|
Ferrinus posted:I came in towards the tail end of Revised and I'm a die-hard nWoD fan so for my money, yes. I think the idea that the WoD taking itself seriously means the same thing as the WoD being less fun or exciting comes at least in part from a lot of the people who e.g. saw Ascension Revised as a traitorous plot to turn Mage into Vampire. I wonder what that guy's been up to lately since he's managed to get banned from every place he might ever interact with someone who wrote for the OWOD.
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 20:09 |
|
|
Rohan Kishibe posted:Part of the thing I find with tabletop games is that just because people are playing games doesn't mean they are buying them. In the entire time I've been playing games with my current group of compadres, I can list all the books that anyone who isn't me has bought. One guy bought the 4e Player's handbook, one girl bought the mouse guard box set, and one dude bought Edge of the Empire. That's it. They all either rely on me bringing my stuff or, in the last guy's case, play homebrews of game systems they bought like 20+ books for back in the late 90s. That ain't great for making money. People not buying more than a few books and using those for eternity has been the festering sore of the RPG industry since pretty much its inception. There's basically no money in making the RPGs because they don't sell well. Elricsson's oWOD-focus is probably not as stupid an idea if he wants to capture the European market, but his visions of returning to the glory days of mid-90's White Wolf are completely misguided, because the market that devoured Masquerade doesn't exist anymore, and cannot exist anymore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:37
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:It'd have to be a CoD game, which is to say that it could run the gamut from Amnesia: Dark Descent to Saint's Row 4 to Endless Legend. What the gently caress. I'm talking about the general core feel that at least I got reading the core book, which was definately a lot more "think before you act, move carefully to uncover clues, watch your back, and be ready to run," that sorta thing. I most definitely did not get any sort of Saint's Row 4 or Endless Legend vibe.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I'm talking about the general core feel that at least I got reading the core book, which was definately a lot more "think before you act, move carefully to uncover clues, watch your back, and be ready to run," that sorta thing. I most definitely did not get any sort of Saint's Row 4 or Endless Legend vibe. That's because the corebook is about playing regular humans who stumble across the supernatural. Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Hunter, etc. hit different notes.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I came in towards the tail end of Revised and I'm a die-hard nWoD fan so for my money, yes. I think the idea that the WoD taking itself seriously means the same thing as the WoD being less fun or exciting comes at least in part from a lot of the people who e.g. saw Ascension Revised as a traitorous plot to turn Mage into Vampire. I'll raise you one: people who saw Revised as a conspiracy by White Wolf to ruin the thematic integrity of Ascension in other to run it into the ground so Vampire would be strengthened as a brand.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:41
|
|
|
unseenlibrarian posted:I wonder what that guy's been up to lately since he's managed to get banned from every place he might ever interact with someone who wrote for the OWOD. If we're talking about the same guy, he started a middling MMO review site that died out after 2 reviews. I haven't seen him post anything since.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:43
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:I came in towards the tail end of Revised and I'm a die-hard nWoD fan so for my money, yes. I think the idea that the WoD taking itself seriously means the same thing as the WoD being less fun or exciting comes at least in part from a lot of the people who e.g. saw Ascension Revised as a traitorous plot to turn Mage into Vampire. You're only die-hard because you regenerate all the damage you take every turn.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:44
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I'm talking about the general core feel that at least I got reading the core book, which was definately a lot more "think before you act, move carefully to uncover clues, watch your back, and be ready to run," that sorta thing. I most definitely did not get any sort of Saint's Row 4 or Endless Legend vibe. Even then, I can think of more than a few possible games with Moetals alone. Focuding on the oWoD instead of the nWoD will never not be a mistake.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:48
|
|
|
Ferrinus posted:That's because the corebook is about playing regular humans who stumble across the supernatural. Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, Hunter, etc. hit different notes. Thus me stating it would have to be CoD, not Vamp or Hunter. Is there even a CoD Hunter or Mage yet? I thought only Vamp and Wolf were fully in 2e.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:57
