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Seriously, if you want storm/lightning mage sort of thing with the avatar of storm capstone go Storm Sorcerer/Lightning Fury/Avatar of Storm. You're off-control, as you'll get a lot of slide effects that are thunder based, and when you hit your epic destiny, you will never have to worry about resistances ever again.
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Feb 18, 2016 22:29
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How do you pick up Avatar of Storm as a Sorcerer? Don't you need the Channel Divinity Class Feature? And can this method be adapted to martial classes?
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Feb 18, 2016 22:36
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berenzen posted:Seriously, if you want storm/lightning mage sort of thing with the avatar of storm capstone go Storm Sorcerer/Lightning Fury/Avatar of Storm. You're off-control, as you'll get a lot of slide effects that are thunder based, and when you hit your epic destiny, you will never have to worry about resistances ever again. ProfessorCirno posted:There is literally a sorcerer built specifically for lightning and thunder powers. What are you trying to do with the wizard thematically and mechanically? Actually, in another campaign, I'm running exactly that sorc build. In this case, my character is a port from 3.5/PF and she was a wizard that got ahold of a magic lightning tome, so tended to prepare more lightning based spells. Also that, in rewriting the fluff for the Lyrandar Wind-Rider, it's that the magic lightning tome is what's letting me go into the prestige path. So with that, I do want to attempt to pick up weather/lightning/thunder related powers in general. Since it's only a level 5 character at the moment, I have some other daily spells that aren't lightning/thunder based, and I'm not super worried about being suboptimal, due to the group not optimizing hard, but I can't really find fitting powers to go with the concept. And my multiclass is obviously already taken up by invoker, so I can qualify for Avatar of Storm, since Invoker had the level 2 utility that adds int to init daily. Since my DM has to create the magic tome as a custom item, should I point her towards making spells cast through it another element, or are there enough thunder/lightning spells that I can suffice without having to bug her more, since it's her first time hosting 4e.
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Feb 18, 2016 22:47
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Mecha Gojira posted:How do you pick up Avatar of Storm as a Sorcerer? Don't you need the Channel Divinity Class Feature? And can this method be adapted to martial classes? The prerequisite for avatar of the storm is the feat storm sacrifice - which it appears you can qualify for by getting Divine channeler. The downside is it becomes basically very to grab the improved critical feats due to the strength requirements.
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Feb 18, 2016 23:00
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Cthulhu Dreams posted:The prerequisite for avatar of the storm is the feat storm sacrifice - which it appears you can qualify for by getting Divine channeler. Avatar of storm gives +2 strength, +2 con, so as long as a player has 11 strength as a sorcerer, you get it without strength investment. And yeah, it requires divine channeler, which means low-int for the sorcerer. 11 strength, 13 con, 14 dex, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 16, grab religion through a background, take divine channeler to grab one of the chaladin CD, grab storm sacrifice. It's feat heavy, so try to convince your DM to just let you grab the feat. But AoS is the best storm sorcerer Epic Destiny in the game, It's a CHA hit, so you'll end up with 26 charisma in the end, but you'll be hitting for +70-80 modifiers on your damage for an encounter. It's amazingly fun, and you end up clearing out massive swaths of the battlefield. The +2 strength that you get from Avatar of Storm lets you qualify for the expanded criticals.
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Feb 18, 2016 23:21
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The charisma hit isn't bad if you're going the lyander wind rider paragon path, since you get the con mod to damage and +1 lightning/thunder attacks with Storm Aspect. Also, Divine Channeler, thanks. Edit: This changes everything. Mecha Gojira fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Feb 19, 2016 |
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Feb 19, 2016 00:40
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If you're using an accurate staff of the queen, it's not a big deal. Plus, the hit is only at epic, where your enemies should be granting combat advantage a large portion of the time anyway.
