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Exodee
Mar 30, 2011

Damp and depressing.
It must be a goon in its
natural habitat!
There seems to be a bug where Specialists that previously took feedback damage from a skulljack keep taking the feedback damage whenever they hack anything else. It gets especially crazy if they manage to get a squad-wide hack bonus, since they'll get hit for 3 damage 6 times, which is usually enough to instantly kill them. Thankfully it only lasts for that mission, but saving and loading doesn't help.

So yeah, be careful when skulljacking.

victrix posted:

'Guaranteed'

Not only can you get hosed by LoSing a new pod from the charge, you get the added benefit of whiffing the swing and leaving your Ranger badly out of position!

I'm not bitter
I feel like swords should just get like a +10 Aim bonus and they'd be pretty decent early game, at least. That 90% chance to hit is just a bit too dicey in my opinion, except as a desperation move.

dyzzy posted:

I'm interested in seeing how good a colonel blade ranger can be in the legendary end game, but my hopes are not high after seeing how the arc blade fares vs. mid game enemies with dodge and beefy hp pools.
Just don't exclusively use the blade and they'll probably do fine. It's not actually called "the Blade Tree", after all.

I do think you need to have a concealed ranger to scout ahead for them, though, to make sure they don't activate extra pods. But then again you pretty much always want to do that anyway, at least on legendary.

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Zomborgon
Feb 19, 2014

I don't even want to see what happens if you gain CHIM outside of a pre-coded system.

Kenshin posted:

In my experience with a specialist who got Phantom, the unit thinks it is stealthed after your squad has broken concealment, but if you move it to within sight range of any enemy the pod will activate (even though the specialist moved into cover avoiding the red squares). Phantom Rangers of course work just fine.

Dunno what happened with your game, but my phantom specialist can get just as close as a phantom ranger.
:xcom:

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Der Kommander

Just had my Commander Ironman game die a terrible death because I couldn't back out to the main menu once I was given the gimmick to what I can only imagine is the penultimate mission.

If I'd known I only got 3 people I would've invested more heavily in the various things you were allowed to get. But I'd been destroying everything prior to that and with the Shadow Chamber telling me there were only 9 dudes I figured I'd have absolutely no problems. 1 Psyker, 1 Assault, and 1 Sharpshooter got murdered by a bunch of andromedons. Lame and dumb and bad.

I'm not even going to bother replaying. I got beaten by a gimmick and I'm super salty about it.

dyzzy
Dec 22, 2009

argh

Exodee posted:

I feel like swords should just get like a +10 Aim bonus and they'd be pretty decent early game, at least. That 90% chance to hit is just a bit too dicey in my opinion, except as a desperation move.

Just don't exclusively use the blade and they'll probably do fine. It's not actually called "the Blade Tree", after all.

I do think you need to have a concealed ranger to scout ahead for them, though, to make sure they don't activate extra pods. But then again you pretty much always want to do that anyway, at least on legendary.

My feeling is that the only big difference is reaper vs. rapid fire as far as play style goes. Wish there were more incentive to sword things.

FairGame posted:

Just had my Commander Ironman game die a terrible death because I couldn't back out to the main menu once I was given the gimmick to what I can only imagine is the penultimate mission.

If I'd known I only got 3 people I would've invested more heavily in the various things you were allowed to get. But I'd been destroying everything prior to that and with the Shadow Chamber telling me there were only 9 dudes I figured I'd have absolutely no problems. 1 Psyker, 1 Assault, and 1 Sharpshooter got murdered by a bunch of andromedons. Lame and dumb and bad.

I'm not even going to bother replaying. I got beaten by a gimmick and I'm super salty about it.

Were you able to dominate an andromedon? That helped me a lot.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

Exodee posted:

There seems to be a bug where Specialists that previously took feedback damage from a skulljack keep taking the feedback damage whenever they hack anything else.

Oh holy poo poo I thought I was going insane, I had hackers taking seemingly-random damage ticks on two or three missions over the weekend but nothing since. Now I know what to pay attention for at least!

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Der Kommander

dyzzy posted:

My feeling is that the only big difference is reaper vs. rapid fire as far as play style goes. Wish there were more incentive to sword things.


Were you able to dominate an andromedon? That helped me a lot.

Yes! And then he...immediately shook it off somehow? Can a codex cure mind control with its ammo vortex thing?

busb
Mar 19, 2009

Thorgie

FairGame posted:

Just had my Commander Ironman game die a terrible death because I couldn't back out to the main menu once I was given the gimmick to what I can only imagine is the penultimate mission.