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Thus me stating it would have to be CoD, not Vamp or Hunter. Is there even a CoD Hunter or Mage yet? I thought only Vamp and Wolf were fully in 2e. "Chronicles of Darkness" is a setting that Vampire, Hunter, etc. are all set in. Imagine somebody saying that if you made a WoD game, it'd have to be a WoD game, e.g. fighting against Pentex in the name of Gaia.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 00:59
|
|
|
Well, speaking as one of the mouths of Saur.... I mean hosts of Darker Days, and the big CofD fan, the interview was a mixed bag. I laughed hard at the comment about Gothic Punk being dead. Because it is. It really is. Goth as a subculture is never going to be as big as it was in the late 80s and early 90s. I find the intersection, between those who think NWoD failed (in what was a lovely rpg market at the time) and those that cling to their crushed velvet and leather trench coats, amusing. It says a lot about what is a diehard ageing fanbase. This is coming from me, who would identify as "goth" to some degree. But then I got into Vampire in 99, and played that, Mage, and at uni VtDA, and a Technocracy game. But I went full on into NWoD and enjoyed running it. I think I tired of the Gen-X "Oh noes the millennium is coming, and all our new agey crap will save us if it weren't for the man". Turning 18 in 2001, the millennium has been less about fearing the future, and more about "new decade, new tech, same old poo poo, same old wars, same old bigots". Thus why the ennui of Requiem, the isolation of Forsaken, and the betrayed feeling of Awakening, are things I can connect with more. I really got bored of the "Science is evil, the modern world is evil, the modern world is all a conspiracy", hippy new age stuff.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:01
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:Most definitely. I didn't get into WOD in Revised so when people started accosting me for all the skeezy poo poo from Werewolf 1st and 2nd ed I was notably confused. I'm also pretty okay with CofD (at least 2nd ed, 1st ed Forsaken had some issues) Same LatwPIAT posted:People not buying more than a few books and using those for eternity has been the festering sore of the RPG industry since pretty much its inception. There's basically no money in making the RPGs because they don't sell well. Elricsson's oWOD-focus is probably not as stupid an idea if he wants to capture the European market, but his visions of returning to the glory days of mid-90's White Wolf are completely misguided, because the market that devoured Masquerade doesn't exist anymore, and cannot exist anymore. Yes, this is why we're seeing games with proprietary or special dice lately. FFG dice. And you may not NEED the special dice for Mutant Year Zero or The One Ring since they're just regular dice with reminder symbols but they're a good way to make a constant revenue stream without a supplement treadmill.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:06
|
|
|
Well, at least they're leaving nWoD under OPP's stewardship instead of flushing it down the toilet. That's something, I guess.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:11
|
|
|
I've been around for the whole WoD cycle, and I think that's why I have, at best, mixed nostalgia for the old stuff. The 2004 World of Darkness at least aged the concept with me somewhat, even if it occasionally lapses (recently reading Second Sight and realizing it labels professional skeptics as psychic madmen was a strangely offensive set of passages to me). And that's not to say I couldn't enjoy some Old World of Darkness nostalgia. But if I have a choice between Old World and Chronicles, I'll almost always be selecting Chronicles.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
Gilok posted:I can't tell if you're being sarcastic but yeah it kind of does. I'd kill for a Werewolf: The Apocalypse Vermintide game. A pack of five quip-heavy werewolves scythe their way through hordes of Pentex monsters and team up to take out the Formori and Black Spiral special enemies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:16
|
|
|
Yeah; TTRPGs aren't dying by any means, they're just not a very monetiseable industry. I mean, the real issue is that the RPG "industry" is essentially trying to get people to give it money for telling campfire stories with their friends, but still. I don't think roleplay will ever die so long as there are humans, though the means we roleplay will likely change throughout the ages. I am 100% sure there's been nerds roleplaying literally forever, though probably not how we'd recognise it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:17
|
|
|
Freeform roleplaying has always been big and has only gotten increasingly massive with the expansion of social media. They could be a massive potential audience. You just gotta a) convince them they need your rules, and b) convince them to buy them in the first place when they could just keep doing their own thing for free. I have no idea how to do either of those things. Far as I can tell, most of the industry doesn't even consider it. Although funny enough, with its heavy LARP background, WoD could/could've potentially made ingrounds there. You'd want something extremely light, built around conflict resolution between players rather then battle threats, and - this being the hard bit - something built specifically to online play via social media. And of course, you'd need something they have to actually buy, and make them actually WANT to buy it. So good loving luck.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:50
