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Doom is cool and I can't wait to try this game out, I hope it's as entertaining as this thread. 
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Feb 17, 2016 18:11
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All I want is good first levels. None of the DOOM 3 bullshit of "Hey youre on mars lets find out what astronaut mcplumber is doing in the vents", just gimme good level architecture, impressive arcologies, kickass military bases, portal testing labs, get me straight to that meat. I want to be in hell by E2, no by the end of the game.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:14
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Bisse posted:"It was Carmack holding the studio together with his techno wizardry, and then a bunch of rotating new hires who worked on things like Doom 3, Wolfenstein (Blue Version), Rage, etc. By keeping the studio alive through selling engine licenses. E: ID hasn't had a GREAT game since Q3, and they have stayed afloat with technology.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:18
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Bisse posted:"It was Carmack holding the studio together with his techno wizardry, and then a bunch of rotating new hires who worked on things like Doom 3, Wolfenstein (Blue Version), Rage, etc. I don't understand what your problem with those statements is. Guys like John Romero had tons of ideas, those guys left, then Id pushed out a bunch of repetitive but technically impressive FPS games. I guess the word 'rotating' is what's bothering you so much? But its very safe to say that not everybody who worked on doom 3 still works at id there today, that's true of any game studio. There are no doubt people who worked on Rage or Wolfenstein that aren't still at Id either. Then you've got the fact that not a single person at Id has become remotely notorious the way Carmack or Romero did. Can you name a single person working at Id now? Nope. That's all I'm saying. Its not exactly insider information! Rage is a game at-odds with itself which looked good, but even the megatexture implementation was a mess on consoles, and the game itself was very meh. "Rage was fun for the 5 minutes you spent shooting people" or "rage was the lovely borderlands" are comments I hear a lot. Saying that rage didn't have great design is not some revelation which requires insider knowledge either. The games did sell okay though, and mostly because they're graphically impressive. Also Carmack managed to keep Id afloat selling engines for a long time, but Epic really stole that market out from under them, and then Crytek finished them off. The only people using Id Tech now are Bethesda companies. LotsBread posted:All I want is good first levels. None of the DOOM 3 bullshit of "Hey youre on mars lets find out what astronaut mcplumber is doing in the vents", just gimme good level architecture, impressive arcologies, kickass military bases, portal testing labs, get me straight to that meat. I want to be in hell by E2, no by the end of the game. Agreed completely. If anything I want the game to just start off in Hell right away. I don't need a reason! The developers did mention they didn't put much weight into the game's story because 'that's not important to doom' so hopefully they get it 
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Feb 17, 2016 18:26
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I actually enjoyed Doom 3 for what it was, and played through it several times. Back when it came out, it was pretty much that and Half Life 2 all day, every day for me. Half Life was superior in literally every way, but I do remember getting a kick out of the voice acting in those datapads you'd pick up on Mars. The ones from the scientists who got sucked into Hell were pretty creepy IMO
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Feb 17, 2016 18:29
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Kazvall posted:By keeping the studio alive through selling engine licenses. Return to Castle Wolfenstein was after Quake 3.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:29
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Always wanted to get into Resurrection of Evil, but the game doesn't seem to support 1920x1080 so the screen looks all weird.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:29
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MrJacobs posted:Return to Castle Wolfenstein was after Quake 3. Ok ok they haven't had a GREAT game since RtCW, but they were also only executive producers, buddy!
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Feb 17, 2016 18:34
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AwkwardKnob posted:I actually enjoyed Doom 3 for what it was, and played through it several times. Back when it came out, it was pretty much that and Half Life 2 all day, every day for me. Half Life was superior in literally every way, but I do remember getting a kick out of the voice acting in those datapads you'd pick up on Mars. The ones from the scientists who got sucked into Hell were pretty creepy IMO I have a higher opinion of Doom 3 now than when it came out. I guess I didn't appreciate how bad shooters can get, and id trying out a creepy horror game with a franchise that hadn't seen a real release in ten years wasn't the worst thing in the world. I'm also sort of glad the Doom 3 engine didn't catch on. Any game that used it ended up looking like this rigid claymation mess.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:33
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I genuinely enjoy touches of story but they have to be in service of me exploring horrifying hellscapes, not excuses to navel-gaze for hours and avoid getting to the hellscapes
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Feb 17, 2016 22:55
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MrJacobs posted:Return to Castle Wolfenstein was after Quake 3. Kazvall posted:Ok ok they haven't had a GREAT game since RtCW, but they were also only executive producers, buddy! Yeah the single player for Return was Nerve Software and the multi was Splash Damage. Id just oversaw the project and technology, it was their brand after all.