If I'd known I only got 3 people I would've invested more heavily in the various things you were allowed to get. But I'd been destroying everything prior to that and with the Shadow Chamber telling me there were only 9 dudes I figured I'd have absolutely no problems. 1 Psyker, 1 Assault, and 1 Sharpshooter got murdered by a bunch of andromedons. Lame and dumb and bad.

I'm not even going to bother replaying. I got beaten by a gimmick and I'm super salty about it.

What are you specifically complaining about? the mission loadout screen specifies 3 troops, and you can do the mission with 3 troops just fine, especially with the extra intel tools. It also says there's no going back once you launch the mission before you send the avenger there and get to loadout too! I mean it surprised me too that i only had 3 troop slots, but you should have had at least 6 ace troops to pick from anyway?

what 'things' should you have invested in more? I did the mission with an assault, medic specialist and grenadier, and it wasn't ideal but it worked with some scrambling plays after i accidentally activated 2 pods at once.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I'm not entirely sure what you're supposed to do about retaliation missions with Chryssalids. It'd be fine if they don't start aware of you and attacking everything but they do. How are you supposed to outsave three packs of Chryssalids each chowing down?

RoboCicero posted:

Actually, I think the AI is coded to ignore bound units because if you ever mind control a Viper and bind someone, you absolutely can shoot the poor sucker who is being slowly constricted to death.

Also notably, turrets don't ignore bound units, so if you get pulled and bound in range of one you will very shortly be turned into corned beef hash.

That's good to know if I ever need to leave one bound.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007

Zomborgon posted:

Dunno what happened with your game, but my phantom specialist can get just as close as a phantom ranger.
:xcom:

Very strange.

I tested it on multiple occasions in different missions with savescumming and every time she'd get detected, and I never had any issues with a Phantom Ranger.

FairGame
Jul 24, 2001

Der Kommander

busb posted:

What are you specifically complaining about? the mission loadout screen specifies 3 troops, and you can do the mission with 3 troops just fine, especially with the extra intel tools. It also says there's no going back once you launch the mission before you send the avenger there and get to loadout too! I mean it surprised me too that i only had 3 troop slots, but you should have had at least 6 ace troops to pick from anyway?

what 'things' should you have invested in more? I did the mission with an assault, medic specialist and grenadier, and it wasn't ideal but it worked with some scrambling plays after i accidentally activated 2 pods at once.


Penultimate (I think?) mission spoilers ahead: The mission loadout screen specifies 3 troops. That's the first time you learn about 3 troops. You cannot escape out of the mission loadout screen. Thus, by the time you learn you only have 3 troops, you're committed and don't have a chance to buy the various intel tools. Which I skipped! Because I figured I'd have a squad of 6 that prior to that point had dominated the poo poo out of everything without needing special intel bonuses.

Thus, had I known "3 troops only," I would've bought all 4 intel tools because I was swimming in resources and intel and Col/Magus level troops.

Snowman Crossing
Dec 4, 2009

I beat the UFO encounter in my ironman game with a single surviving soldier left with 1hp. My entire roster was KIA aside from my highest ranking specialist who made it back to the ramp under fire from 5-6 enemies.

Colonel Cool
Dec 24, 2006

Harrow posted:

I'm already planning out my next campaign on Commander and I can't decide on early build order.

Guerrilla Tactics School is obviously the first thing, and Power Relay is obviously the third. But what's second--AWC or Resistance Comms? AWC makes sure that my wound timers will be reasonable, but Resistance Comms makes sure that I'll be able to access a facility assault if I need to. And a Workshop is probably fourth, because it's so helpful to get your builds snowballing early, which means that whichever I don't build second, I'll probably have to put off to fifth.

Thoughts?

I do Resistance Comms. GTS means you have a well rounded roster and a few soldiers having to sit out on wounds isn't a huge deal early game. Plus if you're playing right you shouldn't be getting hit all that often early game anyway.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Wait they can poison you just by being near you too? So Chryssalids:

-Start activated
-Know where you are
-Are in packs of 1 to 2
-Have three to four packs
-Can each attack civilians
-Can double move and kill a civilian since the standing poison attack does 4

I guess XCOM2 got sick of me beating retaliation missions.

Grizzwold
Jan 27, 2012

Posters off the pork bow!

busb posted:

What are you specifically complaining about? the mission loadout screen specifies 3 troops, and you can do the mission with 3 troops just fine, especially with the extra intel tools. It also says there's no going back once you launch the mission before you send the avenger there and get to loadout too! I mean it surprised me too that i only had 3 troop slots, but you should have had at least 6 ace troops to pick from anyway?

what 'things' should you have invested in more? I did the mission with an assault, medic specialist and grenadier, and it wasn't ideal but it worked with some scrambling plays after i accidentally activated 2 pods at once.

