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Entropic posted:It would be pretty funny for the draft format to be totally solved and people already bored of drafting it via online simulators before the set actually came out. Draft sims don't have the print runs in packs so this isn't really a thing aside from just getting familiar with the cards.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:42
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Zoness posted:Draft sims don't have the print runs in packs so this isn't really a thing aside from just getting familiar with the cards. That doesn't stop people from running them and thinking they've figured out the format even though print runs can result in you only ever getting one out of two cards that would otherwise play well together since they're always in the same pack
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Feb 17, 2016 16:47
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Entropic posted:I understand why they went to a more consistent style guide based art style, the art in the old sets was all over the place. That meant you got some really cool unique stuff at the cost of some crap. Now the overall standard of the art is a lot higher but it all gets a bit samey And Mark Tedin made art for Lorwyn, Alara, Zendikar, and Scars of Mirrodin blocks, so clearly that's not the problem here.
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Feb 17, 2016 16:51
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Four Score posted:No it's not Art is subjective but thanks for your worthless input.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:16
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Zoness posted:Draft sims don't have the print runs in packs so this isn't really a thing aside from just getting familiar with the cards. I could be wrong but I can't imagine how that has more than a trivial impact on gaining a deep knowledge of a draft format and how it actually plays out.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:18
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I could be wrong but I can't imagine how that has more than a trivial impact on gaining a deep knowledge of a draft format and how it actually plays out. rabidsquid posted:That doesn't stop people from running them and thinking they've figured out the format even though print runs can result in you only ever getting one out of two cards that would otherwise play well together since they're always in the same pack
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Feb 17, 2016 17:21
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Are there draft sims that actually let you draft with other people? The ones I've seen just use AI to pick cards, which always lends to me getting ridiculous picks.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:23
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Yeah there's drafts.in, etc. I'm interested why someone who opens up a lot of mtgo packs doesn't just record what's in them, that way I think it would be possible to get a good approximation of the collation of the packs (i.e. the print runs).
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Feb 17, 2016 17:25
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...and? Are you assuming that people will always take the other card? That's p dumb.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:26
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Chill la Chill posted:...and? Are you assuming that people will always take the other card? That's p dumb. Yeeees? If two power commons from the same color are in a pack together, especially if one of them is splashable, you're not going to wheel either one. This happened in M11 with Pacify and another pretty good flyer I don't remember, off the top of my head. It actually happens quite often. Bonus posted:Yeah there's drafts.in, etc. I'm interested why someone who opens up a lot of mtgo packs doesn't just record what's in them, that way I think it would be possible to get a good approximation of the collation of the packs (i.e. the print runs). MODO doesn't use the same print run values.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:29
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MiddleEastBeast posted:I could be wrong but I can't imagine how that has more than a trivial impact on gaining a deep knowledge of a draft format and how it actually plays out. It's probably less important now but back before they took good removal out of common it meant you could tell what removal you could expect to get passed to you based on what was taken out of a pack with a pretty easy to remember common run. It means you get a lot more good picks because you can tell what's open and what's not a lot earlier than you could otherwise. Zoness fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 17:29
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rabidsquid posted:Yeeees? If two power commons from the same color are in a pack together, especially if one of them is splashable, you're not going to wheel either one. This happened in M11 with Pacify and another pretty good flyer I don't remember, off the top of my head. It actually happens quite often.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:31
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Most of us just remember things without having to actually care. Perhaps you should talk to a neurologist.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:32
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Hmmmm... *looks up excel sheet of cards removed from pack* Ah yes, I will refrain from going into blue.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:32
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I wish you would refrain from posting
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Feb 17, 2016 17:33
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The weirdest print run was Kodama's Reach and Search for Tomorrow right next to each other in modern masters 1
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Feb 17, 2016 17:33
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Kiora is the most red character ever. I have no idea why she is UG. She just gets super mad and does impulsive poo poo that ruins everyone's plans constantly. Also, the Uncharted Realms for today is one of the worst written ones they've ever done. Worse than Krienes going on and on about Nissa looking for Ashaya. Summary: Chandra burns them all the end.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:34
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Angry Grimace posted:Kiora is the most red character ever. I have no idea why she is UG. She just gets super mad and does impulsive poo poo that ruins everyone's plans constantly. it's almost like trying to write characters according to a rigid alignment system is dumb i mean its even dumber that dude cant even write to that system so im not defending him to be clear
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Feb 17, 2016 17:41
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It's also possible that relatively universal poo poo like "gets mad" or "has friends" shouldn't be a color thing at all Insert joke about how magic nerds are the counterargument to the universality of having friends
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Feb 17, 2016 17:44
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Chill la Chill posted:Hmmmm... *looks up excel sheet of cards removed from pack* Ah yes, I will refrain from going into blue. you're an idiot
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Feb 17, 2016 17:44
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Print runs are not that important, they're one of the two most overrated things in draft, the other being downstream (sent) signals. They're something you'll start to notice but they aren't reliable to really take decisions from. Sarmhan fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 17:45
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JerryLee posted:It's also possible that relatively universal poo poo like "gets mad" or "has friends" shouldn't be a color thing at all I'd say blue is the color that doesn't have friends, but then unified will was printed sooo..
