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wdarkk posted:Those stores aren't subdivided much at all, so it's entirely possible that nobody knows where all the fire is. This, the layout varies depending on store size and the whims of local and regional management and once you're inside the building there aren't really any barricades for a fire, in fact, most of the things inside a Walmart you could use to build a barrier would themselves be flammable and thus useless for this purpose. Inside a big box store, the difference between 'minor property damage' and 'everyone inside is dead' with a fire is based entirely on location of initial blaze and response time. If they keep propane tanks indoors and those go up, everyone's dead. If they have the wrong fire extinguishers next to the consumer electronics or the household chemicals, everyone's dead. If the shoes catch on fire, everyone will wish they were dead. If there's a grease fire next to the deli, they're probably fine, but if the floor was waxed recently, not so much. Now, it's not easy to start one of those kinds of fires, but in a perfect storm of flammability you don't want to be anywhere near one.
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Feb 16, 2016 04:31
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Who wants to make the documentary "Walmart: More insane than a German chemist?"
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Feb 16, 2016 04:47
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Wonder how much goes into ehs in Walmart. Also I delight in the irony of all the nasty poo poo that goes into making a computer used by crunchy moms to whine about chemicals on their blogs.
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Feb 16, 2016 05:03
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zedprime posted:Who wants to make the documentary "Walmart: More insane than a German chemist?" Honestly, much like German chemists and bookstores, Walmarts remain relatively safe despite all the flammable things inside them because no one in their right mind would start a fire inside one, and in the case of Walmarts and bookstores, you have employees all over the drat place who are at least hopefully trained in fire safety.
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Feb 16, 2016 05:07
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I don't always understand all the science in this thread, but god drat can you guys paint a word picture.
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Feb 16, 2016 05:08
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Kwyndig posted:Honestly, much like German chemists and bookstores, Walmarts remain relatively safe despite all the flammable things inside them because no one in their right mind would start a fire inside one, and in the case of Walmarts and bookstores, you have employees all over the drat place who are at least hopefully trained in fire safety. I don't know the technical process of it well, but cooking meth probably requires an open flame, right? Fire starting yes, right mind, not so much. Meth labs in Walmart: Pretty common!
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Feb 16, 2016 05:14
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Kwyndig posted:and in the case of Walmarts and bookstores, you have employees all over the drat place who are at least hopefully trained in fire safety. Look into your heart and tell us if this is true
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Feb 16, 2016 05:19
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Memento posted:I don't know the technical process of it well, but cooking meth probably requires an open flame, right? Fire starting yes, right mind, not so much. Depends, if you're doing the shake 'n bake the last thing you want is a fire. If you're cooking using one of the larger batch methods you'll need a heat source at some point. Also, whenever the police say 'meth lab' what they really mean is 'chemicals and paraphernalia for making methamphetamine'. The average consumer household is between three and four pieces away from being a meth lab by that definition, depending on what decongestants they stock and whether they have any automotive chemicals or camping fuels in the garage. This is one of the reasons why meth is so common in the Midwest, it's actually really easy (although dangerous) to make, although the toxic byproducts of meth production are nothing to sneeze at.
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Feb 16, 2016 05:35
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Heat source, yes. Open flame, no.
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Feb 16, 2016 05:49
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Memento posted:I don't know the technical process of it well, but cooking meth probably requires an open flame, right? Fire starting yes, right mind, not so much.
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Feb 16, 2016 06:07
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Gobbeldygook posted:99% of the time when you hear about 'meth labs' in the media, what they mean is "they found the ingredients to make meth inside of a 2 liter soda bottle". The shake 'n bath approach to making meth doesn't require heat; you just mix everything together in a 2 liter bottle (you use a 2 liter soda bottle because the reaction generates gas, so it needs to be able to handle some pressure), add some water, and the reaction proceeds on its own. If you don't vent the gas generated by the reaction from the two liter bottle now and then, it explodes. There are a couple other ways it can explode. Sometimes it doesn't like the way you're looking at it too
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Feb 16, 2016 06:28
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Found about this guy hiding Nobel prizes during WW2 by dissolving them in aqua regia and then precipitating them back out for the prize committee to re-strike after the war from the Periodic Videos channel. I really love when people do clever things like this. Are there any other instances where people have done stuff like this where it was for more than just a lab demonstration?
