having a point system like AoS seems fine to me because GW wouldn't have gotten it right even if they tried, which is inexcusable when you're asking for such a significant buy-in, but has a weird sense of relief when you're used to how terribly they usually do. I just like painting little plastic dudes and having them fight other little plastic dudes 
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Feb 15, 2016 12:28
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Endman posted:I just like painting little plastic dudes and having them fight other little plastic dudes We all do, and it's a good thing that's awesome and fun.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:33
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guts and bolts posted:Primary Weapon Turret. Lol I always parsed it as Pancake with Turret. Re: Inquisitor. I think he'll definitely have a place at the table. He's very similar to Jake, and I've had good success with Jake, except, rather than Jakes anaemic 2 die at range three, the inquisitor hits harder than an Interceptor/X-Wing. Give him Prockets and PTL and dance at range three before going for the kill at range 1 with TL & focused Prockets. Edit: I'd run it like this: TIE Avanced Prototype: · The Inquisitor (25) Push The Limit (3) Proton Rockets (3) Autothrusters (2) TIE/v1 (1) TIE Interceptor: · Soontir Fel (27) Push The Limit (3) Stealth Device (3) Royal Guard TIE (0) Autothrusters (2) TIE Defender: Onyx Squadron Pilot (32) Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1) TIE/x7 (-2) Throw the defender up in their grill as the bait ship, as it's not a closer, then hope it tanks enough damage to let inquisitor and soontir pick apart the list enough to get it to a favourable end game. With evades out the arsehole and enough arc dodge it's a pretty slippery list. hoiyes fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 12:41
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You either need to be able to balance the armies themselves, or balance the scenarios, and even for the latter, it is generally easier to do it if you have some basis on how you shape the scenarios. If you have the weaker army have 100 points and the stronger 150 points, then the scenario needs to provide an objective/win condition in favour of the weaker army in order to roughly equal the disparity in materiel. Most historical games can tweak with scenarios in a meaningful way because usually you have a fixed number of troops per side. The best example of a huge disparity in the fixed number of units per side being balanced by a well thought out objective/win condition is Empire of the Sun, which is a board wargame centered around WWII in the Pacific. Even by the middle of the game it is impossible for the Japanese to match the industrial output of the US, but the win conditions are tailored to account for that. Within scenarios for AoS, the sides aren't fixed, are they? You still need to come up with a composition on your own and since the scenario doesn't account for the composition of your armies, it is impossible to come out with a balanced scenarios unless you playtest the scenario itself until you find the perfect composition (and in essence, you are now doing the job of the designer) and it becomes even harder because you don't have points to actually base your estimates on.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:45
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It doesn't always shake out this way, but tons of X-Wing lists that are fairly competitive also tend to be pretty thematic. Han defying the odds C3P0 calculates. Palpatine on a Lambda escorted by two aces is practically a scenario in its own right. Rogue Squadron X-Wings are pretty decent with good synergies, like Jansen and Opportunist Bully Wedge. TIE/lns generally want to swarm up and fly in formation. It does a pretty good job "feeling" like Star Wars dogfights even in open competitive play, IMO. Add some deliberate, considered imbalance and objectives and baby you got a stew.