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Freeform roleplaying has always been big and has only gotten increasingly massive with the expansion of social media. They could be a massive potential audience. You just gotta a) convince them they need your rules, and b) convince them to buy them in the first place when they could just keep doing their own thing for free. Well, the other issue is a lot of that is tied to a particular fandom or property, and that's what they wanna do, not some rando TG setting.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 01:59
|
|
|
Toph Bei Fong posted:As the quest for peak irony strives further and further, a multi-million dollar company that made all its money on producing addictive and absorbing games that take hours to play and generally have no set victory conditions, and has purchased the IP from the producer of even more addictive MMOs, decries modern technology and advancements. "No, seriously, we're like the good guy hacker Tradition," the founder was quotes as he pushed his VR goggles up onto his forehead and hastily shoved a pile of money into a desk drawer, slamming it authoritatively.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 03:07
|
|
|
Just give me one more Bloodlines on PC and gently caress the IP you can have it back.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 04:26
|
|
|
I can't wait for 40 year old oWoD fan(s) to try and translate the gaia metaphor present throughout every single gameline (especially in vampire, replacing mother earth with Papa Caine) and watch it fail to get traction in TYOOL 2016. Look unto the Avatar movie, which for all of its 3D whizbang hasn't meant anything to the culture, because blue cat Ferngully was dated even back unto when Ferngully was released.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:07
|
|
|
Gerund posted:Look unto the Avatar movie, which for all of its 3D whizbang hasn't meant anything to the culture, because blue cat Ferngully was dated even back unto when Ferngully was released. It also made a shitton of money. "Culturally irrelevant but financially exceptional" is the best case scenario here.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:14
|
|
|
Kavak posted:It also made a shitton of money. "Culturally irrelevant but financially exceptional" is the best case scenario here. Apparently the truckload of money it made was goosed by the fact that people really only saw it in 3D. Less tickets were sold than some other gigantic hits.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:23
|
|
|
Kavak posted:It also made a shitton of money. "Culturally irrelevant but financially exceptional" is the best case scenario here. If the videogame publusher creates a great leap forward for their medium that happens to create no alternative revenue streams such as toys as seen with TFA or Jurrassic World, they'll have a chance to follow the path of Avatar 2009. On the other hand, its more likely that they will make a very good game and yet still fail because of the dated assumptions baked-in the material. James Cameron used an old story because he was working on the technology for about as long, and I have my doubts that a visionary of his caliber sits in the same team of Elder Foot-in-Mouth of Clan Toreador.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:32
|
|
|
Lightning Lord posted:Apparently the truckload of money it made was goosed by the fact that people really only saw it in 3D. Less tickets were sold than some other gigantic hits. Yeah, Avatar made a poo poo-ton of money because of its 3D visuals (which to be fair still probably haven't really been beaten). oWoD ain't got poo poo to cover that sorta thing.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:34
|
|
|
What's the over-under on PI rebooting Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:43
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Yeah, Avatar made a poo poo-ton of money because of its 3D visuals (which to be fair still probably haven't really been beaten). oWoD ain't got poo poo to cover that sorta thing. Bloodlines, but elevated to Super Mario 3-level cultural penetration. Other than that, ennnnnnnh.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:43
|
|
|
Toph Bei Fong posted:What's the over-under on PI rebooting Kindred of the Ebony Kingdom? Kingdoms of the Ebony Kingdom was alright, though? Bad mechanically, but the book was a much better attempt at non-european vampires than Kindred of the East.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:46
|
|
|
quote:I love the speculation and mystery surrounding future releases we saw in the 90’s, so we will definitely play with that aspect. This guy seems like a dummy. quote:Too bad [nWOD] never sold for poo poo and that old players hated it. It lacked the epic scope and the punk passion of the classic WoD. Had it done even remotely as well as the classic WoD things would be very different. Also kind of an rear end in a top hat???
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:48
|
|
|
alright guys werewolf is gonna be Captain Planet Chainsaw Murderers again but no escapist power fantasy got it?!?
