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As someone who is still new to the game, can anyone explain how the Wampa and Palpatine combo works? I'm not quite sure I understand the use of Wampa's ability.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:06
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MeinPanzer posted:As someone who is still new to the game, can anyone explain how the Wampa and Palpatine combo works? I'm not quite sure I understand the use of Wampa's ability. Wampa lets you ignore all of the attack dice he rolls. If you do, and one of the results that got ignored was a crit, you can just straight-up assign a damage to the target, ignoring shields. Palpatine lets you change a die result to anything you wanted. So every time Wampa attacks, you use Palpatine to change a result to a crit, and then you use Wampa's ability to convert that into guaranteed shield-ignoring damage. It's the most consistent damage you can get, and it's great against anything that's relying on its shields to protect it.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:14
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MeinPanzer posted:As someone who is still new to the game, can anyone explain how the Wampa and Palpatine combo works? I'm not quite sure I understand the use of Wampa's ability. Wampa deals a damage card through shields, basically, if you can get a crit on your dice. Use palpatine to turn one of your dice into a crit. Green dice become irrelevant because Wampa's ability is "cancel all results and give the ship a damage card." Then comes Colzet who can flip damage cards face up, so you have a situation where you can give people critical damage through shields. Some people were flipping out about Wampa locally, so I think it's safe to say Wampa has "caught on" and I bet I will see some Wampa lists this weekend at store champs.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:17
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Finster Dexter posted:Wampa deals a damage card through shields, basically, if you can get a crit on your dice. Use palpatine to turn one of your dice into a crit. Green dice become irrelevant because Wampa's ability is "cancel all results and give the ship a damage card." I'm still not convinced that building exclusively for Wampa is the right move. OGP + Palp and Wampa is 43 points! If you can make use of the remaining 57 points for ships that also benefit from Palpatine, you're in much better shape. Vader's a good choice with his action economy. There's also something to be said for naked Wampa, no Palpatine. He won't trigger consistently, but he's got a roughly 1 in 4 chance of triggering his ability on any given attack. If you've got 14 points left, there's really no better option.
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Feb 17, 2016 17:57
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In my albeit limited experience playing against Wampatine, the combo went off all of once before I annihilated the shuttle, and Wampa failed to roll any crits the rest of the match. Part of that was opposing pilot error though, as he had Wampa pointed the wrong way and set up ont he wrong side of his formation and it all went a bit screwy. But basically he got a single shot off against Whisper before I blew straight past his miniswarm and focussed down the Lambda.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:12
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Wampa is a great tie to slot into a swarm alongside scourge. He's better than a black crack for a point less.
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Feb 17, 2016 18:45
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hoiyes posted:Wampa is a great tie to slot into a swarm alongside scourge. He's better than a black crack for a point less. If you give Howlrunner Swarm Tactics, you can even make Wampa + Scourge shoot in the reverse order like you'd want.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:17
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gently caress, quote != edit. Whatever.Deviant posted:If you give Howlrunner Swarm Tactics, you can even make Wampa + Scourge shoot in the reverse order like you'd want. Edit: Wampa + Stealth Device Omega Leader + Comm Relay + Juke + Stealth Device Scourge + Predator + Stealth Device OGP + Palpatine (98 pts)
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Feb 17, 2016 19:22
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Deviant posted:If you give Howlrunner Swarm Tactics, you can even make Wampa + Scourge shoot in the reverse order like you'd want. Yeah, howl + swarm tactics & stealth device with scourge crack, Wampa and three black cracks is an even 100. Seems legit.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:25
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 Poe Dameron body pillows are being offered again
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Feb 17, 2016 19:26
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hoiyes posted:Yeah, howl + swarm tactics & stealth device with scourge crack, Wampa and three black cracks is an even 100. Seems legit. I dunno, I think using swarm just to reorder scourge and wampa is a bit too janky in practice, but you CAN do it. Although putting Wampa at PS8 for shooting is good in its own right.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:30
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The Lord of Hats posted:Wampa lets you ignore all of the attack dice he rolls. If you do, and one of the results that got ignored was a crit, you can just straight-up assign a damage to the target, ignoring shields. Thanks, that clears it up. So, this seems to be implied, but just to be clear: a ship can be destroyed if it loses all its hull points but still has full shields?