I kinda wish the ability to buy one-time buffs with intel came up more often. It seems like a really neat idea and I think it would have made all those datapad drops I got a bit more useful.

Ciaphas
Nov 20, 2005

> BEWARE, COWARD :ovr:


I keep telling myself I'm going to get past the eighth or so mission and then some bug or incident creeps up on me and I don't

I've never even gotten to abuse mimic beacons--not that I particularly want to, that poo poo just seems cheesy, but still

Jake please patch your game :(

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

lmao my kill zone sniper missed twice and let at least one enemy walk through the kill zone unimpeded. He wasn't out of ammo because he took another shot which he also missed. You know, for further confirmation that they're strictly inferior to gunslingers.

NJ Deac
Apr 6, 2006

Kenshin posted:

In my experience with a specialist who got Phantom, the unit thinks it is stealthed after your squad has broken concealment, but if you move it to within sight range of any enemy the pod will activate (even though the specialist moved into cover avoiding the red squares). Phantom Rangers of course work just fine.

I have exactly the same problem with my phantom specialist. Notably, concealment doesn't break and the specialist seems to not register to the enemies, but it definitely activates pods with LOS only to the concealed specialist as long as the rest of the squad is revealed.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?

victrix posted:

'Guaranteed'

Not only can you get hosed by LoSing a new pod from the charge, you get the added benefit of whiffing the swing and leaving your Ranger badly out of position!

I'm not bitter

It's part of the fun! Rangers who gently caress up die, rangers who don't continue on living!

It's why rangers are the best of the best!

Ignore the pile of dead dudes with clean swords in the back!

dogstile fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Feb 17, 2016

busb
Mar 19, 2009

Thorgie

FairGame posted:

Penultimate (I think?) mission spoilers ahead: The mission loadout screen specifies 3 troops. That's the first time you learn about 3 troops. You cannot escape out of the mission loadout screen. Thus, by the time you learn you only have 3 troops, you're committed and don't have a chance to buy the various intel tools. Which I skipped! Because I figured I'd have a squad of 6 that prior to that point had dominated the poo poo out of everything without needing special intel bonuses.

Thus, had I known "3 troops only," I would've bought all 4 intel tools because I was swimming in resources and intel and Col/Magus level troops.


Give it some time imo, the things you're talking about were nice, but not key to succeeding. I didn't even have dodge proc once, and hosed up concealment, but i'll admit the run and gun was absolutely key to keeping one of my dudes alive at one stage. I didn't buy the 4th intel reward because i couldn't be bothered scanning and waiting for it.

Also I realised about 2 turns into the final mission that i'd forgotten to equip a 3rd weapon mod on my dudes that i'd just unlocked, which sucked.

You won't be so blase about missions with no return in the future! Dying at the end is soul destroying in roguelikes, but in time you'll give it another go. The final mission is worth it, purely for the amount of 'oh gently caress, which tool do i use here to not get horribly murdered'.

I'm having a break before i start legendary ironman too.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Grizzwold posted:

I kinda wish the ability to buy one-time buffs with intel came up more often. It seems like a really neat idea and I think it would have made all those datapad drops I got a bit more useful.

Yeah, it was a great idea and I'd love to see it done as a general thing.

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

I just barely saved enough civilians to not lose that. Chryssalids are scary as gently caress now.

Also I think they're just broken and the animations don't work, not that they poison you by touch. Or at least, I hope it's just the game being broken.

busb
Mar 19, 2009

Thorgie

Grizzwold posted:

I kinda wish the ability to buy one-time buffs with intel came up more often. It seems like a really neat idea and I think it would have made all those datapad drops I got a bit more useful.

This absolutely! It was a cool idea and what intel should have been used for throughout the entire game, not as a currency to buy supplies. There should be a mod to jack up the supply rewards and prices, make black market tools all cost supplies, and have all planned guerrilla missions have intel buyins.

* It'd be cool if concealment wasn't a natural starting point on those missions, but had to be purchased with intel.
* Make it so you can purchase an extra turn or two on timed missions with intel, etc

ideally make it so intel feels like a rewarding and key thing for using on certain missions that you really need the boost, rather than just another numbered currency for buying items.

Kenshin
Jan 10, 2007

NJ Deac posted:

I have exactly the same problem with my phantom specialist. Notably, concealment doesn't break and the specialist seems to not register to the enemies, but it definitely activates pods with LOS only to the concealed specialist as long as the rest of the squad is revealed.

Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm pretty sure I saw it happen to beagle the week before the release, too.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves
I just discovered a mod that lets you have Advent helmets :allears:

Now I can pretend I have defectors from the Advent in my team despite the slightly lame plot being that they are clonethings not actual collaborators

Dinictus
Nov 26, 2005

May our CoX spray white sticky fluid at our enemies forever!
HAIL ARACHNOS!
Soiled Meat

Gridlocked posted:

I just discovered a mod that lets you have Advent helmets :allears:

Now I can pretend I have defectors from the Advent in my team despite the slightly lame plot being that they are clonethings not actual collaborators

Even better. The mod adds ADVENT armour for all weight classes.

EDIT: Oh, right, here it is.

Dinictus fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Feb 17, 2016

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Gridlocked posted:

I just discovered a mod that lets you have Advent helmets :allears:

Now I can pretend I have defectors from the Advent in my team despite the slightly lame plot being that they are clonethings not actual collaborators

Considering they're melting humans down into a gene slurry it's kind of more hosed up that they're just injecting that into sectoids and doing whatever instead of it just being John Traitor, imo.

Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Stealth that mission then the real Dark Souls begins.

khy
Aug 15, 2005

The big research image is nice and useful but too big and obnoxious for people who only want to answer a single question. "What corpses should I avoid selling". So I simplified and condensed it down.

quote:

CORPSES WHICH CAN BE SOLD FREELY (after research)
Muton
Advent Shieldbearer
Advent MEC
Advent Turret
Advent Officers
Archon
Andromedon
Sectopod

CORPSES WHICH ARE USED FOR PRODUCTION

* Advent Trooper Corpse
2x corpse needed for 'Hybrid Materials'
2x Corpse EACH for Nanoscale Vests
2x Corpse EACH for E.X.O. Suits
6x Corpses for Predator Armor

* Advent Stun Lancer Corpse
2x Corpse EACH for Spider Suit

* Sectoid Corpse
1x Corpse EACH for Mindshield
2x Corpse for Advanced Psi Amp

* Viper Corpse
2x Corpse for Battlefield Medicine
1x Corpse EACH for Nanomedikit

* Faceless Corpse
2x Corpse EACH for Mimic Beacon

* Berserker Corpse
1x Corpse EACH for Overdrive Serum

* Chryssalid Corpse
2x Corpse EACH for Hellweave Armor

* Gatekeeper Shell
1x Shell for Alien Psi Amp

I did this primarily for my own benefit but posted it here in case anyone wants a quick reference to corpses. This does leave one big honkin' question I don't know the answer to though :

If you have sufficient corpses then research becomes instant. IE : If you have 10 advent trooper corpses (On easy; Vet and Commander require 15, Legendary requires 25) you can research advent troopers instantly. If you do this, does it consume all 10 corpses or does it consume only one.

I'd assume only one but better to ask and be sure.

khy fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Feb 17, 2016

RBA Starblade
Apr 28, 2008

Going Home.

Games Idiot Court Jester

Plasma weapons look stupid as poo poo, but drat the plasma pistol feels insanely powerful.

Gortarius
Jun 6, 2013

idiot
Ok, please someone tell me if I'm alone with this but is this game super sloppy and runs like poo poo?

There is a very noticeable FPS drop while you are looking at the base, the game has a very hard time trying to figure out what an alien is going to do on his turn, occasionally there are just these 5 second pauses when nothing happens and I can't interact with anything. To top it all off, there is input delay.

Is there a way to mod this out AKA some guy on the internet is a better coder that the dev team and has already fixed this poo poo, or do I have some specific options that fudge this all up? The way it is now just makes me not want to play it.

RiotGearEpsilon
Jun 26, 2005
SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Gortarius posted:

Ok, please someone tell me if I'm alone with this but is this game super sloppy and runs like poo poo?

You are the opposite of alone on this. People are universally bitching about the games' inexplicable poo poo performance and weird glitches. From a QA perspective this game is a piece of poo poo and it brings deep shame to Firaxis and 2K. I'm extremely reluctant to actually recommend the game to people because of how often it fucks up and in such weird ways. One of my friends literally cannot play the game yet.

If the game wasn't otherwise very good it would have been consigned to the bargain bin of contemptuous failure by now. But fortunately for it, it is, so it may yet escape activating every pod of glitches on the map at the same time.

Gortarius posted:

Is there a way to mod this out AKA some guy on the internet is a better coder that the dev team and has already fixed this poo poo, or do I have some specific options that fudge this all up? The way it is now just makes me not want to play it.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=620600092 will kill some of the tedium, and the suggestions at https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/11/xcom-2-performance-fix/ will fix some (but by no means all) of your performance problems, maybe.