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Feb 16, 2016 07:02
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I've heard about another scientist who snuck his money out of the Reich by turning it into platinum wire which he bent into coat hangers, smuggled out, and later resold. Supposedly Hevesy also made early use of radioisotope tracers to find out whether his landlady was making the hash she served in the morning from scraps of last night's dinner.
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Feb 16, 2016 07:31
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-Zydeco- posted:Found about this guy hiding Nobel prizes during WW2 by dissolving them in aqua regia and then precipitating them back out for the prize committee to re-strike after the war from the Periodic Videos channel. “I used aqua regia to dissolve two friends’ Nobel Prizes and hide them right under the Nazi’s noses, and then I won one for myself.” is such a badass boast. darthbob88 posted:I've heard about another scientist who snuck his money out of the Reich by turning it into platinum wire which he bent into coat hangers, smuggled out, and later resold. Supposedly Hevesy also made early use of radioisotope tracers to find out whether his landlady was making the hash she served in the morning from scraps of last night's dinner. That was Austrian chemist Herman Francis Mark.
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Feb 16, 2016 07:42
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Gobbeldygook posted:99% of the time when you hear about 'meth labs' in the media, what they mean is "they found the ingredients to make meth inside of a 2 liter soda bottle". The shake 'n bath approach to making meth doesn't require heat; you just mix everything together in a 2 liter bottle (you use a 2 liter soda bottle because the reaction generates gas, so it needs to be able to handle some pressure), add some water, and the reaction proceeds on its own. If you don't vent the gas generated by the reaction from the two liter bottle now and then, it explodes. There are a couple other ways it can explode. Not only do you refuse the metric system, you take a metric word and spell it wrong. gently caress.
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Feb 16, 2016 09:01
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Sticky Date posted:Not only do you refuse the metric system, you take a metric word and spell it wrong. gently caress. It's li-ter not litray. I'll cut you!
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Feb 16, 2016 09:23
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Sticky Date posted:Not only do you refuse the metric system, you take a metric word and spell it wrong. gently caress. We're speaking English, not French.
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Feb 16, 2016 09:38
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Sticky Date posted:Not only do you refuse the metric system, you take a metric word and spell it wrong. gently caress. And the Polish spell it 'litr' and in Portuguese it's 'litro'. And in Arabic it's 'لتر'! That's nothing like 'liter', or 'litre', or for that matter the original name, 'cadil'.
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Feb 16, 2016 11:42
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Sticky Date posted:Not only do you refuse the metric system, you take a metric word and spell it wrong. gently caress. I’ve never understood why America has its own spelling for words it doesn’t use. It’s like if they decided to call the “River Thames” the “Tems River”—just to be different, not because there was a New World river that they gave a phonetic name.
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Feb 16, 2016 12:04
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Platystemon posted:I’ve never understood why America has its own spelling for words it doesn’t use. It’s like if they decided to call the “River Thames” the “Tems River”—just to be different, not because there was a New World river that they gave a phonetic name. Noah Webster had an axe to grind.
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Feb 16, 2016 14:28
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Toast Museum posted:Noah Webster had an axe to grind. And he used it to simplify spelling by cutting letters out wherever he could get away with it. Even American English is still a loving mess though and could use another pass.
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Feb 16, 2016 14:38
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As strongly as I feel about the issue this isn't the thread for a language slapfight. Chemicals in the brain are dangerous because they compel us to have such arguments, discuss. 
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Feb 16, 2016 14:42
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Yeah sorry about that, after I hit the post button I thought something like this might happen... Relevant question: Where are most of the terrible chemicals manufactured? China? Third world countries? I'm imagining horrible wastelands with mutants. Does the rest of the world regulate and consider how a particular chemical is manufactured and it's effect on the environment, or is it just out of sight out of mind like most other industries?
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Feb 16, 2016 22:07
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Platystemon posted:That was Austrian chemist Herman Francis Mark. Natch, I was hoping that was the one paranoid about his landlady.