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Feb 19, 2016 00:45
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berenzen posted:Avatar of storm gives +2 strength, +2 con, so as long as a player has 11 strength as a sorcerer, you get it without strength investment. And yeah, it requires divine channeler, which means low-int for the sorcerer. 11 strength, 13 con, 14 dex, Int 8, Wis 13, Cha 16, grab religion through a background, take divine channeler to grab one of the chaladin CD, grab storm sacrifice. It's feat heavy, so try to convince your DM to just let you grab the feat. But AoS is the best storm sorcerer Epic Destiny in the game, It's a CHA hit, so you'll end up with 26 charisma in the end, but you'll be hitting for +70-80 modifiers on your damage for an encounter. It's amazingly fun, and you end up clearing out massive swaths of the battlefield. The +2 strength that you get from Avatar of Storm lets you qualify for the expanded criticals. Yeah, it's a huge number of hoops to jump through for a very strong payoff.
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Feb 19, 2016 01:02
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edit: Wrong Thread
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Feb 19, 2016 18:00
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In "flat what", I found out tonight that when messing around with the offline character builder, CBLoader, and some houserule PART files my group whipped up to implement some houserules in the builder (the relevant one being extra feat slots at certain odd levels to take noncombat feats like skill related stuff or Ritual Casting): That if I by accident put Novice Power or any other multiclassing power swap feat in these slots, save the character, close out the builder, and reload it sometime later, it will somehow fail to load with a "Character Load Error", remove the class of the character in question entirely from the builder lists until you reload the builder, and set any new characters you build to roughly LV 180 (going by half level bonus) until you reload it. I spent entirely too long tracking this down to the precise thing causing it. EDIT: Yeah, this is no way intended operation of the builder, I just was amused by the sheer weird result of this combination. gourdcaptain fucked around with this message at 09:50 on Feb 21, 2016 |
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Feb 21, 2016 09:30
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So I've been building a Tempest Fighter MC Ranger at L15 and was wondering if I'm going too balls-deep into anti-push territory. It's a common effect but this might make it suddenly not happen. Either way, between Mark of Passage, Pass Forward, Spring Step, Roll With It and Mark of Passage, am I working too hard to counter the easiest method of unstickifying a defender of "push it and prone it"? I've basically got two goals for this defender and I still have a week to tweak it: 1) Be able to chase people around like crazy, and 2) wield a lot of swords (IE dual-wielding, but constantly swapping swords or otherwise getting a million swings a round would also be acceptable).
Unknown Quantity fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 03:04
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If you're worried about pushing there's also Moradin's Blessing of Iron which reduces pushes by 2 and lets you OA any enemies who pull you adjacent. And at level 15 you should consider the Dust Storm Assault fighter daily, which is one of the best stances in the entire game since it gives you the ability to shift your speed and then prone an enemy who attacks or moves adjacent to an ally within three squares. This boosts your defender range significantly and also lets you have fun with double punishments.
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Feb 22, 2016 03:13
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Unknown Quantity posted:So I've been building a Tempest Fighter MC Ranger at L15 and was wondering if I'm going too balls-deep into anti-push territory. It's a common effect but this might make it suddenly not happen. Either way, between Mark of Passage, Pass Forward, Spring Step, Roll With It and Mark of Passage, am I working too hard to counter the easiest method of unstickifying a defender of "push it and prone it"? I've basically got two goals for this defender and I still have a week to tweak it: 1) Be able to chase people around like crazy, and 2) wield a lot of swords (IE dual-wielding, but constantly swapping swords or otherwise getting a million swings a round would also be acceptable). Or you could just Be A Dwarf. Reduced forced movement and save vs prone. I wouldn't bother with more than Acrobat's Boots. I guess Spring Step and Pass it Forward are fine too. Don't see the point in Roll With It, and Mark of Passage only applies to shifts/teleports from powers. If you're really dedicated to juggling, hold a Staff of the Traveller +1 and a Mithrendain Steel Weapon +2 to turn 1-square shifts into 3-square teleports. Can go farther with more resources towards it. I will note that juggling doesn't work very well without Inherent Bonuses. If you don't have Inherent Bonuses I would recommend not focusing too hard on juggling and just go for a lot of attacks. Since you've given up your MC to Ranger (hope you have Adept/Novice Power) and therefore can't snag an Arcane Familiar - Disembodied Hand, you're restricted to Master at Arms, Quick Draw, Battle Harness, and Weapon Master's Strike. Your minor actions will be pretty taxed with stowing your poo poo, or else you'll leave a million knives on the floor everywhere you go. For a fighter a Master's Blade is good to have, and then add in whatever else you want to juggle. I'm guess you have most of the good powers but just in case, for level 15 here are my picks: A-W: Dual Strike, Weapon Master's Strike E: Rain of Blows, Come and Get It, Bash and Pummel D: Rain of Steel, Dancing Defense/Dervish's Challenge, Dust Storm Assault And then steal something from Ranger I guess. Not familiar with Ranger.