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Feb 17, 2016 19:36
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My only experience with Wampa was in a store championship against an opponent that had him along with Soontir and a Decimator with Vader and the Emperor. The list had been cleaning up for the guy, and it sort of scared me, so I ended up working it so blocked up the Decimator, which blocked up Wampa and I was able to kill him in the first round of shooting before he ever got to use his ability. Things sort of fell into place. If not, there was a very real possibility I would have lost hard.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:43
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MeinPanzer posted:Thanks, that clears it up. So, this seems to be implied, but just to be clear: a ship can be destroyed if it loses all its hull points but still has full shields? Yep.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:45
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Deviant posted:I dunno, I think using swarm just to reorder scourge and wampa is a bit too janky in practice, but you CAN do it. Although putting Wampa at PS8 for shooting is good in its own right. Yeah, it wouldn't be just to reorder those two, I usually run swarm tactics on howl if there's points to spare because it's always nice for a one hull tie to get off its R1 shot before it's vaporised, which comes up often enough in swarm games.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:50
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MeinPanzer posted:Thanks, that clears it up. So, this seems to be implied, but just to be clear: a ship can be destroyed if it loses all its hull points but still has full shields? Yep. A ship is destroyed if it has been dealt damage cards => its hull value; shields are irrelevant when determining whether or not a ship has been destroyed (although it's a corner case, since most often you will be having to chew through shields, first). Wampatine seems like it would most effective against Poe and "Red Ace" where applicable, "Red Ace" in particular; the T-70 is a jousting ship at its heart, and Poe its most efficient pilot. Being able to just chew up the hull of a T-70, R2-D2/R5-P9 be damned, is scary and dangerous. The problem is that Wampa is totally destroyable in one shot by most in-meta guns, and shoots naturally at PS4. There are plenty of incredibly likely scenarios where he gets PS killed before he gets to do anything at all, which is why I'd be wary about building around him exclusively. Lately the trouble I've been having with listbuilding for Store Champs and the like is that you might be best served just treating Empire and Rebel lists as being 74 points of whatever you want, plus Omega Leader/stresshog depending on your faction. It's been stunting my creativity, what little of it that exists, in a major way. Like, someone made a remark that "if you have 14 points left over, Wampa is the best use of them," and my knee-jerk reactionary comment was "make sure you don't have just 14 points left over; get to 26." I don't disagree that Wampa is a clever/good use of 14 points in many lists, either. Atomic Empire's store league is super friendly, FYI; if you're in the RDU/Triangle area and Durham isn't a prohibitively long drive, come out and play some games. The league organizer is a good dude who runs things democratically, and the level of competition runs the gamut from purely casual to tournament-level. Shameless plug over. In the run-up to two consecutive Saturdays of Store Championships, I've been looking to talk shop with anyone and everyone who runs POW or has run against POW to pick their brains for comments, experiences, or advice. If you've got something to add w/r/t the list, I'd consider it a favor to let me know. My goal in the next two weekends is to top 8 twice, but I'd be lying if I didn't admit that I'm hoping to do better (top 4 at least once), and to that end I'm just going all-in with more practice until we get there.
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Feb 17, 2016 19:57
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My store is doing an unusual escalation league starting Sunday with the following rules- Week 1: 25 points, no named or large ships. Week 2: 50 points, same restrictions Week 3: 75 points, generics can "promote" to named units and large ships can be used. Week 4/5: 100/200 points with no restrictions. EPTs, ships, and promotions are locked in, but all other upgrades can be changed week to week. I'm really torn on how to build up my list. Part of me wants to go with four mini-ace F/Os for a safe first month, but I also want to fly POW since that's my go to right now. Any suggestions for someone that only plays empire?
