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Witcher 3 isn't even as good as Witcher 2, and it falls into almost the exact same problems that goons grill Bioware games over. The story is better structured, but the characters are so loving uggghhhhhh... By the time Witcher 3 rolled around, the character writing had become so one-note and awful that I immediately knew every loving thing they were gonna do (Betrayal? What a shock!) They even sacrificed otherwise good character development (Djikstra) for the sake of being needlessly edgy. It thinks it's smarter than its audience, when it really isn't. It's the same reason I like KotOR 1 and hate KotOR 2. Beefstew fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 20:50
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Beefstew posted:Witcher 3 isn't even as good as Witcher 2. I wish you a speedy recovery from the massive stroke you've obviously suffered.
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Feb 15, 2016 20:53
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Not to derail too much, but that kind of opinion fairly depends on how much you're into open-world games. It's hard to argue that W2 had the better story (because come on, Bloody loving Baron) but it's relatively easy to propose the point that W3 got bogged down pretty badly in its open-world mechanics if you engaged them fully. I personally almost burned out at several points hunting down those question marks, for one.
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Feb 15, 2016 20:59
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Cross-Section posted:Not to derail too much, but that kind of opinion fairly depends on how much you're into open-world games. It's hard to argue that W2 had the better story (because come on, Bloody loving Baron) but it's relatively easy to propose the point that W3 got bogged down pretty badly in its open-world mechanics if you engaged them fully. Yes, this is a big part of it. I think open-world stuff just bogs games down and dilutes level design. Just look at the consistent downward spiral of the Arkham games. This was a big problem I had with Inquisition, too. But in that game, I at least had likable characters chiming in now and then to break up the monotony. Witcher 2 had a really inspired story and Geralt's arc was compelling. Letho is one of the best antagonists in RPG history. Witcher 3 was all just centered around the big, inevitable battle with the Wild Hunt, who totally lost all the mystique they had in the first two games and basically turned into orcs, rhetorically speaking.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:03
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Witcher 3 wasn't perfect but  at comparing it unfavourably with any of Bioware's kill the puppy/save the puppy efforts, especially when that effort is focused around taking the star wars extended universe seriously.I mean come on 'what if the force is evil for starting all these wars that we made up to sell more toys?' is not insightful.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:54
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Strategic Tea posted:I mean come on 'what if the force is evil for starting all these wars that we made up to sell more toys?' is not insightful. Yep. That's KotOR 2. A stupid game that wasn't made by Bioware.
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Feb 15, 2016 21:59
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RenegadeStyle1 posted:Good. It's either target him or the Tali sweat boys They're the same people. Just different levels of creepy. Neither are interested in the gameplay or story or themes, it's all about friendship simulator bullshit and catchphrases.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:20
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Lt. Danger posted:something something patrick weekes jessica alba post Was he the guy who wanted to make the asari mother squadmate responsible for the sinking of the Spanish armada?
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Feb 15, 2016 22:21
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sassassin posted:Was he the guy who wanted to make the asari mother squadmate responsible for the sinking of the Spanish armada? Maybe, but he's also the guy who wrote Mordin, Lair of the Shadow Broker, and the Tuchanka arc in ME3. So, like, the best stuff in the trilogy.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:23
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sassassin posted:Was he the guy who wanted to make the asari mother squadmate responsible for the sinking of the Spanish armada? Samara was also implied to be Shakespeare's "Dark Lady" in that cut dossier entry
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Feb 15, 2016 22:27
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I don't think there's a story that attracts more criticism from people who only read a summary of it on GameFAQs by XxX_Dark_Lord_Sephiroth_XxX, than the excellent KotOR2.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:30
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Beefstew posted:Maybe, but he's also the guy who wrote Mordin, Lair of the Shadow Broker, and the Tuchanka arc in ME3. So, like, the best stuff in the trilogy. Also Solas in DAI. However he also has some bad opinions and he's generally quite whiny and defensive as a person
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Feb 15, 2016 22:31
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Shadow Broker was poo poo. The Shadow Broker is a weird alien species we never see again? Great. Liara gets a boyfriend we never see again? Fantastic. Oh, most of the story happened in a comic book? Cheers. It was the point where encounter design became full wave-based mindless nonsense, too. Enter room, kill air-dropped grunts x 3, move on to next room. Garbage. You can cut ME2 Liara from the narrative completely and it all makes more sense, since she returns to being innocent ME1 scientist Liara in ME3 in every practical sense. Tuchanka was boring poo poo right up until the final sequence, which is admittedly great for the voice acting performances and the range of outcomes available.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:33
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Enhanced edition of LotSB released with not-Chambers as the Shadow Broker (boss fight intact). She lives and joins your crew ready for all the actual information gathering she does in the ME3.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:36
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sassassin posted:Shadow Broker was poo poo. The Shadow Broker is a weird alien species we never see again? Great. Liara gets a boyfriend we never see again? Fantastic. Oh, most of the story happened in a comic book? Cheers. Yeah but spectreing it up having car chases and shootouts and being space james bond was always the best stuff in the series for me, with just a dash of horrible ancient secrets to keep things ticking over.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:36
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Dan Didio posted:I don't think there's a story that attracts more criticism from people who only read a summary of it on GameFAQs by XxX_Dark_Lord_Sephiroth_XxX, than the excellent KotOR2. It doesn't even make sense, it's fiction, so by necessity the wars are made up by the writer.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:42
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DA:I stank. It has the blandest cast in any Bioware RPG by a pretty good margin.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:43
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Strategic Tea posted:Yeah but spectreing it up having car chases and shootouts and being space james bond was always the best stuff in the series for me, with just a dash of horrible ancient secrets to keep things ticking over. There's two minutes of that at the start and then it's a lot of tedious filler fights and shooting one (1) hostage.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:43
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Dan Didio posted:I don't think there's a story that attracts more criticism from people who only read a summary of it on GameFAQs by XxX_Dark_Lord_Sephiroth_XxX, than the excellent KotOR2. I've played through KotOR II several times trying to convince myself it's good. It didn't work.