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Feb 16, 2016 22:25
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Munin posted:Natch, I was hoping that was the one paranoid about his landlady. That was Hevesy, same guy who dissolved the Nobel medals. Here you go.
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Feb 16, 2016 22:39
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Sticky Date posted:Yeah sorry about that, after I hit the post button I thought something like this might happen... China, India, some in the US, some in Europe. Some of the chemicals in this thread can't be safely transported so they have to be synthesized on site even if their precursors and their finished products (what people use them to make) are stable. In the US and Europe there are all kinds of safety regulations preventing companies from just dumping toxic poo poo in their backyard. Well, now anyway.
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Feb 16, 2016 23:10
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Sticky Date posted:Yeah sorry about that, after I hit the post button I thought something like this might happen... Semiconductor stuff is concentrated in the northwest and northeast but my understanding is the quantity of nasty stuff at a given time is closer to a college lab than a refinery. Modern mining and fracking needs crazy amounts of chemicals and is dotted around the flyover states. Battery companies chasing electric car subsidies seem to be springing up in Nevada due to extremely competitive tax agreements. If you haven't caught on, the horrible secret is its everywhere, even if its not at the scale of a refinery or even small chemical plant. For example, ever seen a cylindrical rail car? That's chemicals. How about one that is white and orange, or black? Those are the paint schemes for run far away from the crash. Pesticides are often blended or down-packed in the local market. The company I used to work for operated a refrigerant plant in Orange County, California until the land became more valuable than the products. Modern society is built on the back of chemistry and the market can ebb and flow, but its not really something you can offload all to India and China like telecom outsourcing. Regulation, as ever, is herding cats. India and China ape all the most important parts of US and EU safety and environmental regulations, but don't generally follow through on punishments. e. Just because you put gas in your car nonchalantly every week doesn't mean its any less of a chemical that needs monitored and contained lest it leak out and gently caress all your well water up. zedprime has a new favorite as of 23:17 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 23:13
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The U.S. Chemical Safety Board has a lot of good videos, but these two in particular came to mind as examples of criminally incompetent companies injuring their neighbors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uo7H_ILs1qc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C561PCq5E1g
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Feb 16, 2016 23:20
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Platystemon posted:I’ve never understood why America has its own spelling for words it doesn’t use. It’s like if they decided to call the “River Thames” the “Tems River”—just to be different, not because there was a New World river that they gave a phonetic name. Contrary to popular belief, the metric system is actually in wide use in the US. Many things you buy have to have attributes listed in metric and imperial. Also, 'Liter' and '2 Liter' sizes are popular for soda, for some reason. 
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Feb 17, 2016 03:31
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Platystemon posted:The U.S. Chemical Safety Board has a lot of good videos, but these two in particular came to mind as examples of criminally incompetent companies injuring their neighbors: These videos are great, but its always depressing when it does not end with the companies board of directors in prison.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:27
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Sticky Date posted:Yeah sorry about that, after I hit the post button I thought something like this might happen... Terrible chemicals are manufactured everywhere. They're also used everywhere. "Terrible" is a rather emotionally-laden term, however, and not very informative. Every chemical (even water) can be terrible in its own way. The problems don't come from the manufacture of said chemicals, the problems come from them getting into places they shouldn't be. That's largely a function of how strong government regulations are and how strict oversight is.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:32