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:51
|
|
|
One thread of hope to cling to is that if Obsidian is writing the story, they aren't going to play it straight- KOTOR II and Mask of the Betrayer basically told their respective settings they were full of poo poo. Though with Chris Avellone gone, I'm not sure if that's true anymore.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:54
|
|
|
My primary concern is that the draw here is the universe and nothing else. I get the impression the goal is to start producing books like the gameline never ended, continuing the metaplot where we left off only with a modern, European focus. "After the end times", as a concept, has almost no traction if the 'end times' weren't anything to write home about. If this were Vampire Mad Max then gently caress it, sign me the hell up. If it's just, "Hey remember this game? It's just like it was before! But newer!" than not so much. I'm also concerned about what their thinking for system here. While I think the old WoD system is uh, baroque to put it mildly, I don't have a lot of faith that Paradox is going to give WoD the Fantasy Flight treatment. Unless they just farm it out to Fantasy Flight. Actually hold on, I just thought of a way this could actually be cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 05:56
|
|
|
I'm personally super eager to see their take on the loving Assamites. Let's see how low we can dig.Kavak posted:One thread of hope to cling to is that if Obsidian is writing the story, they aren't going to play it straight- KOTOR II and Mask of the Betrayer basically told their respective settings they were full of poo poo. Though with Chris Avellone gone, I'm not sure if that's true anymore. Avellone never worked on Bloodlines. It was Mitsoda's baby. ...Though granted, he likewise doesn't work there anymore, and hasn't for some time.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 06:36
|
|
|
Cool videogames that could be done in the oWoD: - Vampire: the Dark Ages version of Crusader Kings - Obsidian RPG - Walking Dead-style gritty story game for Hunter: the Reckoning - Old Lucas Arts Adventure Game for Wraith: the Great War - Werewolf: the Wyld West by Platinum Games - Silent Hill-style horror game for Wraith: the Oblivion - Orpheus ghostbusting game (I like ghosts, ok?) And that's it, that what I've got. Everything else I come up with would be done better with nWoD.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 06:39
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:Avellone never worked on Bloodlines. It was Mitsoda's baby. I didn't even know that they had people from Troika, dang.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 06:39
|
|
|
ProfessorCirno posted:I'm personally super eager to see their take on the loving Assamites. Let's see how low we can dig. I'd be loving floored if they return the Get and Furies to their 1st ed portrayals. Literal Nazi Werewolves and militant cryptofeminists go.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 06:39
|
|
|
Kavak posted:I didn't even know that they had people from Troika, dang. I don't think it is anymore but Obsidian used to have a population of Black Isle->Troika->Obsidian folks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 07:06
|
|
|
As an (almost) 40 RPer who went all in on WoD in the mid 90's, that interview is kind of bullshit. Every edition change improved the game, especially the jump to CoD. While I am so glad that OP is getting free reign to continue their stuff, this update of WoD just seems a little dated to me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 07:07
|
|
|
Kurieg posted:I'd be loving floored if they return the Get and Furies to their 1st ed portrayals. Literal Nazi Werewolves and militant cryptofeminists go. Apparently there's some fooferaw over the Mind's Eye Theatre Werewolf playtesting, and Paradox/White Wolf had some input in the little setting tidbits sprinkled in? I have no idea how much of it is just the By Night Studios folks and how much, if any, is reflective of White Wolf's plans, but from what I saw when I glanced it over one of their free previews, the Get is diversifying from necessity. On the other hand, an "Age of Apocalypse" has been going on for nearly a decade, the entire tribe of Fianna are under a faerie curse of lover's truth placed by a werewolf's spurned lover the Samhain Queen, and the natural balance is replenishing Garou ranks by evolving dormant genes that are activated by a werewolf's bite, causing the Garou gene to proliferate through the subject's DNA. You know, the gene that makes you a shapechanging earth spirit person who can meditate to cross dimensions. It almost feels nostalgic.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 07:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 20:09 |
|
|
I Am Just a Box posted:Apparently there's some fooferaw over the Mind's Eye Theatre Werewolf playtesting, and Paradox/White Wolf had some input in the little setting tidbits sprinkled in? I have no idea how much of it is just the By Night Studios folks and how much, if any, is reflective of White Wolf's plans, but from what I saw when I glanced it over one of their free previews, the Get is diversifying from necessity. On the other hand, an "Age of Apocalypse" has been going on for nearly a decade, the entire tribe of Fianna are under a faerie curse of lover's truth placed by a werewolf's spurned lover the Samhain Queen, and the natural balance is replenishing Garou ranks by evolving dormant genes that are activated by a werewolf's bite, causing the Garou gene to proliferate through the subject's DNA. You know, the gene that makes you a shapechanging earth spirit person who can meditate to cross dimensions. Honestly, if that werewolf-bite bullshit makes it into the One World of Darknes proper we can probably just write-off werewolf as a whole, because there's no way the apocalypse war isn't going to spread to the entire human population between the Spirals and the Gaian garou trying to shore up their ranks.
|
|
#
?
Feb 16, 2016 07:18
|
|