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Elfgames posted:the whole movie screams fear. even down to the fact that they have to rewrite the second movie to make the protagonists roles bigger The one thing, more than anything, that kept me from watching The Force Awakens, was the smell of the marketing.
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Feb 16, 2016 13:04
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Harime Nui posted:If you boil down SMG senpai's post there basically the movie coulda been good if there wasn't all this fart sniffing about "oh, well, how will we make a star Wars movie in 2015, will people with smartphones get the Star Wars" when actually if they'd had the decency to just show some guys in costumes without a camera filter I swear to God you'd have a Star Wars. So what do you call the special edition with the red filter over the entire movie? quote:The one thing, more than anything, that kept me from watching The Force Awakens, was the smell of the marketing. I thought it was the Tarantino thing. quote:-The opening text tells us that Leia is still an active general, so the ships obviously haven't been there long. How long do generals usually serve in the Star Wars in your RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 14:09
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What's the big deal about the ships being 30 years old? In our current world the B-52 will nearly be 100 years old by the time it's retired. We still have helicopters and fighter planes built in the 70s in service. The Huey dates to the 50s and is still in use as a design. It's actually surprising to me that there aren't more examples of Old Republic technology around.
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Feb 16, 2016 14:25
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 This isn't rusted or weathered, and doesn't even show any signs of being scavenged, it's a children's toy left in a sandbox overnight. It does end up being a palpable metaphor for TFA though, an empty and soulless shell of what once was. Steve2911 posted:Luke Skywalker is in TFA though. Not any capacity that matters, movie could've ended with them flying off to find him for all the difference it made.
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Feb 16, 2016 14:27
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wyoming posted:
It obviously has been?? Look at all the holes and studf in the edges, look at thr pockmarks on the corners of the superstructure. Look at the fact that it's deeply burued in the sand. Also, I know that it's apparently impossible for this thread to believe anything about TFA if it can't be screenshotted from a trailer, but please try to remember what the interior of the Star Destoyer looked like. It's not exactly the bridge of the Executor! We see Rey scrabbling around and scavenging in a decayed environment, and then we see the reveal of the the exterior.
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Feb 16, 2016 14:46
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Edit: missread a post, disregard
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Feb 16, 2016 15:04
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wyoming posted:
It looks like a hosed up ship half-buried in the sand. Even when it crashed I'm sure it took a while for all of that sand to build up hundreds of feet high, not to mention it's clearly been scavenged on the inside. For all we know star wars spaceships are made with special materials that don't succumb to normal wear-and-tear and that's why it doesn't look "rusted or weathered". That X-Wing in the foreground pretty much says "Hey the alliance lost some fighters but the Empire lost everything".
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Feb 16, 2016 15:06
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Parachute posted:For all we know star wars spaceships are made with special materials that don't succumb to normal wear-and-tear and that's why it doesn't look "rusted or weathered". Or Jakku could be an extremely arid environment, making it less conducive to oxidation.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:14
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wyoming posted:
Joke post? The ship is hosed. It has holes in it. e: If that is a genuine parody of some of the poo poo spouted in this thread then well played.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:18
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Steve2911 posted:Joke post? The ship is hosed. It has holes in it. You can see parts missing the closer to the sand you get too.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:19
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We see the interior ruins of a ship being explored by a scavenger, outside the ship is still intact minus the initial battle damage that brought the ship down, crashing it into and burring it in soft sand. Nothing about this shot indicates age of said ship, which is what this discussion was about, it stands alone in a desert, save for the ruins of somehow untouched smaller ships, also crashed in a past war. But thanks for being in such a rush to prove me wrong you all ended up agreeing with me that it's an empty and soulless shell.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:33
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quote:
All I said about it was that you can see signs of scavenging around the sand, unless you think crash landings lead to geometric hunks being removed from wrecks piecemeal. Congratulations on winning though.