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Feb 22, 2016 05:25
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You can flavor it as multiple swords, but mechanically just stick with the two. Since you're MC'ing into Ranger, just go ahead and pick up the one that lets you wield versatile weapons off-handed, pick up bastard swords (or just stick with longswords), grab Bladedancer Paragon Path, and forget about it. Or you can take my previous advice of Drow Long Knives, Shock Trooper PP, Deft Hurler fighting style to go with Cleave. Shock Trooper has a nice shifty stance at level 12. Or Blade Dancer PP and Bastard Swords and just forget about it. Mecha Gojira fucked around with this message at 07:12 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 07:09
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I mean I said dual-wielding was alright too and was fine with doing a different class, but right now the full build was STR/DEX Blade Dancer, light blades, tons of shifts and tons of swings. I'll just go to the CharOP thread and post the current full build later today. Anyway, i don't really care so much about stickiness as being able to punish someone effectively regardless of how far they go and getting a ton of on-turn and off-turn attacks.
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Feb 22, 2016 12:52
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I liberally use Masterplan in my game, and I've recently heard it through the grapevine that one of my players isn't entirely happy with everything happening on a screen as opposed to on the table, with tiles and miniatures and everything. We play at his place and they have some very nice tiles and miniatures around, so I can't blame him, but the rest of the players are fine with it and it's in all likelihood gonna end up a situation where he just has to continue sucking it up. On the other hand, I want to at least be able to say, well, I considered all the options. (Yeah the guy should talk to me directly and I'm sure he will next time we meet in person, this is preparation as much as anything else  )My take on it is: I need a combat tracker to run this game to the extent that if I don't have one, there simply isn't going to be a game. So I'm using Masterplan, period. Now, that's on my end; but I also need to make sure that my list of creatures matches up with what the players see and do, in order that damage and effects be applied to the correct goblin out of four identical ones. And, well, anything that isn't Masterplan's built-in association between initiative list entries and tokens on the battle map is introducing a potential source of errors. If I don't use the map, I have to remember which of the goblin minis on the table is #3 on the list, if I do, I have to match positions of my Masterplan tokens every time someone moves a mini. I mean, we used to do it mapless-with-minis, and I got monsters mixed up all the time. And then there's practical concerns. The table is always full of food. The table is also too big for everyone to conveniently reach the tiles area and move their guy around, so they have to tell me where they want to go anyway, and now there's not even a coordinate system. It takes time to set the dungeon tiles up just right. It takes time to pick out miniatures because how do you have 20 villagers and not a single minotaur what do we use instead. Their little weapons get tangled up in each other and I managed to break one already that way. Someone puts down a zone, the fight grinds to a halt because now we have to lift everyone up, put down a paper template, put everyone back where they were, and now you don't see the tiles anymore. So in short I don't really see much of a way to meet this dude halfway or even a tenth of the way. Which kind of sucks!