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Feb 17, 2016 22:57
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Zaphod42 posted:Rage is a game at-odds with itself which looked good, but even the megatexture implementation was a mess on consoles, and the game itself was very meh. "Rage was fun for the 5 minutes you spent shooting people" or "rage was the lovely borderlands" are comments I hear a lot. Saying that rage didn't have great design is not some revelation which requires insider knowledge either. Rage was really disappointing because it had some of the best feeling gunplay in any FPS game, but it was weighed down by a lack of design focus. If the hub world and vehicle sections had been cut out entirely in favor of a series of levels without interference it would have been a much better game.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:05
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Rage was really disappointing because it had some of the best feeling gunplay in any FPS game, but it was weighed down by a lack of design focus. If the hub world and vehicle sections had been cut out entirely in favor of a series of levels without interference it would have been a much better game. Not to mention they could have tacked a few hours onto the campaign. That is one of the most abrupt endings I've seen.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:10
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There was an almost audible clunk for the point their budget started running out. They somehow made desert wasteland interesting then suddenly plonked you into repeating corridors of generic black and red plasti-steel.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:11
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NoEyedSquareGuy posted:Rage was really disappointing because it had some of the best feeling gunplay in any FPS game, but it was weighed down by a lack of design focus. If the hub world and vehicle sections had been cut out entirely in favor of a series of levels without interference it would have been a much better game. Yeah I was kinda curious before it came out what it'd be like if Id tackled something other than an FPS, and I think that's probably what they were thinking too, do something different for a change and make a driving / racing game, but at the same time still make it a shooter because they're Id and that's their bread and butter. End result though was they would have been better off cutting the driving completely and just focusing entirely on making a good shooter. Also seemed like a very 'kitchen sink' style of design, lots of things like the items you'd pick up and different ammo types seemed to not really gel together. Lots of different guns but none of them felt really stellar to shoot. The pistol and the AK felt kinda awkwardly blocky too.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:14
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Imo this game is going to suck dick. Just make another game about a space marine merking demons, instead of copping DOOM and trying to cater to loving old dumb nerds who are going to hate it anyway because of their depression or whatev.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:19
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Blacktoll posted:Imo this game is going to suck dick. Just make another game about a space marine merking demons, instead of copping DOOM and trying to cater to loving old dumb nerds who are going to hate it anyway because of their depression or whatev. I never realized that about myself.
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Feb 18, 2016 04:40
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Blacktoll posted:loving old dumb nerds who are going to hate it anyway because of their depression
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Feb 18, 2016 05:08
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Awesome Welles posted:Doom is cool and I can't wait to try this game out, I hope it's as entertaining as this thread. if your measure for entertainment is a gay thread on the internet youre gonna love reatrd 4
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Feb 18, 2016 06:17
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Zaphod42 posted:And now that bump mapping has been replaced by normal mapping, everybody won't look like they're made of plastic ala Doom 3. Doom 3 had a material function for converting bumpmaps to normals that was used in some cases, but for the most part it just used normal maps. Everything looked like plastic in Doom 3 because (for performance reasons) they only had one size of specular blob, and the size they chose was a nice middle of the road one, like plastic. Doom 4 has a nice PBR shader with a roughness term, so surfaces can have different "shinyness" on a per pixel basis.
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Feb 18, 2016 11:59
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No, it'll look normal now.
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Feb 18, 2016 12:29
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Blacktoll posted:Imo this game is going to suck dick. Just make another game about a space marine merking demons, instead of copping DOOM and trying to cater to loving old dumb nerds who are going to hate it anyway because of their depression or whatev. I feel like this about all game sequels. You're never going to please the meganerds (there are still people who think saints row 1 was better than the sequels after all, lol) so stop caring about them and make a cool game. Also my dad works at ID and he thinks you're all wrong about everything
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Feb 18, 2016 14:21
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dogstile posted:Also my dad works at ID and he thinks you're all wrong about everything My dad is John Carmack, he said the real reason Romero left was because my dad sexually harassed him. The games were never the same because "Without Romero, whats the point in living? Now let me go finish the oculus where I'm creating the virtual life Romero and I could have had." He then cried.