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Feb 16, 2016 15:36
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Empress Theonora posted:It's not as dramatic a shift in design as you see from the Republic to the Empire. But the Empire was a rejection of the Republic's values; the First Order was doubling down on the values of the Empire. The Empire's utilitarianism become an aesthetic in and of itself. I liked this post a lot, but I really wonder whether the streamlining of the Empire in First Order form is for the movie or for the movie's audience. It can be both, but it's a sadder state of Star Wars if it's only the latter. The biggest question the prequels had to answer plausibly was not "golly what happened to Righteous Dude Anakin Skywalker to make him Darth Vader?"; we've seen lots of people coming into this thread (generally LOL@prequels #prequelssuckamirite people) with what they would have rather seen him do. There were a lot of possible options for Anakin's fall. The biggest question the prequels had was "An empire spanning a galaxy of trillions would, on some level, need people to go along with it; how was there an Empire at all?" The people of the galaxy are complicit in the fall of the Republic, the rise of the Empire, and the fall of the Empire. So what role do the people of the galaxy play in the continued existence of an Imperial remnant? This is a question TFA doesn't answer and doesn't try to. Some big gaps in the storytelling are excusable when I come into a story at, say, episode IV; in this case, though, I have seen every episode leading up to this one. We know why Finn is in the First Order (a lifetime of brainwashing that . . . pretty much evaporates the first time he sees combat), but why is Hux there? So I totally buy "distilled Empire" from the visuals of TFA, but I don't see why it matters. This probably occurred to somebody else along the way, but it just occurred to me that Snoke and/or the whole First Order could be acting on Order 1 (of the sequence of Orders made famous by Order 66).
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Feb 16, 2016 16:10
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RBA Starblade posted:All I said about it was that you can see signs of scavenging around the sand, unless you think crash landings lead to geometric hunks being removed from wrecks piecemeal. Congratulations on winning though. I just find it funny I called it hollow and everyone disagreeing with me pointed out how empty it was inside. I was wrong, the ship does show some signs of scavenging, but it's not enough to change the shape of the ship, it's still maintains it's recognizable silhouette The x-wing in the foreground is even more damning really, it's busted up good, sure, but it's still just sitting there in the open, somehow in thirty years no one has scrapped it, nor has the sand buried it. So we get the idea that there's been a war and some scavenging exists. But what we're shown does a poor job of showing the passage of time and that scavenging is life on Jakku. That thing could've been down for a month for all the wear on the outside.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:11
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Isn't Kylo Ren kind of the hero of the new trilogy? Everybody else- Rey, Leia and the Resistance, the New Order- are nostalgic for OT and desperately want to bring it back. Only Ren knows that for the galaxy (the series) to move on, he has to kill his father (the OT). He does so for the greater good, even though it pains him, and even though he has to face the white-hot rage of Rey and Finn (Star Wars fans). Kylo Ren is Star Wars, and they don't like him one bit.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:24
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wyoming posted:
You do realize that deserts tend to be great environments for preservation? The lack of moisture and low PH of the sand tend to preserve things for, literally, thousands of years. This is a P40 that crashed in Egypt during WWII.  It's amazingly well preserved because of the desert conditions and that's over 70 years after it went down. If the deserts of Jakku are anything like Earth deserts you will start to see wind and sand erosion before you start seeing rust. And it will be millennia before that makes a noticeable difference. Keep in mind that the Great Sphinx is almost 5000 years old (we are closer in time to Cleopatra than Cleopatra was to the construction of the Sphinx)and it still has very readily identifiable facial features. I would imagine that the visual effects artists at ILM spent a fair amount of time finding out what something that had been in desert conditions for 30+ years might look like and they pretty much nailed it. Having a rusted out hulk would not make any sense for a desert planet because there won't be much in the way of rust.. There's a reason that even Egyptians that were not prepared for mummification are still found incredibly well preserved. Deserts preserve. Look I finally got to use my loving Archaeology degree for something! (Before someone gets pedantic it's a degree in Anthropology with a focus in Archaeology) ZoCrowes fucked around with this message at 16:41 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 16:38
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Toilet Mouth posted:Isn't Kylo Ren kind of the hero of the new trilogy? Everybody else- Rey, Leia and the Resistance, the New Order- are nostalgic for OT and desperately want to bring it back. Only Ren knows that for the galaxy (the series) to move on, he has to kill his father (the OT). He does so for the greater good, even though it pains him, and even though he has to face the white-hot rage of Rey and Finn (Star Wars fans). Kylo Ren is Star Wars, and they don't like him one bit. On the contrary, everyone else has let go of their OT stuff. Rey doesn't take her pilot helmet and doll with her from Jakku, Maz gives up Luke's lightsaber, Han and Leia say goodbye and let go of their OT relationship. Kylo Ren is the only one obsessing over OT memorabilia.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:39
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ZoCrowes posted:Look I finally got to use my loving Archaeology degree for something! That is interesting and cool, however film is a visual medium. It's not a question of "this isn't like real life" it's "this doesn't visually fit with the narrative" We see untouched and ageless ships, and then are told 30 years have gone by and scavenging is the way of life on this planet. It doesn't follow. homullus posted:On the contrary, everyone else has let go of their OT stuff. Rey doesn't take her pilot helmet and doll with her from Jakku, Maz gives up Luke's lightsaber, Han and Leia say goodbye and let go of their OT relationship. Kylo Ren is the only one obsessing over OT memorabilia. Eh, the plot of the film is to give back Luke his original lightsaber. And Rey gets the Falcon, why does she need the pilot helmet? Kylo is obsessed with Vader sure, but Vader was the chosen one, he brought balance to the force. I'm gonna guess that Kylo believes Luke hosed up the force and is trying to seek guidance from the guy that fixed it last time. I'm mostly on board with Toilet Mouth's reading, but Kylo is still misguided.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:51
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ZoCrowes posted:You do realize that deserts tend to be great environments for preservation? The lack of moisture and low PH of the sand tend to preserve things for, literally, thousands of years.