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Feb 17, 2016 20:02
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I might be moving up to Raleigh/Durham/Chapel Hill soon-ish, its good to know there's plenty of people up there to sling some spacewangs with.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:05
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guts and bolts posted:Lately the trouble I've been having with listbuilding for Store Champs and the like is that you might be best served just treating Empire and Rebel lists as being 74 points of whatever you want, plus Omega Leader/stresshog depending on your faction. It's been stunting my creativity, what little of it that exists, in a major way. Like, someone made a remark that "if you have 14 points left over, Wampa is the best use of them," and my knee-jerk reactionary comment was "make sure you don't have just 14 points left over; get to 26." I don't disagree that Wampa is a clever/good use of 14 points in many lists, either. Yeah, O'Leader is pretty much auto-include in my Imperial lists right now. I've been running this: https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f...zzzPipe%20Dream Palpshuttle, Wampa, O'Leader, and Vader (VI, no engine). Every piece of it is equally tempting a target for the enemy, and losing any one piece isn't the end of the world. The list doesn't really have a hard counter, either. Thug Life is probably the closest thing to a hard counter there is, due to the lack of autothrusters. I really like it, but I'm not 100% sold on Vader in the last slot. I'm not sure what else I could put there for 31 points, though. Maybe the Inquisitor when it comes out, simply to shore up the lack of autothrusters in the list. I could drop Wampa, and go up to Whisper (the infamous POW list), but you know what? I realllllllly hate flying Whisper. I find her incredibly taxing to fly. It stresses me out in a bizarre fashion. I could drop Palp, but then Whisper is back to "if I had 14 points left". And then we're looking at an entirely different style of list also. What else could I put in for 31 points or less instead of Vader?
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Feb 17, 2016 20:43
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There aren't that many good Imperial ships near the 31 point mark. Generic TIE-D with /x7 maybe?
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Feb 17, 2016 20:55
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, O'Leader is pretty much auto-include in my Imperial lists right now. I've been running this: Soontir Fel — TIE Interceptor 27 Push the Limit 3 Autothrusters 2 Stealth Device 3 Royal Guard TIE 0 Ship Total: 35 "Whisper" — TIE Phantom 32 Veteran Instincts 1 Fire-Control System 2 Advanced Cloaking Device 4 Ship Total: 39 "Omega Leader" — TIE/fo Fighter 21 Juke 2 Comm Relay 3 Ship Total: 26 This is what I'm going to try. I'm a noob for x-wing but i figure 2 high damage high evade aces and a spoiler sounds good.
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Feb 17, 2016 20:58
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Ojetor posted:There aren't that many good Imperial ships near the 31 point mark. Generic TIE-D with /x7 maybe? The obvious choices are Delta x7 with stealth, but I'm always surprised at how decent imp aces are even in budget versions. I've been keeping track of the top lists from well... everything, here's the ship's listed by point cost/faction if it interests you. Haven't updated in a few weeks, but I want to see if I can just implement it straight into list juggler to save some effort. https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/198506-the-ships-that-make-the-cut/
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Feb 17, 2016 21:03
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Gonna run Soontir, OL, Vessery at Mead Hall store champs this weekend  Yes, I know I don't have access the title that makes Vessery actually good, but I like the Defender anyways, weird dial be damned.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:08