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Feb 18, 2016 14:39
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czg posted:Bump mapping and normal mapping is the same thing. The light function takes the surface normal as an input, and a bumpmap is just a roundabout and inefficient way of describing the normal. They're not the same thing. Normal mapping is an advancement on the same idea / technique as bump mapping, but it is inherently more complex and thus looks better. Bump mapping uses a greyscale texture for normal offsets in one direction. This is why it looks plasticy and bumpy. Normal mapping uses a 3-tone color texture for depth in three dimensions. This is why it can show much more detail and not everything looks "melted".  This is a bump map. Black and white. Thus limited.  This is a normal map. See the colors? Saying "a bumpmap is just a roundabout and inefficient way of describing the normal" is misleading. They're different however you wanna slice it dude. Its the same concept but normal maps are the next level of it. E: It does look like doom 3 used a mixture of normal mapping and simple height map bump mapping though, so you're right that the specular was also part of the plastic appearance. But that's just the shininess problem, the "melted" look is from bump mapping. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 16:50
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They achieve exactly the same thing in different way: They change the surface normal that the light reflects off of. A normal map does not have "depth in three dimensions" whatever you mean by that. Bump map: A greyscale texture describes how far out a part of a surface sticks. You look at a pixel and the surrounding pixels to determine what the normal is at that point. Normal map: A RGB texture describes the surface normal directly. R = X component, G = Y, B = Z. The resulting normal gets fed into the light function in the shader no matter what.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:20
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But that's the thing, each normal in the height map has to be calculated based on the neighboring values, which is why everything looks kinda melty, they blend together. With the three color channels in the normal map you can be more exact about the normal's co-ordinates and can have more dramatic shapes.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:25
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You also have to remember that Doom 3 had pretty low texture resolutions, which did not help the "meltyness" you're describing.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:31
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That's a fair enough point. Still more of a texture resolution issue than anything with the specific technique.
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Feb 18, 2016 17:34
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Wait, is Zaphod42 aggressively misinformed about something?
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Feb 18, 2016 18:43
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czg posted:That's a fair enough point. Linguica posted:Wait, is Zaphod42 aggressively misinformed about something? Yep that's just what he said.  Linguica thanks for playing, try again next time.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:10
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I don't think D3 used gray scale heightmaps, at least not on important objects. I remember looking through the game's resources, they were just zip files as with Q3, and slowly figuring out how it all worked. That was before I had a stable Internet connection too. Looked like wizardry at the time.
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Feb 18, 2016 19:40
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Zaphod42 posted:Linguica thanks for playing, try again next time.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:12
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I'm eating this thread up. 
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Feb 18, 2016 20:18
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Lmfao at Zaphod42 pulling out charts and poo poo
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Feb 18, 2016 20:23
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actually, doom 3 was made entirely out of voxels
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Feb 18, 2016 20:27
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In one corner we have ZaphodZaphod42 posted:bump mapping [makes things] look like they're made of plastic quote:One of the other things people have commented on is that the skin tone on the characters doesn't look particularly realistic as a skin tone. Part of that can be attributed to the fact that we only have a single level of specularity. There's only one kind of power factor that goes onto everything. We can make brighter or dimmer specular highlights but we can't make tighter and broader specular highlights. [...] What I've done in the newer renderering paths is made it a two-dimensional texture, so all of the specular lookups happen with an additional rendering map that has the specularity factor in there. [...] That lets you do a lot of interesting things with... the highlight that we've got in Doom is really quite broad for a specular highlight, and it's about what you'd get on a really dull plastic; something that wasn't very shiny, it's a kind of fairly broad, spread out thing. You don't get anything that looks like a really good metallic highlight, or things that would be shiny cast plastic, so there's a lot of neat stuff that you get just playing with that, and going ahead and having some that are even broader and some that tighten down a whole lot to give you bright little pin-point highlights on there. Linguica fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 20:28
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loga mira posted:I don't think D3 used gray scale heightmaps, at least not on important objects. I remember looking through the game's resources, they were just zip files as with Q3, and slowly figuring out how it all worked. That was before I had a stable Internet connection too. Looked like wizardry at the time. Yeah D3 uses up to four layers of textures. Diffuse, Normals, Specular(?) and a seperate diffuse map which renders fullbright in any condition, allowing for the textures that light up in the darkness.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:32
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echronorian posted:if your measure for entertainment is a gay thread on the internet youre gonna love reatrd 4 
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Feb 18, 2016 20:39
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All 3D mapping features in the Doom 3 engine, like rooms over rooms, were achieved using many rows of small, grey floating platforms known as GADS or "Gravitational Anomaly Disks" that were covered up with clever texture work.
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Feb 18, 2016 20:44
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Fact: All hit detection in DooM3 was done using rng's seeded by the players mouse movements and time of day. Carmak knew it was a bad idea but instead opted with that solution over bump mapped velocity detectors, which was the style at the time. e: This thread is 'DooM4: DooM3 FACTS only' from now on. Professor of Cats fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 20:46
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