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Feb 22, 2016 15:02
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My Lovely Horse posted:I liberally use Masterplan in my game, and I've recently heard it through the grapevine that one of my players isn't entirely happy with everything happening on a screen as opposed to on the table, with tiles and miniatures and everything. We play at his place and they have some very nice tiles and miniatures around, so I can't blame him, but the rest of the players are fine with it and it's in all likelihood gonna end up a situation where he just has to continue sucking it up. On the other hand, I want to at least be able to say, well, I considered all the options. Using minis and a map is super fun, especially if you have your players draw said map according to your specifications. My table uses master plan, but we combine that with Lego figs for the characters and the Monster-vault tokens, and we draw our map as a team on some giant grid paper. It's way more interactive, especially since the players get to be the ones moving their pieces around. You should try it out, because your objections don't really seem like real problems.
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Feb 22, 2016 15:30
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Unknown Quantity posted:I mean I said dual-wielding was alright too and was fine with doing a different class, but right now the full build was STR/DEX Blade Dancer, light blades, tons of shifts and tons of swings. I'll just go to the CharOP thread and post the current full build later today. Anyway, i don't really care so much about stickiness as being able to punish someone effectively regardless of how far they go and getting a ton of on-turn and off-turn attacks. That's more like a Swordmage tbh. They're the only Defender class that have functional long-range punishment.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:15
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thespaceinvader posted:That's more like a Swordmage tbh. They're the only Defender class that have functional long-range punishment. I was considering making the swordmage but ENworld is down. Where's the other mirror again? Otherwise I'm just building an Assault Swordmage off of my best judgement.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:18
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Unknown Quantity posted:I was considering making the swordmage but ENworld is down. Where's the other mirror again? Otherwise I'm just building an Assault Swordmage off of my best judgement. Assault Swordmages stink HTH. Their punishment being a reaction rather than an interrupt makes it weedy. Shielding Swordmages are where it's at. They get all the best interrupt encounter powers and a solid punishment to boot. Nd they're no slouches on damage either if you build them right though don't ask me how I don't remember.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:30
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thespaceinvader posted:Assault Swordmages stink HTH. Their punishment being a reaction rather than an interrupt makes it weedy. Playing a Shielding Swordmage in a PBP game involves creating a boolean logic tree to finish out all of your posts. Having one of them *and* a Dishearten Psion means that your team is basically invincible.
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Feb 22, 2016 16:50
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Pfox posted:Using minis and a map is super fun, especially if you have your players draw said map according to your specifications. Part of it is that I like to design my maps around the enemies present pretty tightly with some key distances counted out and obstacles placed just so and stuff like that. It's one thing to say "okay guys, build me the king's throne room" and another to say "okay guys, build me an 8x10 throne room with a 4-wide corridor leading in at the long side, centered, with difficult terrain here and here, thrones are there..." I dunno, any other system that's how I'd do it, just when I spend time designing a map that's just right, at the table during playtime is not the right time to put that design into practice for the first time.
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Feb 22, 2016 17:50
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My Lovely Horse posted:Most of them are just little things adding up (although some are from my players as well, so...). The big one for me is the additional step between map on table - stuff in Masterplan. Back when we did it that way it was a regular occurrence for me to lose track of which of the human miniatures was "Town Guard #3" in MP; or when we used Monster Vault tokens, I'd lose track of whether any given of the identical tokens were "Town Guard" or "Crossbowman", and I'm looking for ideas to handle that because I've tried "just keep it in your head" and it didn't work. Cause I agree, having minis and a map is fun and engaging but it doesn't let me run the game as well as just using MP for everything does. Numbered tokens sound like they'd be a pretty straightforward way to address your issues. As far as designing the map goes, I've done both 'draw a map as it was designed in my head', and 'provide a rough sketch and let the players fill in the details.' Having done it the second way, I don't think that I'd go back to the first. Our experience has been that fights are more interesting, because the players are more invested.