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Kwyndig posted:China, India, some in the US, some in Europe. Some of the chemicals in this thread can't be safely transported so they have to be synthesized on site even if their precursors and their finished products (what people use them to make) are stable. In the US and Europe there are all kinds of safety regulations preventing companies from just dumping toxic poo poo in their backyard. Well, now anyway. That's an infuriating article. quote:In 1953, the Hooker Chemical Company, then the owners and operators of the property, covered the canal with earth and sold it to the city for one dollar. Yeah, you know *why* they sold that property for a buck? It wasn't because they were trying to unload a toxic property on a bunch of unsuspecting homeowners. The canal was part of an abandoned project, and the *city* started using it as a dump site for its trash in the 1920s. Then the Niagara Power company gave Hooker Chemicals permission to take the canal over and use it for chemical waste. Hooker did everything it was supposed to do by the regulations of the day; it drained the canal, lined it with clay, and started stacking its drums, all the while the city and the army kept using it as a trash dump. Eventually the city stopped using it as a dump, Hooker became the sole owner of it, and they finished using it in the early 50s and capped it . It was the Niagara School Board that wanted the property to build more schools. They started out offering a real purchase price for it, and Hooker said "Are you nuts? There's all kinds of toxic chemicals buried there." Niagara threatened to *eminent domain* the dump site, so Hooker said "Look, we'll sell this to you for a buck, so nobody can say we tried to profit from it, and we're even going to escort you to the site and dig test wells for samples right in front of you. THIS PLACE IS SILLY CONTAMINATED WITH TOXIC WASTE AND WE DO NOT WANT YOU TO BUILD SCHOOLS AND HOMES THERE. Seal it off and don't let kids play there, you idiots." Not only did the city proceed to do just that, it dug up chunks of the clay cap to use for fill, and broke through the clay lining to run water pipes. So what was a reasonably-executed dump site, for the day, now would let in rainwater to corrode the drums, and allow leaking chemicals to wash out. Highway construction blocked drainage into the river, so the thing overflowed into big pools that wound up in the backyards of nearby homes. But yeah, it's *Hooker's* fault for selling the property to the city for a buck. Full Battle Rattle posted:Contrary to popular belief, the metric system is actually in wide use in the US. Many things you buy have to have attributes listed in metric and imperial. Also, 'Liter' and '2 Liter' sizes are popular for soda, for some reason. And contrary to popular belief, English units are actually in wide use in other countries. Road signs in the UK are marked in miles, the speedometer in your car reads in miles per hour, people give their weights in English units, etc.
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Feb 17, 2016 04:51
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It's fun passing a tanker truck, glancing over, and seeing fluorine written on the side of it. Definitely did a double take and stepped on the accelerator.
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Feb 17, 2016 05:48
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I was driving through part of Canada one day and saw a truck that said "MOLTEN SULFUR" on the side. I had about the same reaction 
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Feb 17, 2016 13:21
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I get a little nervous passing any lorry since I’ve see what can happen if they have a blowout. Compared to that, the contents are a remote risk.
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Feb 17, 2016 13:38
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DemeaninDemon posted:It's fun passing a tanker truck, glancing over, and seeing fluorine written on the side of it. Definitely did a double take and stepped on the accelerator. There is not enough horsepower in the world to get me far enough away from that truck.
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Feb 17, 2016 15:06
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I've discovered demolition's hot new craze: http://www.eba-d.com/assets/product-sheets/Primasheet-2000-PrdctSht-For-Gen-Use.pdf You can buy RDX/PETN by the sheet now, and have for 20 years apparently. That's wicked cool. I'd like to see a building wrapped in explosives then detonated, I can't even imagine what that would look like.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:39
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Mortimer posted:I've discovered demolition's hot new craze: http://www.eba-d.com/assets/product-sheets/Primasheet-2000-PrdctSht-For-Gen-Use.pdf Well, now we know what company  got his start at. I never knew that explosive welding is a thing  quote:Metal Hardening—Primasheet® 2000 can be utilized
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Feb 17, 2016 16:54
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Deteriorata posted:Terrible chemicals are manufactured everywhere. They're also used everywhere. "Terrible" is a rather emotionally-laden term, however, and not very informative. Every chemical (even water) can be terrible in its own way. That's such a chemists answer, but it's why "Things I Won't Work With" is such a great tag and such a great blog. When words like bad or awful are too subjective, things can get downright poetic when explaining to us laypeople why you would not want to see or handle some absolutely fascinating thing. "You still don’t know what you’re dealing with do you? The perfect oxidizer. Its molecular perfection is matched only by its reactivity. I can't lie to you about your chances, but... you have my sympathies. Fools!"
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Feb 17, 2016 17:01
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Deteriorata posted:Terrible chemicals are manufactured everywhere. They're also used everywhere. "Terrible" is a rather emotionally-laden term, however, and not very informative. Every chemical (even water) can be terrible in its own way. I'm fond of calling chemicals things like only justified by extreme usefulness and only safe because of extreme oversight.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:15
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