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ConfusedUs posted:Yeah, O'Leader is pretty much auto-include in my Imperial lists right now. Yep. I just don't really know of a better way to spend 26 points. He's either going to kill something much more expensive than he is, often for free, or at the very least tie up something much more expensive than he is; or he is going to require much more than 26 points worth of investment from your opponent to counter or kill, since it's usually two ships. One of the guys at the AE league - a solid player - has switched to running Expert Handling on his high-value aces. This is where we're at, now. Madness. quote:I realllllllly hate flying Whisper. I find her incredibly taxing to fly. It stresses me out in a bizarre fashion. I don't think it's bizarre; I think Whisper is the hardest ship to fly in the game, both mechanically and strategically. De-cloaking is an incredibly effective blocking tool, but you can easily gently caress it up. You can literally never afford to end any turn with nothing in arc, or you are potentially wrecked. She needs to shoot first, so she can't move last in ties, and so predicting opponent movement on a ship of her fragility is mission-critical. If you forget to Kallus, FCS/Sensor Jammer, get your free Focus, or re-cloak/de-cloak, you significantly hamstring yourself. In POW, you have to stay within Range 2 of Yorr to keep yourself safe from a stresshog, a Rebel Captive/Tactician crew, or just to redmove in general. Whisper has a lot to manage, and is probably the ship I see flown ineffectively the most often. It took me about a dozen games just to remember her PEMDAS (Kallus Decloak FCS Cloak Focus) without writing it on my hand in Sharpie. I will probably still write on my hand for Store Championships. quote:What else could I put in for 31 points or less instead of Vader? Brunas's list is pretty helpful in seeing what other people had success with and found viable at decent levels of play. A Delta Defender with /x7 and a Stealth Device is my vote, but that obviously hinges on unreleased content. jassi007 posted:This is what I'm going to try. I'm a noob for x-wing but i figure 2 high damage high evade aces and a spoiler sounds good. Whisper with no bid and no crew is going to present some problems. This list is obviously not a terrible idea, but if you want to build from a core of OLeader and Soontir Fel, you could run ~35 points of Darth Vader and you'll likely get more mileage out of them. The Lord of Hats posted:Gonna run Soontir, OL, Vessery at Mead Hall store champs this weekend Lemme know how it goes. I'm a big believer in the Defender's dial, and if you can have success with unbuffed Vessery, it boggles the mind what will be possible in a post-Veterans world.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:28
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Agent Kallus reads "at the start of the first round," so shouldn't that mean that you select the ship at the start of the game and only then?
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Feb 17, 2016 21:36
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Some Numbers posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but Agent Kallus reads "at the start of the first round," so shouldn't that mean that you select the ship at the start of the game and only then? Correct, but I saw someone forget to do just that in both elimination rounds of a store championship event. Also having a reminder that you can convert the focus is pretty important.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:43
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Some Numbers posted:Correct me if I'm wrong, but Agent Kallus reads "at the start of the first round," so shouldn't that mean that you select the ship at the start of the game and only then? Yes, and if you forget to do it you get nothing, and it's very easy to have "name Kallus's target" get lost in the shuffle of asteroid placement and ship placement and strategy whirring around in the ol' noggin. Or at least it is for me. Then you have to remember his effect and which ship he's locked on, which is also easily forgettable if you haven't run Kallus with any frequency; for example, you really want to Kallus a PWT and take Evade actions, but if you forget to change one of your eyeballs on offense/defense, Kallus is a wasted slot. On its own it probably wouldn't be that bad, but it's in tandem with the million other things Whisper has going on just by herself. It's easier to remember if you just write it on your hand and remember that most everything Whisper does, she gets after shooting.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:44
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I guess I was misinterpreting your mnemonic mantra to be the things you have to remember for every round.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:47
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Some Numbers posted:I guess I was misinterpreting your mnemonic mantra to be the things you have to remember for every round. Well you still have to remember you have it, and by default there's no marker like you'd have for focus or whatever. Kallus timing question: You use it before dials are set but after ships are setup on the first round, right?