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Feb 17, 2016 17:46
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sarmhan posted:Print runs are not that important, they're one of the two most overrated things in draft, the other being downstream (sent) signals. Nah dude, gotta know those sick draft skills and memorize it so you can win the sweet FNM promo.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:46
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rabidsquid posted:Yeeees? If two power commons from the same color are in a pack together, especially if one of them is splashable, you're not going to wheel either one. This happened in M11 with Pacify and another pretty good flyer I don't remember, off the top of my head. It actually happens quite often. Yeah I had read your original post, I just (without any hard evidence mind you, so I'm happy to be shown to be wrong) couldn't bring myself to believe that certain groups of commons only ever appeared in packs with certain other commons and nowhere else. I find it hard to believe that Pacifism and some white flier were only ever in packs together -- as opposed to, say, often being in packs together, but also appearing in packs separately. Then again I know fuckall about how print runs work and assumed they're somewhat more complex than one long strip of commons appearing once each and always in the same order, getting cut into 10-card groups. Not trying to argue with you, just talking out of my rear end mostly lol edit: and with all that, I would think that familiarity with the cards and draftable archetypes would still factor much more significantly than synergies between a handful of common-pairs that play well together.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:47
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JerryLee posted:It's also possible that relatively universal poo poo like "gets mad" or "has friends" shouldn't be a color thing at all Which color affinity is getting stoned and listening to the xx MiddleEastBeast posted:Yeah I had read your original post, I just (without any hard evidence mind you, so I'm happy to be shown to be wrong) couldn't bring myself to believe that certain groups of commons only ever appeared in packs with certain other commons and nowhere else. I find it hard to believe that Pacifism and some white flier were only ever in packs together -- as opposed to, say, often being in packs together, but also appearing in packs separately. I think they supposedly changed it at one point but it was actually as stupid as cards always appearing in the same order on the sheet. That's also how people originally started box mapping I think
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Feb 17, 2016 17:48
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JerryLee posted:It's also possible that relatively universal poo poo like "gets mad" or "has friends" shouldn't be a color thing at all All we've ever seen of her character is that she is super impulsive and just does whatever she feels like all of the time. I dunno seems pretty red.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:49
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Also, it is around the time I really started playing Magic so take this with the necessary grain of salt, but for my money Tempest/Urza/Masques were the sweet spot where you didn't really have any art that was obviously technically incompetent, but it didn't all look samey either. DiTerlizzi is pretty much the acme of this for me; dude is obviously a great illustrator but his poo poo would never fly in post-Lorwyn magic because it looks like a whimsical storybook instead of the young adult justice league team turning the epicosity dial up to 11 (this is unfair if you read it as an indictment of every single modern artwork, granted, but I don't think you can deny that it's the force tugging Magic art in a particular direction).
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Feb 17, 2016 17:49
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I thought the whole point of the new frames and making cards machine readable was to increase randomization, to prevent box mapping, print run memorization etc
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Feb 17, 2016 17:50
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sarmhan posted:Print runs are not that important, they're one of the two most overrated things in draft, the other being downstream (sent) signals. Correct. The most valuable skill in draft is opening non-red planeswalkers.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:51
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rabidsquid posted:Which color affinity is getting stoned and listening to the xx Getting stoned is in all colors; green magic is best at growing the weed itself but any color can use its own skills to score some of the dank e: if you need to use sunlamps to run an indoor grow operation then you're getting into white
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Feb 17, 2016 17:51
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Yeah I had read your original post, I just (without any hard evidence mind you, so I'm happy to be shown to be wrong) couldn't bring myself to believe that certain groups of commons only ever appeared in packs with certain other commons and nowhere else. I find it hard to believe that Pacifism and some white flier were only ever in packs together -- as opposed to, say, often being in packs together, but also appearing in packs separately. Look up mtg box mapping on google. Cards use to come off printing in a very specific way and it wasn't as random as you might think. Its much better now but still not 100% random.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:51
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Older print runs were that simple yes. Modern common print runs are more complicated and aren't very deterministic. There's a reason you don't see the top limited players focus on them.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:52
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Sickening posted:Look up mtg box mapping on google. Cards use to come off printing in a very specific way and it wasn't as random as you might think. Its much better now but still not 100% random. Yeah I'm aware of box-mapping, but thought that only has to do with rares, not with the order of commons. Is it really the case that Red Common X always appears adjacent to Green Common Y anytime either appears in a booster pack of lovely WoTC Set Z? Because that seems retarded and I don't recall that being the case in any set I've drafted in the last several years.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:53
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Everblight posted:Correct. The most valuable skill in draft is opening non-red planeswalkers. Uh, the sarkhan that turned into a dragon and had haste was actually pretty good....for sealed.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:54
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I didn't know anybody cared about remembering anything ever
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Feb 17, 2016 17:54
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Chill la Chill posted:Uh, the sarkhan that turned into a dragon and had haste was actually pretty good....for sealed. Hey I think I played it in a super early version of Jeskai black. !.. that one time... maybe
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Feb 17, 2016 18:02
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Chill la Chill posted:Nah dude, gotta know those sick draft skills and memorize it so you can win the sweet FNM promo. Is that how people get those? I just buy them. It's easier.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:05
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Realistically my point is more that draft simulators barely contribute more than a full spoiler does for "solving" a format although they can give you a reasonable impression on what boards can look like. Most draft formats, good or bad, tend to develop as the drafting trends change anyways so it's kind of moot. I don't think the news on going mono-blue in m14 was out from anyone's initial draft simulations, for starters. MODO drafts are especially sensitive to articles written about particular archetypes such as when Zvi wrote an article on drafting UW levelers in RoE making that archetype autolose for the next 2-3 weeks.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:06
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Yeah, there was that BW warriors deck that got a lot of attention in Khans and then disappeared for a while because of it.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:08
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I rare draft like a fiend. poo poo one time I cracked a foil full art island and just drafted that poo poo. Gimme my 12 bucks fuckers.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:08
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