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Feb 16, 2016 16:54
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wyoming posted:
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Feb 16, 2016 16:58
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:We can understand how long ago that crashed just by looking at the photo because that is a recognizably WWII-era design. It clearly looks like the relic of a past war to an observer in 2016. In contrast, the X-wing in a similar state on Jakku looks not much different from the fighters that Resistance pilots fly throughout the film. The new X-wing is the P-51 to the crashed P-40. That's a jump of like 5 years. Did you read Dune yet
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Feb 16, 2016 17:02
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No but I haven't forgotten the obligation.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:03
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wyoming posted:We see untouched and ageless ships Seriously, we don't.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:05
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:We can understand how long ago that crashed just by looking at the photo because that is a recognizably WWII-era design. It clearly looks like the relic of a past war to an observer in 2016. In contrast, the X-wing in a similar state on Jakku looks not much different from the fighters that Resistance pilots fly throughout the film. The new X-wing is the P-51 to the crashed P-40. That's a jump of like 5 years. You're comparing designs from 70 years apart versus 30 years apart. What did fighter jets look like in 1986? If someone who didn't know anything about fighter jets came across one that had crashed in the desert 30 years ago, do you think they'd be able to tell, at a glance, when it came from?
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Feb 16, 2016 17:10
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homullus posted:Rey actually passes on being co-pilot of the Falcon, and she certainly didn't give up the helmet in a knowing upgrade to the Falcon. The moment her OT fantasy becomes real, she doesn't want any part of it, and wants to go back to Jakku. Everyone lets go except Ren. It remains to be seen whether Kylo Ren retains his Vader props. Kylo's lightsaber was the most mocked new Stars Wars thing pre-movie, I can't really say he's the one holding the old guard in high regard., he wants them all dead. Rey is the old Star Wars fan, it wouldn't be right to co-pilot the Falcon, that's sacred, but due to Kylo's actions, she ends up becoming the full on captain of the ship to restore Luke to his role of rebel hero. Once she realizes there's no Old Ben on Jakku to save her, she goes and finds him.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:10
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That airplane did not crash through the atmosphere of a planet like the star destroyer would have. What did the ship Anakin crash landed on Coruscant at the beginning of Ep3 look like (i don't have a screenshot)? It was charred as gently caress and not just from the battle. The SD is just sitting there with no evidence of what it should have been through in it's lifetime. It's a problem with much of TFA, things look nice and familiar but are missing the characteristic scars that time passing should have imparted on them.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:16
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wyoming posted:Kylo's lightsaber was the most mocked new Stars Wars thing pre-movie, I can't really say he's the one holding the old guard in high regard., he wants them all dead. He literally talks to the mask of Darth Vader and wants to be a new Vader so badly that he wears a mask that he doesn't even need to wear to live and makes his own janky lightsaber, and you say he doesn't hold the OT in high regard? And Rey doesn't pass on the Falcon because "it wouldn't be right," she passes because she wants to go back to Jakku. Jetting around the galaxy = not going back to Jakku to wait for her family.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:19
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wyoming posted:Kylo's lightsaber was the most mocked new Stars Wars thing pre-movie Was it? Most of what I heard was that it was cool. Also I agreed because it's a light-claymore and that's neat. quote:The SD is just sitting there with no evidence of what it should have been through in it's lifetime. What should have it been through?