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Feb 22, 2016 18:20
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My Lovely Horse posted:Most of them are just little things adding up (although some are from my players as well, so...). The big one for me is the additional step between map on table - stuff in Masterplan. Back when we did it that way it was a regular occurrence for me to lose track of which of the human miniatures was "Town Guard #3" in MP; or when we used Monster Vault tokens, I'd lose track of whether any given of the identical tokens were "Town Guard" or "Crossbowman", and I'm looking for ideas to handle that because I've tried "just keep it in your head" and it didn't work. Cause I agree, having minis and a map is fun and engaging but it doesn't let me run the game as well as just using MP for everything does. Numbered tokens would help with keeping track of people in the tracker, and if you're using minis I've seen people use 1mm d6 set into a base of blu-tack. You stick it to the base of the model and that way everyone can tell which number is where. If you're using Masterplan, do you have a TV screen or something you can put the maps up on behind you? Maybe put some measurement marks so people don't have to count squares but can still copy the map to the battlemat while you do what you need to start the encounter?
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Feb 22, 2016 18:36
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bbcisdabomb posted:If you're using Masterplan, do you have a TV screen or something you can put the maps up on behind you? Maybe put some measurement marks so people don't have to count squares but can still copy the map to the battlemat while you do what you need to start the encounter? Okay, that's a workable idea in the book, in case the rest of the group ends up agreeing with him... something worth trying for a session or two, at least. e: I don't even think they will. They've gotten far too used to seeing who has effects on them, or who's bloodied, or who has only a small sliver of HP left, without having to ask me every time. But who knows. My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 19:35 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 19:33
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My Lovely Horse posted:Yeah, we use a second screen. That's an idea, actually - I could make my maps in advance in just simple black and white and put in separation lines and numbers to indicate what tiles to use. Have them give me a list so I can set it up such that the map can always be built with the available tiles (they do have a ton). Or actually I could just print the build plans out so we don't have to hook up the display just for that; printing the maps actual size is kind of unwieldy, but a small version on regular paper, sure. Additional effect: I'd spend like 1/10 of the prep time on maps if I just put down walls and don't bother with neat graphics. I really like neat graphics though. If you're using the DnD maptiles, you can always make them in either the online Dungeon Tile Mapper or the downloadable Dungeon Tiles Mapper 2.0 and show those on your screen. You can even put your own tiles into the 2.0 one to make it even cooler (then share it). e. To give information to the players I use the webpage from DnD4eCM. It's a nice little initiative tracker with room for effects on the side. I usually have the monster's health hidden but IIRC there's an option to unhide it. I don't think it does health bars, though it does show bloodied. bbcisdabomb fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 21:18
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It's a shame there's only one carrion crawler token in the Monster Vault. The encounter I made yesterday with two of the level 5 skirmishers and the level 7 soldier was fun as hell and reminds me why I love combat in this game. Throw in a few monsters of appropriate level with interesting abilities, and your party will panic for a round before they rally and win. And what more can you ask for from an encounter as a DM? Other thoughts: punish your minion popping controller with orc minions. Admittedly the ones who actually got punished for it yesterday were the party's Striker and defender, but hey! It's about taxing party resources and keeping things interesting.
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Feb 22, 2016 21:55
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thespaceinvader posted:That's more like a Swordmage tbh. They're the only Defender class that have functional long-range punishment. Paladins do too. Don't even need an interrupt/reaction. Granted, you're not going to be able to mark/sanction at range (beyond some close burst-kinda powers), but you can punish at range. Edit: dragonborn paladins with hurl breath and whatever feat allows sanctioning with breath are an exception. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 22:50 on Feb 22, 2016 |
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Feb 22, 2016 22:48
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If you pick up a ranged implement power through hybrid bard or warlock or from being a half-elf you can maintain Divine Challenge from a distance and have fun there as well. Otherwise it's just using the sanctions and movement well, but Strength Paladins do have a swordbeam sanction encounter that can be used at range.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:02
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If you're going charisma paladin, divine challenge isn't as important to maintain since by level 13 you should have like at least three multi-target encounter power burst sanctions. Persistent Challenge feat in Paragon then just makes it easier to keep the Challenge up once an encounter without engaging as well.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:07
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Dick Burglar posted:Paladins do too. Don't even need an interrupt/reaction. Granted, you're not going to be able to mark/sanction at range (beyond some close burst-kinda powers), but you can punish at range. Entirely valid point. My bad. Hell, Paladins can punish when they're not even in play; there's a whole build designed around stacking as many sanctions and attack penalties on as many enemies as possible then voluntarily removing yourself from play whilst your god punishes your foes for doing... basically anything... which is hilarious.