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Feb 17, 2016 21:52
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Some Numbers posted:I guess I was misinterpreting your mnemonic mantra to be the things you have to remember for every round. You do still have to remember to change an eyeball for free to hit/evade, especially if you're shooting at your Kallus'd target that also has an FCS-granted Target Lock on it, because if you're sloppy it's easy to gently caress up your order of operations, doubly so against matchups that Whisper naturally does not like (Decimators, Han Solo). Like, a normal combat round, assuming you have arc: 1) Roll your red dice 2) Check results, consider modding dice 3) End. With Kallus and FCS and Whisper taking Evade actions to mitigate damage from a PWT: 1) Roll your red dice 2) Check results, consider modding dice with a TL (Here it's easy to gently caress up, because with no Focus it's easy to forget Kallus and just reroll all blanks and eyes when you should in fact leave one eye intact, or remember to immediately switch it to a hit before you spend your TL.) 3) Consider modding dice with Big Poppa Pump 4) Get your free Target Lock and Cloak Token 5) Maybe get a free Focus Token 6) End. It seems small, but if you routinely forget to do it, you can easily lose an otherwise close game. Hence, mnemonic mantra, and writing on your hand is something I stole shamelessly from watching footage of tournament play.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:53
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Are there tournament rules against having a little paper and pencil there to jot quick notes like who has been Kallus'd, etc.? e: or better yet, what about those small sticky notes, and you can put that right on the upgrade card so it's right there. It's a post-it shaped token ee: Because even writing it on my hand, guaranteed I would forget unless it's on my cards. Finster Dexter fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 17, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 21:55
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Finster Dexter posted:Are there tournament rules against having a little paper and pencil there to jot quick notes like who has been Kallus'd, etc.? Not that I'm aware of. Once you have experience with the list, you will generally know who to Kallus in a given opponent. Like, it's always the PWT where present; any high-annoyance ace will get it; generics generally won't get it, unless their whole list is generics; OL will never get it for obvious reasons. The important thing is to just remember to loving do it. My first few games, I didn't. It was a bad time. Jeb Bush 2012 posted:Kallus timing question: You use it before dials are set but after ships are setup on the first round, right? After ship placement and before dials are set is my general understanding, but given how fast those steps tend to blur together, as long as it's before anyone has activated a dial, I will just roll with them announcing Kallus on whomever. If ships have already moved in a "serious" game, you blew it, and Kallus gets to play sudoku in Whisper's backseat all game.
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Feb 17, 2016 21:59
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Admittedly I've only used Kallus all of once but I just put a token on my ship and the target. Sure it caused a few 'wait why do i have it?' but it was a helpful reminder. Alternatively someone just print out a big 'K' token or something I can throw on stuff. kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:04 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 17, 2016 23:52
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kingcom posted:Admittedly I've only used Kallus all of once but I just put a token on my ship and the target. Sure it caused a few 'wait why do i have it?' but it was helpful reminded. I really want to get an acrylic Palpatine token, and an acrylic Kallus token. Like, real bad.
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Feb 17, 2016 23:53
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guts and bolts posted:I really want to get an acrylic Palpatine token, and an acrylic Kallus token. Like, real bad. I will buy them if they are smug as gently caress faces. EDIT: Actually no, the Palp one has to have a neutral expression on one side (unused) and when you flip it to used its just got a smug face. kingcom fucked around with this message at 00:07 on Feb 18, 2016 |
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Feb 18, 2016 00:05
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kingcom posted:I will buy them if they are smug as gently caress faces. Needs a built in tiny motion sensor and speaker. "Good. Goooooooood."
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Feb 18, 2016 00:40
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Which squadron name do we go with when submitting our list to store championships: Captain Yorr's Ruse Cruise/Wild Ride Careless Whisper Omegle Leader
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Feb 18, 2016 01:11
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guts and bolts posted:Captain Yorr's Ruse Cruise
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Feb 18, 2016 01:20
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kingcom posted:I will buy them if they are smug as gently caress faces. I'd love an alt art card with a variant on this. 
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Feb 18, 2016 01:21
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Nailed it, that was my first take as well ro5s posted:I'd love an alt art card with a variant on this. Sheev Squadron© Miniatures Game
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Feb 18, 2016 01:22
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