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Feb 16, 2016 17:25
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Holy poo poo I cant believe we're arguing if TFA really shows how time passed.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:31
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Vintersorg posted:Holy poo poo I cant believe we're arguing if TFA really shows how time passed. Ackbar's getting old, man. Too old for this poo poo.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:34
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Vintersorg posted:Holy poo poo I cant believe we're arguing if TFA really shows how time passed. It's really sad, because some of these people actually impressed me with their arguments favoring the prequels, and made me look at those movies in a better light and appreciate them more. For some reason they feel like they have to bash TFA and end up going with stupid poo poo like this. I find it very disappointing and unfortunate.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:35
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homullus posted:He literally talks to the mask of Darth Vader and wants to be a new Vader so badly that he wears a mask that he doesn't even need to wear to live and makes his own janky lightsaber, and you say he doesn't hold the OT in high regard? And Rey doesn't pass on the Falcon because "it wouldn't be right," she passes because she wants to go back to Jakku. Jetting around the galaxy = not going back to Jakku to wait for her family. The mask thing is brilliant though, when he takes off the mask while interrogating Rey, the horror isn't that he's monster in a mask, it's that he's a handsome man. Rey is so dedicated to the old ways she ends up mangling his face so he now needs a mask. I don't get your instance on his love for his grandfather being the only OT worship in this, there's the reverence for the Falcon, Han's bizarre love for the bowcaster, Leia leading a resistance, Han being a smuggler... And you seem to be ignoring the end of the film, Rey is rewarded with the Falcon and the mission of seeking out Luke to make things as good at the OT again. She wants to go back to Jakku yes, until she's forced to realize no Old Ben is going to show up and save her from a mundane life, she has to do something on her own. Kylo teaches her this. wyoming fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 17:38
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Empress Theonora posted:But, of course, the modern ships aren't identical to the old ones. Like that cool transition in design you see over the prequel trilogy from the the elegance of the Republic to the chunky utilitarianism of the Empire, the look of the First Order tells the story of a hardcore fringe devoted to reviving the idea of the Empire and pushing its ideas even further. Stormtrooper armor is streamlined, stripped of most of its old greeblies and details, reduced to its most basic iconic shapes. The guns those stormtroopers carry and the TIE fighters that support them are now in the same distinct black and white two-tone design-- an aesthetically coherent fighting force. The Resurgent-class Star Destroyers, with their lower bridge towers, flatter profile and sharper edges, emphasize the dagger shape of the old Star Destroyers. They're not identical, no. They're updated a little bit. Yes, all the things you said are technically true. But none of that comes across clearly on screen. You should be able to look at a design and in half a second understand everything it has to communicate to you. The designs in TFA don't do that, because the differences are way too subtle, and the shots aren't set up to emphasize those subtle differences particularly well. It's all about emphasizing the similarities to the old movies:  This is the absolute worst angle that could possibly be used if the idea was to emphasize how different the new Star Destroyers look. But i's a pretty good angle if you're trying to minimize the differences. In fact, it's just about the best angle for that. It's as if the design team and the director were working at cross-purposes. And what you're trying to describe here isn't even a particularly new idea. TESB already did this exact thing, and in a far more effective way:  That's immediately and obviously an entirely new kind of Star Destroyer. It's flatter, sharper, more streamlined, and stripped down to the most basic kind of dagger shape. And just to drive the point home when it's first introduced, it's shown compared directly against the old Star Destroyer designs. Which is exactly what I'm talking about. You need to use all the elements of visual storytelling together in order to tell a clear and coherent story. You can't just flatten out the design a bit, shoot everything specifically to emphasize the similarity of the new designs to the old designs, and expect everyone to immediately grasp that this is supposed to represent a 30-year paradigm shift. Seriously, look at this thing. The iconic simplicity of its design is amazing, and clearly and instantaneously communicates everything you're meant to know about what it represents compared to the old Star Destroyers:  If anything, the Star Destroyers in TFA are a step backward from the Executor in terms of design aesthetic.