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Feb 15, 2016 22:57
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Then how come you don't understand the story? Granted it's a jumbled mess at the end, but you got basic plot points wrong
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Feb 15, 2016 23:00
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I'm just never gonna understand playing through a game I don't like several times. Whatever floats your boat.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:04
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Beefstew posted:I've played through KotOR II several times trying to convince myself it's good. That's a really weird thing to do in the first place, but haha that you completely wasted your time on top of that.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:06
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Playing video games you hate is the modern day version of self-flaggelation.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:10
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CharlestheHammer posted:Then how come you don't understand the story? Granted it's a jumbled mess at the end, but you got basic plot points wrong Such as? I get it. It's just a turgid, operatic shitpile.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:20
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sassassin posted:Shadow Broker was poo poo. The Shadow Broker is a weird alien species we never see again? Great. Liara gets a boyfriend we never see again? Fantastic. Oh, most of the story happened in a comic book? Cheers. I remember how throughout ME1 and 2 there's this idea that the Broker is an AI or something (what else could monitor all that info?) - and then they're not.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:28
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Beefstew posted:Such as? The story of KotOR2 isn't 'the force is bad for starting all these wars' or even 'the force is bad', hope this helps when you next spend twenty hours 'playing' it.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:29
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Dan Didio posted:The story of KotOR2 isn't 'the force is bad for starting all these wars' or even 'the force is bad', hope this helps when you next spend twenty hours 'playing' it. That's literally Kreia's entire ideology, which the game spends the entire time loving fellating and consistently contriving plots devices to validate. I can't even conceive how you ignored this.
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Feb 15, 2016 23:35
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Beefstew posted:That's literally Kreia's entire ideology, which the game spends the entire time loving fellating and consistently contriving plots devices to validate. I can't even conceive how you ignored this. No, it isn't, Kreia's ideology is not at all that the force is bad because it causes wars. Her idea is that the force has failed, because in its current state it forces people into two opposing paradigms, and limits expression and choice. You are quite free to prove her wrong, and to argue with her, and the game never 'fellates' her. Which plot devices does it 'contrive' to validate her? Kreia spends most of the game 'fellating' the player character, in fact, because the Exile is so darned special. Shirkelton fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Feb 15, 2016 |
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Feb 15, 2016 23:42
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Does anyone have those "mental diaries of Javik in a synthesized galaxy" saved? I must read them again.
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Feb 16, 2016 00:54
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Beefstew posted:That's literally Kreia's entire ideology, which the game spends the entire time loving fellating and consistently contriving plots devices to validate. I can't even conceive how you ignored this. If you believe this, you ignored pretty much the entire ending and all of it's buildup. So either you played Kotor II several times through only to quit playing at the battle of Telos, in which case holy poo poo dude, stop wasting your time, or you are incredibly dense. Yes, the game's ending was unfinished, but you're ignoring pretty much every bit of characterization both Kreia and the Exile got if you think the game was fellating her.
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Feb 16, 2016 01:20
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Kreia is the villian of the game, how can you think the game supports her?
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Feb 16, 2016 02:18
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CharlestheHammer posted:Kreia is the villian of the game, how can you think the game supports her? well, the Catalyst was the villain of ME3, and
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Feb 16, 2016 02:19
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Pattonesque posted:well, the Catalyst was the villain of ME3, and Yeah but you actually fight her. Instead of capitulating immediately.
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Feb 16, 2016 02:25
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To put it as bluntly as possible: Kreia thinks the Force is an rear end in a top hat.
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Feb 16, 2016 02:30
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Pattonesque posted:well, the Catalyst was the villain of ME3, and Unlike ME3, none of the endings in KotOR2 involve you agreeing with Kreia and making her plans happen.
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Feb 16, 2016 02:34
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Dan Didio posted:Unlike ME3, none of the endings in KotOR2 involve you agreeing with Kreia and making her plans happen. sounds like the ends ... are Good
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Feb 16, 2016 02:43
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I've never played KOTOR or Jade Empire. JE is better, right?
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Feb 16, 2016 02:58
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Waltzing Along posted:I've never played KOTOR or Jade Empire. JE is better, right? They're pretty different. They both have problems. Jade Empire's probably the more interesting game, though.
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Feb 16, 2016 03:27
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*extremely Tina Belcher voice* uhhhhhhhhh http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/02/15/mass-effect-andromeda-lead-writer-leaves-bioware-to-join-bungie.aspx although who knows, maybe the game's writing is finished or close enough now?
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Feb 16, 2016 03:45
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Pattonesque posted:sounds like the ends ... are Good Well, it's still pretty bad, but because of budget cuts making events less coherent, but the basic idea is still there. It's not completely built on a foundation a cracked, uneven foundation of complete bullshit like ME3 because there was a clear plan behind it, even if it didn't work out. Though we will not speak of what the crappy books did to the characters after the game. Waltzing Along posted:I've never played KOTOR or Jade Empire. JE is better, right? I'd say KOTOR is better because JE seems like about half of the game was lost. They were clearly planning to make a big series out of it, but the original Mass Effect put it on hold and it's basically stillborn. Pattonesque posted:*extremely Tina Belcher voice* uhhhhhhhhh Well, this is not a good sign. Not completely unrecoverable this early in the new series, but still not good.
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