If this is unsatisfactory, 2K and Firaxis are busily working on un-loving their baby as fast as they can so you may want to just hold off for a bit and play something else until the patch is out, or even return the game now and re-buy it later once the patch is out. You should not feel obliged to keep a product that doesn't work.

Gridlocked
Aug 2, 2014

MR. STUPID MORON
WITH AN UGLY FACE
AND A BIG BUTT
AND HIS BUTT SMELLS
AND HE LIKES TO KISS
HIS OWN BUTT
by Roger Hargreaves

RBA Starblade posted:

Considering they're melting humans down into a gene slurry it's kind of more hosed up that they're just injecting that into sectoids and doing whatever instead of it just being John Traitor, imo.

It's more fun when there are traitors though. Every alien movie/game/whatever is better when the plucky resistance is fighting those evil traitors-of-their-own-kind and then one or two of them realize the error of their ways/break the mind control and defect back to the resistance to help save the world

It's also awesome for some of those city missions cause then you can pretend that your troops snuck in disguised as ADVENT troops.

The old pretend-we-are-Stormtroopers trick.

Also: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=624529054&searchtext=

Start with infinite Flashbangs and Smoke. Broken or decent idea?

Gridlocked fucked around with this message at 02:54 on Feb 17, 2016

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."
Tighan's a former collaborator, and he can't be the only one.

LuiCypher
Apr 24, 2010

Today I'm... amped up!

Steve2911 posted:

Does anyone know if the Avatar Project is inspired by this crazy poo poo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2045_Initiative

I'd like to believe that it's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xg29TuWo0Yo

Gortarius
Jun 6, 2013

idiot

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

You are the opposite of alone on this. People are universally bitching about the games' inexplicable poo poo performance and weird glitches. From a QA perspective this game is a piece of poo poo and it brings deep shame to Firaxis and 2K. I'm extremely reluctant to actually recommend the game to people because of how often it fucks up and in such weird ways. One of my friends literally cannot play the game yet.

If the game wasn't otherwise very good it would have been consigned to the bargain bin of contemptuous failure by now. But fortunately for it, it is, so it may yet escape activating every pod of glitches on the map at the same time.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=620600092 will kill some of the tedium, and the suggestions at https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/02/11/xcom-2-performance-fix/ will fix some (but by no means all) of your performance problems, maybe.

If this is unsatisfactory, 2K and Firaxis are busily working on un-loving their baby as fast as they can so you may want to just hold off for a bit and play something else until the patch is out, or even return the game now and re-buy it later once the patch is out. You should not feel obliged to keep a product that doesn't work.

Thanks, I'll check this poo poo out.

What I can't comprehend though is that... This is just as lovely as the previous game was at launch, but it doesn't look any better and it isn't a radical departure from it mechanically, so how'd they manage to gently caress it up this bad? Iiirc they eventually did fix up the first game so it was pretty stable and ran OK, so after unfucking the first game they went on to re-gently caress the codez they recycled for the second game, and now they are back to unfucking it all?

Beef Hardcheese
Jan 21, 2003

HOW ABOUT I LASH YOUR SHIT


Are certain grenadier abilities supposed to set nearby squares on fire, or is this some weird bug?

Internet Kraken
Apr 24, 2010

slightly amused

Gridlocked posted:

I just discovered a mod that lets you have Advent helmets :allears:

Now I can pretend I have defectors from the Advent in my team despite the slightly lame plot being that they are clonethings not actual collaborators

I don't think they are all vat grown. I imagine the first ADVENT soldiers had to be recruited from the local populace and they only got around to mass producing them once they had established total power over earth and could run such a facility in secret.

Some of the default helmets look kind of like modified versions of the ones ADVENT use. I like to think that's from soldiers stealing helmets off dead ones but also from early ADVENT defectors.

Henry Scorpio
Mar 20, 2006

Maybe it just collapsed on its own?

Gortarius posted:

... but it doesn't look any better ...

This is a crazy thing to say.

Away all Goats
Jul 5, 2005

Goose's rebellion

RBA Starblade posted:

Plasma weapons look stupid as poo poo, but drat the plasma pistol feels insanely powerful.

Have you tried the plasma mini gun yet? It's the only one I like the look of AND it sounds and feels amazing.

The first time I flanked a muton with it and had it spin up and just ragdoll the poo poo out of the muton against the wall I fell in love.

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Synthbuttrange
May 6, 2007

Yeah but you cant really go wrong with a gatling gun.

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