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Feb 16, 2016 17:57
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MrSmokes posted:It's really sad, because some of these people actually impressed me with their arguments favoring the prequels, and made me look at those movies in a better light and appreciate them more. For some reason they feel like they have to bash TFA and end up going with stupid poo poo like this. I find it very disappointing and unfortunate. Showing how well a movie communicates something visually is the biggest defense of the prequels and original films. TFA is weak in that regard. RBA Starblade posted:Was it? Most of what I heard was that it was cool. Also I agreed because it's a light-claymore and that's neat. Looking back at the thread after the first teaser it was a mix of "awesome" "stupid" and "awesomely stupid!"  But the majority of the focus was jokes on it, yes.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:04
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wyoming posted:Looking back at the thread after the first teaser it was a mix of "awesome" "stupid" and "awesomely stupid!" Oh yeah I remember that photoshop now lol quote:That's immediately and obviously an entirely new kind of Star Destroyer. It's flatter, sharper, more streamlined, and stripped down to the most basic kind of dagger shape. It occurs to me that the Star Destroyer is to the Executor as the Death Star is to the Starkiller. RBA Starblade fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 18:04
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I just assumed they always had Executor but for lore reasons it was never needed until things escalated the way they did.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:07
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MrSmokes posted:It's really sad, because some of these people actually impressed me with their arguments favoring the prequels, and made me look at those movies in a better light and appreciate them more. For some reason they feel like they have to bash TFA and end up going with stupid poo poo like this. I find it very disappointing and unfortunate. How unfortunate that you seem incapable of formulating a substantive rebuttal. Anyway, I'm not bashing TFA. I enjoyed the movie for what it was. Really! It's a decent movie. I'm simply pointing out some of its widely overlooked flaws which prevent it from being a great movie. All the criticisms of TFA people are posting here are really so incredibly, incredibly mild when you consider what's been said in the past about other movies in the series. It's weird that people in this thread get so incredibly defensive about the slightest technical criticisms being made of TFA, a movie which has met with near-universal critical and popular acclaim, and which has quickly become one of the highest-grossing movies of all time. RBA Starblade posted:It occurs to me that the Star Destroyer is to the Executor as the Death Star is to the Starkiller. Starkiller Base is a fine concept, in theory. Unfortunately, the filmmakers were apparently too self-conscious to play it straight and without irony, which is the only way these things can work. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Feb 16, 2016 |
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Feb 16, 2016 18:09
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wyoming posted:The mask thing is brilliant though, when he takes off the mask while interrogating Rey, the horror isn't that he's monster in a mask, it's that he's a handsome man. You are mistaking continuity with characters revering the OT. Han Solo is, in that universe, a famous smuggler and General in the Rebellion, and Leia is a famous Princess, Republic senator, and General in the Rebellion.. Chewbacca, in that universe, uses a bowcaster. Kylo Ren talking to Darth Vader's melted helmet and keeping it in Vader's ashes is somewhat like "Rey pretends a bit wearing discarded Rebel helmet and has a pilot toy," except she leaves that behind. Neither is at all like "Millennium Falcon is broken down and up on cinder blocks in the front yard and nobody even knows it's the Falcon." I'm NOT saying that Kylo Ren is bad in TFA. Kylo Ren is a more thoughtfully-created character than any other two TFA characters combined. He is the only one who holds the OT in a death grip, though.
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Feb 16, 2016 18:14
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wyoming posted:That is interesting and cool, however film is a visual medium. It's not a question of "this isn't like real life" it's "this doesn't visually fit with the narrative" We see untouched and ageless ships, and then are told 30 years have gone by and scavenging is the way of life on this planet. It doesn't follow. No poo poo film is visual but there also needs to be a sense of verisimilitude to ground the fantastic. Just because it's not what you imagine wreckage in the desert looks like does not mean poo poo. The wreckage on Jakku look like wreckage that has been in the desert for decades. They are not untouched and ageless by any stretch of the imagination. They are crashed, destroyed ships that have been laying in the sand for 30 years and they look the part. These real world examples that have been there for 70 years:    (This looks a hell of a lot like the image of the Star Destroyer engines we see in the trailer. Throw a little Millennium Falcon and Tie Fighter in there and it would have the same effect.) Very similar condition to the wreckage on Jakku that has been there for only 30 years:     It looks like that Star Destroyer is ready to take off any minute now! 
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Feb 16, 2016 18:15
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ZoCrowes posted:
It hasn't aged a day!!! 
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Feb 16, 2016 18:21
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