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Feb 22, 2016 23:20
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Okay since it was brought up in another thread and I just never had much contact with 4e games. How common was the whole refusing to use at will powers and instead just using plain attacks in 4e games? Was that just a thing that occurred when it was new and if so how often did people come across it?
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Feb 23, 2016 02:44
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kingcom posted:Okay since it was brought up in another thread and I just never had much contact with 4e games. How common was the whole refusing to use at will powers and instead just using plain attacks in 4e games? Was that just a thing that occurred when it was new and if so how often did people come across it? I ran across it like... once in person? The person eventually quit to go play a Pathfinder game because it gave him more options or something (which was kind of hilarious). I've had issues in my Strike campaign with players forgetting about powers at first, but they grew out of it and used the powers when it was pointed out.
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Feb 23, 2016 03:06
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Mecha Gojira posted:If you're going charisma paladin, divine challenge isn't as important to maintain since by level 13 you should have like at least three multi-target encounter power burst sanctions. Persistent Challenge feat in Paragon then just makes it easier to keep the Challenge up once an encounter without engaging as well. Optimized paladin is very simple, play Charisma and take powers that cause mass sanction, find a way to make your defenses ridiculous.
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Feb 23, 2016 05:04
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:Optimized paladin is very simple, play Charisma and take powers that cause mass sanction, find a way to make your defenses ridiculous. Alternatively, Half-Orc and the feat that lets you use strength instead of charisma for DC/DS. Carry the biggest sword you can find and crush your enemies with your sick strength-based weapon powers. Straladins have some really intense Divine Sanction powers, they just can't get the most out of them without either being Baladins or Half-Orcs. Mecha Gojira fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Feb 23, 2016 |
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Feb 23, 2016 05:10
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Mecha Gojira posted:Alternatively, Half-Orc and the feat that lets you use strength instead of charisma for DC/DS. Carry the biggest sword you can find and crush your enemies with your sick strength-based weapon powers. Straladins have some really intense Divine Sanction powers, they just can't get the most out of them without either being Baladins or Half-Orcs. Or having a DM who goes "No, that's stupid" and giving you strength on your divine sanction anyways.
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Feb 23, 2016 07:13
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My Lovely Horse posted:Most of them are just little things adding up (although some are from my players as well, so...). The big one for me is the additional step between map on table - stuff in Masterplan. Back when we did it that way it was a regular occurrence for me to lose track of which of the human miniatures was "Town Guard #3" in MP; or when we used Monster Vault tokens, I'd lose track of whether any given of the identical tokens were "Town Guard" or "Crossbowman", and I'm looking for ideas to handle that because I've tried "just keep it in your head" and it didn't work. Cause I agree, having minis and a map is fun and engaging but it doesn't let me run the game as well as just using MP for everything does. By a 100 pack of multicolored plastic pawn, draw directly on them with Dry Erase Markers.
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Feb 23, 2016 08:53
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Now that you mention it, we did used to have this bag of multicolored wood cubes. Think they might have been blank dice. And actually, that's a thought as well: buy some dice of different colors, turn a different number to the top for each monster of one type. That could even be cool for color-coding - soldiers are always blue, artilleries are always yellow, and so on. (And actually, that in turn is something I should probably do with my tokens if we continue with Masterplan.)
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Feb 23, 2016 09:05
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Wow, so Adventure 12 of Zeitgeist just got released. We're only on Adventure 8, but I can't wait to get to this one. I think I may need to tweak one of the major bosses, though....
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Feb 23, 2016 19:20
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dwarf74 posted:Wow, so Adventure 12 of Zeitgeist just got released. We talking the big climatic fight? That is a really well written adventure though - one of the things these guys are doing is talking about the themes they are trying for and that makes it a lot easier to run.
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Feb 24, 2016 03:26
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