Owlbear Camus fucked around with this message at 12:54 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 12:49
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Otisburg posted:Palpatine on a Lambda escorted by two aces is practically a scenario in its own right. I always imagine I win as long as I manage to sink the Palpmobile. I've actually never beaten VSP. One of the reasons I won my FLGS's Store Champs is because I didn't get it in any of my matchups.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:52
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Endman posted:I always imagine I win as long as I manage to sink the Palpmobile. https://youtu.be/WEvAEfT3st8?t=3465 This is how my last game against VSP ended.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:55
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Otisburg posted:Palpatine on a Lambda escorted by two aces is practically a scenario in its own right. I played a league with Howlrunner and Crack Swarm recently, and played three games against Palpshuttles. In my headcanon Howlrunner is basically Tom Cruise in Valkyrie.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:56
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Tekopo posted:You either need to be able to balance the armies themselves, or balance the scenarios, and even for the latter, it is generally easier to do it if you have some basis on how you shape the scenarios. If you have the weaker army have 100 points and the stronger 150 points, then the scenario needs to provide an objective/win condition in favour of the weaker army in order to roughly equal the disparity in materiel. The more I consider it, the more this makes perfect sense and I feel like I've been an idiot. Jesus it's a weird world when you find yourself defending design fuckups because you're not used to playing poo poo that's designed well.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:56
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Endman posted:The more I consider it, the more this makes perfect sense and I feel like I've been an idiot. It's okay. Now the healing can begin. I never thought a terrible game could be the subject of Stockholm syndrome
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Feb 15, 2016 12:57
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Endman posted:You make a good point. I guess I'm just used to rulesets and modelling not gelling well that I've become accustomed to systems that require a degree of fudging to be truly fun and tailoring the campaign environment to what people want to paint rather than what actually works. Hombrewing is super common in basically every tabletop game myself and the people I play with are involved in. Not having a point system like AoS seems fine to me because GW wouldn't have gotten it right even if they tried, which is inexcusable when you're asking for such a significant buy-in, but has a weird sense of relief when you're used to how terribly they usually do. We all love doing that! The best part about having a tight and balanced system is that I don't even need to think about anything but having the plastic dudes fight eachother! I can trust the system to do all the heavily lifting for me. Otisburg posted:It doesn't always shake out this way, but tons of X-Wing lists that are fairly competitive also tend to be pretty thematic. Han defying the odds C3P0 calculates. Palpatine on a Lambda escorted by two aces is practically a scenario in its own right. Rogue Squadron X-Wings are pretty decent with good synergies, like Jansen and Opportunist Bully Wedge. TIE/lns generally want to swarm up and fly in formation. It does a pretty good job "feeling" like Star Wars dogfights even in open competitive play, IMO. Add some deliberate, considered imbalance and baby you got a stew. Thats actually a pretty good point. The X-wing meta has consistently been pretty thematic. The two iconic lists for a long time for the Empire was a swarm of TIE Fighters charging in a tight formation or a Super Ace dodging and weaving around rebel ships as they cant even hit it back with a Decimator dumping salvos as firesupport . Compared to the Rebels Fat Han list which is all about the suped up millenium falcon cutting down anything less than a Vader level ace with ease. Theres a reason I look at any star wars space fight now, be it in Rebels or the movies and my brain just links that to a similar x-wing list. Endman posted:The more I consider it, the more this makes perfect sense and I feel like I've been an idiot. I feel literally everyone goes through these motions when they've spent ages with GW games. I did the same! AoS has actually been a really great thing for the game industry, purely because its gotten people to have a look at other games when they normally wouldn't have.
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Feb 15, 2016 12:58
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Panzeh posted:https://youtu.be/WEvAEfT3st8?t=3465  That's hilarious.My final game also came down to the wire with a Blue Sq. B-Wing vs. two Binayre Pirates and I only won because my opponent was more exhausted than I was and bumped his Zs into each other two or three times.
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Feb 15, 2016 13:00
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"Forging the narrative" in Warhammer is always manchild bullshit. 40k has the worst fluff in the world. Like brave knights massacring armies of good lady warriors and bathing in their blood to ward off evil
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Feb 15, 2016 13:32
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Endman posted:
Yeah, that was really tense. Straight up rolling 4 hits on the Han reroll without having to use the focus was.. whoa~
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Feb 15, 2016 13:34
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Panzeh posted:Yeah, that was really tense. Straight up rolling 4 hits on the Han reroll without having to use the focus was.. whoa~
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Feb 15, 2016 13:39
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alg posted:"Forging the narrative" in Warhammer is always manchild bullshit. 40k has the worst fluff in the world. Like brave knights massacring armies of good lady warriors and bathing in their blood to ward off evil Meh, I enjoy it. But then I also enjoy a universe where an elite military force is defeated by cannibal teddy bears, a guy makes out with his sister and the wisest thing in the galaxy is a goblin who lives in the swamp.
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Feb 15, 2016 13:45
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Tekopo posted:What happened? I don't have sound. Did the focus allow him to evade the extra hit that would have killed Han? Yep. That's exactly it. Direct hit was one of the crits.
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Feb 15, 2016 14:16
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Panzeh posted:Yep. That's exactly it. Direct hit was one of the crits. 
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Feb 15, 2016 14:28
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